Naval battles (or whole pirate part) avoidable?

[Boeroer]

Sigh.. come on guys

 

Obsi add a fantastic new mechanic and you just wanna skip it, I just don't get the mentality here

 

You hate pirates (not even pirates, sailors, nothing forcing you to be a pirate) and/or ships soooooo much that you just can't bear the thought of participating in it?  You hate fun or something?

 

I despair I truly do

Did you actually try it in the beta? It's debateable if that mechanic is "fantastic". 

 

Or is this just some "I didn't try it, but come on, the company is nice so why shouldn't we praise everything they do although you don't really like it" statement?

 

I like Obsidian, I like Josh (well, the parts I know of), I like PoE, I like CRPGs, I like to give feedback if I'm asked for and I really don't like the ship stuff (yet - maybe it gets better). So there's my feedback - bear with me.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Boeroer

[Tanos]

I sure hope they will not force non-skippable ship battles in order to access non naval combat content. Two ship battles was enough to make me never want to do another ship battle again. I found the combat too un-intuitive (What parameters should determine what the best course of action?? Why can't i move in the same direction two turns in a row? When can i use the cannons?) and it's way, waaay too tedious. During the second naval battle there was but a single thought echoing in my head: get me out of this screen, get me out of this screen, i don't care just get me out of this screen, get me out of this screen, why won't you let me out of this screen, get me out of this screen, Yet i was forced to play through the mini-game anyway. Much of the bother can (iam sure) be attributed to my lack of understanding of whats actually going on, yet i think that most people will find such a repetitive system far to tedious to play through over and over. The system would have to be a major overhaul of the system addressing both of these issues(lack of clarity and repetitiveness) for me to ever willingly go through it again.

Iam also not fond of the resource management of the ship that seems to be forced upon the player (water,food,repair....) and would much rather combat encounters or such limit my exploration than my management skills and the size of my wallet.

I don't mind that those things are there per se, my great bother is that these new systems appears to be forced upon the players whether they like it or not despite not being part of the core game.

[Yosharian]

 

Sigh.. come on guys

 

Obsi add a fantastic new mechanic and you just wanna skip it, I just don't get the mentality here

 

You hate pirates (not even pirates, sailors, nothing forcing you to be a pirate) and/or ships soooooo much that you just can't bear the thought of participating in it?  You hate fun or something?

 

I despair I truly do

Did you actually try it in the beta? It's debateable if that mechanic is "fantastic". 

 

Or is this just some "I didn't try it, but come on, the company is nice so why shouldn't we praise everything they do although you don't really like it" statement?

 

I like Obsidian, I like Josh (well, the parts I know of), I like PoE, I like CRPGs, I like to give feedback if I'm asked for and I really don't like the ship stuff (yet - maybe it gets better). So there's my feedback - bear with me.

 

 

My point was less about constructive feedback (which OP didn't give) and more about 'can I skip game content?' which I don't think is constructive.

[Yosharian]

 

Sigh.. come on guys

 

Obsi add a fantastic new mechanic and you just wanna skip it, I just don't get the mentality here

 

You hate pirates (not even pirates, sailors, nothing forcing you to be a pirate) and/or ships soooooo much that you just can't bear the thought of participating in it?  You hate fun or something?

 

I despair I truly do

If I'm looking for pirate/ship RTS game I will purchase game with this content.

If I'm looking for game like BG, IWD, POE, I hate deal with RTS.

 

I think make these minigames optional is good way for everyone. Or not?

 

Surely a better way is to make the game content better rather than make it skippable.

 

What about people who don't like the combat?  Better make that skippable.

 

What about people who don't care to read?  Better make all the dialogue skippable (and I don't mean just skipping ahead, I mean literally no dialogue options/consequences - there are plenty of people who are put off by having to read dialogue in games, let's appeal to them too).

 

What about people who don't like creating a character?  Better make it so that there are pre-built characters that level themselves.

[wahmann1]

 

 

Sigh.. come on guys

 

Obsi add a fantastic new mechanic and you just wanna skip it, I just don't get the mentality here

 

You hate pirates (not even pirates, sailors, nothing forcing you to be a pirate) and/or ships soooooo much that you just can't bear the thought of participating in it?  You hate fun or something?

 

I despair I truly do

If I'm looking for pirate/ship RTS game I will purchase game with this content.

If I'm looking for game like BG, IWD, POE, I hate deal with RTS.

 

I think make these minigames optional is good way for everyone. Or not?

 

Surely a better way is to make the game content better rather than make it skippable.

 

What about people who don't like the combat?  Better make that skippable.

 

What about people who don't care to read?  Better make all the dialogue skippable (and I don't mean just skipping ahead, I mean literally no dialogue options/consequences - there are plenty of people who are put off by having to read dialogue in games, let's appeal to them too).

 

What about people who don't like creating a character?  Better make it so that there are pre-built characters that level themselves.

 

I agree that it should not be skippable, but I think "close and board" should be an option that skips through an entire round and gets you as close as possible to the other ship, with the assumption you prioritize, primarily, speed and, secondarily, defenses would be a reasonable option. Also, "flee" to escape as quickly as possible. 

 

Also, reputation hopefully results in different options, such as the ability to close peacefully to chat, whether in a diplomatic or deceptive fashion. Other impact could include sailing someone else's ship (if the enemy captain is smart enough to know of the previous owner), hoisting certain colors (to announce yourself or to go for deception, and at some distance the enemy captain can figure out who you are; the better you are at reputation/diplomacy/deception, the closer you get before combat breaks out, if it breaks out at all. 

 

I seriously hope they allow cannons to be loaded with different ammo, as opposed to using different cannons to fire different ammo. I think the option to load round shot, canister shot, or grapeshot would be cool. Plus the option of using lagrange ("junk shot") if you ran out of cash. I think the chance of round shot hitting crew should be dramatically reduced (round shot almost never hit crew irl) and the damage to rigging should be small; canister shot should do no damage to hull and relatively little to rigging, but lots to personnel (it was used to clear the deck before boarding); grapeshot should do decent damage to rigging and personnel, but little to hull. Cannoneers should automatically target the appropriate part of the ship if they have the skill (round to the hull, canister to the crew, grape to the rigging). With a cannon proficiency, maybe your companions could act as crew and fire chain shot as a modal with reduced range, but which does high damage to both the hull and rigging. I expect none of this will happen, though, because of the clutter different types of ammo will cause. 

 

I'd also like to see a "long nine" that can be used to fire at range and without doing a broadside. 

[Attronach]

 

 

Sigh.. come on guys

 

Obsi add a fantastic new mechanic and you just wanna skip it, I just don't get the mentality here

 

You hate pirates (not even pirates, sailors, nothing forcing you to be a pirate) and/or ships soooooo much that you just can't bear the thought of participating in it?  You hate fun or something?

 

I despair I truly do

If I'm looking for pirate/ship RTS game I will purchase game with this content.

If I'm looking for game like BG, IWD, POE, I hate deal with RTS.

 

I think make these minigames optional is good way for everyone. Or not?

 

Surely a better way is to make the game content better rather than make it skippable.

 

What about people who don't like the combat?  Better make that skippable.

 

What about people who don't care to read?  Better make all the dialogue skippable (and I don't mean just skipping ahead, I mean literally no dialogue options/consequences - there are plenty of people who are put off by having to read dialogue in games, let's appeal to them too).

 

What about people who don't like creating a character?  Better make it so that there are pre-built characters that level themselves.

 

Well, you are probably one of ppl who like have everything in one but nothing good enough.

 

If you buy TV, you probably want from TV to have integrated microwave oven and small fridge. And of course mobile phone...

 

When I buy something I wish I have exactly what I want. I will not buy weapon If I need clean garden. I will not buy car If i need watch TV....

 

You wrote "My point was less about constructive feedback (which OP didn't give) and more about 'can I skip game content?' which I don't think is constructive."

 

You are wrong. Making some aspect in game optional IS constructive. And why? Because there already a lot of (Almost) same options. Difficulty option, AI option, and yes even graphic option.

Because you think everyone like some aspect in game (like megagigasuper graphic quality with bilion shadows or super cool naval battles), that not mean everyone else HAVE TO share your opinion.

 

My personal feedback is constructive - make this thing optional for who don't like mix RPG with RTS. All what offer you is forcing content to everyone w/o care how much they like it.

[Attronach]

What about people who don't like the combat?  Better make that skippable.

You can turn AI ON .

 

What about people who don't care to read?  Better make all the dialogue skippable (and I don't mean just skipping ahead, I mean literally no dialogue options/consequences - there are plenty of people who are put off by having to read dialogue in games, let's appeal to them too).

Dialogues are part of RPG game which PoE2 is. If you don't like read then naval combat is good option to you.

 

What about people who don't like creating a character?  Better make it so that there are pre-built characters that level themselves.

You can use random feature. Again Character (stat wise) is part of RPG game like PoE2.

 

I don't know if you mean this seriously. Character creation, dialogues and combat system is part of every good game like PoE2. I'm really lost why you mix together base game elements with extraneous thing like naval combat/battles.

[Wormerine]

Well, you are probably one of ppl who like have everything in one but nothing good enough.

 

If you buy TV, you probably want from TV to have integrated microwave oven and small fridge. And of course mobile phone...

 

When I buy something I wish I have exactly what I want. I will not buy weapon If I need clean garden. I will not buy car If i need watch TV....

 

You wrote "My point was less about constructive feedback (which OP didn't give) and more about 'can I skip game content?' which I don't think is constructive."

 

You are wrong. Making some aspect in game optional IS constructive. And why? Because there already a lot of (Almost) same options. Difficulty option, AI option, and yes even graphic option.

Because you think everyone like some aspect in game (like megagigasuper graphic quality with bilion shadows or super cool naval battles), that not mean everyone else HAVE TO share your opinion.

 

My personal feedback is constructive - make this thing optional for who don't like mix RPG with RTS. All what offer you is forcing content to everyone w/o care how much they like it.

I think @Yosharian has a point, though I might not agree with an attitude he is presenting it with. Games are created as an entire experiences, they shouldn’t be chopped to bits and made into a buffet. Different game systems should interact, support and complete each other, not be a series of seperate mini games. That is clearly an idea for ship system in Deadfire - it players into exploration, economy, resting system, reputation system. Being your primary source of transportation it should be rather important. Whenever ship systems are good enough to fulfill that role is up to discussion. Asking for it to be seperated from the main experience seems detrimental to the overall game. Statement: “it wasn’t in other games I liked” is understandable, but it is not “the other game you (we) liked”. It’s Deadfire - ship is central to the setting and, it seems, gameplay.

 

As far as “gameplay choices”: I suppose there is no harm to give customers and option to not play the game they buy, but i always found difficulty setting and “skip” option questionable. It’s a bit the same to me as the recent trend of “we allow you to buy lootboxes to skip through gameplay” - gameplay is either fun, or it is not. If it’s not fun, it should be improved, and if it is - you shouldn’t skip it. It’s like asking to skip a storyline in a movie - you shouldnt be able to and you should not want to skip it. Than again, I am in favour of respecting work you are consuming - don’t talk during movies, read book in quiet space, give your attention to games. Of course, it does me little harm if someone puts on a good movie in their private home and yaps over it, so sure, disable ships if ya want.

[Gfted1]

Cant combat be skipped by playing in Story Mode?

[Attronach]

It’s like asking to skip a storyline in a movie - you shouldnt be able to and you should not want to skip it. Than again, I am in favour of respecting work you are consuming - don’t talk during movies, read book in quiet space, give your attention to games.

This will be good point if there wasn't BUT...

You watch movie usualy w/o skipping BUT if there is some kind of comercial or someone tell you "now stop watching and start reading. Next 20min of story will be only available in written form".

 

So  you got movie, but you have to read part of story from book if you want catch  the point of whole movie.

If someone tell me, this movie isn't whole available as movie, part you have to read as book  what do you think?

Yes you are right - I can live w/o this movie (say you can't read or you hate reading because your eyes are bad).

 

Back to game reality

I haven't problem wait till game release (even I'm really very eager to play it NOW) and wait for some review about naval part of game (forced content wise).

And if I see what I don't like just skip this whole game. One annoying trifle can kill fantastic game (movie, book, any product...).

[theBalthazar]

Sigh.. come on guys

 

Obsi add a fantastic new mechanic and you just wanna skip it, I just don't get the mentality here

 

You hate pirates (not even pirates, sailors, nothing forcing you to be a pirate) and/or ships soooooo much that you just can't bear the thought of participating in it?  You hate fun or something?

 

I despair I truly do

 

 

I don't want skip it because it is new / different of a CRPG or TRPG. Trully.

 

But actually this mini-game/additionnal gameplay is awful. Not satisfaying. Everybody say that. I observe Obsidian's forum all days. Nobody tell this is fantastic. If it's really bad at the launch date of the game, critics will come down to stop the game. "Sadly, the biggest novelty does not bring anything, it is boring." "Apart from the multiclass, nothing new under the sun"

 

It is unfortunate that this phase is not interesting. I would like it to be.

But precisely, when you like something, you have invest on this project, you must tell the truth. Otherwise everyone is an ostrich. (Perfect Obsidian ! No default ! keep on going !)

Edited February 21, 2018 by theBalthazar

[DexGames]

[Wormerine]

 

It’s like asking to skip a storyline in a movie - you shouldnt be able to and you should not want to skip it. Than again, I am in favour of respecting work you are consuming - don’t talk during movies, read book in quiet space, give your attention to games.

 

This will be good point if there wasn't BUT...

You watch movie usualy w/o skipping BUT if there is some kind of comercial or someone tell you "now stop watching and start reading. Next 20min of story will be only available in written form".

 

So  you got movie, but you have to read part of story from book if you want catch  the point of whole movie.

If someone tell me, this movie isn't whole available as movie, part you have to read as book  what do you think?

Yes you are right - I can live w/o this movie (say you can't read or you hate reading because your eyes are bad).

 

(...)

 

One annoying trifle can kill fantastic game (movie, book, any product...).

I do think you are right. A mechanic, which takes you away from the fun part of the game, or doesn’t fit with the whole experience can negatively impact a game. Ship mechanics in Deadfire can be that thing. Bat mobile in Arkham Knight was for many people that thing. Fin and Rose subplot in Last Jedi was for me that thing. Still, I would argue that all of those are necessarily for the intended experience and none of the can be just cut out, but they need to be good and engaging rather than skippable.

 

As far as your previous analogy to ship combat being like a commercial or tacked on product. I disagree that this is a case. If it doesn’t work (and I am not sure about it yet - it might work, it might not, I feel like I haven’t seen enough of it to fully form my opinion.) it won’t be because it doesn’t fit the game, but because it was poorly executed. One of the things I think they nailed is that it does fit cRPG style. Ship to ship combat is presented in a way of tabletop RPG or a scripted interaction. It doesn’t strike me as a feature not fitting rest of a product. All of the ship elements have a potential of interacting and enhancing the core dungeon crawling experience. Therefore, I will agree with Yosharian - let’s keep talking about way of improving it, rather than demanding skipping it.

[morhilane]

In the beta you can also just not steer your ship into the other one on the world map but simply steer around it.

 

However, the annoying resource managing for ship and crew (morale and food and water and stuff) was always present when sailing around. Can't say if you can switch that off.

 

I doubt you can switch it off, but Josh said that the party was enough to crew the starter ship and I don't think they have a moral/supplies cost.

 

Saying that, not crewing the ship probably means ignoring all the ship related features outside moving around on the map too.

[wahmann1]

 

In the beta you can also just not steer your ship into the other one on the world map but simply steer around it.

 

However, the annoying resource managing for ship and crew (morale and food and water and stuff) was always present when sailing around. Can't say if you can switch that off.

 

I doubt you can switch it off, but Josh said that the party was enough to crew the starter ship and I don't think they have a moral/supplies cost.

 

Saying that, not crewing the ship probably means ignoring all the ship related features outside moving around on the map too.

 

Do you have a link of Josh saying the party can crew the ship?