Meshugger

Gee, I wonder why. Is crypto-fascism and transphobia a turnoff with Finnish girls? What the **** is the matter with you? Do you also scold mothers while burying their children that they should stop praying because there is no God? Or do you dance around cripples who are in wheelchairs asking them to race you? But hey, if my failings in relationships makes you happy with glee, then you're welcome.

Oh

Ok, we're letting it slide that there are terrorists who operate on an international level in the name of islam and there's also the slippery slope of quite a lot of people symphatizing with them to a certain degree, like a lot are thinking that they are believing the right thing, but unsure on the level of violence. But scrap that, that's not important here. We can also be assured that no religion makes people more violent than the other, but rather some religions works like a magnet to those that like kill people in quite barbaric ways. But scratch that, that's not important here. There is also the consensus that no human is a blanket slate, because then everyone could be made equally smart, tought and practice the same ethical framework, and change behaviour on a whim. We have different biological predispositions which is a product of those before us, but it is still undecided to what degree they affect personal and group behaviour. It has to be, otherwise there wouldn't exist different kinds of cultures. But scratch that, that's not important here. We are social creatures whose brains are constantly optimizing its neural pathways in order to have room to create new ones. Meaning that our brains are making shortcuts to different memories in order for the individual to handle new data based on sensory input as fast as possible. This means for example that when you burn yourself on the stove as a kid, that memory is quickly invoked when getting close to the stove the next time. Now apply this principle to other experiences as a child growing into an adult. Feeling weird the first time ever seeing an asian? It's just your brain not giving any info to work upon and thus basic instincts take over to look after yourself, so you are put on your guard. Now this encounter will be a new memory which will be subconsiously invoked the next time you meet another asian. "First impressions, lasts" as they say. Well, lets extrapolate further: what is the collective consciousness on middle eastern muslims since, well 1973? Not that good really, they really messed up on the PR-department. For some nations, their entire history is filled with war with middle eastern muslims. "So?! what the **** are you even rambling about Meshugger?" might be the first response, but hear me out, you got this far. Lets apply the same principle again, we have grown up, experienced and talked to different people and we have created a 'set', meaning an image of what 'us' is. We have our morlocks that we deal with, but they are our morlocks and we know have to deal with them, kinda. But based on the same principle we have created atleast and image on how to deal with them. Meet the middle eastern muslims. They are not 'us'. They behave differently, look differently and seem to think differently. They are simply 'them' and when a few of their morlocks attack on what we percieve as 'us', our preconcieved images and experiences kick in, thanks to their horrible PR, and here we are now, with reactions such as these. It's simply a very basic human reaction. "`You stupid twerp! What about people who do not see any 'us' or different kinds of 'us' then?" They simply are able think better abstractivly and not letting the shortcuts cloud their judgement, or they simply are slightly braindamaged and have little to no base survival instinct. Point being, those people are in a minority. "What can be done then?". Simple, it's a slow process. Generation of generation must create good PR in order for new experiences to be shared and new contextes created. Thus, even if the natural instinct of being on your guard when meeting the unknown is still there, there's still the fallback on your peers and adults assuring you that there's nothing to be afraid of since they have only have had good experiences with the other 'set'. "This has to be the most idiotic thing that i have ever read. Why are you writing all this junk? and you're probably are racist too!". It's alright, i forgive you. My mind usually wanders into the weirdest parts of knowledge when i break up with a girl. It's been 3 relationships in 4 months now and it takes very little time for mind to wander off into all kinds of musings. "SHUT UP! SHUT UP ALREADY!" Don't worry, as soon as i fall in love again my mind is focused on.....other things. Cheerio!

Didn't some Christian shoot up an abortion clinic less than a week ago? It was a tranny that wanted to be adressed as "she", i dunno about her religion. What? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/us/robert-dear-planned-parenthood-shooting.html Huh, must've thought of someone else. My bad.

Didn't some Christian shoot up an abortion clinic less than a week ago? It was a tranny that wanted to be adressed as "she", i dunno about her religion.

Once you put on your romantic lenses and see them as warrior poets just expressing themselves with AK-47's and the next thing you know it, they will become the next Bonnie & Clyde. Oh, another rumor has it that they were equipped with GoPro's.

You gotta hand it to him finding a wife willing to go on a shooting spree with him. Now that's dedication to marriage.

damn that ham, i would ban it http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343309/At-TWENTY-people-gunned-California-mass-shooting-police-search-three-suspects.html#ixzz3tEG8cW8C Giving ham to muslims is no laughing matter. They might explode any in minute.

It's like that Dave Chapelle joke.

Rumors have that those three had already planned a bigger attack but things got a weird turn when Farooq'a wife got a ham on her baby-shover and the final nails in the coffin was when he accidently ate a bacon chive at the christmas party and decided to shoot them all there instead. So there you have it, triggering ham sandwiches.

Okay, okay. Maybe not a halfwit then, but definately immature.

Of course. Its the typical BVC non-answer but I lost interest in discussing it with him so I just let it drop. Oh my....look at you. You play the standard " BCV never answers " , you are condescending and then rude When I first read this I was annoyed by your rudeness and I was going to respond accordingly...but I went to the shop and my irritation has gone Its my fault because clearly you think I'm stupid and in the past I have gone along with your sarcastic comments and acted like I wasn't aware. So lets set the record straight, I'm not stupid so please don't assume this again and insult me because I will respond next time and there is no need for a debate like this to get personal I explained to you the facts about why its unlikely Turkey would be funding ISIS. You ignored this and insisted I should consider the photo evidence. The photo evidence if it was real do you not think your country who is actively involved in this conflict would have considered.....do you not think that the USA who has been involved in the ME and has effective and reliable information from sources like Israel and Saudi Arabia would be aware if Turkey was the reason ISIS was able to sustain itself ? So once again you make the assumption that everyone is stupid ....except for the Russians But I didn't feel like pointing the obvious out to you and trying to " win" the argument so I thought we could wait a few days when this story will be confirmed....which is why I said lets wait and see But even this wasn't good enough for you and you chose to insult me ....oh well Once this story is debunked I suppose an apology from you will be too much to ask? So when an american is disagreeing with you it is personal, you're insulted and you have to demand an apology? Like an errand boy who has failed to live up to his delivery? and everyone else simply does not know any better? Oh Bruce, you're such a bigot, please update your algorithm. If this forum is an euphemism of U.N., then you're Israel. No .....I see how that sounded...but yes now that I am thinking about it all the people are outside the USA, maybe the Americans are just nicer people? But therse nothing wrong with apologizing, you should learn how to do it. It shows maturity Nah, apologising because you care about the other person's wellbeing is a good thing. Being unable to handle sardonic sarcasm and demanding an apology of such is the sign of a weak character who has to resort to the other showing submission to satisfy ones ego. One has to have the wisdom and maturity to tell the two apart, and a halfwit like you Bruce, have neither. Update your autoexec.bat.

Of course. Its the typical BVC non-answer but I lost interest in discussing it with him so I just let it drop. Oh my....look at you. You play the standard " BCV never answers " , you are condescending and then rude When I first read this I was annoyed by your rudeness and I was going to respond accordingly...but I went to the shop and my irritation has gone Its my fault because clearly you think I'm stupid and in the past I have gone along with your sarcastic comments and acted like I wasn't aware. So lets set the record straight, I'm not stupid so please don't assume this again and insult me because I will respond next time and there is no need for a debate like this to get personal I explained to you the facts about why its unlikely Turkey would be funding ISIS. You ignored this and insisted I should consider the photo evidence. The photo evidence if it was real do you not think your country who is actively involved in this conflict would have considered.....do you not think that the USA who has been involved in the ME and has effective and reliable information from sources like Israel and Saudi Arabia would be aware if Turkey was the reason ISIS was able to sustain itself ? So once again you make the assumption that everyone is stupid ....except for the Russians But I didn't feel like pointing the obvious out to you and trying to " win" the argument so I thought we could wait a few days when this story will be confirmed....which is why I said lets wait and see But even this wasn't good enough for you and you chose to insult me ....oh well Once this story is debunked I suppose an apology from you will be too much to ask? So when an american is disagreeing with you it is personal, you're insulted and you have to demand an apology? Like an errand boy who has failed to live up to his delivery? and everyone else simply does not know any better? Oh Bruce, you're such a bigot, please update your algorithm. If this forum is an euphemism of U.N., then you're Israel.

If we Finns weren't able to defend ourselves against some sissy Swedes, it's better that we forget about it in shame. Truth to be told, we couldn't even read our own language, but the great merciful Swede called Mikael Agricola translated the Bible to us out of pity. Not to mention the Swede Johan Snellman who made the Finnish equal in terms of Swedish as language in the senate. Then the Swede Runeberg wrote the words of our national anthem and the Swede Sibelius conducted the beautiful hymn Finlandia. We could've almost have lost in WWII, but thanks to great strategies of the Swede Mannerheim as General of the armies we were led to victory. Nowadays we can always be proud of our great education system, producing great innovators in technology, such as the Swede Linus Torvalds, the founder of Linux. We are our own worst enemies and all other countries fear us from it. You forget Elias Lönnrot who collected our mythologies and stories to Kalevala and Alexis Stenvall (better know as Alexis Kivi) who wrote first novel in Finnish language. But all this Swedes that you speak are Finns saying something else is just pure heresy and Swedish conspiracy to undermine Finns. I was merciful and i didn't want to make the butthurt even worse than what it already is. Gustaw Wasa was actually known by his peers as 'Kustavi Vaasa'. He could sharp a knife like no other and his moonshine was of legends, but the Swedes do not want to talk about that.

Bruce is just protecting his stock options at TPIC (http://www.tpic.com.tr/en/) Pay him no heed.

If we Finns weren't able to defend ourselves against some sissy Swedes, it's better that we forget about it in shame. Truth to be told, we couldn't even read our own language, but the great merciful Swede called Mikael Agricola translated the Bible to us out of pity. Not to mention the Swede Johan Snellman who made the Finnish equal in terms of Swedish as language in the senate. Then the Swede Runeberg wrote the words of our national anthem and the Swede Sibelius conducted the beautiful hymn Finlandia. We could've almost have lost in WWII, but thanks to great strategies of the Swede Mannerheim as General of the armies we were led to victory. Nowadays we can always be proud of our great education system, producing great innovators in technology, such as the Swede Linus Torvalds, the founder of Linux. We are our own worst enemies and all other countries fear us from it.

Qistina I want to ask you something important I am really enjoying our chats but there are some people who are still not sure you a real person and I have my doubts still as you seem to repeat questions almost knowing for some strange reason people will react Do you use Skype ? I would like to quickly Skype you with the video option to confirm you who say you are...we can use the PM function to exchange Skype addresses I'm sorry to ask you this but the reality is there are people who troll me and I waste time debating points If you dont use Skype let me know what chat client you use but it must allow video Sorry Qistina but can you respond to this? This thread is sure going places.

"Pay back" is phrase used when you're insinuating retribution with violence, which is very seldom used here on the continent since we have history of guys impaling 40 000 people just to prove a point. Your colorful language is greatly frown upon. I suggest trying to reach out by appealing to our common humanity instead.

Hmmmm http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-02/hungary-s-orban-says-germany-struck-secret-turkey-refugee-deal uhmmmm

Is Argentina west or is it east? I mean it is east of Malaysia, but west of Europe. But they hate the British, does that mean that they are east instead? What a conundrum. They seem like sour bunch though, typically eastern.

Because we have yellow fever, you silly sexy thing.

https://archive.is/NLyAd https://archive.is/YP2A0

Can you like, put away the strawman for just a second? Nobody has argued that Christian influence has "no bearing" on the European heritage. In fact, we have asserted the opposite, but also that it is not the only thing that defines European culture. Whatever the hell that is, anyway. Am I also "arguing for the sake of arguing" now? I was responding to alumni about the christian heritage, not to you. Who's we? What are you talking about arguing for the sake of arguing, did the quote system break? Regarding Middle Eastern/African men being accused of "more serious kinds of rape", lolwut? Marital rape is rape. From this I suspect that somebody doesn't understand what the concept of rape is. I'll give you a hint: it's you. If there were only 6,500 reported rapes in Sweden in 2014, how do you know that there were 5 times more actual occurrences? How do you know that reported rapes in Finland amount to 25% of all occurrences? Because Amnesty International estimates it's actually 2-10%. Do you have any more current estimates? And please, elaborate on how Swedish men are "often regarded" as effeminate. By whom, your lawyer friend too? What is this "public image" of Swedish males? And most importantly, what the **** does that **** have to do with anything? There is a difference in rape because they are classified as such by law and thus sentenced as such as well. What my lawyer friend stated was that finnish men are usually convicted of rape within marriages, were there it usually boils down to the wife not being in the mood and the drunken husband would have none of it, which in turn leaves very little to no physical evidence and the case is mostly based on testimony by the accused and accuser. In those cases, finnish men are overrepresented. However, when i refer to "serious kinds of rape", it is the legal term used here, as it leaves with longer sentences. This is when we are talking about surprise gangrapes ending with the victim bleading from both holes, clothes ripped apart, the victim being hospitalized and suffering such physical or mental trauma that they have difficulty taking the stand in court....here it is that middle eastern and african men are clearly overrepresented compared to the local population. If you want to argue against that, you have to argue against the whole legal system and practice of justice, which is really something worth a thread of it's own. As for the numbers, here is the source of the swedish rapes: http://www.hs.fi/paivanlehti/14022015/a1423815249949 Translated: Finnish rapes: http://www.hs.fi/paivanlehti/14022015/a1423815351567 The graph says the following about the unreported rapes: "I didn't report being raped because": 46% - It was a private matter 31% - I didn't see it as a serious matter 24% - I thought that it wasn't a matter for the police 17% - I didn't think that the police were capable of doing anything 8% - I didn't think that the police were even interested in it in the first place Rough translation: Finally as for the public image of swedish men, my mistake if you haven't noticed. But at least here in the nordic countries they have always been seen as a bunch of sissies, a bit gay and unmanly. It is pretty much part of the public collective consciousness and people laugh about it. So when people hear about a huge amount of rapes, it pretty much shatters that old conception. Just to illustrate this, the following examples are from the biggest comedy show in Finland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw3e64sosEg

Western culture is just as much a product of ancient Greek and Enlightenment traditions, I'm really not seeing why do you want to single out christianity as a uniquely relevant part of these cultural pillars. Because claiming that the christian ethics, the concept of redemption and ethos, not to mention architecture and art having no bearing on the European heritage is wishful thinking at best. To be frank, both have similar impact. The Greeko-Roman culutre was inspiration for the humanism in 15 century, at the same time we cannot forget about our own gains, which were made during the medieval ages and later progressed alongside of humanism. Then you get the protestants and their ethos of work in religious pursuit. Europe is a really mix of interesting ideas that had roots in various concepts, but through that it made its own identity. THe problem now is, that we have watered down our cultural roots and we are becoming shapless mix, which does not really know as a whole what is the core value around which we will move forward. Other distinctive cultures do not have this issue. Muslims are driven by Islam, Chinese are driven by taoism, but moreso by the mandarinizm and imperial heritage, plus they see themsleves as a whole community instead of set of individuals (Islam is similar in this regard). So yeah... good luck Well, Augustine and Aquinas adopted some aristotelean and platoan methods for their theological work, i would say that the lines of thought are a bit intertwined. But hey, Merkel now says that Islam is essential to the German identity and spirit, so that must be more true......meh.

As for rapes and immigrants. While i have a friend who is a defence lawyer who claims that middle eastern and african men are 1) highly overrepresented as clients accused for committing rape compared to their size of the local population, 2) are more likely to be accused of more serious kinds of rape (locals usually are accused of rape within marriage or partnership, committed at home) and 3) seem to have the most ridiculous reasons for explaining themselves ("All finnish women are whores, what wrong did i do? Whores should not be respected", "She gave me a kiss, that means she wanted sex. Only loose women kiss", "She didn't have male companionship, therefore it was ok to rape", etc) 4) Sometimes fails to understand the concept of what rape is. But that is just one guy telling another guy about his clients, but it still can cloud my judgement. But there's also the weird thing when comparing Sweden and Finland. Swedish men are often regarded as effeminate, metrosexual, nice and tolerant, but at the same time there was 6500 rapes in Sweden in 2014 (which is only about 1/5 of the reported ones, leaving to more than 30 000 rapes in total), compared to Finland who had 1000 (with 1/4 being reported, making it 4000 in total). What is more remarkable is that the amount of rapes have doubled in Finland within the last 10 years. But anyhow, the high amount of rape collides with the public image of what swedish males are, so something is amiss. Adding the general unrest in Malmö, Gothenburg and the uprising in Husby, Stockholm, I do not think that it is coincidence that this trend is partly the reason why the anti-immigrant party in Sweden is polling at 20% at the moment. Personally, i think that if you import a lot of people from cultures where women have to be fully clothed, because otherwise the weak male cannot control themselves and assault them, or that a women without a male escort is seen as open season, or that women by law are less valuable than men, and finally in a case of rape, need 4-5 males witnesses admitting that a rape took place, you will have some problems. Approach the problems rationally and take action accordingly instead of swiping it under the rug is the only solution. But the counter-demonstration by asylum seekers condemning the rapists in Kempele shows that it is possible for change when it comes from the immigrant-community themselves, even if it is baby-steps.