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So for me aesthetically I really want this but in all the ways I look at it its crap. Since day one I have been playing this game I cant figure out a way to make a flail and shield paladin. Cause I do not think there is. Flail damage sucks for anyone whose not a rogue (sneak attack), Fighter (weapon specialization and mastery) or maybe a Barbarian if he is a disable build with carnage but that build isnt for damage. And because of its low fast weapon type FoD is absolutely terribad with it. So maybe he/she can use it as a support weapon? When you are not Alpha striking with FoD? Just take weapon focus soldier and delegate it to your tanking slot seems like my only idea. Like my marking weapons. Maybe Ondra's Tear for when you are tanking cause of the daze and the per rest abilities it comes with. Still a Barb tank with status effect tanking is far superior here. Lastly, its just a crush damage weapon so in the White March it kind of sucks. A lot of stuff is immune to crush.

Edited by Torm51
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So thinking about it...I never try and do damage with my 1hander anyway its always a switch to high min damage weapon (arbalest).  Either way as a support weapon they are way worse then say Shame or Glory, the marking spear or Strike hard.

Edited by Torm51
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Unforgiven is good as auto-attack weapon if combined with Vulnerable Attack + Ryona's Vambr. and durgan steel on shield, armor and weapon. And it comes quite early (basically with Tidefall).

 

The 20% 30% graze to hit is not bad in the early game, too.

 

Starcaller + Badgradr's Barricade is good. You will be fast enough to potentially perma-stun and triggering Thrust oTV all the time. 

 

Edit: just saw MAxQuests post and realized that flails have a more powerful variant of "reliable" which is 20%. 

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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So thinking about it...I never try and do damage with my 1hander anyway its always a switch to high min damage weapon (arbalest).  Either way as a support weapon they are way worse then say Shame or Glory, the marking spear or Strike hard.

 

Do you need a Marking weapon for PotD?

 

No. It's just nice to have one. :)

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Unforgiven is good as auto-attack weapon if combined with Vulnerable Attack + Ryona's Vambr. and durgan steel on shield, armor and weapon. And it comes quite early (basically with Tidefall).

 

The 20% graze to hit is not bad in the early game, too.

 

Starcaller + Badgradr's Barricade is good. You will be fast enough to potentially perma-stun and triggering Thrust oTV all the time.

All that crush damage I hate cause of the WM lol :p

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Let's think. First of all flails are fast, low-hitting weapons the +30% graze-to-hit conversion.

Whom can they benefit the most?:

- someone who hasn't eliminated grazes,

- and thus doesn't rely on critting, but still has high damage modifiers to overcome enemy DR (and make use of that micro-lash if present)

- someone who auto-attacks a lot, but doesn't rely on Primary and especially on Full-Action attacks.

 


There are not that many unique flails in the game...

 

- Gaun's Share - draining

- Starcaller - extra 10% damage as burn; stunning; spellstrike: Minoletta's Minor Missiles 

- Unforgiven - extra 10% damage as burn; speed

- Forgotten Tear of the Beloved - very weak spellchance effect (10% to daze the target); spellbind: Prayer Against Treachery (1 per rest); spellblind: Suppress Affliction (2 per rest)

 

> In terms of damage, flails (and specifically Starcaller/Unforgiven) could benefit only cipher, and a weird low-per melee rogue (without Finishing Blow and Backstab).

> In terms of utility, there is the Forgotten Tear which one would use only for it's spellbinds and then would switch to other weapon.

Edited by MaxQuest
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Let's think. First of all flails are fast, low-hitting weapons the +30% graze-to-hit conversion.

Whom can they benefit the most?:

- someone who hasn't eliminated grazes,

- and thus doesn't rely on critting, but still has high damage modifiers to overcome enemy DR (and make use of that micro-lash if present)

- someone who auto-attacks a lot, but doesn't rely on Primary and especially on Full-Action attacks.

 


There are not that many unique flails in the game...

 

- Gaun's Share - draining

- Starcaller - extra 10% damage as burn; stunning; spellstrike: Minoletta's Minor Missiles

- Unforgiven - extra 10% damage as burn; speed

- Forgotten Tear of the Beloved - very weak spellchance effect (10% to daze the target); spellbind: Prayer Against Treachery (1 per rest); spellblind: Suppress Affliction (2 per rest)

 

> In terms of damage, flails (and specifically Starcaller/Unforgiven) could benefit only cipher, and a weird low-per melee rogue (without Finishing Blow and Backstab).

> In terms of utility, there is the Forgotten Tear which one would use only for it's spellbinds and then would switch to other weapon.

Ya pretty much crap for a Paladin lol my dreams are crushed! Maybe with starcaller/sworn enemy and ZF for a disable tanking weapon. Although that damn Alpine Dragon is immune to both crush and stun that bastard. I love slaying him lol

 

PS: Even if I wanted to have a disable weapon for the Paladin for my tanking slot. Wetoki (The prone Axe) would be better.  It has a damage type that yes some enemies have high DR against but no one is immune except some blights I think. Axes have annhilation and no dragon is immune to prone.  I think it would be hard for a Paladin to prone a dragon with auto attacks but with enough buffs and sworn enemy you might.  Still a fighter is way better suited for this.  I feel like I am forcing (as always) the flail type Paladin and trying to play to a Paladin's weaknesses instead of his strengths.  Paladins are terrible auto attackers.  Its just not good no matter what way we look at it.

Edited by Torm51

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Also, everybody who can lower DR can profit from those two flails with the 10% burning lash. Chanter, even wizard (dual flail + Alacrity + Expose :)). Cipher with Body Attunement seems to be the perfect candidate for Starcaller + Unforgiven.

 

Gaun's Share isn't too bad for a barbarian, at least in early game. He grazes a lot because of his mediocre ACC base and Carnage's ACC malus - and the AoE draining is quite nice that early. Also, with Savage Attack, One Stands Alone and Blooded he has some dmg bonuses, for the 10% lashes, too.

 

Also, a low PER fighter with a large shield and Confident Aim comes to mind. Generally they are not bad for the use with a large shield. -8 ACC is hefty and the 30% conversion will help.

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Agreed Fighter with a large shield is really good for a flail. He can also take weapon mastery and make it hit like a average speed onehander. Bah but fighter tanks or such a missed opportunity for good consistent damage. Still depends on the party. If you have other classes doing the melee DPS fighters are definitely good at tanking.

Edited by Torm51

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