Spitballing: Accuracy, attributes and defences

[Lamppost in Winter]

Having 4 defences, all influenced by attributes, and only Accuracy targeting them has always bothered me, both mechanically and flavour-wise. I've often thought about what a system where different attributes also affect your ability to overcome different defences would look like.

 

Completely overhauling the system wouldn't be reasonable, or even desirable, given how everything is tied to Accuracy, but I think there's a way to have a system where Accuracy is diversified a bit.

 

I would suggest certain attributes give an Accuracy bonus, but only towards a certain defence. For example, Might give +accuracy against Fortitude, Resolve gives +accuracy against Will, etc. (using the old attributes system for simplicity's sake; the Strength and Resolve changes complicates this a bit).

 

A rough proposal of what it might look like:

•  Might: +Accuracy against Fortitude
•  Dexterity: +Accuracy against Reflex
•  Resolve or Intellect: +Accuracy against Will

Left out Deflection in this one for now because I'm not really sure what to do with it. Could just not have any particular bonus.

 

This, I think, would make attacking different defences a bit more interesting, and be a little more logical than the current system flavour-wise, e.g., a very intelligent or willful person is better at overcoming somebody's Will defence. Keeping everything tied to Accuracy would make this easier to implement in the current game (if it can be at all).

 

Problems I can see with this:

 

• Overcomplicates things - not much we can do about that, really, apart from clear explanations and tooltips
• Not much really makes sense as a bonus vs. Reflex, though total realism isn't the goal in the first place
• Inflation of defence numbers - might not be too big of a problem since at the very highest base attributes go to about 20
• Might being changed to Strength - with the new system, perhaps Resolve could instead target Fortitude for spells, while Strength remains targeting Fortitude for martial characters

 

[Climhazzard]

Things are already kind of complicated, especially with inspirations/afflictions to manage along with defenses.  Will saves probably make the most sense thematically to have a separate accuracy check, governed by resolve or something, but I don't see it happening with so many systems already in place that a player needs to keep track of.

 

Rather than having a single debuffer with high accuracy stat who has fortitude, reflex, and will debuffs, each of which they could use depending on which the enemy is weak too; you'd have to have someone specializing in each kind of debuff, and there's only 5 people in your party, so it's not like you have a lot of room for that when other roles like healer, tank, buffer, etc, are also necessary.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Climhazzard

[Lamppost in Winter]

It is probably overcomplicated, yes (I didn't even realise how much until I put it in writing). I would hope the difference from attributes is small enough that overall Accuracy is still more important, and having a high Might or Resolve or whatever is just a little extra, but I suppose it could run into inflation problems.

 

I was also thinking there could just be some mutually exclusive generic talents that give a flat bonus vs. a particular defence, kind of like a reverse version of the Superior Defence talents. Not exactly the same as what I'm suggesting in the OP, but adds a bit of variety.

[cheesevillain]

It is probably overcomplicated, yes (I didn't even realise how much until I put it in writing). I would hope the difference from attributes is small enough that overall Accuracy is still more important, and having a high Might or Resolve or whatever is just a little extra, but I suppose it could run into inflation problems.

 

You're idea is great on its own, but problematic in the context of a game that's already VERY complicated.  When there's a lot of modifiers on a stat, it becomes difficult to know exactly why the stat is the number it is, and each individual modifier feels less significant to the overall stat.

 

I was also thinking there could just be some mutually exclusive generic talents that give a flat bonus vs. a particular defence, kind of like a reverse version of the Superior Defence talents. Not exactly the same as what I'm suggesting in the OP, but adds a bit of variety.

 

 

I love this idea, and I really hope they put it in.

Edited December 1, 2017 by cheesevillain

[Wormerine]

Wasn’t it just like that in old D&D games (always have been powering through those without really learning systems so can’t tell).

 

It does make more sense, but it makes everything much more complicated. The question is, would it bring anything worthwhile gameplay wise? I don’t really see what it would add, except making things more convoluted.

[ShakotanSolari]

It does make more sense, but it makes everything much more complicated. The question is, would it bring anything worthwhile gameplay wise? I don’t really see what it would add, except making things more convoluted.

Agreed, these kinds of changes seem good in theory, but in actual practice the effect they have on game mechanics does not, in my opinion, warrant the added level of complexity that arises from their implementation. If anything I actually think the fact the Pillars uses a single accuracy stat for all attacks is one of it's better features, especially in Deadfire where multiclassing and hybrid builds are such a dominant feature - I want my character to be just as competent at swinging his sword as he is at slinging a fireball etc.

[Lamppost in Winter]

 

It does make more sense, but it makes everything much more complicated. The question is, would it bring anything worthwhile gameplay wise? I don’t really see what it would add, except making things more convoluted.

Agreed, these kinds of changes seem good in theory, but in actual practice the effect they have on game mechanics does not, in my opinion, warrant the added level of complexity that arises from their implementation. If anything I actually think the fact the Pillars uses a single accuracy stat for all attacks is one of it's better features, especially in Deadfire where multiclassing and hybrid builds are such a dominant feature - I want my character to be just as competent at swinging his sword as he is at slinging a fireball etc.

 

 

I also like the more universal stats system, like Might for all damage (RIP), so I can't really place why Accuracy vs. All defences bothers me so. Something about the defence system is fairly complex while the Accuracy system being simple rubs me the wrong way.

 

I think my preferred solution would be just a straight attribute contest, like Might vs. Fortitude (or even Might vs. Might), but that's another conversation for another game. This is more just brainstorming a way to graft that onto the existing systems.