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Multi-class exclusive abilties?


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#1
Archaven

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Was it mentioned that there will be exclusive multi-class abilities? It would be great if they have and sorry if was mentioned before.



#2
Night Stalker

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I don't think there has and I don't think there will be.

#3
Skaddix

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we know a few for the wizard I think, Transmutation has Ogre Form and Conjurer has a Summon Companion



#4
Juodas Varnas

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we know a few for the wizard I think, Transmutation has Ogre Form and Conjurer has a Summon Companion

Aren't those 'sub-classes' and not multi-classes?


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#5
cheesevillain

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we know a few for the wizard I think, Transmutation has Ogre Form and Conjurer has a Summon Companion

Aren't those 'sub-classes' and not multi-classes?

 

 

Correct. There are sub-class specific abilities, but no multi class specific abilities.

 

No wonder. That'd be about 55 unique abilities, each one of which most players would never see.



#6
Skaddix

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we know a few for the wizard I think, Transmutation has Ogre Form and Conjurer has a Summon Companion

Aren't those 'sub-classes' and not multi-classes?

 

 

Ah my bad misread.  Yeah no multiclass specific abilities. 



#7
blotter

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I like the idea of multiclass abilities, but as others have said, there's no indication that they'll be introduced into Deadfire and there are good reasons not to expect them. Some that haven't been mentioned are questions as to which power source applies to the ability (if that matters), whether a sufficient range of these abilities could be introduced without encroaching on the features of other classes (as per the example I provide below), how the existence of multiclass abilities might exacerbate balance issues where class combination synergies are concerned, and whether adding them into the mix would disincentivize single class selection to an unacceptable degree (whether in terms of balance or in terms of making single class character options potentially seem "boring"/neglected by comparison).

 

That said... In reference to:

 

No wonder. That'd be about 55 unique abilities, each one of which most players would never see.

 

There are ways of approaching it that could potentially require fewer of them to be created while also expanding the range of potential class combinations that can select them. For example, let's say they wanted to introduce some kind of Blazing Onslaught attack ability (ignoring for the moment that it sounds like a total ripoff of Flames of Devotion): for its requirements, they could have a list of fire spells from the wizard's, priest's, and/or druid's spell lists that qualify, and similarly have a list of melee attack abilities from the barbarian's, fighter's, or rogue's lists that would qualify.

 

Of course, if a prospective combination ability involved class-specific resources, like Wounds or Phrases, the classes and class combinations that could select it would necessarily be limited, but otherwise, the prerequisites for such abilities could potentially be a fair bit more flexible.

 

A similar but different concept that might be easier to implement is multiclass talents, which passively boost existing class abilities or features in some way that's related to the other class in the pair, like a priest/fighter talent that brands your engaged targets with the symbol of your faith (which wouldn't necessarily need to be anything more than flavor text in practice), increasing the duration or intensity of spell-based afflictions you impose upon them while you continue to engage them.


Edited by blotter, 05 November 2017 - 12:04 PM.


#8
cheesevillain

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Those are some excellent ideas, but is that really how you would want multi-class exclusive abilities to be?

For me, the most important part of multi-class abilities would be the cool factor. If the abilities did not look and feel unique for each class combination, I'd be disappointed.



#9
blotter

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Those are some excellent ideas, but is that really how you would want multi-class exclusive abilities to be?

For me, the most important part of multi-class abilities would be the cool factor. If the abilities did not look and feel unique for each class combination, I'd be disappointed.

 

That is a fair point, but even so, I think there is some room for compromise between totally generic shared multiclass abilities and hyperfocused multiclass abilities that are possible only for specific class combinations. For example, subtle variations in ability mechanics based on the classes used to qualify for them might be possible, similar to what we see with some soulbound items in Pillars 1. A mix between multiclass abilities which have varying specificities is another possibility if more than one ability per combination is considered (and having only one per each would also mean there's a high chance of completely missing what players who chose the combinations are looking from them, which could be pretty disappointing as well). 

 

I think a lot of it comes down to the design of the abilities in question, though. If their base mechanics allow them to play out in different ways in relation to the features of the classes involved (not that I can come up with a good example on the spot, unfortunately), then it may not matter as much if others can get the same ability since the class combinations would introduce unique and hopefully interesting variations in their use. That said, going this route would just be exchanging one challenge/potential obstacle to the introduction of multiclass abilities for another, since making a smaller number of shared abilities with meaningful class-based variations in mechanics could actually be harder than making more multiclass abilities that don't have that requirement.



#10
Enoch

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​​Why would there be?

I mean, if you're going to design unique abilities for multi-class pairings, you shouldn't be calling it "multi-classing" at all-- what you've got there is 55 base classes and no multi-classing options. 


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#11
rjshae

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No wonder. That'd be about 55 unique abilities, each one of which most players would never see.

 

That's a good point. For economic reasons they would likely need to group them into synergies where the player benefits from specific combinations of classes. For example, a monk talent could allow the character to be more resistant to interrupts while spell casting, but a cost of longer recovery from the interrupted spell cast. A Wizard with a melee class could increase their duration with summoned weapons. A Ranger could cast self spells onto his companion, or touch spells through his companion. &c.






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