big mouth

[Gromnir]

so, a friend/acquaintance says they wants a gaming computer, but they don't wanna spend "too much." acquaintance rattles off some desktops they saw on-line that looked pretty keen. 'course Gromnir gets all know-it-all and suggests that building is better than buying something from dell or cyberpower or whatnot.

 

"really? what could you build for ~$800?"

 

...

 

*grumble*

 

the gentleman in question don't need a monitor, keyboard or mouse, so...

 

using http://pcpartpicker.com/ we gets following:

 

 

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor  ($109.99 @ Newegg) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($25.99 @ Mwave) 

Motherboard: Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($76.97 @ Outlet PC) 

Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($65.94 @ NCIX US) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($59.96 @ Outlet PC) 

Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card  ($209.99 @ Amazon) 

Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($49.99 @ Newegg) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply  ($49.99 @ Microcenter) 

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  ($16.98 @ Outlet PC) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($87.99 @ NCIX US) 

Total: $753.79

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-17 13:23 EDT-0400)

 

am in CA, so our "friend" is gonna need to pay tax on 'bout 50% ' of the above... will be right at $800. 

 

could probable use the included amd heatsink and save $26-- doubt this rig ever gets oc'd. is only $26 though and we not see where add that money elsewhere is gonna get real improvement. 

 

if somebody sees a problem or serious issue, let us know.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[samm]

I would spend slightly more for the mainboard and use the standard M5A97 R.2.0, because it has a heatsink on the power section. The FX heats the mainboard pretty well  I'd also upgrade the memory to DDR3 1866, may only be a few percentage points faster but your processor officially supports it and 1333 isn't noticably cheaper. Check the mainboard's official support list for guaranteed compatibility - I think the Ripjaws X do work with all the Asus boards though.

 

Other than that, I don't have any complaints.

 

Ok, Battlefield 4 Beta supposedly has a problem with the six cores (way slower even than four cores), but this is a bug.

 

 

No "go the Intel route" criers yet? I'm positively surprised

Edited October 17, 2013 by samm

[Gromnir]

I would spend slightly more for the mainboard and use the standard M5A97 R.2.0, because it has a heatsink on the power section. The FX heats the mainboard pretty well  I'd also upgrade the memory to DDR3 1866, may only be a few percentage points faster but your processor officially supports it and 1333 isn't noticably cheaper. Check the mainboard's official support list for guaranteed compatibility - I think the Ripjaws X do work with all the Asus boards though.

 

Other than that, I don't have any complaints.

 

Ok, Battlefield 4 Beta supposedly has a problem with the six cores (way slower even than four cores), but this is a bug.

 

 

No "go the Intel route" criers yet? I'm positively surprised

yeah, we were waffling regarding the ram. it is a $10-$20 difference to get the 1866. motherboard is actually another $20 if we upgrade from the LE. were figuring that the ram boost were almost imperceptible, but we didn't know that the cpu might be too hot. $30-40 isn't bothering Gromnir, but having met our friend's wife, we wouldn't wanna try and get more money for something she thinks is largely a waste o' cash already. am thinking he would rather see us go opposite direction and make cheaper. 

 

hmmm. decisions.

 

ty for input.

 

as for amd, we always go amd when we does a budget build.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps if motherboard cooling is enough that we could dump the cooler master, that would fit right into budget... but am never trusting the heatsinks that come from amd or intel.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Gromnir

[Humanoid]

Not sure if the AMD stock cooler for the FX series is the same as the one that shipped with my A10, but if so, it's not a sound I'd like to hear again. That said, the Coolermaster's stock fan is pretty rubbish too. Fortunately you can replace it with a standard 120mm fan of any brand, the usual value option being the Nexus fan.

 

The unfortunate aspect here is AMD's tardiness in getting away from the aging AM3 platform - it chews more power than it should, its feature set is falling behind (no USB3 for example), and no future upgrade path. The FM2 platform is more up to date, but for now lacks anything more powerful than APUs (or the Athlon CPUs harvested from them - the Athlon X4 760 is a nice budget option, but we're looking for something a tier above 'budget'). That said, it's interesting:

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Q2Xw
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Q2Xw/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Q2Xw/benchmarks/

CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 760K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($77.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Silverstone AR01 81.4 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($33.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus A88XM-A Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard  ($79.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston Blu Red Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($48.96 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk  ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($59.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card  ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($34.90 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply  ($59.00 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  ($16.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($87.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $778.77
 

 

 

My personal biases are obviously showing, there are some great deals out there, which makes me so envious of American prices. I mean I had a Define R4 case in that list at one point, $80 for that was a steal. And the G550 PSU I couldn't give up, so I didn't. Best option under $100 by a country mile. Probably biggest concern for me personally there is video card noise. Plonked in the cheapest 7950 there, the price was too good such that if noise was an issue, it'd be better value buying an Arctic Cooling for it anyway.

 

Not everyone shares my view that SSDs are essential, but if the task is selling this project to the guy's wife - well it's the one thing that could totally turn around the Wife Appreciation Factor.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Humanoid

[Gromnir]

"Memory: Kingston Blu Red Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory  ($48.96 @ NCIX US)"

 

is a misprint or glitch or something. we saw that price too, but when we checked link, ncix is outta stock and has been out for a week. also, next best price from any merchant is $86.  

 

am one of those guys that can't yet fully buy into a ssd hd for a budget machine. ultra-fast load times seem more like a luxury than an essential feature... and if the wife could appreciate such nerdling minutiae  we doubt our friend would be struggling to stay sub $800.

 

am liking the psu though, but as nice as it is, it increases our budget.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Humanoid]

No idea, never used that site before. But yeah, just sorted the list by price and picked the cheapest 8GB option.

 

I suppose SSDs are one of those things one is conditioned into. The broader appreciation factor is more down to responsiveness rather than load times as such - it makes the difference in feel between a shiny new toy and an old clunker. But yeah, dropping it is a straightforward enough change, and either pocket the savings or go back to the FX.

[Gromnir]

we likes http://pcpartpicker.com/, but a couple vendors play games with the format. they list price as $99.99+ or somesuch. the "+" never show on the filtre page, so you gets a surprise when you discover real prices at vendor page. tomshardware uses the site for their "best builds" competitions, but they add the provisio that only newegg and amazon is eligible sellers... 'cause o' wacky shenanigans with base prices and shipping charges other vendors infrequent utilize.  nevertheless, we find pcpartpicker to be an incredible useful site when starting a pc build project.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

I can understand only accepting prices from certain sellers. No idea how it is in the US, but I gave up using local price comparison sites because "bait and switch" was running rampant. Basically put up listings for dirt cheap stuff that you in reality don't carry, but hey, since you are here anyway, take a look at our other products.

[ManifestedISO]

SSD for the OS, definitely. Humanoid is right about the way it feels, like I mean night and day faster. Like dial-up and broadband faster. I swear games get sympathy speed, even though they're loaded on the slower HDD. 

 

I kinda think the 7950 is too much and a little hot for 1080p gaming, but two hundred bucks is a damn good price. Still, I'd save even more and get a 7870 or 7850 on super sale ... and drop the CPU cooler, and lower the power supply to 450 or 430, but stay at least bronze certified. I'm also convinced it's definitely worth getting 1600 RAM, over 1333. Every (most) review I see on Anand shows a big jump in performance between those two, but much less from 1600 to 1866.

 

I gotta say, there is only Newegg. Sniping the right part for the best price is fun and rewarding, but I only get that feeling from Newegg. Except for that tax thing, now.    

[Humanoid]

By pure coincidence I ended up buying two new SSDs today. Wasn't planning to bite so soon, but eh, $10 off each as long as I buy two in deal ending today, so why not. Samsung 840 EVO 250GB for $175AUD and a regular 840 120GB for $89AUD, that's cheaper than the cheapest prices listed on that part picker site, even if you take the exchange rate as 1:1. It isn't, so it works out even cheaper comparatively to me. And that's with 10% tax. So yeah, no brainer in the end.

 

The smaller drive will go in my planned NAS (if and when it goes ahead), and the EVO will probably be my Steam drive, as at the moment my Steam games are kind of split between my spindle drive and another SSD. Both the spindle drive (it's only 800GB) and that SSD are full, so I really should grab another of each, but the WD Red 4TB was only just released so I'll wait a bit to make sure there are no technical issues discovered with it. If I was lazy I'd use it as a system drive instead to replace my decrepit, near-four-year-old Indilinx SSD. Kind of sad, but it's now by far the weakest of the three that will be in my system.

 

I also really shouldn't think about it, but that 120GB G.Skill Falcon 2 Indilinx drive I bought in January 2010 for $400+. And now I've bought a 120GB drive for $89. It stings a bit, given I'd get change out of $400 buying a 500GB drive now, but no regrets, I wouldn't change things if I could go back.

 

 

EDIT: Don't let anyone tell you they aren't addictive. By my count I've now installed nine of them in various systems.

 

My desktop - 120GB G.Skill Falcon 2, 256GB Crucial m4, 250GB Samsung 840 EVO

Old laptop - 250GB Samsung 830

HTPC - 128GB Crucial m4

NAS - 120GB Samsung 120

Old desktop I revived - 60GB Corsair Force 3 (was an RMA)

Parents' PC (gift) - 120GB Intel 320

Sister's PC (gift) - 120GB Samsung 840

Edited October 18, 2013 by Humanoid

[Gromnir]

dunno.  have played games on a system with ssd and we ain't as overwhelmed as humanoid and mani... am hardly even whelmed.  the thing is, in 12, 8, or even 6 months, our friend is gonna look at a game and ask self, "can i play this on my machine." that which causes him concern won't be how much space is available on the ssd or is 6 gb/s transfer enough? bypassing ssd and getting a psu that allows some expansion and a good gpu is not seeming like a hard choice to make. 

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[AwesomeOcelot]

A good SSD will load a game 4 times faster than a top of the line HDD, but getting a SSD for games is a luxury. Getting a small 60-120GB SSD for the OS on a desktop is a no brainer, clears up bottlenecks, the massive random access improvement of a SSD makes things like night and day. If you're doubting getting a SSD, you simply haven't used a computer with one.

Edited October 18, 2013 by AwesomeOcelot

[Gromnir]

A good SSD will load a game 4 times faster than a top of the line HDD, but getting a SSD for games is a luxury. 

 

 

is a gaming computer.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ok... as between 2 builds... which is honest better for long-term gaming?

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Qpul

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Qpul/by_merchant/

Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1Qpul/benchmarks/

 

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor  ($119.99 @ Newegg) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($25.99 @ Mwave) 

Motherboard: MSI 970A-G43 ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($72.91 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($64.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Mushkin Chronos 240GB 2.5" Solid State Disk  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 

Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7870 XT 2GB Video Card  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 

Case: Cougar Evolution ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 

Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply  ($59.00 @ Newegg) 

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  ($16.98 @ Outlet PC) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($87.98 @ Outlet PC) 

Total: $787.81

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-18 19:24 EDT-0400)

 

or

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1QkE8

Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1QkE8/by_merchant/

Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1QkE8/benchmarks/

 

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor  ($109.99 @ Newegg) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($25.99 @ Mwave) 

Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($93.98 @ Outlet PC) 

Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  ($68.00 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($64.98 @ Outlet PC) 

Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7950 3GB Video Card  ($179.99 @ Newegg) 

Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($49.99 @ Newegg) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply  ($49.99 @ Microcenter) 

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  ($16.98 @ Outlet PC) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($87.98 @ Outlet PC) 

Total: $747.87

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-18 19:26 EDT-0400)

 

am serious leaning towards second, but if ssd fans convince us otherwise, we will go for first.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Gromnir

[AwesomeOcelot]

I meant that it's expensive to get a second SSD or large 256-512GB SSD to put games on. I've never heard of someone just playing games on a PC, even a "gaming" PC but if it's only ever used to game from the HDD then there's not much need for a SSD. A 60GB SSD for the OS is $55, for me the faster boot is probably worth that, Windows updates with rebooting also.

[AwesomeOcelot]

I haven't spent much time on it, but I wouldn't build a PC without a HDD, it would always have a SSD+HDD combo. Being able to play games at 60fps is more important than them loading 4-5 times faster. Obviously with a bigger budget getting a SSD for the games you play the most becomes very attractive, it's great to not have loading screens just a flash of a bar moving across.

 

AMD FX-6300

Stock Cooler (save $25.99)

Asus M5A97 R2.0(I prefer to use ASRock or Asus)

Vengeance LP 8GB

Kingston SSDNow V300 Series 60GB (budget SSD for $55)

Seagate 500GB ST500DM002 ($53 so $12 cheaper, 500GB should be enough for a game rotation)

XFX Double D HD 7950 3GB ($180, take the 3GB because that's probably what the ports from the consoles will use)

Corsair 200R

CX500 (the non-modular version is $30, for myself always modular, for a non-builder, a budget, non-OC, take the $20)

Asus DRW-24B1ST

Win7

 

$751.86

Edited October 19, 2013 by AwesomeOcelot

[ManifestedISO]

The best 'long-term for gaming' solution (price to performance) is a smallish SSD for the operating system (Windows 7) and a regular hard drive for game storage (Steam library). That way, you never have to worry about upgrading the drive installed with Windows, and can concentrate on future-proofing the other (much easier) components. Or leave them all in place for each build, like I do. 

 

Being able to play new games in a year depends on the resolution of the monitor. If it's 1920x1080 or less, that 7870 will have no problem supporting High and sometimes Ultra graphics settings, likely for two years or more with good driver support. In some game benchmarks, it's even surpassed the 7950, slightly, while using less power and making less noise/heat. The extra GB of frame buffer memory shouldn't matter too much at 1080 resolution or below, but more is usually better. All of that means nothing if the price is right, however.