theBalthazar Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Hello, Today, analysis of Paladin. There is a new rule in this game compared to POE1 : each point spend can ben spend to another class (eventually = if you multiclass) So balancing is much more important. here is my opinion, totally subjective, on Paladin. ACTIVE ABILITIES Sworn ennemy Awsome ability. I like the change. Why ? Because before, in POE1, we were doing one action for less than equivalent of a hit with a looong recovery. Now with almost instant effect, this debate is over. Great decision Obsidian. Proposal : Perfect like this. Flames of devotion One of the best tools of Paladin. A sure valor. Proposal : Perfect like this. Lay of hands Good but suffer of strength / resolve split. Only 5 seconds. Its ok, but without benefit. A little bit long 4.5 seconds (Cast time + recovery) for 20 HP under 3 meters... hum. Proposal : A little boost of heal, 30 HP ? Zealous aura A classic for paladin. good idea to bring all three together. +5 accuracy for all the team is a must-have. For me endurance is ok but not crazy on each party member. Charge is the lol aura : p Perhaps interess the game with a better bonus ? Proposal : Charge, little boost of dexterity. (Like +2) Glorious beacon Ok I don't understand this concept. 2 zeal... You give 6 seconds of your life : p for 4 seconds of effect. 1.5m is a halo of little candle. Nobody will take that. Proposal : range 3m Duration 5 seconds. Liberating exhortation A good tool for suspend hostile effect. Good deal. Proposal : Perfect like this. Reinforcing exhortation A good tool again, with deflection and resolve. Very fast. Proposal : Perfect like this. Sworn rival / Brand ennemy Sworn rival suffer of the comparison of Mark of the prey wich is better in all. But, overall, sworn rival stay solid and effective (refound cost of power source is anyway awsome). Brand ennemy (few burn damage overtime) is ok for defensive gameplay but ineficient with an agressive team. Personnaly I prefer widely sworn rival. Proposal : Brand ennemy, Same Paladin's order in the team take partially advantage of the effect for 8 accuracy 10 % damage (so effects / 2 for them) Shared flames / Eternal devotion Shared flames can be better if all your crew is near the paladin (at least 2). If not eternal devotion is better. A solid option. Worth it 100 %, one or the other. Proposal : Perfect like this. Greater lay of hand / Hand of light If you use Lay of hand it is for HEAL. : p So Greater lay of hand is better in all the case. Resolve and concentration is good but... less important than +heal +armor +constitution. A non-choice... Proposal : Hand of light : increase range for him, to distinguish it from its competitor Exalted focus First ability completely useless. 5 % hit to crit is a joke. No worth it at all. Nobody will never take this ability. During this time, with the Fighter... Proposal : Focus, 4 accuracy (5 now). Exalted focus, 10 % hit to crit and 6 accuracy Exalted charge 10 % hit to graze. Total cost : 2 abilities. For ? +25 % stride, defense of disengaging and this ? 20 % hit to graze seems better. 20 % of 1/4 of possibilities (Miss/Graze/hit/crit) is nothing... Proposal : Charge, +2 dexterity +25 % Stride and 15 defense disengaging. Exalted charge, 20 % hit to graze and +4 dexterity, and the rest. Exalted endurance I will never take that BUT I admit that it may be the least worse. +3 HP all 3 seconds can be useful (or not : p) Proposal : Endurance, +1 armor. Exalted endurance, +2 armor and 3 PV all 3 seconds. Enduring beacon / Inspired beacon When Inspired beacon is a "little too much" crazy, enduring beacon is OK but weird. can be very interresting with a little more radius. If not you target ennemies or allies ? Proposal : More range is needed if enduring beacon must be used on allies and ennemies. Reduce inspired beacon at 30 % damage but 5 seconds rather than 4. PASSIVE ABILITIES Retribution Perfect, logical, nothing to tell. Proposal : Perfect like this. Deep faith Same here, a big and convincing bonus. Proposal : Perfect like this. Divine purpose You learned the lesson from the weak defensive amounts of POE1. good work. Proposal : Perfect like this. Inspired defenses A little bit limited. One type of defense, only 3 seconds... It is ok but I think that can be improved. Proposal : up to two types of defense ? Inspiring triump Perfect for me. 10 sec for a correct boost on all the team. Good enough. Proposal : Perfect like this. Aegis of Loyalty WTF... Only unarmed is pretty restrictive objectively speaking. I did not have the opportunity to test it but if it fits the description : bad. Proposal : remove the obligation "unarmed". Clear head / Mental fortress / Iron gutt Perfect. A little resistance. Clear and effective. Proposal : Perfect like this. Inspired path I think it is a good deal BUT... I think at the end of the game, this will become less useful. Perhaps add a complement. Proposal : add a bonus in resolve. Like +3. (Zeal = your determination etc.) Righteous Soul Immunity to poison. Always useful. Good deal. Proposal : Perfect like this. ------------------ you too can give your opinion on abilities and spells. I will do others classes, or maybe not, according to time and desire !^^ Peace ! Edited January 9, 2018 by theBalthazar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) I remember Liberating exhortation can be target self in PoE 1, but now it's ally only But I think it is too earlier to balance class abilities. Edited January 8, 2018 by dunehunter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Totally, this topic is only here for give your opinion on various evolutions until full game !^^ (necessarily partially subjective and incomplete) Full balance is impossible until the release of the game. And indeed, I think liberating exhortation should be for each allies target (include himself) Edited January 8, 2018 by theBalthazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Totally, this topic is only here for give your opinion on various evolutions until full game !^^ (necessarily partially subjective and incomplete) Full balance is impossible until the release of the game. And indeed, I think liberating exhortation should be for each allies target (include himself) Ok Then my opinion on these abilities are: Lay on hands feels ok to me, since in PoE 2 healing is more important than in PoE 1, the heal amount is pretty good if u have high Res. Zealot charge is ok because the speed of characters are nerfed in last patch. Glorious beacon is currently a crap ability, I believe anyone who picked it once will never pick it again. My suggestion is making it a Blinding aura, give it like 10 second duration and blind enemy around every 3 second. Aegis of Loyalty should be turned to PoE 1 style, but perhaps devs think the Aegis + Sacred Immolation combo is too OP? No idea here. I like Inspired Path, for classes with limited power resource, +1 power is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Subbing thread. "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) BARBARIAN -> ACTIVE ABILITIES Barbaric yell Was bad in the first... Always bad. 3 seconds of recovery... Cone effect (not perfect to touch everybody) It is a shout and a bad ability... Proposal : 0 recovery. It is a shout and not extremely powerful... Frenzy Classic and effective Proposal : Perfect like this. Barbaric blow Excellent ability EXCEPT the cost in rage. Totally absurd. Not as strong as you think. No reason to spend 2 pts. Proposal : Cost of 1 rage point. Wild sprint Slightly too short for the cost. Will be exceeded by moult superiors inspirations. (level 1 of dexterity...) Proposal : 8 seconds. Savage defiance Great and powerful. level 3 of constitution inspirations fort 15s. Very good. Proposal : Perfect like this. Barbaric Roar / Barbaric shout Two bad choice. +3 engagements during 30s not enough attractive (why not 10 engagements ? : p). For roar, knock down is bad since prone is just an animation time. All of this for 2 abilities points... Proposal : Barbaric roar, Stun for 4 seconds - Barbaric shout, +1 penetration +1 armor (against those affected by the scream) +2 ennemy engaged for 15 sec. Blood frenzy / Spirit frenzy Two bad choice again. I always take base frenzy and never this. Why ? Because blood frenzy = 4 raw damage. Spirit frenzy = -5 strength for ennemy. Not crazy for an ability point. Proposal : Blood frenzy, raw damage on hit (4 raw damage is not crazy so...). Spirit frenzy, remove the deflection malus !^^ (Spirit = control) + stay with staggered Barbaric smash / Crushing blow Not totally crazy, because you must kill the target with this hit precisely (if not : no effect and all is lost), but... sufficient. Proposal : Perfect like this. -> PASSIVE ABILITIES Weapon focus Indispensable. Free accuracy. Proposal : Perfect like this. Blooded I'm not an absolute fan of this ability because under 50 % I heal. BUT, it do the job. Proposal : Perfect like this. Fast runner Nobody will take this ability. I Prophesy. Problem is : stride... defense against engagement.... not attractive Hum... Proposal : Dexterity +3 when your health is >= 90 % (Idea of : Healthy = Good physical condition = run fast = bonus of dexterity. Under 90 %, the bonus disapear). Thik skinned Engagement +1 armor against physical damages. Ok but nothing more. At the limit of the useful. Proposal : Perfect like this. Accurate carnage It is good except that now, carnage is much less powerful so... good but not essential. Proposal : This ability transforms actual raw damage in old system of POE1. 66 % of actual damage for foes in range. Eventually nerf at 50 % if it is too much. Wilder hunter Exotic but useful. Proposal : Perfect like this. One stands alone Since there not a necessity of engagement (good change of POE1, memories : p), this ability is much more useful for C.C. team. Very good. Proposal : Perfect like this. Bloodlust Again, a great option. No comment. Proposal : Perfect like this. Bloody slaugther 20 % hit to crit / 50 % crit damage. On the paper, this is crazy. But in reality it is just ok. When your target have 25 % of his life, its a dead man walk. So not incredibly useful, but ok for bosses. Proposal : Perhaps 30 % hit to crit. Unflinching Incredible. Problem : Paladin have 3 abilities separated for 3 resistances. Here 1 ability for 3 resistances. So.... Nerf Barbarian or Buff the paladin ? My proposal will be orange BUT with an idea. Proposal : Paladin AND Barbarian : 2 resistances in each ability. 3 is a bit too strong. For me, it is one or two. Perhaps two to mitigate. Interrupting blows Interrupt on crits. Good for me. Proposal : Perfect like this. Edited January 9, 2018 by theBalthazar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) FIGHTER ACTIVE ABILITIES Disciplined barrage ^^... One of the best ability of the game. Not necessarly this first form : p But we talk to that a bit later...^^ Here there is already sufficient bonuses. +5 perception and +50 graze to hit 15 sec. Deal. Proposal : Perfect like this. Knock down Perhaps one of the worse investment of the game. Knock down becomes a poop animation. I would not want to say wrong things, but it during like what ? One second ? barely ? The time of the animation ? Holy crap... Proposal : At a minimum -if we stay with this system- start by doubling the time of fall and the time to get up. But I disagree the choice of kill prone effect like this ! Fighter Stances Like Paladin, three possibilties. It is a good idea to create a package. If conquerer stance is my favorite, mobs stance is great. The last is Guardian... too light for me. +3 ennemies engaged... With the bonus of deflection of conquerer stance, you compensate partially the flanking malus. So Guardian stance is not sufficient. Two others are great. Proposal : +1 armor against all engaged ennemies. Into the fray Basically I do not find this ability interesting. Dazed is not particulary crazy. In an other hand, upgrade is very good. But for me, this is a racket. All or nothing. We can imagine -3 penetration now, and -8 after (10 is too much for me...). Here, all the interrest is in the second version. Proposal : -3 armor of ennemy for the base version and only 1 discipline power source in the first version. 2 points with upgrade. Vigourous defense Good job, good values. No problem. Proposal : Perfect like this. Unbending Good job again, except the COST of the thing. 3 point seems to be irrationnal. It is good indeed, but not 3 points. Proposal : 2 Disciplines points only. With good resolve ~10 HP per 3 sec, good but not crazy. So 3 pts is too much. Disciplined strike / Tactical barrage One of theses two ability IS one of the best ability of the game. Instant cast ability and +50 % hit to crit. Sadly it is difficult for tactical barrage to resist against that. Nerf is possible for disciplined strike, except if we consider this is the trump card of the Fighter. And there is a problem : often x to y (hit, graze etc) have a little number (exalted endurance, you hear me ?) so 50 % hit to crit is VERY GOOD, but not insanely good. This is insane combined to others things. A nerf at 40 % is possible, but, the result will be the same overall. We must nerf at 30 % to begin to mitigate the result of the performance. And I think Obsidian buff Fighter because in the first Pillars, It was one of the worst character. Here, often on the top for many players. this is his place because he is 'limited' = specialized. Perfect for a melee which is not as variable as a wizard. It's subjective, but I adhere to his superiority. It is good for the meta-game. If not, we have a simple warrior, often mono-target... A small dominance in his niche is normal. Proposal : While waiting the final game, No change for now. Mule kick Lol 3 disciplines... WTF. Joke of the year : p Proposal : +10 accuracy +20 % damage, Full attack. 1 discipline point. More longer animation time (like base ability). Lower their guard Like said above. I think there a problem here. Nerf is needed. Not a big, but still a nerf. -10 armor guys. It is a bit huge... Proposal : -8 armor. Guardian stance+ Why all the bad spells and abilities have prone ? : p Disengaging and prone. Really bad when you think of the cost of 2 abilities points. Ok, there 2 others stances, but this is not a reason. Proposal : +30 % damage on disengaging. Mob stance+ Good. +5 % recovery each mob. Nothing to add. Proposal : Perfect like this. Conquerer stance+ +10 accuracy. Best general stance of the 3. Mob stance is more specific. Perfect. Proposal : Perfect like this. PASSIVE ABILITIES Two handed style Globally good, but I think 20 % is better now. Proposal : +20 % damage with two handed weapons. Weapon and shield style Works for me. Proposal : Perfect like this. Two weapons style Excellent ability ! My favorite style actually. Works with much combo (monk, druid etc.) Proposal : Perfect like this. One handed style Don't work for me. I think an accuracy bonus is better. 20 % miss to graze... is VERY bad. Once you have a good accuracy (often the case with fighter) = end of this ability. +this is only 20 % So not crazy. +There are a lot of abilities witch can transform all misses to grazes. So, this style is a very VERY bad deal. Proposal : 6 accuracy for one handed style. (in addition to the basic effect already effective !) Confident aim 50 % Grazes to hit. Much better thanks to the number, and because hit and grazes are two categories not cancelled. (contrary to "misses") Proposal : Perfect like this. Determination +20 defense against 3 afflictions. Good. Proposal : Perfect like this. Arms bearer +1 slot. Not sufficient for me. Proposal : Add recovery when the character change his weapon. Yes it encroaches on the black jacket and/or quick switch, but If not, I find it useless : p Rapid recovery 7 Health per 3 secs. So actually Add +2 health. It is not enough. Proposal : Base core, 5 health, like now. Rapide recovery, 8 health. Hold the line +1 ennemy engaged. I prophesy : Nobody will take that. Especially with the +2 and +3 ennemies engaged dragging everywhere. Proposal : +1 ennemy engaged. +10 % on Deflection and Fortitude. If you have 50 deflection = 5 pts bonus. 100 = 10 pts bonus etc. Body control / Fearless / Unstoppable Same problem as before with Barbarian and Paladin. So we have to choose. One, two or three. But we cannot choose different rules for each classes. For equivalence. Multiclasses = choice... Proposal : Smooth the proposals for all classes. Quick switch For me, It must be merged with arms bearer. It's not worth much. Proposal : Merged with arms bearer. Weapon specialization +15 % damage. A sure valor. No problem. Proposal : Perfect like this. Armored grace Same here, A -20% recovery is always nice. Proposal : Perfect like this. Superior deflection I will quibble. Proposal : +5 deflection (: p so +1 compared to now) Edited January 9, 2018 by theBalthazar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Did you miss two weapon style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yes ! I correct that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) I personally think the best way to balance class abilities is to use the math model similar to here https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/95571-a-simple-heuristic-to-compare-the-relative-value-of-ressources/ But of course the relative value in the link is an estimation and is not accurate. Using relative value to balance passive abilities is more convincing Edited January 9, 2018 by dunehunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madscientist Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 suggestion for knockdown: Make it a full attack with +2 penetration and interrupt. Right now its a normal attack that interrupts, wich is bad. Mule kick might be useful if the CC effect was longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 BARBARIAN -> ACTIVE ABILITIES Barbaric yell Was bad in the first... Always bad. 3 seconds of recovery... Cone effect (not perfect to touch everybody) It is a shout and a bad ability... Proposal : 0 recovery. It is a shout and not extremely powerful... Druid bear form has a much better active ability, Terrifying Roar. Frightened in a radius of 5m around caster. If Barbaric yell can be a radius instead of cone I think it would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 It used to be in PoE. Don't know why they changed that and then made a circle for the bear. It's ok if they wanted to have consistency with all shouts (look at the invocations that are also animated like shouts) - but then the bear is an oversight. I would have liked all shouts to stay circle-shaped. Cone is kind of lame for somebody who wants to be in the fray (like most barbs want to because of circle-shaped carnage). 1 Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Also it’s not like the people behind you couldn’t hear the shout—sound propagates in all directions if there are no physical obstacles for the sound wave... "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndiraLightfoot Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 BARBARIAN -> ACTIVE ABILITIES Barbaric yell Was bad in the first... Always bad. 3 seconds of recovery... Cone effect (not perfect to touch everybody) It is a shout and a bad ability... Proposal : 0 recovery. It is a shout and not extremely powerful... AndreaColombo is absolutely correct, there's no reason to this yell being a cone effect. Well, also, try shouting at the top of your lungs immediately after you've just yelled your lungs out. Some recovery is needed 0.5-1s. 1 *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) MONK > ACTIVE ABILITIES Mortification of the soul Cast time of 0.8 is sufficient. I think this is not strong enough to wait 2 seconds with recovery. Proposal : 0 recovery. Force of anguish What ? What is this ? You push, with a primary attack... for 2 wounds ? Fortunately, the monk has other qualities. There is a racket here because the upgrade propose just a reducing cost of wound. But it is not interresting in the two cases... Proposal : Primary attack. Add 20 % crush damage. (Push effect) Swift strike Wouaho. THE ability of the monk. Proposal : Perfect like this. Dance of death Satisfactory. I hesitate with the cost of mortification... but, it is "ok". Proposal : Perfect like this Blade turning Ok for me. Proposal : Perfect like this. Torment's reach It is a good option but you can do a double kick (google : double roundhouse kick). This is 3 wounds, so a big amount. 1) So full attack is possible. 2) For me, it is strength and not resolve (aoe effect). wide debate but I'm only giving my opinion...^^ Proposal : Full attack + Strength is the reference statistic. Apart from that, the ability is ok. Stunning blow Good enough, just that the cost of mortification is too high. It is only one target and for 6 seconds... Proposal : 1 mortification. Clarity of agony Good tool. Proposal : Perfect like this. Duality of the mortal presence Good concept. Modal, no spend. Proposal : Perfect like this. Thunderous blows 20s. Level 2 of strength inspiration for only 2 wounds = crazy. Proposal : Perfect like this. The long pain Pretty effective. Perhaps 3 wounds rather than 4. Because if you have wounds, you are generally already in melee and 4 wounds is a bit huge. Proposal : 3 wounds max. Wave of force If we consider my previous improvements (force of anguish)... 1 wound is now great with 20 % of crush damage. Proposal : Perfect like this. Lightning strikes / Swift flurry An indispensable of the monk. One or the other. With very high accuracy and hit to crit, swift flurry seems to be better. But Lightning strikes is also awsome... So... Proposal : Perfect like this. Clarity of mind Only level 1 of intelligence inspiration... for 20s. Perhaps not enough. Indeed, there is the case of barbarian (6 sec for level 1 dexterity inspiration) BUT this is only one point of ability, not two like here... (global cost) And it is instant ability. Here this is not the case. Proposal : 1.5 secs of recovery (Against 3 now) Often you need of this ability quickly, then react quickly. The dance continues Excellent idea. Proposal : Perfect like this. Raised torment Stun all the ennemies behind the target = crazy. Proposal : Perfect like this. Stunning surge Refound if critical hit. Good. Proposal : Perfect like this. > PASSIVE ABILITIES Bull's will / Snake's reflex / Bear's fortitude For me 15 is a better approach now. Because many abilities give 5 accuracy. On an other hand, we have 4 defenses. So, 5 x 4 = 20. 15 seems to be a good number. It is only my opinion. Proposal : +15 will / +15 fortitude / +15 Reflex Lesser wounds Good deal Proposal : Perfect like this. Graceful retreat Without doubt the worst ability of the game ? +12 defense against Disengaging. No comment. Proposal : +20 defense against disengaging +25 reflex for 8 secs after a disengaging attack. Long stride +25 % stride only. Hello graceful retreat We are in the same classroom ? Proposal : +25 % stride -50 % of the malus of recovery when you move. Soul mirror 50 % of ranged attack reflected... But only the misses. [Edit, Thanks to Boeroer] Proposal : Misses and Grazes are reflected. Routing pain Since there no more DR substraction, this ability regains its nobility. We can grunt against resolve, but here it is more logical contrary to a physical kick. Proposal : Perfect like this. Crucible of the suffering Good concept, good numbers. Proposal : Perfect like this. Enervating blows I think it is a good deal. Not crazy but good enough. Proposal : Perfect like this. Edited January 10, 2018 by theBalthazar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 You know that only 50% of misses get reflected with Soul Mirror, right? Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 True ! I correct that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFutral Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 BARBARIAN -> ACTIVE ABILITIES Barbaric yell Was bad in the first... Always bad. 3 seconds of recovery... Cone effect (not perfect to touch everybody) It is a shout and a bad ability... Proposal : 0 recovery. It is a shout and not extremely powerful... AndreaColombo is absolutely correct, there's no reason to this yell being a cone effect. Well, also, try shouting at the top of your lungs immediately after you've just yelled your lungs out. Some recovery is needed 0.5-1s. I guess that depends on if Yell is a natural ability or a supernatural ability. I prefer a supernatural ability, but an argument can be made for a natural ability. I agree that cone is an unnecessary nerf. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) RANGER > ACTIVE ABILITIES Marked prey I think there is a bug here. Originally, Marked prey is only +20 % damage. Now it is more interresting than sworn ennemy with more range and better upgrade + pet can enjoy it... Proposal : Supress accuracy of marked prey or down to +5 accuracy +20 % damage (nerf). Wounding shot A incredible ability. Full attack. Overtime damages. Proposal : Perfect like this. Take down Was good in POE1. Now... Its not bad... but I will never take this ability... Prone is awful and it is the primary attack of the... pet. Proposal : +10 accuracy +15 % damage for the maneuver. Heal companion Total of 6 seconds for 20 heal per 3s. (total 40) We enter here for the first time in the debate of the attack speed. I think it's a lot, for the effect in question, especially for 2 bonds... It is not totally bad, but... Proposal : 2 seconds cast time / 3 seconds recovery. It is an emergency : so for 2 bonds, must be more quick than the majority of traditionnal attack speed. Evasive roll Good job. Proposal : Perfect like this. Concussive shot OMG. What is that ? Interrupting them ? Primary attack ? Only 10 accuracy bonus ? Balthazar, give us a better suggestion, now ! Proposal : Primary attack. 10 accuracy. Hit to crit 40 % (Attack on head...= risk). (spirit of this ability = ONE attack and you aim the head) Bindings roots Could have been nice. Sadly 3 bonds. WTF. Proposal : 1 bond. Master call's White fang ! Come back ! *I have to rest 3 secs after screaming so much.* Proposal : No recovery. Marked for the hunt If you concede the nerf of the base version. We have here a good concept. As long as we don't do barrel hunt : p Proposal : Perfect like this. Hobbling shot / Accurate wooding shot Choice between a poor effect for 6s (affliction level 1) and +20 of accuracy. I hesitate... : p Proposal : Hobbling shot, add -10 in all defenses during 6s. Indirectly less than 20 accuracy BUT ! On 6 seconds !... Takedown Combo / Brutal combo I had a hard time seeing the true gain of 100% Damage taken in the log. First attack yes (there is an indication), but the next attack witch is increased ? So I don't understand... If it is 100 % for the next attack for all the team, it is crazy. Atm I think there is a bug ? Penetration is also very good. So it is ok for me. Proposal : Perfect like this. Hardy companion Hardy for 6s, with 6 seconds of cast time+recovery... No. Its not enough. All of this for 2 abilities points... Proposal : Increase at 10s all the effects with this improved version, in addition to hardy inspiration. Evasive fire Seems to be pretty OP on the paper with high...attribute... ? Yes mister at the back of the class ? "Strength sir ?" surprise interrogation band of bad students, it is resolve : p Proposal : For me, personnally, a shot is a shot. even a random hit. It is strength. > ACTIVE ABILITIES Faithful companion 2 resistances. A good compromise. Proposal : Perfect like this. Merciless companion 30 % damage with affliction. Proposal : Perfect like this. Vicous companion 15 % damage 2 penetration. Good deal. Proposal : Perfect like this. Resilient companion 2 armor. Good improvement Proposal : Perfect like this. Marksman We have a condition. So if we have an aura with 5 accuracy, conquerer stance at 5 etc. All of this is without conditions... There must be a superior bonus. Proposal : 6 accuracy. (Was 5. not crazy, but slighty superior) Protective companion + Stalkers' Link +1 engagement only, for the first (protective). Oh no. This is not sufficient. There is here a racket : you must pay twice for stalkers link (this is true... : p) Proposal : Merged with stalkers link. Shot on the run Good idea. I will just add a little bonus otherwise I'm afraid no one will take it, despite that. Proposal : if you are naked, or with a light armor : +3 of perception. (I run lightweight etc.) Gunner A bonus against reload time. Good. Proposal : Perfect like this. Predator sense Was 50 %^^ Big nerf since POE1 ? ^^ I allow myself to go up to 40% because pets not ultra-efficient in POE2 beta... Proposal : 40 % damages for the pet when there is damage overtime. Defensive bond Often there was a good choices from Obsidian on the subject of defenses.. Notably start at 15-20 otherwise the bonus is not felt. Here only 10... It is not sufficient. Proposal : 15 against area of effect attacks. (It is only one type of attack = area of effect. Paladin have 20 against afflictions, I'm not too high...) Strengthened bond Upgrade of defensive Bond. 15 only (absolute gain : +5...). So I propose a modification. Proposal : 20 against area of effect attacks + Resistance to resolve afflictions, under 4 meters for both. (Mental side of the connection between both...) Driving flight Excellent ability. Proposal : Perfect like this. Edited January 10, 2018 by theBalthazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunehunter Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 If torment reach is a full attack like it is in PoE 1, a Monk can just dump Dex and spam full attack like they do in PoE1. I think that’s the reason devs nerf it to primary attack. Even tho the updated version is really powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 They also changed it because you would be gimping yourself if you took a two hander. Full Attack was too powerful in PoE in my opinion. Also because the cone doesn't care at all about the damage of the weapon. So a slow heavy hitter was the worst choice while two fast hitting weapons were perfect. I like this change - and I'm a big fan of the PoE monk. Too bad Turning Wheel is not there anymore. Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) ROGUE -> ACTIVE ABILITIES Escape Good deal for 1 guile. Proposal : Perfect like this. Crippling strike One guile for +20 penetration [if it is not a bug...]. So a certitude to do +30 % of damage. Good deal ! Main attack of Rogue. Tips : Not crazy at the end of the end. Because there is no others effects, and if you crit and gain +50 % penetration and you would have naturally had the bonus of x1.3 = no real effect of crippling strike... Proposal : Perfect like this. Smoke veil Invisible for 2 guile and short cast time. Deal. Proposal : Perfect like this. Blinding strike 10 accuracy and blinded only. No damage boost... Problem here, the cost is 2 guile. Too high for the effect. So there is two ways : 1) Stay like this but down to 1 the cost of guile. 2) Stay at 2 guile but increase the damage of 25 % (like POE1). Ideally, crippling strike has already the role of "little attack with 1 guile". So... Proposal : Stay with 2 guile. +25 % damage. Finishing blow Good but not at 3 guile. No. Proposal : 2 guile. I notice with the rogue, there is a lot of 2 / 3 guile... But not necessarily justified... Strike the bell 3 guile WTF ? 2 penetration and a little effect... I missed something in this ability ...? Again, a great incomprehension in terms of guile. Proposal : 1 guile, no more... For me, when we speaks about hit in the head, I add also 30 % hit to crit. (less than concussive shot of Ranger, because here this is a full attack and there is additionnal effect) Withering strike 3 guile ? Yes again...^^ For 10 accuracy and a "ok effect" only... Proposal : 2 guile and +25 % damage. (+10 accuracy and the effect obviously) Arterial strike / Debilitating strike Arterial strike is far better if it is not a bug. The DPS overtime is insane. [EDIT Thanks to Boeroer] only works when there is movement. Debilitating strike is far less interresting. Not worth it. Proposal : Debilitating strike, Perception affliction+1 (level 2) Dexterity affliction+1 (level 2). So MORE than Hobbled and distracted... Arterial strike, effect concern move (like now) AND the effect works if the victim suffers of 2 afflictions (if not this is too restrictive). Gouging Strike / Confounding Blind During this time, with brand ennemy, we have same effect in better... Confounding blind is very good. The increment of malus 3 by 3 is awsome. But gouging strike must be boosted. Proposal : Gouging strike, 5 raw damage per 3s. We are not the paladin here, but a rogue... Shadowing beyond / Shadow step Lol, the running gag. So 3 guile... ?^^... No I refuse. Invisible is ok but 3 guile is too much. Paralysis is great indeed. But one target and only 6 secs... This is not possible... Proposal : Down to 2 guile. (Already Enough... I'm not far to down to 1...) Smoke cloud Add Distracted and cancel the first effect of the ability !? What ? Perhaps a bug... but for now. Not worth it. 2 ability points for that, and 2 guile. No... Proposal : Invisible + Intargetable for 6 sec + A smoke circle of 4.0m (distracted) AND Same cast time than the base version (you don't pay for worse : p) Devastating blow / Eliminating blow Except for the initial cost of guile (same problem than base ability), this seems to be ok for the differents effects. +50 % damage and frightened effect seems to be good. Proposal : Perfect like this. Break the bell / Ring the bell / Pierce the bell I think there is a lot of bug for this 3. Pierce the bell doesn't work for me except the two initial penetration points (+2). So, I do not say anything for now, but it does not seem to be at level... Proposal : ? -> PASSIVE ABILITIES Defensive roll Good little tool. I buy it. Proposal : Perfect like this. Backstab Base of the base with a rogue. Proposal : Perfect like this. Snake's reflex Same debate than previously. I think 15 is a better value. Proposal : +15 reflex. Dirty fighting Not so strong, when you know the true percentage (10% of 1/2 until 1/4). And if we must replace this in view of all of classes... (Fighter etc.) Proposal : +20 hit to crit. Riposte Base of a rogue again. Proposal : Perfect like this. Deep pocket I never been a big fan of this. I think and prophesy : nobody will take that. So a boost is required. Proposal : +2 slots. +3 constitution (you can keep more stuff : p It is difficult to found a logical additionnal bonus...) Persistant distraction Excellent. But you kill all abilities above like smoke cloud etc. Proposal : Perfect like this. Adept evasion 100 % graze to miss. Incredible. Proposal : Perfect like this. Deep wounds Free +raw damages. I buy it. Proposal : Perfect like this. Side note : it is not a criticism, since it is a beta, but the rogue gives the impression of being really unbalanced at the moment (The worst until now). Especially for all the power source cost (Guile) Edited January 10, 2018 by theBalthazar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theBalthazar Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 If torment reach is a full attack like it is in PoE 1, a Monk can just dump Dex and spam full attack like they do in PoE1. I think that’s the reason devs nerf it to primary attack. Even tho the updated version is really powerful. Yes but you must have 3 wounds ? You must not wait for the enemy touch the monk ? (In POE1 I wasn't a big fan of monk, so I do not know any of his secrets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaColombo Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 The real bummer about Torment's Reach is that it uses RES for damage. Why on earth would it use RES? It's a physical attack; you literally stomp your enemy's face with your boot using a Chuck Norris-style roundhouse kick. I still advocate a return to MIG but if the current STR/RES split is kept, Torment's Reach should use STR. "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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