Multiclass choices for a tank PC (no fighter class)?

[Thormind]

I want to make a multiclass tank without the fighter class. Played a fighter in POE1 and i want to try something else. Here are some of the options i considered:

 

Paladin/Beckoner: Beefy paladin using summons as meat shield more than dps

 

Paladin/Stalker: Bear pet. Two tank for the price of one?

 

Paladin/shifter: Can the shift form be used for tanking even if you loose your gear bonus? Does it scale well for endgame?

 

Paladin/Priest: Is it a decent tank? If i use the druid companion with this, can i skip the priest companion completely?

 

Stalker/Beckoner: you get your pet and your summon as meat shields. Only question is can you be tanky enough without a paladin or fighter class?

 

Stalker/shifter: Can you tank well enough wile shifted?

 

 

 

[Balbanes]

Paladin / Priest of Wael is absurdly tanky due to pairing the paladin's naturally high defenses with priest buffs and illusion spells.  It's practically a triple class.  Unfortunately you can't pair Wael with Goldpack for maximum tankiness, but Arcane Veil (at level 1!), Mirrored Image, and Llengrath's Displaced Image more than makes up for it.

 

Keep in mind that unlike a Fighter, you'll need to go out of your way to increase Engagements to lock down an area.  The Spear modal is good place to start, since you can use that right out of the gate.

[Yosharian]

Beckoner is totally boring, yo. Troubadour 4 lyfe

[syphonhail]

Arcane Warrior [Paladin+Wizard (Enchanter Sub Class)]. Buff yourself and Debuff your enemies.

[Ganrich]

Beckoner is totally boring, yo. Troubadour 4 lyfe

Agreed. Over beta, Troubadour became my favorite Chanter Sub. It's just so versatile. It can combine with just about any other subclass and not be hampered. It can tank, heal, and do damage.

 

Want to focus on phrases and try to keep 2 phrases up all the time? Well, it can.

 

Want to switch on Brisk Recitation, and be a frontline nuker? Well, it can.

 

Want to be a buff/debuff/CC focused tank? It's got you covered. It doesnt rely on crits like Skald either. Nor are you penalized for any of the Invocation types.

It can use any of them.

 

Want to be a front line healer/tank? I'd pick Kind Wayfarer/Troubadour for my Herald. You can basically be constantly healing between FoD and Ancient Memory. Have LoH for clutch heals in melee, Invocations for big AoE heals, and so on.

Also, you can use the pally defensive stance. Wearing heavier armor doesnt hurt phrases, but does slow down Invocation recovery. However, it is a lot of fun. You can adapt on the fly with a good list of Chants, Invocations, and your other classes abilities. It has a tool for every situation.

 

I'm playing a Rogue/Troubadour with explosives using ranged weapons. It is so fun. Using grenades, appropriate invocations, and rogue abilities for debuffs in order to get Sneak Attack. Saving Guile for escape to reposition, switching Chants depending on your current battlefield location, excape plus Killers Froze means you can maximize your paralyze really easily. Constantly doing paralyze, armor debuff, and an occasional nuke.

 

I highly recommend Troubadour.

[Thormind]

 

Beckoner is totally boring, yo. Troubadour 4 lyfe

Agreed. Over beta, Troubadour became my favorite Chanter Sub. It's just so versatile. It can combine with just about any other subclass and not be hampered. It can tank, heal, and do damage.

 

Want to focus on phrases and try to keep 2 phrases up all the time? Well, it can.

 

Want to switch on Brisk Recitation, and be a frontline nuker? Well, it can.

 

Want to be a buff/debuff/CC focused tank? It's got you covered. It doesnt rely on crits like Skald either. Nor are you penalized for any of the Invocation types.

It can use any of them.

 

Want to be a front line healer/tank? I'd pick Kind Wayfarer/Troubadour for my Herald. You can basically be constantly healing between FoD and Ancient Memory. Have LoH for clutch heals in melee, Invocations for big AoE heals, and so on.

Also, you can use the pally defensive stance. Wearing heavier armor doesnt hurt phrases, but does slow down Invocation recovery. However, it is a lot of fun. You can adapt on the fly with a good list of Chants, Invocations, and your other classes abilities. It has a tool for every situation.

 

I'm playing a Rogue/Troubadour with explosives using ranged weapons. It is so fun. Using grenades, appropriate invocations, and rogue abilities for debuffs in order to get Sneak Attack. Saving Guile for escape to reposition, switching Chants depending on your current battlefield location, excape plus Killers Froze means you can maximize your paralyze really easily. Constantly doing paralyze, armor debuff, and an occasional nuke.

 

I highly recommend Troubadour.

 

 

I dont really understand the benefit of a troubadour and how its actually play. From what i understand:

 

- By default you get better buff from chants because they stack. For a tank that can means having the chant that adds +1 engagement and the one that gives a dmg shield at the same time. Problem is it will take more time before you star using invocations.

 

- With the modal you would never have 2 phrases at the same time. Now this is the part i dont understand. You use your phrases faster but it takes more phrases to cast an invocation. Doesnt the 2 balance out each other? If yes then doesnt that means you end up with the penalty of loosing lingering phrases for no bonus?

 

From what i understand Beckoner makes chanter better at summoning without affecting any other aspect of the class. Am i correct? For a tank you would have more pet to act as meat shields and would all get the +1 engagement from the chant. Each pet would be able to engage 2 target. That sounds like a really good thing if your intention is to get the opponents attention as much as possible, no?

 

How about Paladin/stalker, anyone played that combo? ive narrowed my choice between those 2 now.

 

Tks for your help!

[Ganrich]

It somewhat balances out with Brisk Recitation.  Phrases take 6 seconds to cast, and have a 3 second linger.  Which means the buff is up a total of 9 seconds.  Troubadour without BR modal on has an extra 50% linger.  So their linger time is 4.5 seconds.  This means a Troubadour can have a linger than lasts 75% of his next phrase.  this means if 2 phrases take 12 seconds to speak then you  will have 10.5 seconds of each buff before they fade.  This is at 10 Intellect.  Add in a higher intellect, and it is possible to get darn close to 100% upkeep if not all the way.   My current Troub doesnt have that much Intellect, but my Linger is 5.6 seconds.  So I am only .4 seconds away from 100% upkeep.  My base Intellect is 15, but I have +2 from gear.  So at 17 intellect, and level 8 as a Troub/Rogue I have 6 seconds phrase with a 5.6 linger.  If your intellect got near 20... I am guess 100%. 

 

When BR modal is on you have 3 second phrase cast, and no linger.  This generates phrases quickly, but you can only have 1 phrase at a time.  That is the balance.  Yes, all your invocations cast 1 more to cast than a standard Chanter.  Your 3 chant invocation costs 4.  So a Chanter takes 18 seconds to cast 3 phrases.  A Troubadour with BR modal on takes 12 seconds to cast 4 phrases.  Once you get into the higher cost Invocations the difference gets bigger.  Skald is the only other chanter that could keep up, and his is based on RNG of whether you got a Crit or not.  Then you get a 50% chance of a phrase generated based on that crit.  So, you have to crit, and then you have to win the coin toss.  However, Troubadour's BR always generates phrases quickly.

 

So, all that said, The trade off is, do you want to double buff with phrases and have Ancient memory for AoE heal plus the high level chant that gives everyone 12% life tap on their weapons?  Or do you need to get some phrases out quickly and hit that big dumb Ogre with Killers Froze and stop him in his tracks?  I toggle BR pretty frequently.  Some battles it is on the whole time.  If things get hairy, I turn it off and switch to a solid buff chant and try to stay in the middle of my group.  Simultaneously swapping between ranged and melee depending on the conditions on the battlefield.  However, my current Troubadour/Rogue is squishy.  So I am either flanking with Shadow Step ready to go, or I am firing from behind the tanks but in front of casters. 

 

In a tank build, if you aren't getting slammed too hard then you can turn on BR and get some AoE damage in, or a buff out, or a CC.  If you are taking heat then you leave it off, have 2 Chants up most (if not all) the time, focus on you other classes abilities, and cast invocations when they come (Much more slowly of course).  BR makes the build fun, at least for me.  The Troubadour is the swiss army knife of Chanters.  It can be what you need it to be right then and there.  You just have to toggle BR. 

 

Also, I typically have a Chant set that ONLY has 1 chant in it.  I have 2 right now.  Sometimes I will Turn BR on, and switch to a single chant because that chant is the one I need.  Then when I turn it off I go back to the Chant that has 2 phrases in it to get the "near" double buff.  Just something I do occasionally when toggling BR.  Take it for what it is worth.  It does create some down time while you are switching, but sometimes there is a clutch phrase you want up 100% but you need to cast some invocations too. 

[pi2repsion]

Thormind - the point with Troubadour is one that is well worth remembering with all multiclassing: having two classes may give you more options, but it doesn't affect how many actions you can take in the same time.

 

This is one of the things that makes 2xMartial multiclassing very powerful in this game: passive abilities from one class that work well with passives or actives from another, while something that requires the use of active abilities from both classes has a much harder time being competitive with a single class. And most of the martial classes have some very good passive abilities. (There are also some really good active ability martial class combos, but in general passives are where it is at.)

 

Troubadour gives you the best of both worlds. A Chanter's phrases apply no matter what else you are doing. Attack, cast a spell or use an ability from the other class, you are still benefiting from the buffs, debuffs, or damage applied by the phrases at all times. And Troubadour makes this even better by extending the lingering time significantly.

 

Just like in POE1 a Chanter can be played either with a focus on his phrases or his invocations - usually as a mix of both. But the multiclass chanter is simply ideal for a focus on phrases via Troubadour with invocations thrown in as necessary. Even better, with the other part of the class providing an alternate source to use the other class' abilities, the Troubadour requiring more phrases to use an incantation matters a lot less for the multiclass than for the single class Troubadour.

 

And for when you DO want invocations swiftly rather than relying mainly on your phrases and the other side of your multiclass and are willing to give up the linger effect for the short duration you need this, you have the Brisk Recitation modal available, which makes you swifter than anything but a Skald on crit steroids.

 

The Chanter/Troubadour and the Paladin/anything are the best general-purpose multiclass options in the game by far. Others may make better specific combos, but these work well with everything.

Edited May 10, 2018 by pi2repsion

[cactot]

The benefit of troubadour is that it casts high level invocations of all types faster than anyone (1 phrase every three seconds with brisk recitation) or keep 2 going with complete overlap much easier than anyone else (20int vs 30int) depending on your needs. That makes them very flexible.

 

The only way you might be able to generate phases faster is with some very specific crit based skald builds (that would likely require multiclassing, locking out the highest level invocations). For a skald to match troubadour on non offensive invocations, they would need to average a melee crit every 1.5 seconds, which is pretty challenging to accomplish. It would basically require either cleave or blood thirst to make work.

[Thormind]

I tested Shieldbarer/Troubadour last night and like you said it's really good. My only problem is i found the summon really long to cast. My current stats are: 10might, 14con, 10dex, 14percep, 14int and 16 resolve. Im thinking about restarting with 14 dex instead of perception. Would that have a noticeable impact on the summons casting time? With 10 perception am i limiting myself to a support role where i cant use anything that needs to hit (CC/dmg/debuffs)? If i go for 14dex and perception and keep might and con at 10, will i still be able to tank well with the low fortitude?

[Climhazzard]

I plan on replacing Palegina in my party tonight to try out an idea I had for a team regen herald that her stats aren't really suitable for.

 

Go shield bearer/trabadour/moon godlike

 

Use ancient memory, zealous endurance with upgrade, and the +100% healing chant.  Lay on hands when needed.

 

Stack might, intelligence, and +healing.  As high as you can get them, then get anything with extra engagement slots.

[mrscojangles]

I tested Shieldbarer/Troubadour last night and like you said it's really good. My only problem is i found the summon really long to cast. My current stats are: 10might, 14con, 10dex, 14percep, 14int and 16 resolve. Im thinking about restarting with 14 dex instead of perception. Would that have a noticeable impact on the summons casting time? With 10 perception am i limiting myself to a support role where i cant use anything that needs to hit (CC/dmg/debuffs)? If i go for 14dex and perception and keep might and con at 10, will i still be able to tank well with the low fortitude?

 

From my limited playing with Troubadour/bleak walker tank, I'd say you're going to be better off mostly sticking with the .5 second cast invocations if the character is your primary tank. Even with high dex, the cast time on the summons is going to be less than ideal for a character that theoretically is going to have multiple people beating on them. Obviously this is situational and if you're CCing all the enemies or they're flocking to other characters/summons, then you'll have time to cast summons, but they don't seem particularly ideal to cast when you're actively tanking multiple enemies. where as the invocations that are .5 seconds baseline are really easy to get out even with dex dumped. 

[Ganrich]

Yeah, if you are tanking it means heavier armor which makes those long 6 second casts even longer.  Dex would definitely help that a bit, but not totally.  A lot of classes get a passive that give a Concentration buff at the beginning of combat at around power level 3 called Combat Focus.  That passive might be worth picking up for safety sake.  6+ seconds on a cast like that is forever in a half, and you're just asking to be interrupted.  I know Priests get a couple spells that give a concentration buff too.  Like Champion's Boon at level V.  It gives the Resolute Inspiration which includes concentration.  I would look for anything that gives a Concentration buff.  I am unsure what all does give that buff.  At least not off the top of my head, and the wiki isn't up to date as of yet.