Torm51

Yes you can. It's an ability so you will have an opportunity to take it every odd level.

Unfortunately yes. Although I'm thinking of leaving Int at 10, raising con to 16-18 and putting my last fee points in Might. Some people on this forum say a full time tank is useless but that's not my experience. I just can't figure out how to make a melee dpser who isn't a rogue (rogues have escapes) stand up right in combat. They just get smoked on PoTD. I am by no means the Paladin expert though I would like to be enlightened on how to make a good tank whose capable offensively. Maybe I'm not smart enough lol but it seems to me that the Devs really intended offense or defense. Not both

It was not. Because you could stack deflection by taking Per and Res. You cannot do so anymore and all the mobs have perception so accuracy has gone up across the board while Def has lowered. Meaning in melee you will get hit more often. You need more Con. Also something ignored is your Fort Defense. As a Paladin Will is easy to get because of Res and Righteous Soul and reflex can be covered by Weapon and Shield style. Taking a good CON will raise your weakest defense which gets attacked a lot.

Hey Eddie, First the TANK question: I love the Paladin as you can see from my Sig and played 2.0 Beta heavily and have been playing the live build as a main character Paladin. My main character is mostly a tank. What I can tell you since the loss in deflection (Per gives accuracy instead of Def) you will get hit a good amount more So high resolve is even more important. You also get more bang for your buck with Con now as you stated. As a tank getting hit more= you want more Con. That has definitely been my experience. Currently my Base stats are: 10 Might, 14 Con, 15 Int, 19 Resolve (everything else 10 I don't like stat dumping). I am debating to forgo my auras hitting the back line and leave Int at 10 (not dump it) in order to get more Con but maybe that's cause I am only level 7 and not end game. You are also receiving a nerf in your Reflex defense because as a defense type of character you are not taking Dex or Per. On Perception and being a damage dealer: The downside of Paladin in PoE is it suffers from what a Paladin suffers from in D and D (BG games etc) in they have of a lot of Attributes they can make good use of. (BG you HAD to have a minimum of 13 Wisdom and 17 Char so your STR and DEX suffered). A Paladin will never be a heavy hitter (hes not suppose to be) but in order to deal relevant damage and do your job you have to spread yourself too thin. You would need Good Might, Per, Dex ,and Con to stay alive in Melee (PoTD especially Plate guys with low Con get shredded in Melee)..that would mean leaving out Int which will lessen your support (your actua l job) abilities like auras and buff/Lay on Hands nerf..Also if you do not take Dex you will hit slowly in Plate and need Resolve so you don't get interrupted...you see what I am getting at? Its tough an offtank/damage dealer paladin definitely could use high Per as its a class with crap accuracy BUT it just has too many other things to do. I think with the point spread the way it is now the way to go on Paladin is either Tank (even with the new AI you need one IMHO), or Durable off tank damage dealer. You are not going to get the full dps experience.

I have been tweaking my high defense Paladin and I pretty much play him like I am pvping players. I start the fight with no shield to trick the AI so it thinks I have way lower deflection then I really have. I have armor and high End so a few hits is no big deal. I also have Zealous Charge on if anything un sticks I disengage (no big deal I have high defense and more disengage Defense with Charge) and pretty much pin ball around engagement stuff while my aura helps my ranged Kite if they have to. Its actually fun and a very interactive way of Playing a Paladin who is known to be not very...well interactive. Also with a heavy one hander like a Mace, Warhammer or Saber going onehanded style gives you some sick disengagement attacks that will make the AI pay. If I am taking too much heat I just switch to weapon and shield and am a full tank again. maybe I'm wierd, but I like controling my main char, and my favorite class is a cipher. One of the changes I was looking forward to was they I wouldn't have to obsessively micro all my party for them to not suck. Tanks literally lack a point if you can't hold aggro through unless.... you stop being as tanky. I mean in BG2, fighter type classes were all sorts of worthless without a mage just buffing them. But you could go "lul" and take all magic using guys, self buff, and stomp everything anyways. PoE doesn't even have long lasting buffs, so... from what I'm getting is that tank classes are just worthless now. Make them dps. Not quite. Enemies just don't completely ignore the tank. If you get them to stick they will for the most part but its the overspill you get on PoTD that will ignore you and a lot of times that's like 4 baddies cause of the numbers on that difficulty. You still need characters that are durable in PoTD. I made Eder this time in Plate dpsing and he does very well but If I don't cc for him and he gets mobbed and wrecked very quickly. The defensive based characters do not. I think its worth having at least one. trick the AI into attack him and go to town on them.

I have been tweaking my high defense Paladin and I pretty much play him like I am pvping players. I start the fight with no shield to trick the AI so it thinks I have way lower deflection then I really have. I have armor and high End so a few hits is no big deal. I also have Zealous Charge on if anything un sticks I disengage (no big deal I have high defense and more disengage Defense with Charge) and pretty much pin ball around engagement stuff while my aura helps my ranged Kite if they have to. Its actually fun and a very interactive way of Playing a Paladin who is known to be not very...well interactive. Also with a heavy one hander like a Mace, Warhammer or Saber going onehanded style gives you some sick disengagement attacks that will make the AI pay. If I am taking too much heat I just switch to weapon and shield and am a full tank again.

yep. Its how fast they spot you. So if you are going to backstab be quick about it. Or now with 2.0 stay stealthed let them come to your tanks and instantly Gib a dude with your Saber/Stiletto/Blunderbuss/massive 2hander.

It is level 6 to 7 content (or scaled higher for higher level chars) that is BUILD INTO the main game so a level 1 char will start in the same place. Its not a separate game where a new char would start in the area. As for the high level character that has beat the game you need a save BEFORE the final boss fight. I am pretty sure if that you go into the area where the last boss is there is no return. If that is your only save you will have to do it on another character.

and that means ill be at work. I am a sad bear!

So midnight eastern...anything?

Perception no longer gives Def but Accuracy. So across he board their is less deflection.

So when White March comes out how do I switch from beta 2.0 to regular? Do I just unclick the "Participate in Beta" in properties? This was the first beta patch I tried.

I freakin hate dumping (not hating on it at all just not my style but I get it totally) but ya I think I am going to leave Int at 10.

I am finding it increasingly difficult as a Paladin to fit in Intellect. I really want my aura to be party wide but it seems in this game and the small range of the auras that Melee Paladins will have a tough time fitting Int in. Much easier for a gunadin or a ranged Paladin to take Int. Currently my Tanks Int is high but I had to leave Might at 10 because of it. So offensively hes not very good. Which is why I created the topic above. Maybe I should just forget about the aura/buff side and keep them at their base of 10. Melee Paladins have too many other stats to worry about. Paladin useful Attributes. Might Per Int Res Con (as of 2.0 you get hit more so more hp is good but its debatable). Its too many so you can either be inept offensively and stay alive or get your but kicked in Melee because you don't have enough deflection. Ive been testing out 2handed Plate wearing DPS and without some defensive talents you get mashed (PoTD). PS so far my party has been successful I am just pointing out some things about tanks and Paladins. I mean its good even as an offensively inept tank I know the game and choke points so I win.

Like solo meaning? High Con? That's all I have seen from solo play throughs...but I haven't seen that much of them.

Sounds good. This is my main tank at level 5. Obviously he leaves much to be desired offensively but hes only level 5 so how would you guys make him a bit more viable in the damage department. I am trying not to dump stats...I just cant seem to find the points for PER and accuracy. and I figure he is a tank PER is probably not the stat I am looking for. Mig 10 Con 14 (extra hp for the nerf in deflection maybe I don't need it Also I need some type of Fort Defense) Dex 10 Per 10 Int 15 (minimum for auras. with my boots and int items I can reach my backline with Auras) Res 18 (best I can do on a Godlike..my favorite race thematically and ascetically). Talents. 1. Lay on Hands (Flames of Devotion on a low accuracy character even with the +20 accuracy buff is putrid early game..doesn't get good until you get good accuracy late game or have a offensively build Paladin early game IMO). 2. Weapon and Shield style 3. Zealous Focus. 4. Cautious Attack 5. Zealous Charge (repositioning the battlefield rocks I love it). That's it so far. Maybe I should dump some Res for Might? If you really want to do some type of ok DPS you need to penetrate DR. Hatchets and quick weapons suck at it unless you have the armor pen talent...should I take this talent and switch between modals for when I need offense and defense? This game makes it hard for you to play both Defense and Offense (as it should.).

Well that leads me to the above topic I made. If that is ever the case tanks will go away unless you give them something that gives them a massive damage boost when they are either attacking with disengagement or not being attacked.

ya even though a fully defensive tanks disengagement attacks are crap lol thanks to DR.

So my experience has been that a lot of the times the AI is better then in other games as there is no taunt and in melee they WILL melee the softer dps target. Archers will shoot at the backline not your tank. Now yes that's why I use choke points so the AI has no choice but to attack my defensive characters but I think its a crutch for making a defensive character useful...maybe I am wrong. When you do make a mistake though and they get in your back line the tanks become not very useful (well my Paladin is cause I turn on Zealous Charge and reposition the battlefield) but still it isn't preferable lol. So I usually make these tanks that are just beasts defensively but are not worth a lick offensively. I was thinking why not just have the tank be good offensively and an OK tank. The bosses that really matter will pretty much own even a well speced tank now that Deflection has been nerfed and they must be cced...if its even possible I know there are immunities now. What are your opinions?

How very constructive... On topic, I'd like to know that too, especially since I can't access the patch yet with GoG. Weren't there people in other threads talking about enemies rushing besides your frontline to hit your guys in the back? Yes. My experience is that unless you can bottleneck the fight in a natural chokepoint, your tanks can only hold as much as they have engagement slots. The AI is also pretty proactive about funneling everyone through any little gap in your line it finds. In addition, archers won't attack your tanks, at all, they just tunnel down your soft targets. I believe the AI prioritizes based on DR but I may be mistaken on that. I mean that hasn't really changed anything for me. Pre 2.0 AI would still run past my tanks and archers wouldn't attack my tanks unless it was the only thing they could reach. I have been playing 2.0 and there have been times when an enemy passes my tanks but I engage it and it will stick to my tank even though its back is to my second line and it can turn around and hit the softees. I have seen more spell variation and AOE spells being thrown at my if my group is stacked. So the AI is better. Aggro type management is still a mystery to me. I just engage dudes and they seem to stick but I never have any + engagement talents and it works fine.

So far I have been playing the beta patch and Engaging enemies doesn't really seem to be any better. What you guys think actually makes you keep aggro? Anyone else have a different experience?

Ya we were just splitting hairs. That is the bottom line.

Appreciate it. If for some odd reason I do its no biggy starting over. Great game!

Well maybe a Bleak Walker with The Black Path as he can Frighten enemies on kill. Thing is to build a great Paladin tank you will not be killing much of anything.

Yep unless Shielding Touch works on yourself still after 2.0...then a Shield bearer for a minimum of 5 seconds will have 8 more deflection (If you take the talent)...could matter..could not...like I said Marginally better.