Four man PoTD team

[Ymiraku]

Hey guys I was wondering if i could get some suggestions for an effective four man PoTD party. Last time I played PoTD it was before white march came out and with a 5 man party of two fighters, two priests and a druid, ever since then I have played hard mode duo's and trio's but want to have another go at PoTD.

 

I was wondering if this would be a viable and powerful four man party for PoTD

 

1.) Fire god-like paladin tank

2.) Chanter dragon wailed tank/offtank.

3.) Moon godlike priest of eothas

4.) A wizard or cipher with high perception and intelligence.

 

Is this viable? or should I go for a 5 man party and throw a dps fighter or barb into the mix?

[mosspit]

Hmm once it hits these kind of rarer configurations, it becomes quite situational. It also depends on other restrictions (if any) like no split pulling. Maybe others have better insight on specific battles.

 

If I may comment, it will be having race of the paladin be some other non godlike race. In my experience, if things go south they tend to do so fast. Not easy to maintain a paladin at lower than 50% endurance for battleforged and it is risky too. So sacrificing a headslot for something this situational is debatable. Plus, (if im wrong pls let me know), battleforged retaliation depends on being hit and a paladin's high defence might make it difficult to utilize this even if battleforged is on. OTOH with a headgear, paladin can wear Maegfolc Skull which is a pretty amazing tank item.

 

Coincidentally, I am currently doing a 4man ToI PotD playthrough too. Had a restart in Anslog Compass due to unfamiliarity with my setup but so far still manageable.

 

I am using

- Barbarian (multiple weapon config, dmg sponge via accelerated healing)

- Rogue offtank (melee riposte, high defense, possible good single target potential)

- Druid (boar and constant AoE CC via storms, AoE dmg)

- Wizard (Spike defense and AoE CC)

 

Not optimized, more for fun. No idea how far I can push this party lol

Edited October 4, 2017 by mosspit

[Moneo]

A pally, a wizard and a priest compose the core of your team, so you have a tank, a buffer/healer, a debuffer/cc/magical DD, and this is a pretty decent and, in my opinion, viable team. I'd suggested adding a physical damager to your team. A fighter, a barb or a rogue would go, though the latter is quite squishy. But a good idea is to add a melee DW cipher. He performs as a good damager, and furhermore, he has his cool powers, so he'd be less squishy than a rogue and more helpful for the team than fighter or barb.

 

After all, a cipher is a great PoE novelty and a very interesting RPG idea. One needs to have a totally perverted imagination to invent such a filthy sadistic abomination, who inflicts physical pain just in order to torture his victims also mentally. Looking at this Chikatilo moron, you can only think "I definitely need such a cruel guy in my butcher squad!"

[Ymiraku]

A pally, a wizard and a priest compose the core of your team, so you have a tank, a buffer/healer, a debuffer/cc/magical DD, and this is a pretty decent and, in my opinion, viable team. I'd suggested adding a physical damager to your team. A fighter, a barb or a rogue would go, though the latter is quite squishy. But a good idea is to add a melee DW cipher. He performs as a good damager, and furhermore, he has his cool powers, so he'd be less squishy than a rogue and more helpful for the team than fighter or barb.

 

After all, a cipher is a great PoE novelty and a very interesting RPG idea. One needs to have a totally perverted imagination to invent such a filthy sadistic abomination, who inflicts physical pain just in order to torture his victims also mentally. Looking at this Chikatilo moron, you can only think "I definitely need such a cruel guy in my butcher squad!"

I've never tried a melee cipher before. I have always just used guns with cipher and played them from range. I thought with melee weapons and in melee range they would max focus too often and lose soul whip then get interrupted when you try to cast. 

 

How would I build a melee dps fighter? Would I stack some resolve?

 

Another question: would it be viable to have a ranged cipher instead of a wizard in PoTD?

Edited October 4, 2017 by Ymiraku

[Moneo]

Well, frankily saying, I've never rolled a melee cipher

But yeah, for this team, a 1h+shield cipher, not DW, would go. This would normalize your focus generation and add some tankyishness. I don't think that Res would add here much, you might dump it and get a normal high mig/int/per cipher. Or just take max mig/max int/10 everything else build. Pick a human, he would be beaten roughly anyway, and human's racial ability should be triggered quite often, it's great for a cipher.

 

On ranged cipher. Yes, it's viable to rush through PotD with a ranged cipher and without wizard, I've described such a team in my topic, but that's full-party. A ranged cipher is quite squishy, while a wizard can be very tanky using his spells. Moreover, monster AI tends to focus fire on the cipher, so when you are running a squishy ranged one, you need to have heavy melee hitters in your team or other means to protect him. In 4-man team, such a cipher would die too often, it's too vulnerable.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Moneo

[mosspit]

@Ymiraku:

 

I have played DW and 2H Ciphers. In my experience, the issue of having too much focus will only come if the melee potential of the Cipher is optimized. Even so, the situation will arise only in late game. By then you got a few spells that is useful and fast like Tactical Meld and Defensive Mindweb. Defensive Mindweb in particular is instant cast (not even fast). Meaning no casting stance, not even casting animation, no recovery after, dumps 80 focus straight away.

 

I second a weapon and shield setup. Or even 2H Tidefall for the draining enchantment to help with staying power.

 

For Cipher class, I think Hearth Orlan is pretty standard. Depends on your playstyle.

[Ymiraku]

Well, frankily saying, I've never rolled a melee cipher

But yeah, for this team, a 1h+shield cipher, not DW, would go. This would normalize your focus generation and add some tankyishness. I don't think that Res would add here much, you might dump it and get a normal high mig/int/per cipher. Or just take max mig/max int/10 everything else build. Pick a human, he would be beaten roughly anyway, and human's racial ability should be triggered quite often, it's great for a cipher.

 

On ranged cipher. Yes, it's viable to rush through PotD with a ranged cipher and without wizard, I've described such a team in my topic, but that's full-party. A ranged cipher is quite squishy, while a wizard can be very tanky using his spells. Moreover, monster AI tends to focus fire on the cipher, so when you are running a squishy ranged one, you need to have heavy melee hitters in your team or other means to protect him. In 4-man team, such a cipher would die too often, it's too vulnerable.

Well I don't really like orlans so what if i make a pale elf melee cipher with a shield and weapons in one slot and a gun in the second slot, fire off a shot at the start of the fight then change to sword and board.

 

So would this work well?

 

Pally tank

Chanter dragon wail tank

Melee cipher

Priest

[Ymiraku]

@Ymiraku:

 

I have played DW and 2H Ciphers. In my experience, the issue of having too much focus will only come if the melee potential of the Cipher is optimized. Even so, the situation will arise only in late game. By then you got a few spells that is useful and fast like Tactical Meld and Defensive Mindweb. Defensive Mindweb in particular is instant cast (not even fast). Meaning no casting stance, not even casting animation, no recovery after, dumps 80 focus straight away.

 

I second a weapon and shield setup. Or even 2H Tidefall for the draining enchantment to help with staying power.

 

For Cipher class, I think Hearth Orlan is pretty standard. Depends on your playstyle.

Well i don't want my cipher to get crapped on constantly so I think i will stay with the sword and board option, it seems recommended. What Culture should i choose, is old vailia for extra aoe and duration good for melee cipher? And what sort of stat point distribution would I want? 

 

Should I max intel and strength and not worry about resolve as a melee cipher?

[Blades of Vanatar]

If you build tanks your casters will just get targeted more. Make sure you tank your casters up a bit as well or soften your Melee tanks as you advance levels....

[Moneo]

So would this work well?

 

Pally tank

Chanter dragon wail tank

Melee cipher

Priest

 

 

I'd recommended dropping a chanter and picking up a wizard. IMO the Dragon Thrashed is overestimated. In really tough battles it doesn't add so much, and trash encounters are something you can cope with having a little problem. What can a chanter do well, is to boost your party, and the more powerful paty is, the more the chanter adds. I run without a wizard, but my party is optimized for dealing tremendous damage with weapons, so almost everything dies quickly. In a smaller party, wizard's CCs, debuffs and damage become more weighty. I suppose that you'll have quite a number of situations of emergency when you'll need to stop enemy hordes quickly, so, a wizard would be handy. Wizard is a very versatile class, he is able to play different roles depending on situation, and in smaller parties this is more important.

 

Also, a tanky chanter is rather boring, meanwhile a wizard adds a lot of fun.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Moneo

[Boeroer]

I agree that a wizard would be the better pick in this case because he has great CC options and is more flexible. And he can pull of some really nice self buffs if things start to go south. If you like the chanter better than it's ok of course. Still a great thing to have passive and at the same time immense AoE damage.

 

There is a trick with Withdraw + Chanter (keeps on singing Dragon Thrashed while withdrawn) that can be very effective though.

 

I also agree that Fire Godlike for paladins is suboptimal - unless you are planning a full retaliation build with Fires if Darcozzi Palace and combine that with Pain Link and Combusting Wounds.

 

If you look at the Counselor Ploi build you can see why a Wood Elf can be a good pick for a paladin (if you use the corresponding items and tactics).

Pale Elf is good as well. Also Mountain Dwarf (some of the most annoying attacks and disables in the game are poison/diseased based).

Edited October 4, 2017 by Boeroer

[mosspit]

Well i don't want my cipher to get crapped on constantly so I think i will stay with the sword and board option, it seems recommended. What Culture should i choose, is old vailia for extra aoe and duration good for melee cipher? And what sort of stat point distribution would I want? 

 

Should I max intel and strength and not worry about resolve as a melee cipher?

Well, the extra stat from Culture is not that important from a metagaming persecpective, unless you want to push beyond the normal 18 stat cap. Otherwise I choose background based on

- Starting Items. Most cases Rauatai and Old Valia gives mail armour (9DR base) so I like those. But plate armour is quite easily gotten from gold plate npcs in the first village if you so decide to kill them.

- The available backgrounds. From memory I like Colonist (+2 Sur), Labourer (+1 Mec/Ath), Philosopher and Artist (+2 Lor). Since points for these skills are exponent with levels, it makes more sense to choose a suitable background. I like +2 Sur when possible as the effects from the level scaling is very good. Especially for frontliners.

 

If I had to choose a stat to max, it will mostly be Per if you are using it more for debuff, Mig if you are pushing up dmg. So the corresponding Cultures. Cipher spells generally have good base duration so max Int is not that important. Ofc, RP is another different thing altogether.

 

You can take a lower than average Res as shield + weapon and shield talents is really good. But I wouldn't completely dump Res. Something about 7-8?

Edited October 4, 2017 by mosspit

[Ymiraku]

I agree that a wizard would be the better pick in this case because he has great CC options and is more flexible. And he can pull of some really nice self buffs if things start to go south. If you like the chanter better than it's ok of course. Still a great thing to have passive and at the same time immense AoE damage.

 

There is a trick with Withdraw + Chanter (keeps on singing Dragon Thrashed while withdrawn) that can be very effective though.

 

I also agree that Fire Godlike for paladins is suboptimal - unless you are planning a full retaliation build with Fires if Darcozzi Palace and combine that with Pain Link and Combusting Wounds.

 

If you look at the Counselor Ploi build you can see why a Wood Elf can be a good pick for a paladin (if you use the corresponding items and tactics).

Pale Elf is good as well. Also Mountain Dwarf (some of the most annoying attacks and disables in the game are poison/diseased based).

 

So if i make a pale elf paladin tank and a pale elf cipher tank, then a wood elf wizard and a moon godlike priest would that be a solid 4 man party?

 

I do like chanter as an offtank because of the great team support and tankiness he can bring + summons etc. but if a wizard is a more intelligent choice then I will do that.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Ymiraku

[Ymiraku]

 

Well i don't want my cipher to get crapped on constantly so I think i will stay with the sword and board option, it seems recommended. What Culture should i choose, is old vailia for extra aoe and duration good for melee cipher? And what sort of stat point distribution would I want? 

 

Should I max intel and strength and not worry about resolve as a melee cipher?

Well, the extra stat from Culture is not that important from a metagaming persecpective, unless you want to push beyond the normal 18 stat cap. Otherwise I choose background based on

- Starting Items. Most cases Rauatai and Old Valia gives mail armour (9DR base) so I like those. But plate armour is quite easily gotten from gold plate npcs in the first village if you so decide to kill them.

- The available backgrounds. From memory I like Colonist (+2 Sur), Labourer (+1 Mec/Ath), Philosopher and Artist (+2 Lor). Since points for these skills are exponent with levels, it makes more sense to choose a suitable background. I like +2 Sur when possible as the effects from the level scaling is very good. Especially for frontliners.

 

If I had to choose a stat to max, it will mostly be Per if you are using it more for debuff, Mig if you are pushing up dmg. So the corresponding Cultures. Cipher spells generally have good base duration so max Int is not that important. Ofc, RP is another different thing altogether.

 

You can take a lower than average Res as shield + weapon and shield talents is really good. But I wouldn't completely dump Res. Something about 7-8?

 

Would it be a good idea then to put something like belt of chimes on a cipher offtank to stop him from being interrupted?

[mosspit]

Its a good idea. I normally play mine like a rogue. Not built to handle multiple engagements, attack mostly from flanks. With your party size, that approach might not be possible. Increased importance in getting your key spells out. Later on you can maybe sub it out with Lost Periapt of the Winding Path if you don't fancy Talisman of the Unconquerable.

Edited October 4, 2017 by mosspit

[Moneo]

So if i make a pale elf paladin tank and a pale elf cipher tank, then a wood elf wizard and a moon godlike priest would that be a solid 4 man party?

 

I do like chanter as an offtank because of the great team support and tankiness he can bring + summons etc. but if a wizard is a more intelligent choice then I will do that.

 

 

That's a decent party, of course. If you are so eager to take a chanter, you can do this with no problem, there is no more or less "intelligent" choices in PoE. This game is beatable solo with every class you mentioned, and you have even four characters. So everything is viable with due approach. But a chanter is quite passive in gameplay, and thus more boring. Wizard+cipher combination is very strong tactically and urge you to be active during the battles with reasonable amount of micromanagement, you can choose different strategic approaches and have a lot of fun. But man, this are you who is playing and you who makes decisions. 

 

When you are composing your party, don't start making decisions from the classes. Start from the combat roles. Team RPGs have several standart roles or archetypes of characters, these are: a tank, a damage dealer, a healer, a buffer, a debuffer, a CC-er. You should distribute these roles among your party members. When picking a class, decide, which role this character would play. Don't try to make all-around person, let him specialize and shine in one or two roles. In a decent, balanced party all of the roles should be covered. Anything else is less important according to game mechanics and exists just for your fun.

[JFutral]

If I am working out a minimal party I think in terms of melee, range, and spell casting. If am looking for buffing and damage from my casters, I prefer to go with Druid. To me that is like a priest and wizard in one. I'm still a big fan of my ranger (range, scroll caster, and second melee in a pinch), rogue (melee), druid/spells caster (second range when not casting and scroll caster for CC and as a druid, shape-shifting made decent damage when I ran out of spells). I also swapped out with priest or wizard a few times and settled on druid as the most flexible. Throwing in a forth as a second spell caster was just icing on the cake. I imagine a dedicated tank would be similar.

 

But that happens to fit my play style and not ToI (at least not for me). YMMV.

 

Joe