(Spoiler) My absolute biggest gripe with PoE2: Seemingly unfocused narrative

[wuthering20]

 

I enjoyed poe2 story , but it wasnt as good as poe1 in many ways. The biggest issue i had with deadfire is i kept thinking to myself, do i even need to chase eothas? I mean if  my characer just went off and got drunk in a taven for afew weeks, the only thing that would change is that i wouldnt be able to ask eothas to do x, or y after he destroys the wheel. I mean he was gonna do it anyway, the watcher didnt really need to be there for any of it.  His basic plan was sound anyway , no one else wouldnt of known either way lol.

 

Where as in poe1 the entire story is focus on your connection with the main villain, the story just doesnt work without you, and your character definitely cant go get drunk in a taven during the entire thing lol.

 

Actually, you totally can.  PoE1's story happens without you as written. 

Because the story of PoE 1 is the Leaden Key doing the Hollowborn thing.  And they actually succeed. You come to every site too late, they've already done their little dances.  You're always behind Thaos.  He gets down to the bottom of Sun-in-Shadow way before you do (as you've got sidequesting to do, and he just paused to collapse a doorway)  he has enough soul energy from all those soulless kids to do exactly what he intends to do (empower Woedica), and just needs to flip a few more switches on the machine to do it.

 

But to make you feel special, the writing forces him to wait until the player shows up, regardless of whether you got down there in 8 hours or if you took 8 months to tidy up the loose ends. 

 

Thaos won, but bounced on your plot armor at the last minute, trapped in stasis for no good reason.   The Watcher's Awakening is completely irrelevant to what's actually going on in the Dyrwood.

 

To be fair, at least you get to stop Thaos in the end.  

 

But you raised a point that the main story was put in stasis so the Watcher can do whatever we want. It's the problem of almost every RPG though. Maybe the devs should throw in a free time between the final confrontation and the epilogue, allowing us to explore and do the side quests? It needs a bit stretch for the narrative, sure. But it's probably the only way players can take the urgency seriously, not always delay until the last minute.

[FecklessFool]

 

This has to be the worst main plot Obsidian has ever written. Follow someone else around the Deadfire and listen to the gods ramble about inane nonsense, wow, much exciting. Anyone who thinks this is better than the first game's plot has to be smoking crack.

 

Of course not everything will be everyone cup of tea. It's a different type of writing. PoE 1 focus more on you learning about your past and dealing with Thaos. PoE 2 is about the world, the faction and how your factions affect all of them in a rather grand scale compared to PoE 1. It's basically Defiance Bay but an entire archipelago instead.

 

 

No, POE2 is about chasing a god because he has your soul and is killing thousands in his wake, with Berath coercing you to check up on what Eothas is doing.

 

The rest of the content clashes with the main plot. 

 

As I've said here and on Reddit, the main plot should have been centered around the player being a privateer captain making a name for himself and shaping the Deadfire because that is what 95% of the game is about.

[Selky]

 

Also the preparations you actually need to take to sail alone - buy a sail and hull at one of the first guys you meet in the game - are a bit off compared to pleasing the factions. I miss something like "collecting the pieces of the mythical adra compass".

 

I believe you need master captain and a few master level crewmen too (not all of them, I had a few at expert) which means hunting ships. 

 

This has to be the worst main plot Obsidian has ever written. Follow someone else around the Deadfire and listen to the gods ramble about inane nonsense, wow, much exciting. Anyone who thinks this is better than the first game's plot has to be smoking crack.

I never did drugs and I find the plot better paced and more interesting then POE1 because it pace revelation along the plot instead of dumping everything in the last 20 minutes. I liked POE1 plot too. As for why I love POE2 story, I love lore and learning new things and I got a lots of stuff to think about now. I don't need a game main plot to be about "me, the chosen one has to save the world ASAP". In fact, I find those stories boring these days.

 

None of what the gods were saying was nonsense, but I can understand that people who don't pay attention to lore, refuse to immerse themselves in a gameworld and actually role-play would be totally lost.

 

Also, thematically both POE1 and POE2 were the same: chase after X to get answers to your question(s).

 

 

Oh no you didn't!

 

And those scenes don't have anything of interest in them aside from like one line from Magran which never gets mentioned again. There are no engaging roleplay opportunities like the first game where you could discuss the beauty of dragons with Hylea or tell Ondra that living with your past is important - you can try to interject but guess what, they're still going to drone on about how they plan to do nothing. These conversations are just a big fat waste of time like the rest of the plot.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Selky

[FecklessFool]

The gods convos were just a cheap way to shove "the gods are children" down the player's throat. 

 

We're pulling you in here so you can see us bicker Watcher. Do you see it? Do you see how we, those who you call gods, can't get along or decide on anything? Do you see how ineffective we are? 

 

I feel that they are setting it up so the Watcher will finally decide to pull some servers in the next game, but the way they went about it was poorly written and cheap. 

Taking you out of what you're doing so you can get front row seats to them showing how lame they are is just bad. 

 

They should have instead had the gods argue in the form of Saint bodies and this argument would lead to massive death and destruction so the Watcher takes it upon himself to shut down some servers, or become system admin. 

 

Gods abandoning their human forms for reasons is a poor choice, but it makes a convenient excuse I guess. Seems a waste though. 

[morhilane]

 

 

Also the preparations you actually need to take to sail alone - buy a sail and hull at one of the first guys you meet in the game - are a bit off compared to pleasing the factions. I miss something like "collecting the pieces of the mythical adra compass".

 

I believe you need master captain and a few master level crewmen too (not all of them, I had a few at expert) which means hunting ships. 

 

This has to be the worst main plot Obsidian has ever written. Follow someone else around the Deadfire and listen to the gods ramble about inane nonsense, wow, much exciting. Anyone who thinks this is better than the first game's plot has to be smoking crack.

I never did drugs and I find the plot better paced and more interesting then POE1 because it pace revelation along the plot instead of dumping everything in the last 20 minutes. I liked POE1 plot too. As for why I love POE2 story, I love lore and learning new things and I got a lots of stuff to think about now. I don't need a game main plot to be about "me, the chosen one has to save the world ASAP". In fact, I find those stories boring these days.

 

None of what the gods were saying was nonsense, but I can understand that people who don't pay attention to lore, refuse to immerse themselves in a gameworld and actually role-play would be totally lost.

 

Also, thematically both POE1 and POE2 were the same: chase after X to get answers to your question(s).

 

 

Oh no you didn't!

 

And those scenes don't have anything of interest in them aside from like one line from Magran which never gets mentioned again. There are no engaging roleplay opportunities like the first game where you could discuss the beauty of dragons with Hylea or tell Ondra that living with your past is important - you can try to interject but guess what, they're still going to drone on about how they plan to do nothing. These conversations are just a big fat waste of time like the rest of the plot.

 

Did nothing? So, Magran didn't blew up a volcano? Ondra didn't threw a gigantic wave at Eothas? None of them suggested, in two different occasions, to drain their godlikes to power themselves up? Weodica didn't suggest to throw a moon?  It's not because ideas were rejected or were failed attempts that the gods did nothing.

Nothing of interest. We didn't learn that the gods can drain their godlike at will? Didn't learn that they eat souls fragments? Didn't learn that the Wheel was made? Didn't get a deeper understanding of each gods personalities and how they interact with each others? 

 

How does talking about pretty things with Hylea helps the plot in Deadfire?  Or having philosophical debate with them? Instead of you got to piss them off, dismiss them, say you agree with Eothas, etc. You can make Woedica so angry that she tries to kill you (Berath stop her).

 

And you just proved my point about people who refuse to immerse themselves. You wanted something else from the plot so you think it is crap.

Edited May 21, 2018 by morhilane

[Shadowstrider]

PoE 1 was West World. A deeply flawed, overly complex narrative with layers of detail, and interesting (albeit verbose) characters. Was it good, or even great? Ehh... not really, but if you're interested in mysteries and wish-fulfillment it's pretty good.

 

PoE 2 is Jersey Shore. There is a plot, but not really a story, regardless it's not really the point. The characters are vapid, shallow, and overly sexualized. Is it good, or even great? Well... Obsidian focused on "worldbuilding" for PoE 2, not narrative, so the story's purpose is really just to get you exploring the factions and choosing which group of questionably moral'd kith you support. So, if you're trying to get immersed in the setting... albeit a schizophrenic setting full of flippant sexual advances and vapid memes, you'll probably like it.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Shadowstrider

[Noctoi]

The plot is written so that you can role-play that you want to hurry or that you don't care and go do other stuff. Dialogue options support those choices all over the game when you talk to NPCs. Maybe some people here should be more consequent with their role-playing instead of asking a "fix" so that every characters are railroaded into the same decisions.

 

How urgent the plot feels is left to the player. If you decided that Eothas is urgent business go after him and don't bother with exploration and doing side content more than necessary, that's is what role-playing is about.

Eh, giant “god” rampaging across the continent? Not really much room to relax there and wander off to deal with relative trivialities... I kinda felt the same way with the ridiculous ‘ball’ in DA:I. Even though it was a part of the main quest chain I had this incredible struggle with my ability suspend disbelief... I mean the world was LITERALLY ending, and we’re going to curry favour by dressing up like masked dolts and dance for several days? While demons are falling from the sky and the PC is the only one alive who can stand a chance of stopping the bloody great tear in reality? We’re gonna DANCE?!?

 

Uuuhuhh...

 

The problem with escalating to this extent is that from a RP standpoint, if your toon is in any way vested in helping save the world tm, there’s really no valid or logical reason to do anything other than run to the end of the main storyline.

[Noctoi]

 

 

yeah but there is an issue there .

 

See , when you get a game that lead you from one area to another to the ending . Some peoples complain thats it's too limiting and they want to explore .

 

When they ease up and open up the map and make it so you can take your sweet time , it become a 'So dude was waiting this whole time while I was playing fedEx ? Laaaaaaaaaame !'' .

 

See what I mean ?

 

The real question is what is the middle road ?

 

I don't think there is a middle road. There will always be people complaining about something - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

I for one am happy that this game is different to its predecessor, yet it still pulls at my heart strings. Its a lot of fun, and while the main quest doesn't have as much urgency, the game doesn't feel any worse for it, at least to me. I think if it was too much like the previous one, it would get very old very fast. And there will be EVEN MORE complaining on the forums

dunno..

 

I like to think there is a middle road somewhere . Only , nobody tried finding it .

 

Because if you go with 'Game is either X or Y' ..then by that saying , Deadfire is a failur . Since the 1st game that set the setting wasn't about exploring much but story driven . This game has exploring island and combat at sea .

 

A middle road would be a bit more story heavy when it come to chasing the main quest , more urgency and drama .

 

And keep the exploring and fight at sea .

 

That would be a middle road no?

 

I personally , games that tell me to go explore...like skyrim , and such...are a bore . I'm a shameless starving person that love a good story . And heck even when I try to get into the exploring..I just get bored fast .

A call from some soon to be companion asking for the assistance of the well known hero/protagonist to come help in the Deadfire area would have worked nicely I think... Request for aid, followed by an investigation filled “act 1” to figure out what’s causing the local phenomena, then “oh shrimpsticks!! It’s the main plot reveal” after finding a couple of companions and being organically nudged towards a few more side quests... that would have worked as an incentive/middle ground.

 

Escalating too early (like before the game was even released!) puts huge emphasis on stopping the crisis event rather than *discovering the plot and exploring ways to solve it *.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Noctoi

[Yria]

Okay, after finishing Ashen Maw myself (as opposed to just reading spoilers) I have to say that my biggest gripe with the game isn't even about the terribly short main story or unfocused narrative. It's about making my character way more important for the game's world than I like them to be, silly as this might sound. I enjoyed it in PoE 1 that while we were somewhat rare as a watcher, we were still by no means unique. Our ties to the plot came from having known Thaos in a previous life, not from being the Chosen One. Running into Adaryc and having him read our soul was really cool because it drove home this exact message: the Watcher is no special snowflake, there are dozens of others like them out there in the world. I loved that.

 

But now we have to be this Herald of Berath, Chaser of Eothas, super special THE Watcher of Caed Nua character to whom even the gods actually listen. What the actual f... If I wanted to feel that special, I'd just go play ME again. Eothas, why couldn't you awaken under somebody else's keep, why did you have to do this to me? 

[Wormerine]

I still don’t understand why Watcher is so special. He really wasn’t in PoE1. His soul was needed to ask the question, and unfortunate incidents force you as player to abide. The second one seems to lean harder “Eothas listens to YOU, only YOU can convince him to change his mind, Eothas need YOUR soul in particular”.

 

But why?

 

And I do agree that the amount of titles you gather in Deadfire becomes ridiculous. A new character who travels to Deadfire on a ship and dies when encountering Eothas on his journey to Port Maje might make for a better narrative - In DF you’re more of a herald of berath, rather than a Watcher anyway. Not to mention Watcher having no stakes in the political intrigue.

[Yria]

The second one seems to lean harder “Eothas listens to YOU, only YOU can convince him to change his mind, Eothas need YOUR soul in particular”.

 

But why?

 

Maybe he is just that much of a nice person and feels really bad about having to destroy your keep and steal your soul? He sounded so invested in my wellbeing during that conversation in Ashen Maw that all I could say in the end was "Err thank you, much appreciated", none of the other replies seemed to fit the situation  

Edited May 26, 2018 by Yria