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2-handed Paladin - RP and optimization


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#1
TomReneth

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I'm going to be running a roleplay based Paladin on Hard, which I know isn't that unforgiving, with a 2-handed weapon and was looking for some feedback on the build idea I am going for. The general idea behind this build is not to min/max the character, but still useful to get feedback on general usefulness.

 

Attributes base stats

Might = 14

Constitution = 10

Dexterity = 16

Perception = 14

Intelligence = 10 (8?)

Resolve = 14 (16?)

 

Justifications:

Might - My character is not meant to be the strongest there is, but the +12% damage does get a decent benefit from 2-handed weapons regardless.

Dex & Per - Increased attack speed and accuracy, as well as a decent buff to reflex saves.

Resolve - I've picked resolve instead of int because it generally works as a charisma stat in this game, not because it is necessarily better than int in any way.

 

First few levels

Level 1: Flames of Devotion

Level 2: Weapon Focus

Level 3: Zealous Focus

Level 4: Vulnerable Attack

Level 5: Lay on Hands or Sworn Enemy

Level 6: Two-Handed Style

 

One of the things that I figured could let me skip on might a bit is the interaction between Dexterity and Vulnerable Attack. VA seems to work better with fast attacks, though I still want to use 2-handed weapons over dual wielding as a personal preference.



#2
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I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).

Edited by Boeroer, 13 September 2017 - 05:11 AM.

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#3
FlintlockJazz

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Which Paladin Order were you thinking of taking?



#4
Torm51

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I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).

St. Rumbalt was a Priest man! but ya its kind of close :p

 

I don't like low INT on a Paladin in POE  because of Sacred Immolation and offensive type buffs like Liberating Exhortation (even if you are not a Darcozzi it is the best Exhoration IMO because ya its not AOE but it lasts WAY longer then the Priest AOE version even with a 10 INT.  The priest AOE version even with sky high INT last like 7 seconds).  It clears really crappy long lasting debuffs like blind that affect your ACC.   Also your auras.

 

Agree with everything Beor said.  I love Mabecs Morningstar but its super RNG (its cool for RP its a Paladin weapon in its history) so you would have to get the Rose Salthollow which is meh and only one damage type.  For two handed Paladins Great Swords imo are the best option.  Two damage types and no RNG for the best weapon.

 

I don't think you need DEX imo but maybe you are going for ALL offense ( would leave it at 10).  I just see even a 2handed Paladin as an alpha striker/sturdy front liner.  Your WILL be a DPSer with Sacred Immolation but DEX is irrelevant with that ability.  You could also make up for attack speed with the plate that has the Frenzy spellbind and durganizing. or cross class a bit and get the lesser Frenzy ability.

 

PS

I like your Uther the Lightbringer forum pic! Go Paladins!


Edited by Torm51, 13 September 2017 - 06:24 AM.

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#5
Lampros

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I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).

 

I notice a lot of melee DPS builds do not have Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Why is this? Wouldn't it, for instance, be superior to a lot of other alternative melee DPS skills that seem to involve tradeoffs? Sure, it is more conditional, but afflictions are not difficult to get.

 

 

 

I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).


 

Agree with everything Beor said.  I love Mabecs Morningstar but its super RNG (its cool for RP its a Paladin weapon in its history) so you would have to get the Rose Salthollow which is meh and only one damage type.  For two handed Paladins Great Swords imo are the best option.  Two damage types and no RNG for the best weapon.

 

 

Is the morningstar from Azurro better than the 2H swords mentioned here? I am going by one playthrough sample, but Azzuro sold me basically everything twice over in my experience, so it's not that difficult to get stuff from him. Besides, can't you almost ensure it happening by constantly resting and forcing more turns and thus getting more RNG chance?



#6
mosspit

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I notice a lot of melee DPS builds do not have Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Why is this? Wouldn't it, for instance, be superior to a lot of other alternative melee DPS skills that seem to involve tradeoffs? Sure, it is more conditional, but afflictions are not difficult to get.

It is recommended for dps. Which builds are you referring to? Note that some builds do not have it as cross-class skills was introduced later in the game's lifecycle (WM1's time? I honestly can't remember)
 

Is the morningstar from Azurro better than the 2H swords mentioned here? I am going by one playthrough sample, but Azzuro sold me basically everything twice over in my experience, so it's not that difficult to get stuff from him. Besides, can't you almost ensure it happening by constantly resting and forcing more turns and thus getting more RNG chance?


Torm does ToI or Triple Crown playthroughs. So no luxury in reloading for the right sale.
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#7
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I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).

 

I notice a lot of melee DPS builds do not have Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Why is this? Wouldn't it, for instance, be superior to a lot of other alternative melee DPS skills that seem to involve tradeoffs? Sure, it is more conditional, but afflictions are not difficult to get.

 

 

 

I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).


 

Agree with everything Beor said.  I love Mabecs Morningstar but its super RNG (its cool for RP its a Paladin weapon in its history) so you would have to get the Rose Salthollow which is meh and only one damage type.  For two handed Paladins Great Swords imo are the best option.  Two damage types and no RNG for the best weapon.

 

 

Is the morningstar from Azurro better than the 2H swords mentioned here? I am going by one playthrough sample, but Azzuro sold me basically everything twice over in my experience, so it's not that difficult to get stuff from him. Besides, can't you almost ensure it happening by constantly resting and forcing more turns and thus getting more RNG chance?

 

I would not say better as its only one damage type.  Have a plan for a second weapon as the Knight focus you do not have another two hander for a second damage type.  That being said you could take the Fire sword gloves (its a universal weapon focus) and you would be good to go.  The stun on crit is awesome.  Pretty sure stun is a better status effect then prone BUT St. Rumbalt has two built in damage types and annihilation.  With Sworn Enemy and FoD you will be critting a lot.


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#8
Torm51

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I notice a lot of melee DPS builds do not have Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Why is this? Wouldn't it, for instance, be superior to a lot of other alternative melee DPS skills that seem to involve tradeoffs? Sure, it is more conditional, but afflictions are not difficult to get.

It is recommended for dps. Which builds are you referring to? Note that some builds do not have it as cross-class skills was introduced later in the game's lifecycle (WM1's time? I honestly can't remember)
 

Is the morningstar from Azurro better than the 2H swords mentioned here? I am going by one playthrough sample, but Azzuro sold me basically everything twice over in my experience, so it's not that difficult to get stuff from him. Besides, can't you almost ensure it happening by constantly resting and forcing more turns and thus getting more RNG chance?


Torm does ToI or Triple Crown playthroughs. So no luxury in reloading for the right sale.

 

Yes I am so dumb it even astounds me. 


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#9
Lampros

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I notice a lot of melee DPS builds do not have Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Why is this? Wouldn't it, for instance, be superior to a lot of other alternative melee DPS skills that seem to involve tradeoffs? Sure, it is more conditional, but afflictions are not difficult to get.

It is recommended for dps. Which builds are you referring to? Note that some builds do not have it as cross-class skills was introduced later in the game's lifecycle (WM1's time? I honestly can't remember)
 

Is the morningstar from Azurro better than the 2H swords mentioned here? I am going by one playthrough sample, but Azzuro sold me basically everything twice over in my experience, so it's not that difficult to get stuff from him. Besides, can't you almost ensure it happening by constantly resting and forcing more turns and thus getting more RNG chance?


Torm does ToI or Triple Crown playthroughs. So no luxury in reloading for the right sale.

 

 

Ah, ok. I didn't realize it was introduced post-DLC. But it seemed to me that most melee builds have stuff like Savage Attack or Vulnerable Attack (or the elemental buffs) but not Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Would you say Apprentice's Sneak Attack is preferable to Savage or Vulnerable Attacks, if only one can be chosen?

 

 

 

 

I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).

 

I notice a lot of melee DPS builds do not have Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Why is this? Wouldn't it, for instance, be superior to a lot of other alternative melee DPS skills that seem to involve tradeoffs? Sure, it is more conditional, but afflictions are not difficult to get.

 

 

 

I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).


 

Agree with everything Beor said.  I love Mabecs Morningstar but its super RNG (its cool for RP its a Paladin weapon in its history) so you would have to get the Rose Salthollow which is meh and only one damage type.  For two handed Paladins Great Swords imo are the best option.  Two damage types and no RNG for the best weapon.

 

 

Is the morningstar from Azurro better than the 2H swords mentioned here? I am going by one playthrough sample, but Azzuro sold me basically everything twice over in my experience, so it's not that difficult to get stuff from him. Besides, can't you almost ensure it happening by constantly resting and forcing more turns and thus getting more RNG chance?

 

I would not say better as its only one damage type.  Have a plan for a second weapon as the Knight focus you do not have another two hander for a second damage type.  That being said you could take the Fire sword gloves (its a universal weapon focus) and you would be good to go.  The stun on crit is awesome.  Pretty sure stun is a better status effect then prone BUT St. Rumbalt has two built in damage types and annihilation.  With Sworn Enemy and FoD you will be critting a lot.

 

 

Fire sword gloves? Not sure what they are - let me Google.



#10
Boeroer

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Mabec's Morning Star is the second best morning star because it has stun on crit. That is great, but besides that it's pretty meh. The best one is Acuan Giamas, but it comes so late that it's of no avail to plan builds around it. The greatest joke is the morning star "Daybreak" which has a nice enchantment but comes shortly before the latest fight in the game (from where there's no turning back). No idea why they placed that nice weapon there. Cruelty maybe... ;) 


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#11
mosspit

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Ah, ok. I didn't realize it was introduced post-DLC. But it seemed to me that most melee builds have stuff like Savage Attack or Vulnerable Attack (or the elemental buffs) but not Apprentice's Sneak Attack. Would you say Apprentice's Sneak Attack is preferable to Savage or Vulnerable Attacks, if only one can be chosen?


I personally always took Apprentice Sneak Attack as an added dps skill in a party setup. At least always in favor of Savage Attack. Vulnerable Attacks is build dependent. It has more mileage on weapons that are fast hitting and low dmg.
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#12
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Forgemaster's Gloves.THey summon Firebrand 3/rest. It's very good until you get durgan steel.


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#13
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Forgemaster's Gloves.THey summon Firebrand 3/rest. It's very good until you get durgan steel.

 

Ah, ok. Hmmm, I shied away from summoned weapons throughout, because I did not understand how they worked in terms of mechanic. I didn't even choose them as spells on the Wizard. So they just replace your equipped weapons while they are active? If yes, are they usually worthwhile - good enough to replace existing weapons? I suppose it's a case-by-case judgment, but what is their power level in general?



#14
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Yes, they just replace what you havein your hands at that time. They are usually very powerful compared to the normal weapons you can get when you get access to the summoned ones. For example Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff has higher base damage than a normal staff, drains endurance and comes exceptional which is supergood at level 1. 

 

Firebrand has huge base damage, a bit ACC bonus and huge damage bonus, is annihilating and does burn damage. It also works with Scion of Flame (gets +20% base damage). It is the hardest hitting melee weapon if you leave Citzal's Spirit Lance (also summoned weapon) aside. But you can't enchant summoned weapons and thus they lose most ot their appeal once you get access to durgan steel, dragon scales and such. Citzal's Spirit Lance is always great because it's like turning your wizard into a barbarian with a badass pike - and it comes superb.

 

Firebrand is the only summoned weapon that can be used by all classes because it's bound to those gloves. 


Edited by Boeroer, 13 September 2017 - 06:59 AM.

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#15
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Oh wait - I forgot Rot Skulls - a great summoned weapon of the druid which is very powerful (comes quite late) and can also be used by all classes because it's bound to "Father's Teeth", a necklace that only has a few charges of Rot Skulls which don't recharge. But it comes a lot earlier tha the original druid's spell and it also gives you +18 fortitude which is neat (the necklace, not Rot Skulls).


Edited by Boeroer, 13 September 2017 - 07:22 AM.

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#16
TomReneth

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I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).

On Vulnerable Attack, how come? As far as I can tell/remember, most encounters where DPS matters typically have more than 5 armor as well as decent defenses otherwise, so it seems to me that I'll get full value of the armor penetration when I'm not fighting trash mobs that a party made up of only story companions will dispatch with ease anyway. Armor penetration also seems to be a good boost to graze damage. And unless this speed calculator ( https://naijaro.gith...eed-calculator/ ) is severely out of date, it seems to be about 8-12% attack speed decrease, not 20%. Now, maybe I'm wrong about all of this, but if I am, I'd like to know where and how.

 

 

 

I would skip Vulnerable Attack. With a two hander it will lower your dps in a lot of cases - instead of boosting it.

If you like offense then I would take Intense Flames, put a burning lash on your weapon and also take Scion of Flame. This will boost your FoD bonus from 50% to 120% (against 0 DR). Scion of Flame is also good for your burning lash in general and for Sacred Immolation later on. For that you might want to have higher Intelligence though.

Savage Attack is not bad either: FoD gets +20 ACC and +1 ACC per level which makes the -5 from Savage Attack quite unimportant, especially if you also pick Sworn Enemy. And Zealous Focus will outweigh Savage Attack's ACC malus while auto-attacking.

Another good talents is Runner's Wounding Shot. It will give you an additional per-encounter ability and works very well with hard-hitting weapons.

I would suggest either Tidefall or Hours of St. Rumbalt (actually a paladin's weapon which might be nice from the role-playing-perpective).

St. Rumbalt was a Priest man! but ya its kind of close :p

 

I don't like low INT on a Paladin in POE  because of Sacred Immolation and offensive type buffs like Liberating Exhortation (even if you are not a Darcozzi it is the best Exhoration IMO because ya its not AOE but it lasts WAY longer then the Priest AOE version even with a 10 INT.  The priest AOE version even with sky high INT last like 7 seconds).  It clears really crappy long lasting debuffs like blind that affect your ACC.   Also your auras.

 

Agree with everything Beor said.  I love Mabecs Morningstar but its super RNG (its cool for RP its a Paladin weapon in its history) so you would have to get the Rose Salthollow which is meh and only one damage type.  For two handed Paladins Great Swords imo are the best option.  Two damage types and no RNG for the best weapon.

 

I don't think you need DEX imo but maybe you are going for ALL offense ( would leave it at 10).  I just see even a 2handed Paladin as an alpha striker/sturdy front liner.  Your WILL be a DPSer with Sacred Immolation but DEX is irrelevant with that ability.  You could also make up for attack speed with the plate that has the Frenzy spellbind and durganizing. or cross class a bit and get the lesser Frenzy ability.

 

PS

I like your Uther the Lightbringer forum pic! Go Paladins!

 

Other Paladin weapons include Justice (Raedric's sword), which has a unique Crushing Lash enchantment, making it a weapon capable of doing all 3 types of physical damage.

 

I was considering going the real oldschool Uther Lightbringer, as seen in the W2 manual, but decided against it :p


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#17
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Justice's crushing lash is inferior to a burning lash if you consider to take Scion of Flame (you should from a dps-perpective). Even without Scion of Flame it's no advantage to have a crushing lash instead of an elemental one. They work exactly the same.

But of course I would also use it until I get something better.

Vulnerable Attack: let's say it's a 10% speed loss. So if you attack 10 times without VA and 9 times with VA, then this one additional attack has to deal 45+ damage on average to make VA useless - if enemies' DR is at least 5. With FoD in the mix, a crit here and there, Two Handed Style, Savage Attack, good weapon enchantments, bit of MIG and a 30% burning lash this is common. Especially if using Tidefall. Even if that "average additional hit" would be lower and VA wouldn't lower your dps you will not gain a lot of damage for one talents point.

Great Swords usually make sure you don't do MIN damage most of the time.

Also, Vulnerable Attack doesn't work with lashes. That means that FoD and the lash on your weapon will get nothing from it.

With Scion of Flame instead you would get more bonus damage in nearly all cases.
Runner's Wounding Shot is better in this case, too. Let's say you hit for 50 damage, then it would add 46 raw damage on top (gets boosted by MIG if I'm not mistaken). The harder you hit the better it gets. Very nice once you have Durgan Steel and better weapon enchantments.

So my conclusion is that Vulnerable Attack is not worth it on a two handed paladin.

But others might see that differently of course.

Edited by Boeroer, 13 September 2017 - 07:41 PM.


#18
TomReneth

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Justice's crushing lash is inferior to a burning lash if you consider to take Scion of Flame (you should from a dps-perpective). Even without Scion of Flame it's no advantage to have a crushing lash instead of an elemental one. They work exactly the same.

But of course I would also use it until I get something better.

Vulnerable Attack: let's say it's a 10% speed loss. So if you attack 10 times without VA and 9 times with VA, then this one additional attack has to deal 45+ damage on average to make VA useless - if enemies' DR is at least 5. With FoD in the mix, a crit here and there, Two Handed Style, Savage Attack, good weapon enchantments, bit of MIG and a 30% burning lash this is common. Especially if using Tidefall. Even if that "average additional hit" would be lower and VA wouldn't lower your dps you will not gain a lot of damage for one talents point.

Great Swords usually make sure you don't do MIN damage most of the time.

Also, Vulnerable Attack doesn't work with lashes. That means that FoD and the lash on your weapon will get nothing from it.

With Scion of Flame instead you would get more bonus damage in nearly all cases.
Runner's Wounding Shot is better in this case, too. Let's say you hit for 50 damage, then it would add 46 raw damage on top (gets boosted by MIG if I'm not mistaken). The harder you hit the better it gets. Very nice once you have Durgan Steel and better weapon enchantments.

So my conclusion is that Vulnerable Attack is not worth it on a two handed paladin.

But others might see that differently of course.

I wasn't going to use Jusice, I just mentioned it as another Paladin weapon, since you guys brought it up ;)

 

From how you present it, it seems that VA has diminishing returns as accuracy and item power increases, which makes sense in my experience with it and penetrating shot doing the content available before Cad Nua, which seemed to be a substantial DPS increase at the time. Especially in Raedric's Hold, where there are a lot of armored enemies. I'll stick with VA for the time being, perhaps retrain once I get access to more powerful items.

 

Btw, decided to use the same attributes as Eder. Should make for an interesting playthrough.



#19
Boeroer

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Yes, if you want to retrain anyway that's a good approach. I was arguing from a no-retrain-perspective. :)

 

VA is also good if you are under 0 recovery (mathematically) and can squeeze in VA without speed loss. THen of course it's a no-brainer. It's also better/more benefical whenever you do multiple weaker hits passively or with one attack (Barb's Carnage and retaliation and so on).



#20
TomReneth

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Yes, if you want to retrain anyway that's a good approach. I was arguing from a no-retrain-perspective. :)

 

VA is also good if you are under 0 recovery (mathematically) and can squeeze in VA without speed loss. THen of course it's a no-brainer. It's also better/more benefical whenever you do multiple weaker hits passively or with one attack (Barb's Carnage and retaliation and so on).

Well, I also don't care about having the best possible party of character (sticking with story companions, only having an adventurer until I get a full party of them) and am more interested in making a character that "makes sense" accordoring to their backstory etc. I'm just interested in having a character that isn't laughably bad. If VA doesn't stop being good until the late-game, I might just stick with it and turn it on/off as I need it.

 

Of course, on another note, not having optimized characters does make the game a tad more difficult, which is nice. I don't play enough to give PotD much of a chance, Hard is usually enough for me to balance having fun and a challenge.






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