My New Giant List of Suggestions

[lordcecil]

I made a few suggestions the other night and realized how much more there was to add to that list. So I made a new character to try and solo KOTOR, got two star maps before I decided I didn't like some choices, but in that time I compiled a pretty nice list. I've got them semi-organized, but its kind of hard to rank this kind of thing. Just know that this is not made for discussion or for anyone to disagree with me. This is more of a list for the devs to look over as a to-do list. The more they can implement the better the game will be. Its a little late in development for some stuff, but thats ok. Also note my old suggestions have been included here as well, for good measure.

 

 

***Delusions of Grandeur***

-More animations. At least three per feat (one for each level of flurry for example). When you advance to a higher tier still use the old animations, just make it random. Right now you see the EXACT same animation every time you attack if you just use feats (like you shuold)

 

-Evil path is lame, fix it. Too much random killing for no benefit. Fallout 2, thats an evil game, but you guys should know that, follow your past example. Working for slavers, marrying some ho you got caught sleeping with, selling ho to slavers, then killing the slavers for loot/money is evil in its purest form.

 

-Too often I do something and I don't know why. On Kashykkkhskahk I did the entire quest in the forest about killing the legendary monster and getting the blade stuck in its side before I had even heard about it. That kind of thing happens through the entire game.

 

-Side games should be important, challenging, and rewarding. Right now the only reward is money. First rework Pazaak like this. Each time you win the max bet increases (25->50->100->250->500 etc...), then each world the top player has a maximum that when you win your the champ of that planet. If you lose you have to start over. That prevents save/load/load/load/save repeat. When you become the champ on all planets you should get invited to a high stakes galactic tournament, that would be most excellent. It should be optional and the prize should be some newfangled item (special lightsaber crystal perhaps?). Swoop racing, ughh, it was better in SotE for the N64. Make it an actual race against people and follow the same champion everywhere/galactic tournament theory. Its good to have long time consuming OPTIONAL side-quests with big payoffs. Right now they are only another way to get money if you need it.

 

-Doubled bladed lightsaber is utterly useless. Very minor extra damage at the cost of two lightsaber crystals? No way! I propose you let it carry THREE crystals. If you add enough interesting crystals that do more than just +Attack/Damage then it could be a hard decision to put three in one blade or four split up in two blades. This could be tricky to balance but I think its doable. Other options include giving it a unique feat set (dueling/dual wield/staff would be the options then) with special inherent bonuses over dual wielding. Could also increase its minimum (not max) damage to 8 or 10. A more challenging approach would be letting it hit adjacent enemies so you spin around a whole lot, would be a good mob killing tool.

 

-Single wielding a lightsaber also sucks big time. +3damage/defense is worthless by the end of the game. Your going to have to increase those values to make it worth while. Perhaps some force powers could only be available if you have a free hand (lightning/grip/etc..) but that would be kind of lame and would piss everyone (including myself) off. It would make you decide between being an all out saber brawler or a force/saber combo though.

 

 

 

 

***Gameplay Balance/Changes***

-Bash should either work first try or not at all. Slashing a door ten times is boring. If your strength is high. Same for persuade and other stat rolls. In pen and paper you only get one shot so its ok to involve the roll of a dice. In a computer game if its possible to do something but you fail EVERYONE will just load/retry untill they suceed. nough then give a little prying open / melting lock / slashing lock animation. It would also be nice to see a special animation of someone trying to pry open a door/melt a lock or something aside the regular attack animation.

 

-Higher end grenades are too expensive. 750 for a plasma nade? 2000 for a thermal detonator (I think) Nice when your selling but thats far too much for a one time use item.

 

-Energy shields are useless right now. There are several potentially useful ones but they are used up far too quickly. Let them be rechargeable, fancier the shield the more energy cells it takes.

 

-Repaired droids are utterly useless. They are scattered throughout the game, rarely do much damage, and always die fast. Make them a bit stronger, have them follow the main character (as opposed to patrol), and let them follow you outside thier initial area. In theory you could have 4 or 5 following you, and that would be awesome. Since they die relatively fast anyways it won't unbalance the game, but it would be nice to try and get all of them in the game (unlock another easter egg if you get so many at once !!)

 

-Saber throw is kind of disappointing because when you throw it you get shot a whole lot by blasters. How about a third level that does a little bit more damage and lets you stop that incoming fire with your hand ala Darth Vader in ESB, that

would be incredibly cool or it could be an innate soldier ability (hand blocking blasters that is)

 

-Flurry is too good. An extra attack for -1 attack, -1 def at level 3? Don't decrease the defence penalty, leave it locked at 4 or 5. Then its more of a kamikaze style attack, and would be ok for those non-force users who wear armor and there is balance in the force once again.

 

-Power attack is worthless. +10 damage versus flurry which gives you another attack that is guarnteed to do more than that? No contest. Different feats should have different advantages, right now there are very clear 'best feats.'

 

-If combat is initiated immediately after combat again a tough boss then auto-save! (Just make it an option) Going through several minutes of dialogue only to immediately die is depressing.

 

-Take out 'You must gather your party before venturing forth.' This isn't BG2, allies can't be left in obscure locations to take advantage of the game, they follow you (albeit slowly when you use knight speed), has no reason to be left in.

 

-20 seconds is too short for force powers, how about 30? Anymore might be a bit much, but 20 is definately too short.

 

 

 

 

***Random Game Stuff***

-Cut scenes are lame, I don't want to see the ship flying onto or off a planet, show something exciting

 

-On Taris the side-thing where you help a dancer is abyssmal. Dancing in general looks reeeally bad. It could be fun little DDR-like easter egg though. Then if you go dancing on all the planets it can unlock DDR dance routines to the

 

classic music (Imperial March, Duel of the Fates, etc..) Easter eggs are good, and that would be absolutely

 

hilarious.

-Shiny aliens are good, take advantage of that more! They look exponentially better than regular textured critters.

 

-Party members should walk around mines if they can see it

 

-No saving in combat, thats cheap.

 

-Big scary alien monsters are badly needed! How about a full sized rancor when you aren't level 5?

 

-If you hack a computer for an area map the parts you haven't visited should be greyed out. I generally didn't download them because then I couldn't tell what rooms I had visited.

 

-Display damage to energy shields, make it yellow text or something (optoinal)

 

-Display damage dealt BY allies to enemies, I like to know whose dishing out damage and who isn't whilst I micro my force powers (agan, make it an option)

 

-Pop up boxing showing exp/light,dark points gained and what not should NEVER say "Items Gained!" Just tell me what it is! Also, when talking with someone if they say they have a reward and you have the option to decline or ask more how about they just say what they are giving?

 

-More puzzles! So long as they are optional they can even be pretty challenging, always good to spice up the mix and avoid some monotony.

 

-More bosses/unique character with fancy death animations are needed. Its a *good* feeling to kill an extra powerful character, and a nice in-game cutscene would be a suitable reward. A blade through the stomach, blaster bolt between the eyes, these are all good exciting things to see.

 

-If you have more side-quests like the murder mystery on Dantooine and puzzle stuff why not randomize it? Keeps the game interesting the second time through, and it is always an optional thing to do so why not? Same for some of those math based puzzles

 

-When not in combat lightsabers should dangle at hips, blasters on sides, rifles strapped over the shoulder. Its just silly to see a jedi running through a city with a saber in each hand

 

-When your evil you lose a few allies, how about throwing in a couple of characters you can only get if your evil?

 

-There are some items in the game that have no use (sith lightsaber, special fire grenade) and thats not cool. I always thought throwing the fire grenade at the frozen acid should melt it causing anyone standing on top to die too. Also there is NO reason why the sith lightsaber shouldn't be like any other one. It would have been nice to be evil and use a sith lightsaber instead of a normal one you know?

 

-More light/dark only items. Light jedi definately got the better ones (armor/crystal) so make sure its not completely lop sided again

 

-Was there supposed to be a point to the Czerka corp? Everyone talked trash about them but they never really had a point. Run out of time perhaps? I always expected some long story filled side quest with them...and it never came.

 

-Force sight at least sounds useless right now (if its your 2nd time through then you know whose evil and whose not). Let it display armor/health/stats of enemy units, like awareness in Fallout.

 

 

 

Looks like thats it. Its late so please excuse all grammatical and typing mistakes. If I can find the PC version for cheap then I will give the game another run through and may add to this list. Its enough to give you guys some work for the time being. Again please note that this points are NOT up for debate so don't waste your time telling me how I'm wrong about something, because I'm not.

[Arkan]

You derf.

[Shdy314]

Just know that this is not made for discussion or for anyone to disagree with me. This is more of a list for the devs to look over as a to-do list.

 

:D :D :D

This is a forum bud. And unless you're president of Obsidian you don't make to-Do lists. Not that your ideas are bad but no one listens to someone that acts like a prick about it. You can have the best idea in the world but if no one wants to listen to you...

 

-More animations.

 

Are always good. And being added.

 

-Evil path is lame, fix it. Too much random killing for no benefit. Fallout 2, thats an evil game, but you guys should know that, follow your past example. Working for slavers, marrying some ho you got caught sleeping with, selling ho to slavers, then killing the slavers for loot/money is evil in its purest form.

 

You point out the evil path is made up mainly of bullying then you use as examples a bunch of the same kind of stuff. I think most people want their evil characters to have a little more ambition. Like becoming head of the slavers. Also realize Lucasarts wants Teen games and youre asking for situations that will make it Mature. Therefore it is not going to happen. Sorry for "discussion." You probably don't like to understand the reality of situations.

 

Too often I do something and I don't know why. On Kashyk I did the entire quest in the forest about killing the legendary monster and getting the blade stuck in its side before I had even heard about it. That kind of thing happens through the entire game.

This is going to happen. Sometimes some things will obviously need doing and you might not realize someone specific will ask you too until later. But I agree this should be minimized.

 

Side games should be important, challenging, and rewarding.

Good stuff.

 

Doubled bladed lightsaber is utterly useless.

What game were you playing? This is just not true at all.

OH and don't bother debating me on this. Im right and you are wrong. No doubt about it.

Single wielding a lightsaber also sucks big time.

I wouldn't say big time but it does need a SLIGHT overhaul.

-Bash should either work first try or not at all. Slashing a door ten times is boring. If your strength is high. Same for persuade and other stat rolls. In pen and paper you only get one shot so its ok to involve the roll of a dice. In a computer game if its possible to do something but you fail EVERYONE will just load/retry untill they suceed. nough then give a little prying open / melting lock / slashing lock animation. It would also be nice to see a special animation of someone trying to pry open a door/melt a lock or something aside the regular attack animation.

First time or not at all? That is a horrible idea. You want to talk about frustrating players. Persuade only does work the first time or not at all.

We don't need a special animation for bashing open a door. That's a waste of dev time.

Higher end grenades are too expensive. 750 for a plasma nade? 2000 for a thermal detonator (I think) Nice when your selling but thats far too much for a one time use item.

Definitely.

-Energy shields are useless right now. There are several potentially useful ones but they are used up far too quickly. Let them be rechargeable, fancier the shield the more energy cells it takes.

Definitely.

-Repaired droids are utterly useless. They are scattered throughout the game, rarely do much damage, and always die fast. Make them a bit stronger, have them follow the main character (as opposed to patrol), and let them follow you outside thier initial area. In theory you could have 4 or 5 following you, and that would be awesome. Since they die relatively fast anyways it won't unbalance the game, but it would be nice to try and get all of them in the game (unlock another easter egg if you get so many at once !!)

They aren't utterly useless at first. Following the main character is a bad idea for a host of reasons you should know since you claim you will be a future dev. Otherwise the rest is good. Though I wouldn't mind if they just gott rid of that entirely. It's very unrealistic.

-Saber throw is kind of disappointing because when you throw it you get shot a whole lot by blasters. How about a third level that does a little bit more damage and lets you stop that incoming fire with your hand ala Darth Vader in ESB, that

would be incredibly cool or it could be an innate soldier ability (hand blocking blasters that is)

It's called force absorb and should definitely be a force power. But separate from throwing your lightsaber.

-Flurry is too good. An extra attack for -1 attack, -1 def at level 3? Don't decrease the defence penalty, leave it locked at 4 or 5. Then its more of a kamikaze style attack, and would be ok for those non-force users who wear armor and there is balance in the force once again.

Power attack is worthless. +10 damage versus flurry which gives you another attack that is guarnteed to do more than that? No contest. Different feats should have different advantages, right now there are very clear 'best feats.'

Very true.

-If combat is initiated immediately after combat again a tough boss then auto-save! (Just make it an option) Going through several minutes of dialogue only to immediately die is depressing.

Don't need autosave. We can save anytime.

Take out 'You must gather your party before venturing forth.' This isn't BG2, allies can't be left in obscure locations to take advantage of the game, they follow you (albeit slowly when you use knight speed), has no reason to be left in.

Annoying yes but necessary. And realistic.

20 seconds is too short for force powers, how about 30? Anymore might be a bit much, but 20 is definately too short.

Sure but only if they also make fights harder.

-Cut scenes are lame, I don't want to see the ship flying onto or off a planet, show something exciting

Yup.

On Taris the side-thing where you help a dancer is abyssmal. Dancing in general looks reeeally bad. It could be fun little DDR-like easter egg though. Then if you go dancing on all the planets it can unlock DDR dance routines to the

DDR Dance routines???? It was just a funny, quick sidequest (that also illustrates how hard it is to get NPCs to interact and do things in the engine) You don't need to make every little thing into something more.

classic music (Imperial March, Duel of the Fates, etc..) Easter eggs are good, and that would be absolutely hilarious.

As an easter egg would be ok. Wouldn't consider it absolutely unrefutedly neccessary.

-Shiny aliens are good, take advantage of that more! They look exponentially better than regular textured critters.

Ok but no voices that make me want to tear my skin off.

Party members should walk around mines if they can see it

That's just better AI and should be if any NPC can see it. Some of them have low awareness.

No saving in combat, thats cheap.

If combat is made harder as I hope then it will be neccessary for more casual less tactical players and should definitely be kept. There are many times I have had to get up and go suddenly. Savng anywhere is a good idea and very popular. You're definitely wrong on this.

Big scary alien monsters are badly needed! How about a full sized rancor when you aren't level 5?

Yes.

If you hack a computer for an area map the parts you haven't visited should be greyed out. I generally didn't download them because then I couldn't tell what rooms I had visited.

Yes.

Display damage to energy shields, make it yellow text or something (optoinal)

Display damage dealt BY allies to enemies, I like to know whose dishing out damage and who isn't whilst I micro my force powers (agan, make it an option)

Okae we don't need a million numbers floating above everyone's heads.

Pop up boxing showing exp/light,dark points gained and what not should NEVER say "Items Gained!" Just tell me what it is! Also, when talking with someone if they say they have a reward and you have the option to decline or ask more how about they just say what they are giving?

Definitely. Sometimes it could take me forever to figure out what I'd been given with that horrible inventory system.

More puzzles! So long as they are optional they can even be pretty challenging, always good to spice up the mix and avoid some monotony.

As long as they aren't math puzzles.

More bosses/unique character with fancy death animations are needed. Its a *good* feeling to kill an extra powerful character, and a nice in-game cutscene would be a suitable reward. A blade through the stomach, blaster bolt between the eyes, these are all good exciting things to see.

Yes.

If you have more side-quests like the murder mystery on Dantooine and puzzle stuff why not randomize it? Keeps the game interesting the second time through, and it is always an optional thing to do so why not? Same for some of those math based puzzles

Randomize it???? That would be tricky to implement and is just generally a bad idea.

When not in combat lightsabers should dangle at hips, blasters on sides, rifles strapped over the shoulder. Its just silly to see a jedi running through a city with a saber in each hand

This was asked for on the KOTOR forums many times. If they didn't put it in then there is probably some programming reason.

When your evil you lose a few allies, how about throwing in a couple of characters you can only get if your evil?

There are many reasons you would have more NPCs by being good than bad but I will just point out that this is being implemented in KOTOR 2.

There are some items in the game that have no use (sith lightsaber, special fire grenade) and thats not cool. I always thought throwing the fire grenade at the frozen acid should melt it causing anyone standing on top to die too. Also there is NO reason why the sith lightsaber shouldn't be like any other one. It would have been nice to be evil and use a sith lightsaber instead of a normal one you know?

This would have to be judged on a case by case basis. Agree on the Sith lightsaber

issue though. I got it and I couldn't wait to use it but then found out you couldn't.

More light/dark only items. Light jedi definately got the better ones (armor/crystal) so make sure its not completely lop sided again

Yes.

Was there supposed to be a point to the Czerka corp? Everyone talked trash about them but they never really had a point. Run out of time perhaps? I always expected some long story filled side quest with them...and it never came.

Maybe. Much doesn't make it through the development process.

Force sight at least sounds useless right now (if its your 2nd time through then you know whose evil and whose not). Let it display armor/health/stats of enemy units, like awareness in Fallout.

Yep.

Its enough to give you guys some work for the time being. Again please note that this points are NOT up for debate so don't waste your time telling me how I'm wrong about something, because I'm not.

"Enough to give you some work." Let me tell you right now Devs don't care what one person has to say. You need an entire community behind you agreeing with how important each of these issues is. So you better change your holier than thou attitude. Like I said before. Better hope people don't "remember your name" or you're never going to be hired. You do realize your on a FORUM right? Do you know what that is? All you're going to get is massive flames which will do nothing for you at all. These points ARE up for debate if only because you posted them publicly on a FORUM! Just because you don't want to know what you're wrong about doesn't mean they aren't debatable. Only Obsidian can say what is and isn't debatable. And you ARE wrong about a few things and other points just needed to be expanded on.

[lordcecil]

This is a forum bud. And unless you're president of Obsidian you don't make to-Do lists. Not that your ideas are bad but no one listens to someone that acts like a prick about it. You can have the best idea in the world but if no one wants to listen to you...

 

No one will want to listen to me, but it draws more attention, and thus will be read. It only has to be read once for the idea to be imprinted. A good idea is a good idea regardless of how big a jerk the speaker is. I prefer the term 'c***y bastard' to prick for future reference. =D In all honesty though my only future comments in this forum will be replies to this thread and if, keyword if, I make another post upon completing the game again. With that out of the way...lets discuss!!

 

-I don't expect KOTOR2 to have slavery, that was more of an example of how you can be much more evil than just killing people. Excellent point on ambition, I left of a point where I thought you should have become leader to the Sith Academy. I'm not really sure how that would benefit you in the game, perhaps money or maybe a special feat that gives a very minor benefit or something. Who knows. Would be kinda neat to have something special for each of the three Jedi classes (light/dark variants) ala strong holds in BG2.

 

 

What game were you playing? This is just not true at all.

OH and don't bother debating me on this. Im right and you are wrong. No doubt about it.

 

An error on my mistake, blast! You are semi-correct here. Alone the double-bladed saber is perfectly adequate. From a power gaming perspective (I strive for perfection, ruins some games, can't change who I am though!) it is utterly useless when compared to a saber in each hand. A couple more points of damage and two less crystals. That damage is easily made up for crystals. Perhaps there are advantages to the double-bladed over a single in each hand that I am unaware of, can you enlighten me?

 

 

First time or not at all? That is a horrible idea. You want to talk about frustrating players.  Persuade only does work the first time or not at all.

We don't need a special animation for bashing open a door. That's a waste of dev time.

 

I disagree with you on this. If a persuade has a serious benefit (save 1000 credits on a quest object for example) then most players will load until they get it or decide thier skill is so low its impossible to obtain. Not sure how it would frustrate character though. Why spend 10 attacks opening a door? Thats a waste of player time. If your strength is high enough to bash something open then do so on the first attempt. If your too weak to do it then so be it (not every chest/door in the game should be bashable with 12 strength you know, give security some use!). I think we may be on different pages on this topic.

 

 

They aren't utterly useless at first. Following the main character is a bad idea for a host of reasons you should know since you claim you will be a future dev. Otherwise the rest is good. Though I wouldn't mind if they just gott rid of that entirely. It's very unrealistic.

 

They have low armor, low health, low damage, and not enough attacks. I suppose in certain situations they could have a benefit (everything will in SOME scenario) but I never encountered a case where having it was better than not. I don't see why having it follow the main character around is a programming problem at all. Regular allies follow just fine, whats a few extra droids? Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to have minions.

 

 

DDR Dance routines????  It was just a funny, quick sidequest (that also illustrates how hard it is to get NPCs to interact and do things in the engine) You don't need to make every little thing into something more.

 

Haha I didn't know if anyone would pick up on this (I figure most people just scan through). I was replaying the game, it was a completely ridiculous little dance thing and it popped to mind. You can't deny that it would not be hilarious to have in game though. C'mon, just think about it ! Imagine your big bulky soldier dancing to Star Wars music and tell me you could keep a straight face. I also think it could be implemented with great ease which is why I decided to go ahead and say it. This would DEFINATELY be at the bottom of the list of importance, but I still laugh thinking about it. =D

 

 

It's called force absorb and should definitely be a force power. But separate from throwing your lightsaber.

 

There is some power that lets you absorb energy, like 20 points worth, its completely laughable. I think the soldier should get that ability for free. When you throw your lightsaber your open to blaster fire, since he is a Jedi warrior he should be able to stop those shots for the few seconds the saber is out of his hand. I'm going to stick by what I said on this one. Plus it would be insanely cool to stop with his hand instead of some silly blue energy force shield.

 

 

Okae we don't need a million numbers floating above everyone's heads.

 

Thats why I said optional. In the feedback menu there could be more options on what numbers to show and not show. Turn it off by default but it would be very easy to implement and I think it would be quite handy. I'd also like to see damage done by blaster reflection, forgot that one.

 

 

Randomize it???? That would be tricky to implement and is just generally a bad idea.

 

My mistake, bad example. That quest in particular would be nigh impossible to make random, but many of the puzzles could. The math stuff for example (which you seem to hate) and all those little one question riddle type things. Speaking of riddles, on the side-quest in the prison I would have liked a lot more options for a respsone. It was pretty obvious what the answers were. Give like 10 options as a response and pull the riddles from a pool of around 20 (that would be very easy to do) so its not the exact same every time. Thats the kind of 'randomizing' I spoke of.

 

 

 

Excellent discussion. To the other guy - what does derf mean? I'm not sure if thats good or bad. <shrug>

 

Aside from the DDR thing (heh heh heh, you know it would be hilarious) I stand by all that I have said. Hopefully these explanations clear a little confusion up.

[Jurgenaut]

Just a comment..

 

The double bladed saber is the best one from a powergaming point of view.

You cannot have mantle of the force on both your sabers. Therefor you cannot max out the damage of both your sabers.

With a double bladed saber, you get 1 more attack (as though you used dual sabres), with maxed damage. Only bad thing is the critical range.

 

And you're free to give heart of the guardian to juhani or jolee.

 

(I might be confusing the MotF and HotG, I dunno)

[Shdy314]

No one will want to listen to me, but it draws more attention, and thus will be read. It only has to be read once for the idea to be imprinted. A good idea is a good idea regardless of how big a jerk the speaker is. I prefer the term 'c***y bastard' to prick for future reference. =D In all honesty though my only future comments in this forum will be replies to this thread and if, keyword if, I make another post upon completing the game again. With that out of the way...lets discuss!!

People will read a post in the forum regardless of how much of a crazy bastard you try to present yourself as. Only problem is they have a tendency to stop reading when they reach a part like that and write a response to it and then ignore everything else and not respond to anything else you say except to debate and have lots of useless discussions and posts on how big an idiot you must be. Best to just be polite about it.

I don't expect KOTOR2 to have slavery, that was more of an example of how you can be much more evil than just killing people. Excellent point on ambition, I left of a point where I thought you should have become leader to the Sith Academy. I'm not really sure how that would benefit you in the game, perhaps money or maybe a special feat that gives a very minor benefit or something. Who knows. Would be kinda neat to have something special for each of the three Jedi classes (light/dark variants) ala strong holds in BG2.

Yes good stuff. I know you didn't expect there to be slavery specifically but the Teen rating will keep most truly evil and adult things like that out of the game and this is unavoidable. So we will just have to settle for more ambitious evil actions. I too thought for sure killing Uthar would get me respect at the Academy not turn everyone hostile.

 

An error on my mistake, blast! You are semi-correct here. Alone the double-bladed saber is perfectly adequate. From a power gaming perspective (I strive for perfection, ruins some games, can't change who I am though!) it is utterly useless when compared to a saber in each hand. A couple more points of damage and two less crystals. That damage is easily made up for crystals. Perhaps there are advantages to the double-bladed over a single in each hand that I am unaware of, can you enlighten me?

The game is easy enough! :D Can't make a game to cater to powergamers. No power is ever enough to satisfy them. Double LS and single LS are a little underpowered compared to dual wielding though. I think Dueling should be made more powerful. Double LS in D20 is supposed to give something like a 1/2 attack more, way more damage(I think some extra damage is applied by using Double LS not relfected in LS damge, like how Dual wielding means you do less damage, double sabers should have some kind of strength multiplier), and not hurt your defense as much as dual wielding. Not sure how closely this implemented in KOTOR though. I do know Double LS was very popular so I don't think changing it is a big deal.

I disagree with you on this. If a persuade has a serious benefit (save 1000 credits on a quest object for example) then most players will load until they get it or decide thier skill is so low its impossible to obtain. Not sure how it would frustrate character though. Why spend 10 attacks opening a door? Thats a waste of player time. If your strength is high enough to bash something open then do so on the first attempt. If your too weak to do it then so be it (not every chest/door in the game should be bashable with 12 strength you know, give security some use!). I think we may be on different pages on this topic.

I think we have a misunderstanding not a disagreement. Of course people just reload every time they fail. Nothing can change this. I said the strength check to bash the door would frustrate players when they are using an LS for obvious reasons.(In case it isn't obvious the LS can slice open anything and isn't dependent on strength. As you know I made quite a few suggestions on how to make secuirty more viable) Some skills are obviously one shot. Like persuade but others obviously can be made repeatedly unless you critically fail. Like disarming/recovering a mine. And this should remain so.

They have low armor, low health, low damage, and not enough attacks. I suppose in certain situations they could have a benefit (everything will in SOME scenario) but I never encountered a case where having it was better than not. I don't see why having it follow the main character around is a programming problem at all. Regular allies follow just fine, whats a few extra droids? Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to have minions.

I figured thats what you were trying to get but it just won't happen. They were useful until you get off Taris. Especially when you are doing like me and staying at level 2 the whole time till Dantooine. Having it follow the PC around isn't so much a programming impossibility or even a difficulty as it is time consuming and not worth that time. Anyways I don't claim to know much about programming. You claim to be a future dev though so...

Haha I didn't know if anyone would pick up on this (I figure most people just scan through). I was replaying the game, it was a completely ridiculous little dance thing and it popped to mind. You can't deny that it would not be hilarious to have in game though.  I also think it could be implemented with great ease which is why I decided to go ahead and say it. This would DEFINATELY be at the bottom of the list of importance, but I still laugh thinking about it. =D

Hilarious sure. I didn't have a big soldier though. I was always a scoundrel. Once a scout. And I don't scan. I am a close reader. The DDR dance routine would just be another mini game at best and we have enough of those.

There is some power that lets you absorb energy, like 20 points worth, its completely laughable. I think the soldier should get that ability for free. When you throw your lightsaber your open to blaster fire, since he is a Jedi warrior he should be able to stop those shots for the few seconds the saber is out of his hand. I'm going to stick by what I said on this one. Plus it would be insanely cool to stop with his hand instead of some silly blue energy force shield.

Yeah Energy Absorb. Not quite the same as Force Absorb in D20. I want it to be called Force Absorb and should definitely be beefed up. Having a hand out to block shots animation when using it would be kewl but too hard to do. Either you'd have a hand out all the time till it wore off (really dumb) or it'd come up after shots hit you since it would be so difficult to get it to time blaster shots perfectly without a lot of work.

Thats why I said optional. In the feedback menu there could be more options on what numbers to show and not show. Turn it off by default but it would be very easy to implement and I think it would be quite handy. I'd also like to see damage done by blaster reflection, forgot that one.

Well optional is fine but no one will use it. Think how many numbers having it all on would produce! Especially since you can often get in like 4 hits in one round.

My mistake, bad example. That quest in particular would be nigh impossible to make random, but many of the puzzles could. The math stuff for example (which you seem to hate) and all those little one question riddle type things. Speaking of riddles, on the side-quest in the prison I would have liked a lot more options for a respsone. It was pretty obvious what the answers were. Give like 10 options as a response and pull the riddles from a pool of around 20 (that would be very easy to do) so its not the exact same every time. Thats the kind of 'randomizing' I spoke of.

Still don't see how you can make math puzzles random. Other than just flat out changing the puzzle. In which case the math puzzle would have to be verbal. And who wants a ton of random math puzzles to figure out?

Everything is KOTOR was made so casual player friendly it was sick. The options in puzzles definitely needed to be tricker. More dialogue options in general would be nice.

Excellent discussion. To the other guy - what does derf mean? I'm not sure if thats good or bad. <shrug>

Derf is bad. You can just tell. Just proves my point on behaving yourself or you just get posts like that. <_<

[Shdy314]

Just a comment..

 

The double bladed saber is the best one from a powergaming point of view.

You cannot have mantle of the force on both your sabers. Therefor you cannot max out the damage of both your sabers.

With a double bladed saber, you get 1 more attack (as though you used dual sabres), with maxed damage. Only bad thing is the critical range.

 

And you're free to give heart of the guardian to juhani or jolee.

 

(I might be confusing the MotF and HotG, I dunno)

I THINK there is a strength or damage multiplier on Double sabers. Meaning that they do (or CAN do) the most damage in a single hit of pretty much any weapon in the game. Which powergamers LOVE.

[lordcecil]

This is good stuff.

 

Argument I once heard on the lightsaber / strength question. Take a razor sharp axe and tap a tree, it puts a knick in it. Then swing the axe as hard as you can and it takes a giant chunk out. Same argument can be applied to the lightsaber, maybe, depending on who you ask. =D

 

Should a regular sword be able to duel with a LS? Of course not, but you can in KOTOR. Some things you just can't really explain. Its just kind of silly for every locked door and every locked chest to be opened with a lightsaber you know?

 

On the double-LS vs dual-LS how about if the str modifier doesn't apply to the dual-LS? That would make sense from a 'realism' perspective too.

 

I stand firm by my optional numbers, even if there are a ridiculous amount of numbers on the screen. The 'hand blocking blasters' would only apply when the saber is thrown. You hand is out there anyways waiting to catch it on the return so why not?

 

I'm beginning to think more and more that the double LS should have its own feat class - stave weapons or something like that. I think with a little work all three saber styles can be made equal in power. In my eyes the #1 goal when balancing such things is to reach a point where everything is different, yet equal. They'd all have strengths and weaknesses and you can just pick whatever fits your character style.

[Shdy314]

Argument I once heard on the lightsaber / strength question. Take a razor sharp axe and tap a tree, it puts a knick in it. Then swing the axe as hard as you can and it takes a giant chunk out. Same argument can be applied to the lightsaber, maybe, depending on who you ask. =D

That's a really crappy argument. It is totally fallacious. A closer analogy would be trying to cut down a tree with a self contained incredibly powerful cutting laser. TSSEEEW. Tree is down. EASY. As I said before the usefulness of a LS is not determined by the strength of the wielder. It cuts all on its own through any material (technically even cortosis which only shuts off LS). Not to mention you can keep slamming that axe into the tree all you want until it falls down. Don't know any lumberjack that would take one swing and then give up declaring the tree impossible to knock down.

Should a regular sword be able to duel with a LS? Of course not, but you can in KOTOR. Some things you just can't really explain. Its just kind of silly for every locked door and every locked chest to be opened with a lightsaber you know?

I completely understand the need sometimes for arbitrary gameplay restrictions to maintain balance. But it should be avoided at all costs and SOME attempt should be made to explain it away. The explanation may be ludicrous but at least Bioware tried to explain it by saying they use a cortosis weave. Its not silly at all for the lightsaber to function in the capacity of slicing things open since that is what it does and part of why it is so kewl.

On the double-LS vs dual-LS how about if the str modifier doesn't apply to the dual-LS? That would make sense from a 'realism' perspective too. I'm beginning to think more and more that the double LS should have its own feat class - stave weapons or something like that. I think with a little work all three saber styles can be made equal in power. In my eyes the #1 goal when balancing such things is to reach a point where everything is different, yet equal. They'd all have strengths and weaknesses and you can just pick whatever fits your character style.

There is no strength multiplier for dual wielding. In fact strength is actually halved. At least in the off hand. So the lightsabers are actually balanced as long as Dueling is made just slightly more powerful.

I stand firm by my optional numbers, even if there are a ridiculous amount of numbers on the screen. The 'hand blocking blasters' would only apply when the saber is thrown. You hand is out there anyways waiting to catch it on the return so why not?

I already agreed having this as optional feedback is just fine. Not sure how easyit is to implement though and not many people would care or use it. So I don't think the devs would waste time with it. I am only arguing it is not important. Not that it is a bad idea.

[Cord]

Why spend 10 attacks opening a door? Thats a waste of player time. If your strength is high enough to bash something open then do so on the first attempt. If your too weak to do it then so be it (not every chest/door in the game should be bashable with 12 strength you know, give security some use!). I think we may be on different pages on this topic

 

That particular mechanic is in there specifically to make the security skill worthwhile. Who would waste points on lock-picking if you could just bash your way through everything in the exact same ammonut of time? That was what happened in Neverwinter Nights anyways. Overall, I'd say KOTOR1 got this particular game mechanic right.

 

I THINK there is a strength or damage multiplier on Double sabers. Meaning that they do (or CAN do) the most damage in a single hit of pretty much any weapon in the game. Which powergamers LOVE.

 

They have double the critical range of a two-bladed saber. (19-20 instead of 20-20) If you combine that with maxed out critical strike you score a crit on rolls of 12-20 instead of 16-20. 60% crits can be rather nice, perhaps even better than an extra attack per round. (i.e. with flurry)

 

-Higher end grenades are too expensive. 750 for a plasma nade? 2000 for a thermal detonator (I think) Nice when your selling but thats far too much for a one time use item.

 

-Energy shields are useless right now. There are several potentially useful ones but they are used up far too quickly. Let them be rechargeable, fancier the shield the more energy cells it takes.

 

Most CRPG's have items like these. They're nice and powerful, but in short enough supply that you can only use them in the toughest fights where you need a bit of help. If they were cheap and plentiful it would make the game too easy, but having a limited supply of them turns them into a sort of strategic reserve. This is a tried and true mechanic that isn't likely to change soon.

 

Repaired droids are utterly useless. They are scattered throughout the game, rarely do much damage, and always die fast.

 

Actually, in KOTOR1 there were a couple very nice uses of droids for non-combat purposes. For example, in the Vulkar hideout you could reprogram a droid to ram the hanger doors to gain access to an area with a nice fight and a big stack of credits. At another point in the base you could program a droid to detonate itself in a pool to get rid of a toxic leak that would make going in there yourself a pain in the arse. (Possibly, but not nearly as easy as blowing up the droid) I'd love to see a few more of these. However, you should also recognize that the droids were in there to balance scoundrels in the early game. They might not be a huge asset for a soldier, but a scoundrel could definately make use of them in a few situations.

 

In KOTOR2 I expect we'll see more non-combat uses for droids. It would be great if you could corrupt a droid and turn it into a remote scout (i.e. The Player takes control of the droid) to allow you to explore dangerous areas or retreive items from impregnable or inaccessible locations. (e.g. Reprogram a small droid and then use it to crawl through the ventilation ducts to spy on an enemy elsewhere in the building, pick up secret plans, etc.)

 

As for getting droids to follow you around... I am betting that a lot of droid models are level-specific. (i.e. Not global) Odds are that even if you wrote the code to allow them to zone with players you'd run into memory limitations. (on the Xbox at least, if not on the PC) Allowing them to follow you around within a given level might not be a bad idea. Putting a droid into "follow and defend" mode should probably cost a lot of parts though.

 

-Power attack is worthless. +10 damage versus flurry which gives you another attack that is guarnteed to do more than that? No contest. Different feats should have different advantages, right now there are very clear 'best feats.'

 

I'm pretty sure they already have plans to do extensive feat balancing.

 

-Cut scenes are lame, I don't want to see the ship flying onto or off a planet, show something exciting

 

Hit the ESC key.

 

On Taris the side-thing where you help a dancer is abyssmal. Dancing in general looks reeeally bad. It could be fun little DDR-like easter egg though. Then if you go dancing on all the planets it can unlock DDR dance routines to the

 

classic music (Imperial March, Duel of the Fates, etc..) Easter eggs are good, and that would be absolutely hilarious.

 

They might as well add Karaoke while they're at it, complete with a mic plug-in to detect when you're singing out of key and zap your character. Better yet, add some nice malware for webcam users to grab video of you during the DDR/Karaoke-a-thon and distribute them to the good folks at www.starwarskid.com.

 

-Party members should walk around mines if they can see it

 

I'd be utterly amazed if improving NPC pathing wasn't already on their todo list.

 

Big scary alien monsters are badly needed! How about a full sized rancor when you aren't level 5?

 

It's going to look very cheap when you start hacking at a Rancor's toes and it eventually dies from what would probably ammount to a manicure. Fighting giant mobs is probably out unless the animators have a lot of extra time on their hands. (i.e. Don't count on it.)

 

-When your evil you lose a few allies, how about throwing in a couple of characters you can only get if your evil?

 

Why find new party members when you can just corrupt and turn your existing members to the dark side? (This is what they are currently implementing)

 

Was there supposed to be a point to the Czerka corp? Everyone talked trash about them but they never really had a point. Run out of time perhaps? I always expected some long story filled side quest with them...and it never came.

 

I thought Czerka was quite well incorporated into the back histories of Kashyyk, Tatooine, and HK-47. Sometimes material is just there to give the illusion of depth. That's one thing KOTOR1 did very well.

 

Force sight at least sounds useless right now (if its your 2nd time through then you know whose evil and whose not). Let it display armor/health/stats of enemy units, like awareness in Fallout.

 

Let's not jump to conclusions just yet... Who knows what it will come in handy for just yet? Heck, for all we know some of the evil/good alignments will wind up being random. (similar to replicant status in Westood's Bladerunner)

[sniggy]

Okae we don't need a million numbers floating above everyone's heads.

 

they should make the display of numbers optional. i'd rather not see anything like that at all.

 

When not in combat lightsabers should dangle at hips, blasters on sides, rifles strapped over the shoulder. Its just silly to see a jedi running through a city with a saber in each hand.

 

but he's right. that absolutely looks stupid.

 

Regular allies follow just fine, whats a few extra droids? Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to have minions.

 

being able to sell the droids would be cool. repair them and take them with you.

 

it was a completely ridiculous little dance thing and it popped to mind

 

that was the star wars equivalent of repairing the well. better side-quests would be nice. some that don't involve the main character look like star wars kid

 

teen rating will keep most truly evil and adult things like that out of the game and this is unavoidable

 

how many teens are in this forum? i just don't see an evil sith lord running around, trying NOT to be too evil in order to maintain a specific rating. come on! what is he supposed to do? steal your saber? bad sith! bad sith! sit!

 

Not quite the same as Force Absorb

 

btw, move object would be a cool force power to have. guess the engine doesn't make this possible, though.

 

Should a regular sword be able to duel with a LS? Of course not, but you can in KOTOR. Some things you just can't really explain. Its just kind of silly for every locked door and every locked chest to be opened with a lightsaber you know?

 

they're supposed to be specially coated or something. i still don't see the point in having a saber then. it should slice through all kinds of weapons and then leave the wielder unprotected.

 

It's going to look very cheap when you start hacking at a Rancor's toes and it eventually dies from what would probably ammount to a manicure. Fighting giant mobs is probably out unless the animators have a lot of extra time on their hands

 

you'd have to be able to force jump onto that thing to drive your saber into its head. as you said- we won't see any fights like that

 

I thought Czerka was quite well incorporated into the back histories of Kashyyk, Tatooine, and HK-47. Sometimes material is just there to give the illusion of depth. That's one thing KOTOR1 did very well.

 

finding out that czerka is owned by sith could have been a side quest though. then one could defame czerka in the galaxy, taking some of the siths support away.

[Hegix]

taking some of the siths support away.

That is something I'd like to see more of, like the Trias fight in PS:T. Make the ending near impossible in its base form then, depending on your actions, make it easier as the support for the enemy lowers. For LS you could just remove enemies and for DS some of the enemy will change sides during the "final battle".

 

I want to see more of the results of my actions instead of the world being just the same no matter what I do.

[Meiz]

As for the lighsaber cutting every door: How about using some energy fields here and there, instead of normal doors? That would give a little bit more use to security.

[Jonny_Evil]

the Teen rating will keep most truly evil and adult things like that out of the game and this is unavoidable.

 

Will Kotor 2 definitly be a teen game? It says that it will be darker in tone and there is a rating pending sign on the official website.

 

Maybe there is a small change in direction at lucasarts going on? Republic commandos is supposed to be a dark, gritty kind of game as well. Maybe with some more mature games and the apparently quite dark Birth of the Empire coming out next year the higher ups in the lucas empire have realised that a large majority of lifetime star wars fans are on the wrong side of middle aged by now and all this cutesy teen business isn't really necessary.

 

Here's hoping anyway. B)

[Yoda Tokare]

I'm a teen! You guys don't be so selfish!I also hate those bloody games! :angry:

[Jonny_Evil]

I'm a teen! You guys don't be so selfish!I also hate those bloody games! :angry:

I'm willing to bet most teens hate cutesy games and pay no attention to ratings. I know I didn't with films when I was a kid, I watched Aliens when I was six and watched Silence of the Lambs when it first came out and saw many 15 + 18 rated films at the cinema before I was anywhere near old enough. The problem is though that in the slightly twisted and disturbed world of the popular media and overly concerned mother's groups all you teenagers are fluffy little peachy darlings who must be wrapped in cotton wool, protected from the nasty things and only shown flowers 'n ponies and suchlike.

 

The result? Pure tripe, as bereft of any serious weight or substance as a milky way. Far below the quality possible if mature themes are accepted. As has been grumbled about many times a lot of the DS stuff in Kotor was lightweight thug stuff because any more serious evil would lose the teen rating. More realistic depictions of evil would make the game more popular with both teens and adults playing it.

 

Quite an unfocused rant, that. I just can't see the point of teen ratings, a large number of star wars fans for both games and films are well past worrying about age ratings and the majority of teenagers will buy their own games and ignore age ratings anyway (I mean, what self respecting teen would ever let their parents know what they are up to?). Surely it would be worth the risk to make a Star wars game with a thoughtful, serious and mature plot, givve it a mature rating and see how the sales go. I'd predict they'd be far higher than any teen rated game.

[Kdy-worker 1138]

  Don't know any lumberjack that would take one swing and then give up declaring the tree impossible to knock down.

 

I would ..but then again...i

[Quiquag]

Your "Giant list of suggestions" is easily the largest post Ive ever seen in a forum lol. Why did you write your post in thesis format? lol...The time it took a dev to read your post, was time that could have been spent on the game.

[lordcecil]

I'm pretty sure they already have plans to do extensive feat balancing.

 

Good call there buddy. Infact, I think they have plans to make everything better. I'd go so far as to say that this game would be a triple A class title without this forum and without a single suggestion from us fans.

 

I'm just adding in my two cents whether they like it or not. Devs require fan feedback, I could have given it months ago with the rest of the internet, but instead I'm giving it now. In all likelyhood no real dev is going to read that list, just a few game testers who pass on things they find interesting. Thats fine with me though, because I had fun coming up with the list.

 

 

Cord: I'm going to try and reply to your points, but I won't quote because the mosts are getting far too long.

 

-Being able to open every chest and unlock every door with a lightsaber is silly from a game perspective. If in BG2 you could do that with your Paladin's sword of godly awesomeness +5 (forget what that thing was called...) that would be just plain rediculous. Per D&D rules Bash is a strength skill. How about make it dexterity based and if you screwup the items inside are destroyed? I mean, if the LS cuts through anything with ease (note true, see giant door they melt in Ep 1 instead of just flicking the wrist to create a big doorway) and you just hackaway at a small chest odds are you could screw up and cut straight down the middle, when you just wanted to break the locking mechanism. With this mindset so chests could have complicated locks that can't be broken as they are spread throughout its walls. Doors could still have forcefields on them too. <shrug>

 

 

- Plasma nades / thermal detonators are still to expensive. When your buying Fett body armor, fancy guns, high tech peripherals, and saving 45k for crystals your not going to spend 2000 on a single use grenade (TD). I didn't say make it cheap, just cheaper. Another option would be to make them cheap, and just unavailable for the most part. If only one merchant had the fancy nades, and he only had a couple, then it wouldn't be a crime to make it 300 credits instead of 750. Not a single smart player is going to buy the nice grenades, we can all agree on that, therefore they are overpriced plain and simple.

 

- Droids that open doors and self-destruct to kill people are good, but that doesn't change anything about them being useless in combat. We definately agree on them costing lots of parts, but another reason for the repair skill ! Now I don't know much about programming (yet) but I think the same applies to you. Your 'local' argument doesn't really make any sense. One concern would be that having 3 allies but droids following you would cause slow-down, a valid and likely concern, but I *really* like to have minions following me around. =D

 

- I stand by my rancor argument, blasters would be fine and you could still hit its abdomen and possibly chest area with a LS. You guys are reading *waaay* much into my posts. The point of that was NOT 'lets fight a big rancor !!' instead it was 'lets fight bigger scarier monsters !!' Fighting bipedal creatures that are about 90% human can get a little tiring.

 

 

Before you comment again I think you should reread my posts a little more carefully. I'm honestly trying to be polite here, but it just seems like your trying to kiss ass or something. I'm sorry, but the cut scenes in the first one were LAME. Watching Taris get blow'd up was pretty cool, and the final cut scene was pretty nice, but everything inbetween sucked. Can I hit escape? Of course! But I'd rather point out that they need improvement so I don't even want to hit escape. Instead of cut scenes landing/leaving Tatooine how about a nice cut scene showing some hardcore battling (or more like me dodging and running for dear life) against the Krayt dragon. That would be a lot more entertaining than the Ebon Hawk landing on...a landing pad !

[Akari]

That's quite a long list there. Just so people know, it's really time consuming to go through posts that long and respond/think-about/account for everything on them. I have to at least look like I'm programming most of the time, so I can't invest the time it'd take to go through that entire list.

 

So I picked out one thing to mention.

 

-Take out 'You must gather your party before venturing forth.' This isn't BG2, allies can't be left in obscure locations to take advantage of the game, they follow you (albeit slowly when you use knight speed), has no reason to be left in.

 

That's been taken out. As long as your party members are all alive (i.e., have more than 1 HP), you'll be able to 'venture forth' as it were through area transitions.

 

-Akari

[lordcecil]

That's quite a long list there. Just so people know, it's really time consuming to go through posts that long and respond/think-about/account for everything on them. I have to at least look like I'm programming most of the time, so I can't invest the time it'd take to go through that entire list.

 

So I picked out one thing to mention.

 

-Take out 'You must gather your party before venturing forth.' This isn't BG2, allies can't be left in obscure locations to take advantage of the game, they follow you (albeit slowly when you use knight speed), has no reason to be left in.

 

That's been taken out. As long as your party members are all alive (i.e., have more than 1 HP), you'll be able to 'venture forth' as it were through area transitions.

 

-Akari

Haha I win ! I'm not sure what I win, but several people bashed that idea, so hah! =D

 

The fact that you read the list at all is amazing. Feel free to pass the link to your co-workers, I figure if everyone spends at least two minutes looking over it then *maybe* the whole thing will be read in about two weeks time. =P

[Kdy-worker 1138]

That's been taken out. As long as your party members are all alive (i.e., have more than 1 HP), you'll be able to 'venture forth' as it were through area transitions.

 

does this mean that your teamates can actually die? ...if this is so i would consider this a huge improvement.

[Akari]

That's been taken out. As long as your party members are all alive (i.e., have more than 1 HP), you'll be able to 'venture forth' as it were through area transitions.

 

does this mean that your teamates can actually die? ...if this is so i would consider this a huge improvement.

Not really. They still drop at 0 HP or less, and then will get back up after the battle.

 

-Akari

[Jeremiah]

That is nice to hear about the area transition.

 

I don't know if I agree about Power Attack. To non-Jedi characters, power attack will only get them 20 additional damage per round assuming a double weapon and both hits but for a Guardian Jedi with master speed and double weapon on that is 40 additional damage guaranteed if they connect (AB is not an issue with Guardians). I usually end up giving Carth and Canderous Flurry but with Juhani, I max out Power Attack tree as 40 additional damage per round is higher than damage from an additional 5th attack with Master Speed.

[Kdy-worker 1138]

Not really. They still drop at 0 HP or less, and then will get back up after the battle.

 

Sad really..