Balancing Casting Ciphers with Strength/Resolve

[FlintlockJazz]

I have been wondering how the Might to Strength change would affect Ciphers as it was going to be one of my first playthroughs, but as I am not in the beta I do not have any hands-on experience with how its all working and so didn't feel I could comment much on it.  I will however be following threads like this to see what I can glean from the skulls of those who have been, so don't take a lack of posting from me on this as a lack of interest keep on posting (on topic).  The Jazz will be watching you...

[Raven Darkholme]

Honestly tho if Strength is multiplicative in PoE2 it might just be smarter to use powers only for CC and selfbuff, which in result would mean you only need Str and IN and no Res.

Even in PoE1 I mainly use the cipher that way with the exception of Silent Scream which got way too op after the buff.

I think the Soul Blade's Focus Release sounds like it is a lot too my liking, but is it affected by Res/Str or no attribute at all?

If you mced it with a barbarian, would the raw damage be released via carnage or single target?

[MaxQuest]

Honestly tho if Strength is multiplicative in PoE2 it might just be smarter to use powers only for CC and selfbuff, which in result would mean you only need Str and IN and no Res.

Even in PoE1 I mainly use the cipher that way with the exception of Silent Scream which got way too op after the buff.

Yeah, soulblade aside, the following 3 directions come to mind:

- 17/7/17/17/17/3: cc-oriented cipher

- 17/7/17/3/17/17: aoe-power damage-oriented cipher, (with an awkwardly low PER)

- 18/10/18/10/3/19: beam-oriented cipher (provided that echo duration is still not affected by INT)

 

But currently these are quite behind the Soulblade, so why play them? And if Soulblade gets nerfed, the question would be: why play cipher? They can hardly compete with the current monsters like dw paladin/berserker in terms of total damage at the moment.

 

I think the Soul Blade's Focus Release sounds like it is a lot too my liking, but is it affected by Res/Str or no attribute at all?

If you mced it with a barbarian, would the raw damage be released via carnage or single target?

I know that the damage from Soul Annihilation depended on current focus, might and hit quality (graze, hit, crit) in Beta1. Haven't played with ciphers in Beta2 yet.

 

As for interaction with carnage: Soul Annihilation damage would be delivered only to main target.

On the other Blast from Citzal (unlike in PoE1) now seem to deliver on-hit effects, and Soul Annihilation will hit anyone in it's AoE.

It was found and reported by Boeroer here.

[Raven Darkholme]

Oh, beams are still in PoE2?

I didn't even count them to the spells I use all the time, since it's pretty much self explanatory especially the 10 focus one which I keep up at all times at least in solo play. :D

 

Hm, if Soul Annihilation has AoE now, then I like it even more, you're right the question might arise why to play another cipher, especially with the better scaling off Str for both melee and SA.

 

Don't have access to the beta and won't spoil myself too much with vids/forum, but always interested in my fav class cipher, it's pretty much guaranteed they will be my choice for first pt (prolly mced tho)

[SaruNi]

 

Hm, if Soul Annihilation has AoE now, then I like it even more, you're right the question might arise why to play another cipher, especially with the better scaling off Str for both melee and SA.

 

 

That's only with Citzal's Spirit Lance.

 

The Beguiler subclass is supposed to be able to gain focus by using Cipher Deception powers on any enemy vulnerable to Sneak Attack, so a pure caster cipher may be doable, but last I read that was bugged.

 

For a pure ranged weapons cipher, Ascendant lets you use Soul Whip even at full focus without having to use any powers. Its soul whip does 10% less damage but gets a +20% damage bonus at full focus. However it takes a lot of damage (about 200 with biting whip) for Ascendant to get to full focus and if you're at full focus for 5 seconds you lose all focus.

 

Shortening casting times, increasing focus gain, improving a few durations, and fixing bugged powers (Tactical Meld fast cast for +accuracy, Pain Link, etc.) might be enough. Also make it so Mind Blades doesn't do 10% less damage per jump target, so that increased power level (from Ascendant's +3 power level at max focus, or from empower) is more useful.

 

Once the fast-cast accuracy bonus works, and other buffs have shorter casting times (ciphers have resolve and strength buffs), the stats won't be such an issue. (If that seems too OP for multi-class then like the fast-cast +accuracy spell---which currently doesn't work at all---make it the fast-cast buffs higher level.)  

Edited January 12, 2018 by SaruNi

[SaruNi]

To make focus gain less dependent on strength, but still dependent on attacking with weapons... but without favoring fast weapons or blunderbuss too much over slow weapons... one option would be to give a flat +focus/second for something like 5 seconds after every weapon attack, but that doesn't stack with itself except to increase duration. If requiring it to hit still favors fast weapons too much it can just trigger on attack (your psychic will to attack causes you to focus or whatever). 

 

Instead of having Soul Whip damage scale with Resolve (the OP's suggestion), the focus gain from Soul Whip could scale with Resolve. With casting times reduced, if you want to do a DD caster cipher you can make a few comparatively wimpy attacks from low Strength but have the focus gain end up being the same or better. And weapon attacks take the place of what for wizards/druids/priests would be casting time.

Edited January 12, 2018 by SaruNi