Resolve! Huh, What is it good for?

[Aramintai]

I'll take the beta testers word for it and assume the change is for the better. Also Sawyer's direct answer to me here:

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/935582874450804736

Wait, wait. Is this for real? Strength gonna replace Might? And Strength gonna affect Fortitude? What about Constitution? It also affects Fortitude. Is gonna be a dupe?

And, dayym, Resolve gonna affect too many things! Healing, spell damage, Deflection and Will?! That's too much, and what is Deflection doing among affects for spellcasters? It should not be in Resolve then. Or it should also be added to another attribute then if we gonna have dupes, Perception for example.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Aramintai

[AndreaColombo]

Wait, wait. Is this for real? Strength gonna replace Might? And Strength gonna affect Fortitude? What about Constitution? It also affects Fortitude. Is gonna be a dupe?

 

That was always the case. MIG/CON affect Fortitude; DEX/PER affect Reflexes; INT/RES affect Will. It was the same in the first game.

[AndreaColombo]

Also, https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/935593185765572608

[dunehunter]

A Max Res Wizard will have higher deflection now. Imagining a wand + small shield, max Res, Arcane Veil wizard, kinda hard to be touched.

 

Comparing before, a 18 Mig 3 Res Wizard and now 3 Mig, 18 Res Wizard, it is 15 deflection difference, and the damage is not affected. 15 Deflection is a lot imo.

Edited November 28, 2017 by dunehunter

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yup! Might is now Strength, Resolve is suddenly important, and some duplicate boosts here and there.

Folks, welcome to the Land of Confusion.

You go to bed, sweat dripping, and wake up to...

[Sedrefilos]

Why do I feel the new systems are way more complicated than the old ones?

[Aramintai]

 

Wait, wait. Is this for real? Strength gonna replace Might? And Strength gonna affect Fortitude? What about Constitution? It also affects Fortitude. Is gonna be a dupe?

 

That was always the case. MIG/CON affect Fortitude; DEX/PER affect Reflexes; INT/RES affect Will. It was the same in the first game.

 

Eh, you're right. Still, Resolve gets too many bonuses. It's looks like a big cover up to hide the fact that Resolve is a real dump stat but devs are too attched to it to simply drop it. Intelligence should affect spells logically, not Resolve. 

And I still reel from the fact that Resolve affects Deflection. And only Resolve. At least give it another attribute too. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Aramintai

[Aramintai]

A Max Res Wizard will have higher deflection now. Imagining a wand + small shield, max Res, Arcane Veil wizard, kinda hard to be touched.

Imagine, a Wizard who pumps only Resolve for spell damage will also get high deflection. The squishy, light armor wizard. While melee characters, who should logically deflect more will get nothing unless they specifically invest in Resolve. That's stupid. Deflection gotta go somewhere else, I say drop it from attributes altogether and apply it only to armor, shields and protective spells or add it another attribute. This seems to be going more in the AD&D direction, may as put deflection to Dexterity, like how it affected Armor Class there.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Aramintai

[dunehunter]

This change suddenly makes Priest specially Druid much more powerful, they have deflection, spell boost and heal in one stats, a no brainer for Druid now.

[theBalthazar]

There is not major problem refferring to this change.

 

I view only one : Multiclass Wizard / Fighter (You will becoming sundenly less effective with Damage Dealing spells). Priest are not totally concerned (especially for buff), only "offensive" spells.

 

Also, Druid :

 

Impossible to stay efficient with spiritshifting (strength ?) and spells (Resolve) at the same time.

Edited November 28, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Climhazzard]

So we're nerfing hybrid builds and giving spellcasters a huge deflection boost over melee builds?  That makes sense....  

 

Losing my faith here....

[IndiraLightfoot]

I keep seeing this "hybrid builds nerfed". I haven't got a calculator ready, but just how bad is it, really?

 

You can't max those two stats needed, but surely you could get them in the 14 range or so. Will it really be such a downer?

No feels, just facts, please.

Edited November 28, 2017 by IndiraLightfoot

[Aramintai]

So we're nerfing hybrid builds and giving spellcasters a huge deflection boost over melee builds?  That makes sense....  

 

Losing my faith here....

I feel the same, it feels stupid.

[Climhazzard]

I keep seeing this "hybrid spells nerfed". I haven't got a calculator ready, but just how bad is it, really?

 

You can't max those two stats needed, but surely you could get them in the 14 range or so. Will it really be such a downer?

No feels, just facts, please.

 

We won't really know until we see how much each boosts damage.  But even if they each boost damage double what might does now hybrids will still have a significantly lower damage boost potential than non hybrids.  

Edited November 28, 2017 by Climhazzard

[theBalthazar]

Yes, this is the end of hybrid build.

 

Not a problem now, with bad casters, but as soon as they are more attractive ....

 

A way to limit multiclass in a sense. Or you make physical or magical concept. Priest + Wizard and Fighter+Barbarian, more easily than Fighter + Wizard.

Edited November 28, 2017 by theBalthazar

[AndreaColombo]

Well, nothing's set in stone. When the new beta lands, let's try the new system and if it's bad, we'll say it. So far Obsidian have been listening quite closely to these boards.

 

I keep seeing this "hybrid spells nerfed". I haven't got a calculator ready, but just how bad is it, really?

 

You can't max those two stats needed, but surely you could get them in the 14 range or so. Will it really be such a downer?

No feels, just facts, please.

 

That depends. If you're roleplaying, perhaps not; if you're number-crunching, yes.

 

I only do pure roleplaying on my first run when I don't know the story. Beyond that it's mostly number-crunching. A build where I have to make compromises is a build I'll never play.

Edited November 28, 2017 by AndreaColombo

[IndiraLightfoot]

This post will probably will come across as whimsical, but in NWN1 (3.0 D&D rules), for example, you had to spread almost all attributes somewhat thin to make some of the best multi-class builds in the game (often involving CHA). Personally, I loved to see those 13, 14 15, 8, etc, rather than 20, 19, 18, 3, 3.. Well, you get it.

 

You can still number crunch - which is great - I love that aspect too.

Edited November 28, 2017 by IndiraLightfoot

[theBalthazar]

With new system :

 

Physical : Ranger / Fighter / Barbarian / Monk / Paladin / Rogue.

 

Magical : Priest / Wizard / Chanter 

 

Mixed : Cipher / Druid.

 

----------------------

 

* The most problematics classes are mixed. Cipher = auto-attack with strength (Obligation...), cast spells. Druid : strength when spiritshift, resolve for spells.

 

* I think to chanter, but normally : Dragon thrashed = resolve now ?

Edited November 28, 2017 by theBalthazar

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

I keep seeing this "hybrid spells nerfed". I haven't got a calculator ready, but just how bad is it, really?

 

You can't max those two stats needed, but surely you could get them in the 14 range or so. Will it really be such a downer?

No feels, just facts, please.

 

We won't really know until we see how much each boosts damage.  But even if they each boost damage double what might does now hybrids will still have a significantly lower damage boost potential than non hybrids.  

 

Obviously, like everybody else, I would be a bit dismayed if in fact hybrid builds became completely non-viable, but I'm pretty sure it won't be that bad. It would be very counter-productive, given the new multiclass system and all.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I snipped this post from another thread. I'll let Gromnir speak for himself:

 

 

Now you can have a caster that can do damage and heal, where is the BALANCE? 

actually, this change makes such a character more difficult to build, if only in a limited way.  for a healer, put points in might at the expense o' resolve were the smart move. as a matter o' fact, we had a deadfire contemplative build which were an absolute monster healer.  a helwalker monk combined with a priest could achieve, at low levels, a might score exceeding 40.  HUGE heals.  HUGE spell damage.  HUGE melee combat damage.  now we gotta make hard choices and our recognition o' how the helwalker were an ironic obvious and counter-intuitive second class for an offensive caster is in the thunder mug.

 

from a practical pov, the change makes sense.  it addresses the resolve-as-dump stat for any non-tank, which has been an issue for a long time.  sure, the change is busting up any number o' potential builds we envisioned, but am gonna see how it plays.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by IndiraLightfoot

[Climhazzard]

Won't strength just become a dump stat instead?  Or rather, my priest would have to choose between the rather lame damage dual wielding scepters was doing for her or boosting her healing power...  which would you choose?

Edited November 28, 2017 by Climhazzard

[Sedrefilos]

It's official: dump stats are in
https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/935600930300469248

 

I don't know how to feel about it; I hope Sawyer's reasoning makes the game better. I for one would want no dump stats + no bad builds but, apparently, this cannot be accomplished.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Won't strength just become a dump stat instead?  

In some cases, sure (dumping a stat in itself is not a problem, I reckon, we all can agree on that), but it won't have a target on its back saying "DUMPSTAT" in capital letters for most interesting builds.

 

In Josh's Words on Twitter:

"it's more important that you *can* make a good build with a stat than it is that you can't dump it."

Edited November 28, 2017 by IndiraLightfoot

[theBalthazar]

It is a dump stat if you are on a magical core. Wizard + Priest for exemple. In this case, you can put 3 in strength.

 

I imagine if you are druid, or cipher, or multiclass Magical/physical, you can put in the two, easily ?

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I keep seeing this "hybrid builds nerfed". I haven't got a calculator ready, but just how bad is it, really?

 

You can't max those two stats needed, but surely you could get them in the 14 range or so. Will it really be such a downer?

No feels, just facts, please.

 

 

The way the math works out for a cipher, you can max Int (necessary), Per (necessary due to hit/miss changes), and then past that whatever points you add in one place, you have to take away from somewhere else -- if you want more Resolve, you have to drop Con, etc.

 

Ciphers have to do weapon damage to gain focus.

 

You can effectively shave  . . . four or so at most . . points off Con IF you're willing to play ranged instead of frontline. 

 

So you can put those four points into one of either Might, Dex, or Resolve.

 

Currently, the general build is to also cut resolve by about six to seven points, and put what you gain from cutting Res and Con into Might and Dex, because that helps casting speed and weapon and spell damage.

 

Next patch, you'll basically have to choose between doing either weapon damage or spell damage  .. . . except that isn't a choice because without weapon damage you'll never get the focus to do spell anything. On the other hand, if you don't pump resolve, your powers won't be effective no matter how much weapon focus you gather. 

 

I don't know how to build a cipher under the new system. Maybe just dump Dex and do everything like you're moving through molasses? 

 

Alternatively the answer might be to just drop all damage-based Cipher powers and play the class as a pure buffer/debuffer.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy