Oh, Priest wherefore art thou?

[Silvaren]

I think that priest's subclasses have no unique selling point. Obsidian team took away general talents. They narrowed down options for each class in terms of abilities, making classes more unique and distinct from each other. They emphasized their role. So why the hell they made priests so generic? There is no much differences between subclasses. The only one "unique" abilities of each priest's sublcass are borrowed from Druids, Wizards and Rogues.

 

Why should I choose Pirest of Berath if I can mutliclass any priest with Druid?

Why should I choose Priest of Eothas if I can multiclass any priest with Fury?

Why should i choose Priest of Magran if I can multiclass any priest with Evoker?

Why should i choose Priest of Skaen if I can multiclass any priest with Rogue?

And why should I choose Priest of Wael if I can multiclass any priest with Wizard or even Trickster?

 

Priests have no unique selling point. They don't say what you get, they say what you won't have. With such narrow choice of (only) active abilities, or rather spells, it's more important what certain subclass banned for player and - ofcourse - roleplay aspect of each priest.

 

Gods take huge role in setting of Eora. I would say it's on the same level as in Forgotten Realms (and as people who made Mask of the Betrayer, Obsidian team should know that better than most of us).

 

Priests are iconic heroes in fantasy settings. In D&D 3X is general pool of spells + two (or more) domains for different flavour of each religion, to make priests distinct from each other.

I would like to see some variation from PoE 1 mixed with D&D 5, where priests have acces to all spells but they can pick small number of bonus "domain" spells, specific for their dieties, to cast without preperation, per encounter from different pool.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Silvaren

[Juodas Varnas]

 

This. That's why I never understand favored behaviours for him: Benevolent and Honest. Maybe Honest is right (in Eothasian Prayer there is a fragment when he would burn you if you work in hidden or shady ways). But Benevolent? I think Passionate suits him better. Even in POE1 if you play as priest of Eothas your specific dialogues often have Passionate tag. Benevolent always sounds more Hylean to me. 

 

 

Hey, we haven't actually met the guy, yet.

 

And although Hylea's priests definitely would have benevolent as a disposition, do you remember how she talked to Pallegina in the first game? That was (unintentionally, I think) really cruel. Gods have very different perspectives from mortals.

 

 

And some Eothas' domains changed in deity description in character creation  

 

Already, from the beta, it looks like we're going to see new sides to all the gods.

 

Well, if you ever betrayed Hylea (promised her to do her way with the souls at the end and do something else) you'd see that she's not so Benevolent...

To be honest, i think her "vengeance" if you piss her off, might be one of the most devastating ones, at least if i recall correctly.

.

.

Like any mother, she's all kind and motherly, but if you piss her off.... WATCH OUT FOR THAT FLIP-FLOP FLYING YOUR WAY!

 

 

Yep, I reckon Gromnir and heaps of other peeps are in for a treat. I love how responsive Obsidian are, and I like the solutions they concoct:

 

Priests have now passed their theology exams, and are ready to go adventuring with the other classes: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/933394936837259264

Hurrah!

Now i feel like an arse for complaining so much. I'm really glad the devs are so responsive to suggestions and complaints. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Juodas Varnas

[Gromnir]

 

 

Priests have no unique selling point. They don't say what you get, they say what you won't have. With such narrow choice of (only) active abilities, or rather spells, it's more important what certain subclass banned for player and - ofcourse - roleplay aspect of each priest.

 

am disagreeing 'bout a lack o' a selling point. the first tier heal is amazing potent given the instantaneous casting. am suspecting there will be an additional insta-heal in the higher level priest talents we ain't yet seen.  in addition, and am knowing it is a far less salient boon given the inexperience we all got with deadfire at this extreme early stage, but afflictions and inspirations is gonna complete change how folks face battles.  in poe, a bunch o' cheesed off druid foes could serious ruin your day by casting recurring storm.  could feel like your party were stunlocked into ineffectuality. in deadfire, if you got a priest in your party, then is likely you got a counter to a large number o' afflictions. cast the correct might inspiration on your party and then laugh off those tree-huggers and their recurring storm.  well, not laugh off 'cause you will still take damage from the lightning.  remind us, which class is the best healer?

 

dire blessing is a bit op at the second.  sure, the graze aspect is not a big need for many classes, but for casters unleashing debuffs and afflictions o' their own, the capacity to graze is hard to appropriate quantify.  sans graze, casters as a whole is punside by the current penetration scheme into ineffectuality.  with graze... *shrug*  if for no other reason, we would find it difficult to voluntarily build a party w/o a priest at this moment. 

 

etc.

 

priest has loads o' potential.  as a caster, multiclassing is inherent suspect. next tier o' abilities is hard to forgo, and is amazing how impactful a well-timed empower can be.  we got a helwalker/priest build am serious considering for our first deadfire run, but if we do so, am thinking it makes sense to take the companion priest as well.  hard to justify two priests with a five-man party, but...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

True, true.

 

The Watchful Guardian is also a good spell atm by the way.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Boeroer

[Silvaren]

am disagreeing 'bout a lack o' a selling point. the first tier heal is amazing potent given the instantaneous casting. am suspecting there will be an additional insta-heal in the higher level priest talents we ain't yet seen.  in addition, and am knowing it is a far less salient boon given the inexperience we all got with deadfire at this extreme early stage, but afflictions and inspirations is gonna complete change how folks face battles.  in poe, a bunch o' cheesed off druid foes could serious ruin your day by casting recurring storm.  could feel like your party were stunlocked into ineffectuality. in deadfire, if you got a priest in your party, then is likely you got a counter to a large number o' afflictions. cast the correct might inspiration on your party and then laugh off those tree-huggers and their recurring storm.  well, not laugh off 'cause you will still take damage from the lightning.  remind us, which class is the best healer?

 

dire blessing is a bit op at the second.  sure, the graze aspect is not a big need for many classes, but for casters unleashing debuffs and afflictions o' their own, the capacity to graze is hard to appropriate quantify.  sans graze, casters as a whole is punside by the current penetration scheme into ineffectuality.  with graze... *shrug*  if for no other reason, we would find it difficult to voluntarily build a party w/o a priest at this moment. 

 

etc.

 

priest has loads o' potential.  as a caster, multiclassing is inherent suspect. next tier o' abilities is hard to forgo, and is amazing how impactful a well-timed empower can be.  we got a helwalker/priest build am serious considering for our first deadfire run, but if we do so, am thinking it makes sense to take the companion priest as well.  hard to justify two priests with a five-man party, but...

 

HA! Good Fun!

I mean that priest's subclasses doesn't have anything special to catch interest of player. What makes you choose certain priest's subclass over another priest's subclass? Answer is - the things that are banned (mechanically it's the most important factor), then roleplay and maybe god's favoured weapon. I think it's bad design if you can't pick something what is cool (there are no cool unique abilities for each priest's subclass) but you pick something which sucks less than other choices (banned set of spells). All "unique" subclass specific abilities are probably better merged via multiclass system at the moment.

 

Priest as general idea is great, but not in current, narrow form. For me, priest's subclasses have no unique selling point if you compare benefits and tradeoffs granted from different classes' subclasses (just for context reason). You choose devoted fighter or unbroken, berserker, corpse eater, shifter, fury etc. because these subclasses grant something cool, not because they suck less in compare with other choices you have. Your decision should be based on benefits, not on drawbacks.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Silvaren

[Christliar]

I think that priest's subclasses have no unique selling point.

 

The allure to being a Priest of Skaen/something else instead of Priest/Rogue is that you can essentially triple-class. A Priest of Skaen/Devoted is kind of a Priest/Fighter/Rogue triple-class, which is cool. That's a pretty unique selling point if you ask me.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Christliar

[Gromnir]

well, the priest subclasses current have school prohibitions and a few bonus spells.  priests o' skaen get the baby sneak attack too.  the school prohibitions is impactful and a few o' the bonus spells is intriguing.  in spite o' limited options, skaen and wael appear to have particular but very different advantages o'er the other subclasses.

 

*shrug*

 

am gonna wait to see what is done with the altered subclasses.  feels a bit pointless to rail 'bout something which will be gone like a fart in the wind after the next build release. am glad something is being done as the priest does have potential, but options is so limited at the moment.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Christliar]

If I understood JS's tweet correctly, they are removing the restricted schools and all Priests have access to all spells.

[morhilane]

If I understood JS's tweet correctly, they are removing the restricted schools and all Priests have access to all spells.

Wouhou, you get to pick two spells among 6 instead of 4 (in some cases 5 instead of 6 because some of the new mandatory free spells are from the spell list).

[Christliar]

He also said all spellcasters are going to be able to get more than 2 spells per level.

[Silvaren]

@Christliar

Good news then, but I would like to see some passive skills as well. In PoE casters gained abilities, talents and spells, now there are only spells to gain.

[theBalthazar]

Do you think that with these new rules, the priest has enough spells each level ?

[Christliar]

@Christliar

Good news then, but I would like to see some passive skills as well. In PoE casters gained abilities, talents and spells, now there are only spells to gain.

They have already said they are going to re-implement general talents.

[ghostwriter]

Really dislike Priest of Wael getting access to a spell like Gaze of the Adragan. That's as close as it gets to a trademark wizard ability. It would be like other classes having access to Sacred Immolation or Triggered Immunity.

[dam]

Really dislike Priest of Wael getting access to a spell like Gaze of the Adragan. That's as close as it gets to a trademark wizard ability. It would be like other classes having access to Sacred Immolation or Triggered Immunity.

 

Erm, like, for example, via magic items say ?

 

*cough* *cough*

[dam]

He also said all spellcasters are going to be able to get more than 2 spells per level.

 

The wording is confusing IMHO, it is unclear whether what was said was "casters are going to be able to get more than 2 more spell casts per encounter per level", or "casters are going to be able to pick more spells".

 

Would you be able to clarify ?

[ghostwriter]

 

Really dislike Priest of Wael getting access to a spell like Gaze of the Adragan. That's as close as it gets to a trademark wizard ability. It would be like other classes having access to Sacred Immolation or Triggered Immunity.

 

Erm, like, for example, via magic items say ?

 

*cough* *cough*

 

 

Haha exactly... that ability alone made that armour probably the best in the game. However to have it be part of another classes ability tree would cheapen it imo

[dam]

 

 

Really dislike Priest of Wael getting access to a spell like Gaze of the Adragan. That's as close as it gets to a trademark wizard ability. It would be like other classes having access to Sacred Immolation or Triggered Immunity.

 

Erm, like, for example, via magic items say ?

 

*cough* *cough*

 

 

Haha exactly... that ability alone made that armour probably the best in the game. However to have it be part of another classes ability tree would cheapen it imo

 

 

The problem is, you just cannot give that specialized class too lousy an ability, or people just won't pick it (outside of RP).

 

It has to either :

- be (moderately) powerful, so that you can use it in a bind to try and recover from a bad situation

- be distinctive, so that your character/class feels and plays a bit differently

- or unlock some kind of unique/interesting interaction with another class or ability, some synergy

 

 

Bad examples include :

- all melee attacks now deal +5% fire damage on primordials wearing halloween hats, if made between 2 AM and 7 AM

^--- yeah so... yeah ok... any other garbage you wanted to throw in our faces ?

[ghostwriter]

Well the obvious solution is to come up with new, useful abilities at higher levels that would be specific to the priest deity. It would be more work, but would result in a far more interesting class. Just taking iconic abilities from other classes seems too easy to me... "Hey we were looking to spice up the monk subclasses, so we're planning on giving one of them access to Heart of Fury". What?

[Christliar]

 

He also said all spellcasters are going to be able to get more than 2 spells per level.

 

The wording is confusing IMHO, it is unclear whether what was said was "casters are going to be able to get more than 2 more spell casts per encounter per level", or "casters are going to be able to pick more spells".

 

Would you be able to clarify ?

 

I think he means they are going to be able to pick more spells, not get more casts per encounter. Otherwise he wouldn't bring up grimoires and their spell selection.