As it turns out, summoned weapons will take a -10 Accuracy penalty from the Devoted subclass unless the correspondent proficiency is taken even though their description clearly states that they are universal:

 

 

Similarly, the Devoted's bonuses don't apply to summoned weapons unless the correct proficiency is chosen.

 

Two issues with this approach:

 

• There are weapons like Kalakoth's Minor Blight that don't correspond to any proficiency, so it's impossible for the Devoted to be proficient with them.
• If you want to play a Devoted/Conjurer who focuses on summoned weapons, you must select a specific type of summoned weapons beforehand. Staff is the only summoned weapon type available from the get-go; if you want a pike, you must wait until past 10th level to get a summoned one (Citzal's Spirit Lance, unobtainable by a multiclass in the beta.) If you want a bow, assuming the black bow is still a thing in Deadfire, you must wait even longer. So basically you're strong-armed into choosing the staff and ignoring other summoned weapons if you're a Devoted.

 

Also it doesn't make a great deal of sense to state that these weapons are universal if they actually aren't I believe the assumption here is that if you've conjured up the weapon yourself with your magic, you're proficient in its use? Shouldn't this apply to the Devoted as well?

Additional feedback on summoned weapons:

 

They should probably be fast cast spells.

 

Right now they all have a casting time of 6 seconds, which is the longest and an unnecessarily tedious drag. Even with a DEX score of 20, which brings casting time down to 4.2 seconds, by the time my Conjurer's done summoning a weapon the rest of my melee guys are done moping the floor with my enemies.

 

If a Conjurer's to be effective in combat by focusing on his summoned weapons, it shouldn't take half as long to summon them.

*Shrug* It does kinda make sense to me though.

 

I mean, i think it would be really stupid if you could completely ignore the Devoted's penalty by using "universal" weapons of different types.

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

Edited December 3, 20178 yr by AndreaColombo

*Shrug* It does kinda make sense to me though.

 

I mean, i think it would be really stupid if you could completely ignore the Devoted's penalty by using "universal" weapons of different types.

 

You would only be able to use the summoned staff and later the summoned pike. I don't think that is going to break the game in some way

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

Yes, but that is not my point at all. Besides, no ranged weapon proficiency applies to Kalakoth's Minor Blight that I know of.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94650-devoted-and-universal-weapons/?p=1954036

 

have tried to get developer response a couple times in a couple different threads.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Hey AndreaColombo and all,

 

We're doing a lot of working on Devoted currently as it is causing a lot of issues with its debuff, especially when it comes to multiclass or summoned weapons. I'll add this info to the bugs we have open currently

 

Thanks!

 

You the best,

 

-Caleb

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Aren't priest and druid able to summon weapon too? Firebrand, Priest spiritual weapons.

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Wish the Devoted bonus would apply to the Ogre Clubs. They're clubs, after all... and once Might is turned to Strength and decoupled from Magic damage, given the need to split a Devoted/Ogre Transmuter's stats between Strength and Resolve/Intelligence they could use a boost to compensate (especially since Transmuters lose access to Enchantment spells for self-buffs)... also Barbarian/Transmuter could benefit from barbarian bonus to accuracy with proficient weapons.

 

For the Blights, you think there should be a "Proficiency: Tossing Blights" that grants some sort of modal? Maybe "Proficiency: Throwing Stuff"....

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by SaruNi

 

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Aren't priest and druid able to summon weapon too? Firebrand, Priest spiritual weapons.

 

 

Yes, and proficiencies / Devoted work with them. Too bad none of them iirc have special variations on their weapon type's modal.

 

Hopefully for Conjuror/Devoted they'll be able to respec (including the Devoted proficiency) after reaching whatever level grants them the Pike summons. Another thing to look forward to....

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by SaruNi

 

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Aren't priest and druid able to summon weapon too? Firebrand, Priest spiritual weapons.

 

Yes, so if you go priest/wizard you have many options but basically no active combat abilities and not-great stats. Or you can go priest/fighter or wizard/fighter, and have a very tiny selection of weapons available in either multiclass combination.

 

 

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Aren't priest and druid able to summon weapon too? Firebrand, Priest spiritual weapons.

 

Yes, so if you go priest/wizard you have many options but basically no active combat abilities and not-great stats. Or you can go priest/fighter or wizard/fighter, and have a very tiny selection of weapons available in either multiclass combination.

 

 

You'd really miss "Into the Fray" and "Mule Kick" that much (those iirc are the only active fighter abilities we have so far)? For stats, Conjuror still gets access to Enchantment and Priests and Druids have lots of self-buffs. 

 

There could be additional conjure weapon spells in grimoires. (Maybe even summon weapon scrolls.) Druids will probably get a version of that "throwing rotting exploding skulls" spell from PoE 1 too.

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by SaruNi

 

 

 

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Aren't priest and druid able to summon weapon too? Firebrand, Priest spiritual weapons.

 

Yes, so if you go priest/wizard you have many options but basically no active combat abilities and not-great stats. Or you can go priest/fighter or wizard/fighter, and have a very tiny selection of weapons available in either multiclass combination.

 

 

You'd really miss "Into the Fray" and "Mule Kick" that much (those iirc are the only active fighter abilities we have so far)?

 

It's better than sitting there and autoattacking non-stop?

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Aren't priest and druid able to summon weapon too? Firebrand, Priest spiritual weapons.

 

Yes, so if you go priest/wizard you have many options but basically no active combat abilities and not-great stats. Or you can go priest/fighter or wizard/fighter, and have a very tiny selection of weapons available in either multiclass combination.

 

 

You'd really miss "Into the Fray" and "Mule Kick" that much (those iirc are the only active fighter abilities we have so far)?

 

It's better than sitting there and autoattacking non-stop?

 

 

You can still turn the weapon modals on/off to toggle their advantages and disadvantages. "Into the Fray' isn't weapon-related at all, and while Mule Kick does rely on a primary attack, from a rp perspective it really has very little to do with the weapon. If you're a Wizard, you get spells like Expose Vulnerabilities, all the self buffs, the debuffs, etc... though if you want to debuff with your weapon modal iirc the only options are Eothas's Flail (-25 reflex for 10 seconds) and Skaen's off-hand club (-25 will for 10 seconds). 

 

Perhaps worth noting that Devoted isn't as good with Magran or Skaen because their summoned weapons are dual-wield (Magran pistol and sword, Skaen stiletto iirc and club).

 

As reach weapons, the staff and pike gain strategic interest through positioning and moving around (plus there's the "immunity to engagement" from Deleterious Alacrity of Motion"). With the staff's modal your turning it on to improve your defense and turning it off for offense, and with the pike's modal you're turning it on to lower your enemy's deflection (-10 deflection for base 10 seconds on hit) and off to improve your damage... so there's plenty to actively micromanage.  

 

Btw if Ogre Clubs are treated as Clubs and gain the modal---the image of an Ogre clubbing people to lower their Will defense is kind of hilarious. In a good way....

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by SaruNi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's a point I understand, but then a proficiency should exist for Kalakoth's Minor Blight and most summoned weapon types should be available from level 1 so you're not strong-armed into choosing staves

 

From the description, isn't the Devoted iirc supposed to only be able to to be proficient in one melee weapon, and nothing else?

 

So the current "bug" is that the Devoted can currently get multiple weapon proficiencies, and can be proficient in ranged weapons....

 

No, the problem is that if you want to play a devoted who relies on a summoned weapon, you're forced into choosing staffs, because that's the only summoned weapon available until level 10. Even as a straight fighter, with no subclass, you *only get staff weapon until level 10*.

 

I'd *REALLY* love various types of summoned weapons added to the game with different effects; I'd dearly adore playing a fighter/mage who uses summoned weapons and self-buffs.

 

 

Aren't priest and druid able to summon weapon too? Firebrand, Priest spiritual weapons.

 

Yes, so if you go priest/wizard you have many options but basically no active combat abilities and not-great stats. Or you can go priest/fighter or wizard/fighter, and have a very tiny selection of weapons available in either multiclass combination.

 

 

You'd really miss "Into the Fray" and "Mule Kick" that much (those iirc are the only active fighter abilities we have so far)?

 

It's better than sitting there and autoattacking non-stop?

 

 

You can still turn the weapon modals on/off to toggle their advantages and disadvantages. "Into the Fray' isn't weapon-related at all, and while Mule Kick does rely on a primary attack, from a rp perspective it really has very little to do with the weapon. If you're a Wizard, you get spells like Expose Vulnerabilities, all the self buffs, the debuffs, etc... though if you want to debuff with your weapon modal iirc the only options are Eothas's Flail (-25 reflex for 10 seconds) and Skaen's off-hand club (-25 will for 10 seconds). 

 

Perhaps worth noting that Devoted isn't as good with Magran or Skaen because their summoned weapons are dual-wield (Magran pistol and sword, Skaen stiletto iirc and club).

 

As reach weapons, the staff and pike gain strategic interest through positioning and moving around (plus there's the "immunity to engagement" from Deleterious Alacrity of Motion"). With the staff's modal your turning it on to improve your defense and turning it off for offense, and with the pike's modal you're turning it on to lower your enemy's deflection (-10 deflection for base 10 seconds on hit) and off to improve your damage... so there's plenty to actively micromanage.  

 

Btw if Ogre Clubs are treated as Clubs and gain the modal---the image of an Ogre clubbing people to lower their Will defense is kind of hilarious. In a good way....

 

Yes, if you're a fighter you get Into the Fray and other abilities. If you're not, you don't. You buff, summon your weapon, and then autoattack, at most switching on a modal once or twice...provided the fight is still ongoing when you're done summoning. And the fact that you *have* to do this with a staff for ten levels if you want to be a fighter/wizard who relies on summoned weapons *sucks*. Yeah, staffs have advantages, but it sucks *having* to use staffs. It sucks not being able to choose from a varied selection of weapons, but instead getting one weapon type for ten levels (if wizard) or two weapon types (if Priest).

 

Look, the Parasitic Staff is nice, but by level 9 I'm both *bored as hell* and have spent all this time checking out the cool, varied array of weapons everybody whose not me get's to use.

To add my .02:

 

Re: Ogre club

 

IMO it should be treated as universal like other summoned weapons; that should make the Devoted automatically proficient with it. Alternatively, it could be tied to the existing Club proficiency, although I believe the other solution makes more sense in the context of what amount to a shapeshift.

 

Re: Kalakoth’s Minor Blight

 

I don’t necessarily advocate for the creation of a proficiency for this spell in particular. I’m also not interested in a modal to go with it, seeing as the majority of modals in Deadfire have been extremized into uselessness. IMO this spell, like other summoned weapons, should be universal and therefore consider the caster always proficient in its use. A Devoted would gain its class perks and not incur the Accuracy penalty.

 

Alternatively, if the devs implemented an unarmed proficiency (as has been requested multiple times), the spell could go with it—but it would be a subpar solution compared to the other.

 

Re: multiclassing

 

If I’m having a problem with Devoted/Conjurer, telling me I can play a Priest/Conjurer isn’t really a solution or even a topical answer

 

I chose Devoted because I want bonus penetration (which summoned weapons are sorely in need of, especially when multiclassing and therefore trailing behind in power level), I want Disciplined Strikes, and I want Armored Grace and Weapon Specialization. A Priest can’t get me those.

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by AndreaColombo

I just had a paladin/wizard and summoned the Parasitic Staff while dual wielding two swords with my half-sword modal on: I kept the modal and it worked with the staff (giving me +2 penetration). Bug or feature?

Edited December 5, 20178 yr by Boeroer

am gonna disagree 'bout making the devoted proficient with all universal/soulbound weapons.  at the same time, we believe the devoted's penalties for not being proficient should be suppressed when using a universal weapon.  should work similar for priests and mages with summoned weapons.

 

if bob the devoted/barbarian finds The Morningstar Of Ultimate Doom, a soulbound weapon, and equips it, he should get the benefits o' appropriate weapon talents w/o gaining the actual proficiency.  can't use the morningstar to reduce fort saves, but bob shouldn't face the penalty for use 'cause his devoted weapon is the sabre. also, am thinking bob shouldn't gain the devoted's penetration bonuses for using proficient weapons when using the soulbound morningstar.  however, as with poe, weapon focus and other weapon talents should apply when appropriate.  if bob took one hand weapon style, it shouldn't apply to the soulbound morningstar.  converse, perhaps it would be appropriate to have bob's weapon focus talent for proficient weapons apply to universal/soulbound... is kinda a grey area. 

 

regardless, am thinking, at the very least, devoted penalties for non-proficient weapon use should be suppressed.  the benefits o' the devoted is excessive if they is applied to a wide range o' weapons, including all universals.  however, the developers is kinda working 'gainst the purpose o' soulbounds and universals if one need proficiency to get advantage to their use.  

 

am thinking priestly and wizard summons for non devoted should work similar to what we suggested 'bove for devoted.  don't provide the proficiency modal, but allow appropriate weapon talents to apply. a fighter/wizard or barbarian/wizard is likely to have weapon talents. apply such talents where appropriate, but do not provide the proficiency modal. 

 

but again, in spite o' the response from obsidian in this thread, am most curious to know how universal/soulbounds were intended to function in deadfire.

 

HA! Good Fun!

To add my .02:

 

Re: Ogre club

 

IMO it should be treated as universal like other summoned weapons; that should make the Devoted automatically proficient with it. Alternatively, it could be tied to the existing Club proficiency, although I believe the other solution makes more sense in the context of what amount to a shapeshift.

 

Re: Kalakoth’s Minor Blight

 

I don’t necessarily advocate for the creation of a proficiency for this spell in particular. I’m also not interested in a modal to go with it, seeing as the majority of modals in Deadfire have been extremized into uselessness. IMO this spell, like other summoned weapons, should be universal and therefore consider the caster always proficient in its use. A Devoted would gain its class perks and not incur the Accuracy penalty.

 

Alternatively, if the devs implemented an unarmed proficiency (as has been requested multiple times), the spell could go with it—but it would be a subpar solution compared to the other.

 

Re: multiclassing

 

If I’m having a problem with Devoted/Conjurer, telling me I can play a Priest/Conjurer isn’t really a solution or even a topical answer

 

I chose Devoted because I want bonus penetration (which summoned weapons are sorely in need of, especially when multiclassing and therefore trailing behind in power level), I want Disciplined Strikes, and I want Armored Grace and Weapon Specialization. A Priest can’t get me those.

 

If you were to change your bodily form into that of another person, would you automatically gain all their knowledge and skills? In most fantasy, the general answer is no. But if you changed your brain into the exact physical form of another, then their knowledge would be encoded in it... what about druid spiritshift? In part, animal abilities are seen as instinctive rather than learned skills. Are ogre club swings more like animal instincts or more like something learned? Could a skilled weapon wielder change into the body of an ogre and retain some of that skill? Also, with druids it's not just a shapeshift, it's a "Spirit" shift... druids have a deep spiritual connection their animal forms and the natural world that teaches them how to use their form's abilities.

 

Also, the idea of a Devoted being highly skilled in clubs and then changing into an ogre to wield them seems very cool.

 

The concept of the Devoted subclass is that you specialize in just one type of weapon, and get massive bonuses for that weapon, in exchange for penalties to all other weapon types. It seems like you just don't like the concept. You really just want a fighter who also has good penetration. 

The entire point of the Devoted is being a Fighter with good penetration. What is the point of universal weapons that aren’t universal?

 

I’m fine with removing the misleading universal tag, assigning a proficiency to Kalakoth’s Minor Blight, and leave the rest as is. Granted, if you leave the Accuracy penalty with summoned weapons, a Devoted/Conjurer is de facto strong-armed into choosing staves...

The entire point of the Devoted is being a Fighter with good penetration. What is the point of universal weapons that aren’t universal?

 

I’m fine with removing the misleading universal tag, assigning a proficiency to Kalakoth’s Minor Blight, and leave the rest as is. Granted, if you leave the Accuracy penalty with summoned weapons, a Devoted/Conjurer is de facto strong-armed into choosing staves...

disagree. the entire point o' devoted is you get big advantages with One weapon type.  should be disadvantages for using other weapons.  universal and soulbound shouldn't be a complete and obvious nullification o' devoted drawbacks.

 

am suspecting, once devoted is fixed, most folks choosing the devoted subclass is gonna opt for a weapon with multiple damage types.  sword does slash and pierce.  warhammer does crush and pierce.  choose a devoted weapon which only does one kinda damage type is gonna be quite painful when facing a foe with immunity or particular high armour vs. ______.  such a result is as it should be.  devoted benefits is big, so penalty should hurt. a soulbound or summoned weapon which do not provide devoted penetration bonus but nevertheless suppresses devoted accuracy penalty will still be o' great value to the devoted. strikes us as good balancing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Again, fine by me. Just remove the misleading “universal” tag from summoned weapons, since their proficiency is clearly not universal, and assign to them a specific proficiency that can be picked at character creation (currently there isn’t one for the Minor Blights.)