konst3d

Fighters are able to do an average amount of damage all day long. Mages are able to do MASSIVE AOE damage for few minutes before resting. The same is with tanking - there are some spells like mirror image, stone\iron skin, energy immunity, etc... that could make your mage almost immortal for some short period of time, fighters on the other hand could survive some lesser beating but all day long... Balance. P.S. But yeah, most of the IE games allow you to rest almost anywhere (just quick save before) so mages quickly become more powerful then any melee character.

Human fighter - I love tanks, I love humans.

I love such challenges!

Plunging fire on a target 5-10 meters far... this would look... special.

Composite bows allow to add *some* of your character STR bonus to damage, not STR bonus x1.5 like melee two-handed does. So the ranged damage output will always be lower this way. This also means you should invest into STR to have some benefits from this weapon. The problem is ranged to-hit depends on DEX and moving some points to STR means you sacrifice to-hit for damage, while melee character could concentrate on one ability and rise both to-hit and damage. I've heard that in some D&D redactions PBS added significant damage bonus, but my opinion is that this was a wrong decision, this way ranged weapon really become too powerful. I love how this feat works in NWN1\2 - +1 to attack in melee and no attacks of opportunity. There are some powerful arrows that allow you to enhance your damage output but this could be balanced with its price and availability. Well, in general I feel that the right way of balancing ranged\melee is to make melee hit harder while keeping ranged more versatile (freedom of target selection, attacking from the safe distance, different ammo selection). And don't forget you could combine 1-handed melee weapon with the shield for better protection. Edit: Feats\Talents could also help to keep the things balanced - add some interesting combat abilities like DnD's manyshot\rapid shot\AA class goodies\etc. Just in case ranged will become to boring without the melee's damage.

I think that your deflection with the weapon more depends on your training and personal preferences then on weapon type. And *IF* something like this will be in the game I would prefer the Drakensang way - leveling your character select what to rise, offensive mastery or defensive, or both. BTW, there were some weapons with defense bonuses\penalties. But most of the weapons didn't provided any defense modifications. And once again, I'm not sure that PoE needs all these things. Just my opinion.

The idea itself is probably good. You are right, armed with the sword you have better chances to deflect incoming sword blow than with your bare hands. But this will complicate the things that is already complicated enough, on the other hand, I'm not sure if this will add something valuable to gameplay. Edit: Something like that I've seen in Drakensang: The Dark Eye, rising you weapon skills you could select where to add the points - offense or defense. However personally I never put them to defense line.

I love how DnD done with this issue - you apply your STR to to-hit & damage. With ranged you apply your DEX to to-hit, but not to damage. And there are some bows that allow you to apply some small amount of STR to damage. So in the end, melee characters do more damage, ranged do less damage but from the safe distance and more flexible in general - you can attack these casters hiding behind the enemy fighters, interrupt his spells, etc... Done. Why to fix things that weren't broken?

Deleted, wrong topic, sorry.

In the first levels you never had that problem when you started BG1 ? never ? really ? I mean it takes a bit of time before obtaining a decent spellbook or even to get to level 3. Invulnerable in the first levels maybe for a veteran gamer but i would never put a low level mage in the front line, my fighters are here for that so my mage only have to cast protection spells against other spells and projectiles. "Also I don't see anything wrong with enemies trying to bypass the front line to get to the squishies." I am talking about a goblin who i don't know how succeed to pass between 3 fighters to get to your mage without any retaliation. First playthrough that problem was a huge pain in my back. I admit it's a common tactic but it infuriated me to see a goblin (BG1 no goblin i know but at least i spell it right) walk casually between my fighters, no damage although my fighters were targeting him (and yes i use right weapons) and get to my wizard. Now with the engagement mechanics it will not be possible and you will have the feeling of controlling the battlefield. Enemies will need to knock you back, to have special abilities to break through your line of fighters without retaliations. In american football, think about a grandpa who walk casually with the ball in his hand, "break"/bypass/walk through a front-line of defense of pro-players and score a touch-down... If trash mobs break my formation or bypass it, i want it to be because of poor tactics from me or good AI from them. With PoE the grandpa need to be younger faster and to use a special abilities to knock back, evade, flank etc the front-line defender to score a touch down. I agree plenty to the idea of adding more options to the fighters (i will learn to multi-quote) and rogue. But still i like the progress from the old DnD rule-set. It is more efficient ? I don't know. Perfect ? no without a doubt. Perfectible ? surely. Maybe it has flaws, but it felt nice and fresh to me. I like the general directions of this system. First of all, the 'weak caster' problem exists on some few first levels. Reaching level 2-3 mages start getting access to really good protection spells. As for me it's 3-4 hours of gameplay in average. Also this problem is mostly exists in BG1 and IWD1, in later games caster levels much faster, and very fast they become more powerful and tanky than most of the melee classes. This means that 'bodyguard-and-nothing-else' fighter could become really boring in a few hours of gameplay. At the moment PoE fighters looks exactly 'bodyguard-and-nothing-else' as for me. Hope I'm wrong. Well, to be honest I don't know how powerful and tanky will be PoE casters and for how long they will require fighter-bodyguards, but I'm afraid they also will not be that fighter-dependent. After all you could use other classes for an 'occasional tanking', classes that could do not only this. Now about engaging\disengaging mechanic (if I spelled this right). In IE games you was always able to block narrow passages with your characters, usually fighters\clerics\druids and other tanks. Also starting with D&D 3 (NWN1\2) edition there is an "Attacks of Opportunity" thing and as for me, "Engaging\Disengaging" is just a limited variation of this feature (not sure this will be free attacks against people trying to cast\use items\ranged weapon in a melee range). Just my personal opinion, but class that could not be customized - is boring class. There will be a party of 6 (?) characters in PoE, so you have an opportunity to test all of the PoE class in a one walkthrough. And now, if you have already tried all of them and there is no option to create a main hero fighter that will differ with your NPC fighter - what is the point to play the game once again with fighter or any other class you have tried as NPC during your first walkthrough (except some optional plot\quest elements)?

Any *right* wizard or sorcerer should have mage armor, stone skin, blur, protection from arrows, mirror image and a lot of other things that allow him to stay in the center of trash mobs group and killing them being almost invulnerable.

PoE is not yet a masterpiece in any kind. BG's mechanic was good at 1998, but D&D was significantly improved since then. You can't create a masterpiece giving a player less freedom and character development options then in far 1998.

It seems a bit ridiculous to me, to compare PoE role system with one used in the game released at the end of the 1998, more then 15 years ago. Don't get me wrong, the old things is not necessary bad or worse, and I really love old and good IE engine games (right now playing BG:EE) but I believe new games should be better and use more advanced mechanic. It's called "progress".

Back to accuracy. Well, I believe the problem is with the term itself. It's used a bit wrong in PoE. What 'accuracy' basically is? It's an ability to deal a precise strike. Yeah if you have enough MIG to handle your weapon and enough PER to see the target then it's possibly completely covered by your DEX. But the problem is - accuracy itself is not enough to hit the real target, a monster or a knight with sword and board that does not want you to hit him! He will try to dodge your hit, to block it with the sword or shield, and finally - you have to pierce its armor (deflection) to hit... So you could be the most accurate man in the universe, but if you are unable to overcome his blocking\dodging ability or if your rapier is unable to pierce his plate - you will do no hit. On the other hand, you could be a half-giant with very limited DEX but with a lot of MIG and big and ugly 6-feet-long club and just smash this blocking-master with his weapon, armor and shield over the ground. You don't need too many DEX or PER to hit the human-size target in melee range. So the accuracy itself does not reflect the fact you should not only do a precise strike to hit, you also have to overcome the target defense to make your attack hit the target! This way the accuracy and DEX is just a part of some more complex ability to deal a damage with a weapon. Let's name it AF (attack factor). Now let's see what else could affect it. Strength (MIG) - you can hit so hard that any block with weapon or shield will be unable to stop your weapon from penetrating the armor, especially if it's some heavy weapon like great axe or sword or even heavy hammer. There is still a chance to dodge the hit, but unlikely a knight with the shield and full plate will be able to do so. Perception (PER) - you direct your arrows into some vulnerable zones of the armor. Dexterity (DEX) - you attack very fast constantly changing the direction of the hits so your opponent just fails his blocking attempts. So finally we come back to the idea to use different attributes to calculate your ability to hit the things. You could do it with MIG and heavy 2handed weapons, you could do it with DEX and light weapons that allow you to attack fast, you can do it with PER and ranged weapons. Very low DEX could introduce some attack penalty for every weapon, but you really shouldn't have it very high to be able to hit the man-size target in melee range. Monk as a wizard-slayer only\mostly? It's highly debatable I would say, but let's not start this here. Well, possibly mid\low level WIS monk will not be so bad as 20+. But anyway, haven't seen any pure WIS monk myself. By the way, healing is a cross-class skill for monks, so you will not be any effective with this anyway. Actually there are only 2 WIS based monk skills (3.5 ed. at least): Spot and Listen. And 4 DEX based: Tumble, Parry, Move Silently, Hide.

2Lephys I'm mostly agreed with everything you have said about accuracy, dexterity, might and perception. The only thing that confuses me a bit is that how complicated thing become. You have a heavy crossbow let's say. It is heavy enough to have some MIG requirements, so you should calc an accuracy penalty (or even a bonus - not sure) based on the difference with your actual MIG. Now at the battlefield you have to calc how far your target is and calculate your accuracy penalty\bonus coming from PER. And also you have to combine these all with your base DEX-provided accuracy. And also, this way, DEX become a 'must have' for any melee or ranged character - you basically can’t hit anybody without good DEX and there are nothing to replace it with. But well, possibly it's the most realistic approach out there, finally 'accuracy' is very complicated thing and it depends on many different things starting with your body condition and ending with battlefield illumination (day\night) and weather (rain\snow\mist\sand storm).