Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

[CLASS BUILD] The Untank (The Unconventional Barbarian Tank)


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
[CLASS BUILD] The Untank (The Unconventional Barbarian Tank)
 
Build Environment
 
Version 3.06 with White March Part I & II
 
Attached File  image.jpg   29.43KB   1 downloads
 
 
Core Concept

A Barbarian who is built to quite literally facetank dragons. But instead of the usual traditional tank of max'ing deflection through high RES, the Untank dumps RES to deliberately get crit'ed by enemies to trigger various crit effects. In particular, a synergy with Steadfast which is not commonly found in builds I have seen. 
 
The stat spread and weapons sets selection enables the Untank to do an initial high dmg burst to adds. And subsequently go into "Untank" mode in which it can facetank enemies via multiple self healing sources and high % healing received, while still dealing decent dmg via retaliation.

 
Inspiration
 
I previously did playthrough that involves a retaliation build that is heavily based on Dr <3's The Anvil. From that playthrough, I had a good sense of how a retaliation tank could perform and was impressed by the build's ability to soak up dmg and deal retaliatory dmg at the same time. However for that playthrough, I still had a traditional Paladin support tank for the signature encounters.
 
After that success Frozen Crown playthrough, I wanted to up the ante by (i) reducing party size to 4, (ii) not having a priest, (iii) playing on PotD ToI and (iv) not having a traditional tank to engage boss in key encounters. I decided on a Barb as a dmg sponge as the class has the best endurance/health pool of all classes. And with the knowledge gained from the retaliation monk playthrough, I started to devise a viable tank build that does not rely on straight up dmg avoidance for its staying power. 


Personal Playthrough Experience

With the restrictions in place, I have decided a party of the Untank together with The Yellow Flash, a Support/DPS Boar Druid and a CC/DPS Wizard. At the point of this build post, I have completed all Bounties, WM 1 & 2, Concelhaut, all Dragon Fights. Whats left is Burial Isle and the last fight with Thaos. There is not much healing support available via the party - mainly coming from the druid's Moonwell, Nature's Vigor, Nature's Balm. Most of the Untank staying power comes from its items and abilities. For all signature fights, the Untank is tasked to melee engaged all the bosses. Doing so against the bosses, the Untank has not been knocked out even once (although the Untank's team mates did get knocked out).


Recommended Stats Allocation
(Race: Costal Auamua / Culture: The Living Lands)
 
Mig: 21
Con: 16
Dex: 8
Per: 15
Int: 15
Res: 3
 
Recommended Races
 
Coastal Auamua
Enables the Untank to push the limit of dmg and healing due to +2 Mig, and makes it make resistance to prone/stun which can impact the Untank's survivability.
 
Fire Godlike
There are items which improve the Untank survivability at low Endurance. Can be considered if you have a Priest as to half keep the Untank at under 50% Endurance more consistently.
 
Pale Elf
The added Fire and Freeze DR is nice for a tank built to soak up dmg.

Boreal Dwarf *
The added accuracy to Wilder and Primordial types is nice for a more offensive approach if one can spare more buffs from team mates

 
 
Race and Culture
 
Cultural Background
The Living Lands (+1 Mig) - Colonist (+2 Surv)
 
Skills: Stealth 2, Athletics 5, Lore 5, Mechanics 0, Survival 14
 
Recommended Items
(a=auto, r=recommended, !=important)
For Normal Encounters
Recommended Items
Head: Maegfolc Skull (!) / Executioner's Hood * (Before: Hermit's Hat)
Body: Sanguine Plate (!) (Before: Plate Armour)
Neck: Swaddling Sheet ® / Hiro's Mantle (Before: Cloak of Protection)
Gloves: Gloves of Swift Action / Pilferer's Grip / Mourning Gloves * (Before: Forgemaster's Gloves / Gauntlets of Accuracy)
Belt: Girdle of Mortal Protection ® / Girdle of Maegfolc Might
Legs: Shod-in-Faith (!)
Rings: Ring of Thorns / Circle of Iron (!) / Pensiavi mes Rèi (Before: Ring of Deflection / Ring of Protection)
Weapons:
Set 1: Bittercut / Resolution / Purgatory (Before: Sabres)
Set 2: Strike Hard / Godansthunyr / Captain Viccilo's Anger / Dragon's Maw (!) (Before: Hatchet / Small Shield)
 
 
For Signature / Dragon Encounters
Recommended Items
Head: Maegfolc Skull (!)
Body: He Carries Many Scars (!) / Blackwarden's Breastplate *
Neck: Hiro's Mantle / Rymgard's Mantle
Gloves: Gloves of Swift Action / Pilferer's Grip
Belt: Belt of Bountiful Healing (!)
Legs: Shod-in-Faith (!)
Rings: Ring of Thorns / Circle of Iron (!)
Weapons:
Set 1: Steadfast (!) / Dragon's Maw (!)
Set 2: Hatchet / Ilfan Byrngar's Solace / St Ydwin's Redeemer
Notable Consumables:
Ripple Sponge ®
Potion of Flame Shield ®
 
 
Recommended Talents

Veteran's Recovery (!)
Stalwart Defiance (!)
Weapon Focus: Ruffian
Bear's Fortitude ®
Accurate Carnage
Weapon And Shield Style (!)
Body Control
Unstoppable


Recommended Abilities
 
Towering Physique (a)
Carnage (a)
Barbaric Yell ®
Savage Defiance (!)
One Stands Alone (!)
Wild Sprint
Threatening Presence
Heart of Fury (!)
Barbaric Retaliation (!)
Dragon Leap ®
 
 
Playstyle Explanation
Usage during Normal Encounters
Always start the encounter with weapon set 1 dual weapons first. This will ensure that the Untank's deflection is low and can trigger the on-hit-by-crit effects near the start of the encounter. There are 3 notable ones are Conscreated Ground, Overwhelming Wave and Frenzy. Conscreated Ground is to provide sustained healing for both the barb and other frontliners, and with High Mig and decent Int it will have a good healing effect and coverage. Overwhelming Wave from Swaddling Sheet is extremely useful. The Untank's decent PER and INT will increase the chances and landing and also help to ensure that the stun duration is good if it lands. The several seconds of stun can give a lot of breathing room for preparation and positioning. Frenzy from Sanguine Plate has the advantage of being instacast and the Untank do not need to wait for the activation animation, and there isn't recovery after. The advantages can be used to get a better HoF activation amongst other things.
 
Start the battle by looking out for a good HoF activation. Twin sabres setup should translate into good dmg. Bittercut is nice for dual dmg type and Resolution/Purgatory has Annihilation which can further improve crit dmg.  Your team mates can help prep the battlefield by using CC effects.
 
After HoF is triggered, switch to a Weapon and Shield set and proceed to tank and dps the remaining enemies. Strike Hard is nice as it has Speed Enchantment which can help with the Untank low attack speed, and Disorienting doesn't rely on a crit for it to apply and will improve the susceptibility to future attacks. Also it doesn't decrease the enemy's ACC so the enemy will more likely hit to barb to trigger Barbaric Retaliation. If there is means to improve the Barb's ACC via support from a pally or priest, consider using Godansthunyr for AoE disable. Captain Viccilo's Anger is also a decent choice. Survivability should not be an issue. If endurance runs low, you can activate Savage Healing or rely the triggers from Maegfolc Skull (Unbending when Endurance is below half) and Dragon's Maw (Savage Defiance when Endurance is below half)
 
Usage during Signature / Dragon Encounters
Before you start the battle, camp to get the +60% healing received buff from Survival 14. Together with Belt of Bountiful Healing, you can get 85% healing received.
 
Also besides the usual consumables, you should eat a Ripple Sponage and avoid eating Wyrthoneg. Ripple Sponge is for reducing the RES and Will of the Untank so that the Untank becomes more susceptible to Will attacks. Although Steadfast increase Will by 7, eating Ripple Sponge can reduce RES by 3 (min of RES 1) or Wil by 6. So it is a net gain of 1 Will. Not to mention a usefult gain of 10% Endurance.
 
You should also consume Potions of Flame Shield for added retaliatory dmg.
 
You should start the encounter with Steadfast and Dragon's Maw setup. In many signature fights, bosses tend to have an aura that will consistently pulse to apply Frightened or Terrified debuff. With the intentional low Will save of the Untank, there is an increased likelihood of getting crit'ed by the Frightened or Terrified debuff but a fully unlocked Steadfast will prevent both effects. However, the Steadfast effect of 20% chance to cast Restore Major Endurance when hit by a Critical Hit can trigger even though the Untank is immune to the Frightened / Terrified effects. The pulse rate is about once per 3secs so Steadfast can be treated as a psuedo passive source of Restore Major Endurance that is further augmented by High Mig and the +85% Healing received. This is addition to the other spell triggers of Maegfolc Skull, Dragon's Maw and Shod-in-Faith. This creates an interesting situation where the Untank has enough of an Endurance Pool to absorb high spike dmg, enough stacked healing to heal through it, and enough Health due to Barbarian class health modifier to avoid running out of Health. The lowest health I have experienced on the Untank was during the Lenegrath's battle where the Untank ended the fight at about 30% health. Of course, this will means copious usage of scrolls/spells of Prayers Against X. If you have a Priest, try to avoid casting spells that can improve the Will save of the Untank.
 
In addition there is increased DR effect when the Untank gets to low health (<25%) trigger by He Carries Many Scars and low endurance (<26%) by Iron Ring. These will improve the Untank's chances of surviving the next attacks before the stated healing can take effect.
 
 
Build Synergy Recap
 
The first part of the build is to leverage on the Untank fairly offensive orientated stat spread for delivering a solid opener via HoF. Once it goes into "Untank Mode", it uses high healing effectiveness coupled with high endurance/health to hold the frontline so that the party can continue the offensive, while still dealing decent dmg via Barbaric Retaliation.
 
In signature fights, te Untank make use of high healing received buffs coupled with multiple healing sources to retain engagement on the bosses. In particular the synergy between Steadfast and Fear Aura is pretty nice and is quite effective. The result of these are that Untank can tank dangerous enemies, similar to traditional tanks but with a different mechanics. This is one of the biggest takeaway from creating this build, and having a full playthrough using it.
 
 
Special Note

- Unlike common recommendations, do not durganize the chest armour piece for the Untank. Reduction in crit rate can potentially interfere with the synergy of the intentional crit effects.

- * Including recommendations by MaxQuest and Boeroer based on thread replies.


 
 
Proof of Concept
 
Below is a screenshot of combat log portion that shows the synergy of Steadfast with Fear Aura (Alpine Dragon)
 
Attached File  Fear Crit 2.jpg   306.23KB   2 downloads

Edited by mosspit, 19 October 2017 - 04:02 AM.

  • MaxQuest and hansvedic like this

#2
MaxQuest

MaxQuest

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2031 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
- I would also consider Boreal Dwarf for recommended races. You can get +2 MIG as with aumaua, plus +15 acc vs 2/6 of creature categories is really neat, especially assuming that with beasts and vessels you can have a priest to deal with, while xaurips and other trash is on barbarian.
 
- Regarding lore: you don't need 5), it's either 4, 6 or 8.
 
- If you rely on Shod-in-Faith proc'ing, you might also want to try Swaddling Sheet cloak. Love this combo.
 
- You might spare one ability slot, specifically Threatening Presence is an overkill IF you have a priest with Painful Interdiction, because Weakened overrides Sickened effect.
 
- He Carries Many Scars - is a top choice armor, but I think it's worth listing 2 possible alternatives: Hunter's Mail (which goes well with the healing theme of the build) and Blackwarden's Breastplate (could be useful during dragon fights due to the +15 acc)

#3
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 12666 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
May I suggest the Executioner's Hood? Besides the fear aura is also heals you after each kill. With HoF that's usually a full heal.

Since you don't have Frenzy you might want to try Mourning Gloves. They also heal after each kill (maybe suppression with Exec. Hood?) and will give you a speed buff. They seem to be good for this build.

#4
hansvedic

hansvedic

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 132 posts

Would a Mountain Dwarf with this build pair well with the Bilestomper build, perhaps?

That could be a fun combo.



#5
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
@Maxquest:

- Boreal Dwarf is definitely viable for a more offensive approach. I will include this.

- For Lore 5 and the skill allocation in general, it was just clear the points at lvl 16. The most important imo is Athletics of at least 4 for scripted events and early game healing, and Survival of 14. The rest are completely optional.

- I did recommend Swaddling Sheet for Overwhelming Wave proc for normal encounters. I agree that it is really really good. Just that for signature fights, It loses a lot of its appeal since it does not offer any stat increase beyond the CC trigger. Recall agony is nice but I feel like the Untank needs a better item in the neck slot to justify the slot in extended fights.

- Threatening Presence is just something I liked, plus I didn't have a Priest. Tbh, that ability slot is quite flexible. Thick Skinned might be a good alternative.

- Interestingly enough, I did consider Hunter's Mail and did a bit of research on it. I even went to Mowrghek Ien early to get the armour and upgraded it to Exception. Then I found this post under the bug reports. Turns out the regen effect only triggered by incoming corrode dmg, which really reduced it's usability. I will include Blackwarden's Breastplate for a more offensive approach.

@Boeroer:

- Executioner's Hood is a good recommendation for trash encounter. I will include it, just have to sub out Ring of Thorns for Pensiavi mes Rèi or Girdle of Mortal Protection with Girdle of Maegfolc Might.

- I do have Frenzy via Sanguine Plate. Usually for trash encounter, Frenzy covers most of the battle duration. But Mourning Gloves some useful effects. Tbh, the gloves slot is quite flexible. I will include this too for trash encounters.

Edited by mosspit, 18 October 2017 - 02:56 PM.


#6
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
@hansvedic

There is some potential synergy in the pairing. The Untank excels in self healing and enough Endurance/Health to take a beating so the Untank can handle the spells coming from Bilestomper. Maybe.

In this specific, Hunter's Mail could be viable if the healing from corrode dmg can come from a friendly source. I havent tested this, but apprarently I read that Obs changed the interaction of friendly cold dmg and Rymgard's Mantle. So no idea if the changes has spread to Hunter's Mail.

Edit: If Bilstomper features any DoT ground effects, it could potentially trigger Steadfast's 20% Restore Major Endurance on hit by crit effects.

Edited by mosspit, 18 October 2017 - 03:16 PM.


#7
Braven

Braven

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 615 posts
Note: The “He who wears scars” DR bonus happens when at low -health-, not endurance as stated in post.

I like the idea of purposely getting crit by will attacks. It is easy to forget that items trigger on non-deflection attacks too. Wonder if this works well with another class that does not need Int so thst Will can be dropped even further. Ranger doesn’t need Int and also has the same steadfast benefit. I guess you really need that huge barbarian endurance and health pool, though, to make it work.

Edited by Braven, 18 October 2017 - 04:16 PM.


#8
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
@Braven:

For He Carries Many Scars, I actually did some due diligence before creating the build post. Unless my memory failed me, what I found was that the ingame description for He Carries Many Scars does in fact states Endurance as the trigger criteria, not Health. The wiki on the other hand, state Health. And to top it off, Pallegina's Breastplate ingame description with a somewhat similar effects uses Health as the criteria.
Unless anyone has knowledge on this apparent discrepancy, I will run some tests later when Im freed up. But if the criteria is indeed Health, it still has a good use in extended boss fights.

Glad I piqued your interest :)
I think it is because it is also partly due to the Soulbound nature of the weapon. If Steadfast was lash-able and durganized-able, maybe the crit effect would have caught on faster. I did do a preliminary search but alas I found no good mention on this. That's why I wanted to do a proper playthrough using the Untank build to confirm my suspicion.

Indeed Ranger might make Steadfast work, if I'm not wrong "Hunter's Grief" lowers RES too. So yeah, I can't be sure of the Ranger's ability to handle spike dmg unless I have proper playthrough experience to reference. But yes, a high Endurance/Health pool is part of the synergy.

Edited by mosspit, 18 October 2017 - 04:58 PM.


#9
Braven

Braven

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 615 posts

@Braven:

For He Carries Many Scars, I actually did some due diligence before creating the build post. Unless my memory failed me, what I found was that the ingame description for He Carries Many Scars does in fact states Endurance as the trigger criteria, not Health. The wiki on the other hand, state Health. And to top it off, Pallegina's Breastplate ingame description with a somewhat similar effects uses Health as the criteria.
Unless anyone has knowledge on this apparent discrepancy, I will run some tests later when Im freed up. But if the criteria is indeed Health, it still has a good use in extended boss fights.

Glad I piqued your interest :)
I think it is because it is also partly due to the Soulbound nature of the weapon. If Steadfast was lash-able and durganized-able, maybe the crit effect would have caught on faster. I did do a preliminary search but alas I found no good mention on this. That's why I wanted to do a proper playthrough using the Untank build to confirm my suspicion.

Indeed Ranger might make Steadfast work, if I'm not wrong "Hunter's Grief" lowers RES too. So yeah, I can't be sure of the Ranger's ability to handle spike dmg unless I have proper playthrough experience to reference. But yes, a high Endurance/Health pool is part of the synergy.


The wiki actually says it both ways. On the listing page it says endurance and on the Scars-specific page it says health. It is actually the exact same enchantment as pellegina’s breastplate. I have tested and confirmed it to be triggered by health in game in the past.

#10
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
@Braven:

I stand corrected. Apparently my memory failed me. Nonetheless, He Carries Many Scars still has the peresistent regen going for it. And even though the criteria is Health, it still is good for extended fights.

Edited by mosspit, 19 October 2017 - 04:03 AM.


#11
Braven

Braven

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 615 posts

@Braven:

I stand corrected. Apparently my memory failed me. Nonetheless, He Carries Many Scars still has the peresistent regen going for it. And even though the criteria is Health, it still is good for extended fights.

I agree, it is great armor particularly for your build. In dome ways being health is better. You don’t really want to be under 25% endurance anyway; but running low on health is more common. Helps the long fights and can extend adventuring time before needing to rest since low health is less scary.

One of the great things about that armor is that it has enchantment space to both give +2 to a stat and get to legendary quality. By comparison, Sanguine armor can only reach exceptional with a +2 stat enchantment. This makes it particularly good for the late game.

Edited by Braven, 19 October 2017 - 05:04 AM.


#12
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
Haha depends. I play with maim disabled. Means the character will be permanently gone if Health reaches zero the first time.

#13
kolvanmaul

kolvanmaul

    (0) Nub

  • Initiates
  • 2 posts

What enhancements do you recommend on armor and weapons?

Also will this build work with main companions ( aloth , hiravias, eder)



#14
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
For weapon, definitely lashing. Type doesn’t matter too much. However if you would decide take one elemental talent, spirit of decay with a corrode lashed bittercut is not bad

For armour crush proof is ok. The barb generally needs Mig, Con and Per. Which is easy to get on other equipment slots. But try not to durganize it. You don’t want to lower crit chance against this barb

You can definitely use official companions. The point of this barb is not to rely on buffs and support too much to carry out its Untank capabilities.

#15
hansvedic

hansvedic

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 132 posts

Mosspit,

 

Thanks for this interesting build concept. 

I'm currently on a playthrough with a similar build, except it's a dwarf druid with 20 in constitution to make up for the lower health of the druid. So far, it's pretty fun to be able tank and cast whether shifted or not.

I'm looking forward to getting Steadfast on this character. EDIT:  I really appreciate your insight into Steadfast's Restore Endurance spelldefense.


Edited by hansvedic, 27 January 2018 - 01:05 PM.

  • mosspit likes this

#16
mosspit

mosspit

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 728 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
Thanks for your kind words good sir :)
  • hansvedic likes this

#17
Cerealnumber

Cerealnumber

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 6 posts
Hello all! I just got into this game and am having a blast so far! I realize this is a semi necro but I wanted info on this exact build.

This build sounds super fun but I’m wondering how does a build like this avoid having to rest constantly from losing health. I’m not a huge fan of how health/endurance works in this game already, but it seems exchanging deflection for healing would make this issue worse. I’m assuming I’m missing something. Thanks in advance for your help!

#18
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 12666 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Barbarians have a huge health pool. In the early game that doesn't help much (because in flat numbers it's not that much at lvl 1), but every level adds more and more "meat". More than other classes get. I once had a Barb with around 6000 health. It takes a lot of time to reduce that to zero. ;)

Usually it's enough to endure several encounters and other party members will force you to rest earlier than this guy.

If you feel it's too much you can use Potions of Infuse with Vital Essence. They will give you back health.

I did an Ultimate Playtrough (solo on PotD difficulty with expert mode and several other rules) with a low deflection/high healing barb and low health wasn't a big problem after some levels.

Barbs (no matter the build) are always a bit squishy in the first few levels. If you can endure this you will be rewarded.

Edited by Boeroer, 12 October 2018 - 04:45 AM.


#19
Cerealnumber

Cerealnumber

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Thank you very much for the clarification Boeroer. I had seen that Barbarians had "more health" but i never imagined it was by such a gigantic margin! That makes me way more comfortable with the idea.  I am almost assuredly going to use this build once I find my first barbarian companion.  I just got to defiance bay and opened up all three rep shops.

 

I am currently doing my first playthrough of POE using your Counselor Ploi as a template for my main character on POTD.  He is great and I love him. My entire team is fairly sturdy and I don't have to rest very often.  My main cause for a rest currently is if a pull goes south and my cleric has to spam all his magic (which is insane how powerful that can be) but then hes left as an auto attack bot until I rest.

 

I'm very happy with my entire team except for Eder.  There's nothing "wrong" with him at all, and he "tanks great". hes just kind of boring for my taste.....human/fighter..... we have those irl, lol.  His knockdowns are very valuable but I'm eager to replace him.



#20
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 12666 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Yes, fighters can be a little boring. :)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users