How useful is Intellect in Deadfire?

[Yosharian]

So after watching NerdCommando's latest video (search for 'NerdCommando' on YouTube), I noticed that he is dump-statting Intellect on some of his characters.

 

As far as I can tell, the reasoning is thus:

 

1) The duration penalty (something like -35% duration at extremely low Intellect) is negated somewhat by Power Level.  A level 7 single-class character has something in the region of +20% duration, which offsets the penalty significantly.  A multi-class character at the same level has about +10%.  So, for example, Disciplined Strikes lasts between 10-11 seconds for a character with extremely low intellect, as opposed to the 15 second default.

 

2) A single-class character has enough resources over the course of a single encounter to keep using an ability, which again negates the duration penalty.  If you have enough resources to cast an ability several times, you don't necessarily need a long duration on your ability, because you can just recast it - it's a little less efficient, but worth it for the bonuses one can receive with more points in other attributes.  (Not to mention, recasting buffs is way easier with the new gambit/tactics system!)  We talked briefly about Disciplined Strikes using a single-classed Fighter with 3 Intellect:

 

 

 

Combat lasts for about a minute and pure Fighter has enough discipline for that

 

Now dumping Intellect also harms your Willpower stat and gives you a rather large area of effect penalty, something in the region of -70% for an extremely low Intellect (pretty horrendous for any character that casts an area of effect ability, such as a group buff).

 

However these penalties can be worked around I believe.  For example, focusing on abilities which do not use area of effect - rather easy for a Fighter, possibly?

 

In exchange for dumping Intellect, we can boost other attributes like Dexterity, Resolve, Perception and Constitution, which have clear, and in some cases incredibly powerful, benefits.  NC touched briefly upon the fact that some of these attributes are multiplicative which means a character benefits enormously from boosting them.

 

So.  Thoughts?

 

PS: Obviously, NC is a min-maxer, and thus opts to tune Intellect to an extremely low level in order to maximise the benefits in other attributes.  However, you can use the idea of lowering Intellect without going to such extremes, if it offends your role-playing sensibilities (it does mine, somewhat!).  For example, you could lower intellect to about 7, thus making your character a little obtuse, but not exactly a dimwit.  This would give you more points to spend in other attributes.  I guess what I'm saying is, it's unnecessary to respond with 'well I don't care because putting Intellect at 3 is just absurd', because you can simply make the same arguments for lowering Intellect and merely reduce it a little less.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Yosharian

[KDubya]

My concern would be in tanking my will save and becoming target number one for charm and dominate where my massive offensive output would be turned on my team.

 

Its not as if I'd be dumping Intellect and adding those points to Resolve (actually now that I think of it trading duration for affliction reduction might be a good trade for Fighters and maybe Rogues.)

 

I tend to either keep Intellect at ten or add a few to get it to 15 or so. The longer duration lets me use some resources for other abilities rather than needing to save it for a low duration Disciplined Strikes.

 

Plus it'd greatly diminish your Constant Regen.

 

I pretty much have been sticking with my standard ' leave everything at 10 and then pick three to raise to 15 with another three available to add wherever'

[George_Truman]

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables. 

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one. 

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by George_Truman

[M4xw0lf]

On my player character I could never bring myself to dump Int. I have some pride, you know.

[CENIC]

If NC couldn't dump INT, he would dump something else. Minmaxers need 20+ in their damage stat to be competitive in PotD/TCS.

 

He probably LOVED being able to freely dump STR/RES last patch!

Edited April 4, 2018 by CENIC

[Gromnir]

 

I pretty much have been sticking with my standard ' leave everything at 10 and then pick three to raise to 15 with another three available to add wherever'

 

other than tanks, am doing something similar... although before the return to might, we were dumping strength on our pure casters and raising constitution by an equal amount-- were admitted a bit silly, but effective. by capping the attributes at 35 makes us even less likely to pump single attributes as am suspecting we will frequent be hitting caps by mid/late game even with 15 as a starting attribute. as an example, our beta helwalker builds, without any might boosting gear, typical get to 30+ strength early in an encounter. 

 

in poe, for rp reasons, we played virtual the same attribute spread for every character save tanks:

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84838-optimal-starting-stats-and-late-game-signifficance-for-wizard/?p=1782213

 

with multiple potd runs in poe, we can say with some confidence that our default attribute spreads were more than adequate.

 

attributes appear to be less frequent drivers in dialogues, so am current not skewing attributes to take dialog into account.  as such, our current default spread for pc non tanks is: m15, c10, d15, p13, int 15, r 10.  is some limited variation with int and per flipping depending on a build, but am typical building multiclasses which benefit from the aforementioned spread whether they is templars, contemplatives, sages, warlocks or whatnot.  

 

even so, if we discovered our assumptions 'bout deadfire dialogs being less attribute linked, we would gladly return to our poe spread w/o a moment's hesitation. might is a bit more important in deadfire than were the case in poe, but optimal attributes spreads were hardly essential even for potd runs in poe and we suspect deadfire will be the same based on our considerable gameplay hour investment in deadfire.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

Maybe NC did it because of this:

 

- in PoE the AoE size was influenced via radius - so +30% AoE size meant actually that your radius was increased by 30%, which transaltes to a much bigger growth of area than 30%.

 

- in Deadfire it's the actual area that gets increased, not the radius anymore. Because if that the percentage-gain wa raised to 10%, but it's still less powerful than in PoE. IN beta 3 and before is was even worse because it was only 5% to area (not to radius). That means tha dumping INT didn't reduce your AoE size a lot while raising INT didn't enlarge it much.

 

- and as others already said: Power Level can balance out short durations. Also if you have unlimited resources (wounds, focus, phrases) a shorter duration doesn't matter that much.

[Yosharian]

My concern would be in tanking my will save and becoming target number one for charm and dominate where my massive offensive output would be turned on my team.

 

Its not as if I'd be dumping Intellect and adding those points to Resolve (actually now that I think of it trading duration for affliction reduction might be a good trade for Fighters and maybe Rogues.)

 

I tend to either keep Intellect at ten or add a few to get it to 15 or so. The longer duration lets me use some resources for other abilities rather than needing to save it for a low duration Disciplined Strikes.

 

Plus it'd greatly diminish your Constant Regen.

 

I pretty much have been sticking with my standard ' leave everything at 10 and then pick three to raise to 15 with another three available to add wherever'

 

> tanking my will save and becoming target number one for charm and dominate

 

Does -10 Will Save change you from being pretty resistant to Charm and Dominate, to being extremely vulnerable to Charm and Dominate?

 

It seems that the Fighter has a low Will Save and lowering it even more really doesn't change how the character will respond to incoming Charms and Dominates too much.  Maybe they will crit more often, which isn't great, but if your Fighter gets charmed/dominated, then it's either a bad situation that you have to resolve quickly, or a situation you can ignore safely and finish the fight - either way, extra duration on it doesn't change the dynamic too much as far as I can see.

 

> adding those points to Resolve

 

Well, exactly, that's a viable option.  Extra deflection and lower negative status durations could be seen as vastly superior to the benefits Intellect gives.

 

> The longer duration lets me use some resources for other abilities rather than needing to save it for a low duration Disciplined Strikes.

 

Are there any other abilities really worth spending resources on?

 

>  greatly diminish your Constant Regen.

 

I disagree with 'greatly', but isn't NC's argument that you don't need a huge duration on your CR because the fights don't last that long?

[Yosharian]

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables. 

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one. 

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats. 

 

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables. 

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

[Yosharian]

Maybe NC did it because of this:

 

- in PoE the AoE size was influenced via radius - so +30% AoE size meant actually that your radius was increased by 30%, which transaltes to a much bigger growth of area than 30%.

 

- in Deadfire it's the actual area that gets increased, not the radius anymore. Because if that the percentage-gain wa raised to 10%, but it's still less powerful than in PoE. IN beta 3 and before is was even worse because it was only 5% to area (not to radius). That means tha dumping INT didn't reduce your AoE size a lot while raising INT didn't enlarge it much.

 

- and as others already said: Power Level can balance out short durations. Also if you have unlimited resources (wounds, focus, phrases) a shorter duration doesn't matter that much.

 

> in Deadfire it's the actual area that gets increased, not the radius anymore.

 

And I think this is potentially a mistake because when it comes to area of effect spells, no-one cares about area, what they care about is radius, because they want to hit that dude over there and that dude over there and that's a radius problem, not an area problem.

[George_Truman]

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables. 

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one. 

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats. 

 

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables. 

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

 

 

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

[Yosharian]

 

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables. 

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one. 

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats. 

 

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables. 

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

 

 

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

 

 

> Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you

 

But that's precisely my point, if my Fighter is destined to fail that Charm/Dominate save anyway, it doesn't matter if I have 40 Will or 20 Will.

 

I'd like to see a test that shows an Intellect-boosted character with the +20 talent and Vigorous Defense activated can reliably resist Charm/Dominate, especially on POTD, else I remain sceptical that it matters at all.

 

Not to mention that if the Charm/Dominate caster merely targets someone else in your party instead, then it's basically a pointless exercise!

 

>  paralyzed from banshee screams

 

Right now I'm running through POE1 on POTD and that ability instantly paralyzes everyone in my party, regardless of their Will saves.  The Priest immunity spell is the only way to protect against it.

 

 

> so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA 

 

Ok that is a good point.

[Torm51]

My concern would be in tanking my will save and becoming target number one for charm and dominate where my massive offensive output would be turned on my team.

 

Its not as if I'd be dumping Intellect and adding those points to Resolve (actually now that I think of it trading duration for affliction reduction might be a good trade for Fighters and maybe Rogues.)

 

I tend to either keep Intellect at ten or add a few to get it to 15 or so. The longer duration lets me use some resources for other abilities rather than needing to save it for a low duration Disciplined Strikes.

 

Plus it'd greatly diminish your Constant Regen.

 

I pretty much have been sticking with my standard ' leave everything at 10 and then pick three to raise to 15 with another three available to add wherever'

I saw you post this once years ago and Ihave done it ever since. It works well. Three 5s in my major and a 3 in my

Minor with nothing dumped.

[Torm51]

 

 

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables.

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one.

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats.

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables.

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

> Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you

 

But that's precisely my point, if my Fighter is destined to fail that Charm/Dominate save anyway, it doesn't matter if I have 40 Will or 20 Will.

 

I'd like to see a test that shows an Intellect-boosted character with the +20 talent and Vigorous Defense activated can reliably resist Charm/Dominate, especially on POTD, else I remain sceptical that it matters at all.

 

Not to mention that if the Charm/Dominate caster merely targets someone else in your party instead, then it's basically a pointless exercise!

 

> paralyzed from banshee screams

 

Right now I'm running through POE1 on POTD and that ability instantly paralyzes everyone in my party, regardless of their Will saves. The Priest immunity spell is the only way to protect against it.

 

 

> so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA

 

Ok that is a good point.

About the Caen Gwla are you running a Paladin? Cause on my PoTD with an outworn buckler at about level 10 they can only land grazes and by 12 miss most of the time.

 

I agree to a point on PoTD I think it’s better to disable

And kill them to rely on saves. EXCEPT for a Paladin he can eat disables like crazy and either graze or they will miss entirely even on PoTD. This is late game about lvl 12 and on.

 

PS I had a huge FORT on my last Paladin and on PoTD/Trial of Iron/expecrt mode. I let the dragon auto attack after I pulled it into a corner and it was whiffing constantly. Miss miss miss lol then I stopped messing around and disabled him/her lol that was the Alpine Dragon, sams result with the Adra, Sky and Lenengraths ground dragon.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Torm51

[Yosharian]

 

 

 

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables.

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one.

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats.

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables.

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

> Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you

 

But that's precisely my point, if my Fighter is destined to fail that Charm/Dominate save anyway, it doesn't matter if I have 40 Will or 20 Will.

 

I'd like to see a test that shows an Intellect-boosted character with the +20 talent and Vigorous Defense activated can reliably resist Charm/Dominate, especially on POTD, else I remain sceptical that it matters at all.

 

Not to mention that if the Charm/Dominate caster merely targets someone else in your party instead, then it's basically a pointless exercise!

 

> paralyzed from banshee screams

 

Right now I'm running through POE1 on POTD and that ability instantly paralyzes everyone in my party, regardless of their Will saves. The Priest immunity spell is the only way to protect against it.

 

 

> so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA

 

Ok that is a good point.

About the Caen Gwla are you running a Paladin? Cause on my PoTD with an outworn buckler at about level 10 they can only land grazes and by 12 miss most of the time.

 

I agree to a point on PoTD I think it’s better to disable

And kill them to rely on saves. EXCEPT for a Paladin he can eat disables like crazy and either graze or they will miss entirely even on PoTD. This is late game about lvl 12 and on.

 

 

I'm using Pallegina, yes she's using the Outworn Buckler.  I'm about level 10/11 I believe.  I didn't notice her suffering a graze instead of a hit but it's possible.

[Torm51]

 

 

 

 

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables.

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one.

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats.

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables.

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

> Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you

 

But that's precisely my point, if my Fighter is destined to fail that Charm/Dominate save anyway, it doesn't matter if I have 40 Will or 20 Will.

 

I'd like to see a test that shows an Intellect-boosted character with the +20 talent and Vigorous Defense activated can reliably resist Charm/Dominate, especially on POTD, else I remain sceptical that it matters at all.

 

Not to mention that if the Charm/Dominate caster merely targets someone else in your party instead, then it's basically a pointless exercise!

 

> paralyzed from banshee screams

 

Right now I'm running through POE1 on POTD and that ability instantly paralyzes everyone in my party, regardless of their Will saves. The Priest immunity spell is the only way to protect against it.

 

 

> so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA

 

Ok that is a good point.

About the Caen Gwla are you running a Paladin? Cause on my PoTD with an outworn buckler at about level 10 they can only land grazes and by 12 miss most of the time.

 

I agree to a point on PoTD I think it’s better to disable

And kill them to rely on saves. EXCEPT for a Paladin he can eat disables like crazy and either graze or they will miss entirely even on PoTD. This is late game about lvl 12 and on.

I'm using Pallegina, yes she's using the Outworn Buckler. I'm about level 10/11 I believe. I didn't notice her suffering a graze instead of a hit but it's possible.

Ya you can get hit from time to time then but you still reliably graze as a Paladin for sure. After 12 forget it you can eat attacks and they will just graze or miss

[Yosharian]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables.

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one.

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats.

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables.

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

> Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you

 

But that's precisely my point, if my Fighter is destined to fail that Charm/Dominate save anyway, it doesn't matter if I have 40 Will or 20 Will.

 

I'd like to see a test that shows an Intellect-boosted character with the +20 talent and Vigorous Defense activated can reliably resist Charm/Dominate, especially on POTD, else I remain sceptical that it matters at all.

 

Not to mention that if the Charm/Dominate caster merely targets someone else in your party instead, then it's basically a pointless exercise!

 

> paralyzed from banshee screams

 

Right now I'm running through POE1 on POTD and that ability instantly paralyzes everyone in my party, regardless of their Will saves. The Priest immunity spell is the only way to protect against it.

 

 

> so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA

 

Ok that is a good point.

About the Caen Gwla are you running a Paladin? Cause on my PoTD with an outworn buckler at about level 10 they can only land grazes and by 12 miss most of the time.

 

I agree to a point on PoTD I think it’s better to disable

And kill them to rely on saves. EXCEPT for a Paladin he can eat disables like crazy and either graze or they will miss entirely even on PoTD. This is late game about lvl 12 and on.

I'm using Pallegina, yes she's using the Outworn Buckler. I'm about level 10/11 I believe. I didn't notice her suffering a graze instead of a hit but it's possible.

Ya you can get hit from time to time then but you still reliably graze as a Paladin for sure. After 12 forget it you can eat attacks and they will just graze or miss

 

 

Ok.  But then I'm thinking: my paladin isn't paralyzed, great.  But the rest of my party is.  So the best strategy is still to cast the immunity spell.  So... it's still rather pointless ;-)

[Torm51]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables.

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one.

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats.

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables.

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

> Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you

 

But that's precisely my point, if my Fighter is destined to fail that Charm/Dominate save anyway, it doesn't matter if I have 40 Will or 20 Will.

 

I'd like to see a test that shows an Intellect-boosted character with the +20 talent and Vigorous Defense activated can reliably resist Charm/Dominate, especially on POTD, else I remain sceptical that it matters at all.

 

Not to mention that if the Charm/Dominate caster merely targets someone else in your party instead, then it's basically a pointless exercise!

 

> paralyzed from banshee screams

 

Right now I'm running through POE1 on POTD and that ability instantly paralyzes everyone in my party, regardless of their Will saves. The Priest immunity spell is the only way to protect against it.

 

 

> so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA

 

Ok that is a good point.

About the Caen Gwla are you running a Paladin? Cause on my PoTD with an outworn buckler at about level 10 they can only land grazes and by 12 miss most of the time.

 

I agree to a point on PoTD I think it’s better to disable

And kill them to rely on saves. EXCEPT for a Paladin he can eat disables like crazy and either graze or they will miss entirely even on PoTD. This is late game about lvl 12 and on.

I'm using Pallegina, yes she's using the Outworn Buckler. I'm about level 10/11 I believe. I didn't notice her suffering a graze instead of a hit but it's possible.

Ya you can get hit from time to time then but you still reliably graze as a Paladin for sure. After 12 forget it you can eat attacks and they will just graze or miss

Ok. But then I'm thinking: my paladin isn't paralyzed, great. But the rest of my party is. So the best strategy is still to cast the immunity spell. So... it's still rather pointless ;-)

It’s micro but I just separate my Paladin pop him out of stealth and he eats all attacks at the start I buff the rest of the party and everything dies. *shrug* i guess this only really matters in fights where I seperate the tank cause I don’t want the party eating dragon breathes or bad ccs it’s not for ever fight. But I do this in regular fights too just pop the tank out first and he will eat most attacks.

 

*shrug*

Edited April 5, 2018 by Torm51

[Yosharian]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does cleaving stance benefit from int?

 

I think in some people's attempts to min/max they end up making the game more difficult. If you poop away your defenses you may get more damage but you might also explode and do no damage (being dead multiplies your damage by 0). Making glass characters can often make the game harder instead of easier and in those cases can you really call it effective min/maxing?

 

The build he talks about in the vid is a shooting build, but is that more powerful than a cleave build? Is forgoing cleave because you want to dump int really that strong? Is having a min/max tank and a min/max damage dealer really more efficient than having a decent tank that deals solid damage and a strong damage dealer that can take a few hits? (I am not in beta so I really don't know answers). If you pump int instead of tanking it, your 7 discipline could get you 40 seconds of vigorous defense along with 60 seconds of disciplined barrage, which could result in a massive damage swing on account of avoiding disables.

 

I've played obscene amounts of PoE1 and I spent a really long time following NC's builds, but I think often in the pursuit of min/maxing he makes some less than optimal builds. If you have multiple obstacles to overcome, then a jack of all trades is often better suited than a master of one.

 

Also, I have no idea about deadfire but in Pillars 1 reflex was way weaker than constitution and will. In my experience it was usually con>will>>>reflex and that was another major factor that went into choosing stats.

> If you poop away your defenses

 

> decent tank

 

> can take a few hits

 

It's only Will, a stat that is poor on Fighters anyway, and you could always put it into Resolve instead, which would give you less affliction duration and more deflection.

 

> on account of avoiding disables.

 

It's not clear to me that boosting your Will save by a few points and adding an extra 5 seconds of Vigorous Defense will suddenly result in a character that can 'avoid' disables.

 

In POTD especially, charms and dominates have such high Will save requirements that it is nigh-impossible to avoid them by boosting defences (although I'll grant this is less of a factor on lower difficulties).

 

> Is forgoing cleave

 

I can't comment on Cleave, maybe someone else can offer some insight as to whether it's worth getting and whether lowering Intellect really harms it all that much.

A lot of what I was saying about min/maxing was meant in a general sense. Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you. Also, will doesn't just save you from resolve and int afflictions, it also affects your ability to dodge abilities like shining beacon, devotions, and other attribute affects like paralyzed from banshee screams/killers froze stiff.

 

I think you are missing the point of opportunity cost. its not 5 or 10 extra seconds of vigorous defense you get from pumping int, its 40, because you only have to spend 3 discipline for a minute of Disciplined Barrage instead of 6, so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA (i'm using base duration values and assuming the 7 points of discipline @ 10). That will indeed have an impact on the disables you sustain and your probability of getting bursted down. High defense also allows more ease of use and versatility. A higher defense may allow you to put a character into harms way to take down a priority target that they may otherwise not have been able to reach.

> Weather you notice it or not all of the defensive stats associated with the attributes affect you

 

But that's precisely my point, if my Fighter is destined to fail that Charm/Dominate save anyway, it doesn't matter if I have 40 Will or 20 Will.

 

I'd like to see a test that shows an Intellect-boosted character with the +20 talent and Vigorous Defense activated can reliably resist Charm/Dominate, especially on POTD, else I remain sceptical that it matters at all.

 

Not to mention that if the Charm/Dominate caster merely targets someone else in your party instead, then it's basically a pointless exercise!

 

> paralyzed from banshee screams

 

Right now I'm running through POE1 on POTD and that ability instantly paralyzes everyone in my party, regardless of their Will saves. The Priest immunity spell is the only way to protect against it.

 

 

> so you can spend the remaining 4 points on 40 seconds of VA

 

Ok that is a good point.

About the Caen Gwla are you running a Paladin? Cause on my PoTD with an outworn buckler at about level 10 they can only land grazes and by 12 miss most of the time.

 

I agree to a point on PoTD I think it’s better to disable

And kill them to rely on saves. EXCEPT for a Paladin he can eat disables like crazy and either graze or they will miss entirely even on PoTD. This is late game about lvl 12 and on.

I'm using Pallegina, yes she's using the Outworn Buckler. I'm about level 10/11 I believe. I didn't notice her suffering a graze instead of a hit but it's possible.

Ya you can get hit from time to time then but you still reliably graze as a Paladin for sure. After 12 forget it you can eat attacks and they will just graze or miss

Ok. But then I'm thinking: my paladin isn't paralyzed, great. But the rest of my party is. So the best strategy is still to cast the immunity spell. So... it's still rather pointless ;-)

It’s micro but I just separate my Paladin pop him out of stealth and he eats all attacks at the start I buff the rest of the party and everything dies. *shrug* i guess this only really matters in fights where I seperate the tank cause I don’t want the party eating dragon breathes or bad ccs it’s not for ever fight.

 

*shrug*

 

 

Hmm, good strategy.

[KDubya]

In PoE my team with a Juggernaut Monk, Pelegrina, Kana and Devil would have good enough saves to just face tank charmers on PotD. never had a priest so never used the immunities.

 

I'd expect in DeadFire that good saves will work just fine. Plus with the new spell system there is no guarantee that your priest will have the correct immunity spell, maybe you took a different spell or maybe you don't even have a priest.

 

Fighters don't inherently have worse will saves than anyone else except for paladins who have +20 to all due to Deep Faith.

 

In my experience on beta PotD enemies target the guy with the worst defense. If that is your super min maxed Harbinger of Death melee god then the rest of your team is in peril of getting splatted. Not dumping a defense and grabbing additional protection like Vigorous Defense or Iron Will or the +20 affliction defense can make a big difference between getting crit or getting missed/grazed.

 

Duration wise a standout ability like Disciplined Strikes is 15 seconds. With my typical 15 Intellect I get 18.75 seconds and three uses will last 56 seconds. To match that with a 3 Intellect Moron you'd get 9.75 seconds per cast and need 5 casts to get to 49 seconds. That saves two discipline points that can be used for something like Vigorous Defense to further harden your defenses.

 

In the case of Constant Recovery base duration is 45 seconds. My approach gets you 56 seconds and the Moron gets you 29 seconds. A tough fight, the ones where you want your regen, is going to last more than 30 seconds.

 

If you keep your Will save neutral by adding to Resolve you'd get -35% duration to afflictions and +7 deflection which might be a viable plan but you'll still suffer from short durations. 

 

Personally I'd rather get missed or grazed by an affliction instead of getting hit or crit with a -35% duration.

[Yosharian]

In PoE my team with a Juggernaut Monk, Pelegrina, Kana and Devil would have good enough saves to just face tank charmers on PotD. never had a priest so never used the immunities.

 

I'd expect in DeadFire that good saves will work just fine. Plus with the new spell system there is no guarantee that your priest will have the correct immunity spell, maybe you took a different spell or maybe you don't even have a priest.

 

Fighters don't inherently have worse will saves than anyone else except for paladins who have +20 to all due to Deep Faith.

 

In my experience on beta PotD enemies target the guy with the worst defense. If that is your super min maxed Harbinger of Death melee god then the rest of your team is in peril of getting splatted. Not dumping a defense and grabbing additional protection like Vigorous Defense or Iron Will or the +20 affliction defense can make a big difference between getting crit or getting missed/grazed.

 

Duration wise a standout ability like Disciplined Strikes is 15 seconds. With my typical 15 Intellect I get 18.75 seconds and three uses will last 56 seconds. To match that with a 3 Intellect Moron you'd get 9.75 seconds per cast and need 5 casts to get to 49 seconds. That saves two discipline points that can be used for something like Vigorous Defense to further harden your defenses.

 

In the case of Constant Recovery base duration is 45 seconds. My approach gets you 56 seconds and the Moron gets you 29 seconds. A tough fight, the ones where you want your regen, is going to last more than 30 seconds.

 

If you keep your Will save neutral by adding to Resolve you'd get -35% duration to afflictions and +7 deflection which might be a viable plan but you'll still suffer from short durations. 

 

Personally I'd rather get missed or grazed by an affliction instead of getting hit or crit with a -35% duration.

 

> In my experience on beta PotD enemies target the guy with the worst defense. If that is your super min maxed Harbinger of Death melee god then the rest of your team is in peril of getting splatted. Not dumping a defense and grabbing additional protection like Vigorous Defense or Iron Will or the +20 affliction defense can make a big difference between getting crit or getting missed/grazed.

 

Alright so that just means it's a better strategy to go for immunities, since buffing your defenses just means the enemy will ignore your character and charm some other character instead.  Those defenses count for nothing if the enemy just charms someone else: you still end up with someone charmed.

 

> Duration wise a standout ability like Disciplined Strikes is 15 seconds. With my typical 15 Intellect I get 18.75 seconds and three uses will last 56 seconds. To match that with a 3 Intellect Moron you'd get 9.75 seconds per cast and need 5 casts to get to 49 seconds. That saves two discipline points that can be used for something like Vigorous Defense to further harden your defenses.

 

Only two points?

 

That doesn't sound great, honestly.

 

Considering that the moron gets to put 12 points into other attributes such as Dexterity, Resolve...  I think the moron comes out on top.

 

> In the case of Constant Recovery base duration is 45 seconds. My approach gets you 56 seconds and the Moron gets you 29 seconds. A tough fight, the ones where you want your regen, is going to last more than 30 seconds.

 

Counter-argument: in a tough fight, Constant Recovery won't do ****.

 

> but you'll still suffer from short durations

 

My point is, you can work around the short durations, and the benefits are sizeable.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Yosharian

[KDubya]

When you only have five points of Discipline to spend per encounter, saving two of them is huge.

 

Constant Recovery gets you like 3.1 health per second with a 21 Might. In that tough fight that's another 84 health regened. It looks pretty useful to me especially if you are trying to have good defenses in conjunction with the regen. 

 

If you dump Intellect without matching with Resolve you have a crap Will defense which will cause issues. If you do keep your Will neutral you're just trading duration of abilities for some affliction reduction and some deflection. I wouldn't do it with a Fighter but a Rogue might be a contender for a Moron since I don't think they have many long duration abilities. Perhaps a Blackjacket would benefit with that approach as they lose out on the Regen anyway which is the biggest concern with a low duration.

 

The good thing is that the question isn't black and white, it really does depend on your specific build and playstyle which speaks well of the character design in the game.

[Boeroer]

With things like Clear Out you want high INT, too. But since the AoE formula for INT is weakened and stuff like Knockdown doesn't cause a disable anymore I'd also say that INT is less useful in Deadfire for fighters and in general. But I wouldn't dump it either.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Boeroer

[George_Truman]

Are there still team immunity spells? From what I saw the priest spells were altered and only affect 1 fella at a time

 

Also correct my math if I'm a dummy but the new system punishes dumping worse (in terms of aoe)

 

-6% radius per point * 7 = -42% radius ≃ -66% AoE

 

-10% AoE per point = -70% AoE (hope I didn't mess that one up)

 

as opposed to pumping

 

+6% radius per point * 7 = +42% radius ≃ +100% AoE

 

+10% per point = +70%

Edited April 5, 2018 by George_Truman

[Yosharian]

Are there still team immunity spells? From what I saw the priest spells were altered and only affect 1 fella at a time

 

Also correct my math if I'm a dummy but the new system punishes dumping worse (in terms of aoe)

 

-6% radius per point * 7 = -42% radius ≃ -66% AoE

 

-10% AoE per point = -70% AoE (hope I didn't mess that one up)

 

as opposed to pumping

 

+6% radius per point * 7 = +42% radius ≃ +100% AoE

 

+10% per point = +70%

 

its not radius in deadfire, its area