My 1st PotD group: A new Middle Earth Fellowship

[JFutral]

 

I would take Persistance instead of Borresaine. Better dps and constantly triggers Predator's Sense (which I would recommend).

 

Hmmm, but Persistence is slightly later (e.g. I can buy Borresaine at level 5, but I had trouble even at Od Nua level 2 at level 5 and decided to come back later). I am also not planning on micro-ing the animal much. He will just be a sacrificial lamb

 

Ranger is definitely my third favorite class (#1 Rogue, #2 Druid). Master's Call and Takedown saved my butt more than once.

 

I also second Persistence. Borresaine always seemed like a waste of money, particularly in aparty.

 

Joe

Edited September 24, 2017 by JFutral

[Boeroer]

It simply does more dps, even without Predator's Sense. Borresaine is nice and all and I like it on a cipher for example (because wounding does nothing for focus generation while war bows can punch through higher DR more easily) or on a rogue because of the stun on crit, but for a ranger Persistance is simply better - also on lower lvls or gainst foes with high defenses because it's "reliable". It's a good enchantment while you use Swift Aim or Twinned Arrows which lower your ACC.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

 

 

I would take Persistance instead of Borresaine. Better dps and constantly triggers Predator's Sense (which I would recommend).

 

Hmmm, but Persistence is slightly later (e.g. I can buy Borresaine at level 5, but I had trouble even at Od Nua level 2 at level 5 and decided to come back later). I am also not planning on micro-ing the animal much. He will just be a sacrificial lamb

 

Ranger is definitely my third favorite class (#1 Rogue, #2 Druid). Master's Call and Takedown saved my butt more than once.

 

I also second Persistence. Borresaine always seemed like a waste of money, particularly in aparty.

 

Joe

 

 

Since you mentioned the Rogue, what's your view on the viability of ranged Rogue for PotD?

[Lampros]

It simply does more dps, even without Predator's Sense. Borresaine is nice and all and I like it on a cipher for example (because wounding does nothing for focus generation while war bows can punch through higher DR more easily) or on a rogue because of the stun on crit, but for a ranger Persistance is simply better - also on lower lvls or gainst foes with high defenses because it's "reliable". It's a good enchantment while you use Swift Aim or Twinned Arrows which lower your ACC.

 

Hmmm, I wanted to use Borresaine on a Ranger, because I thought you said on a different thread that a Ranger can almost achieve the same crit rate that a Rogue can? So I thought on-crit effects will be useful on a Ranger, too?

[Lampros]

In the end, I ended up making Legolas a Rogue, not a Ranger. Ultimately, I did not want to deal with the hassle of micro-managing the pet. This run is much smoother than the last so far, because I do not have idle melees not doing anything. So everyone is doing DPS efficiently. I think I can also manage the Rogue's survival issues better, since I know the game mechanics a lot more than my first playthrough. So instead of shooting everything that pops up ASAP, I am waiting for the front-line to aggro first before shooting with the Rogue. Finally, I made the entire back-line - ranged Rogue, Wizard, Priest - only Might 14 instead of Might 18 that I usually do on everyone. I thought it was more important for these guys to act quickly and buff and debuff quickly than do raw damage.

[Boeroer]

A ranger can achieve a good crit rate - but later than the rogue. And Borresaine comes fairly early.

 

Rogue with Borresaine is nice. Good decision I guess. A ranger is only half as good if you don't use the pet at all.

[Lampros]

A ranger can achieve a good crit rate - but later than the rogue. And Borresaine comes fairly early.

 

Rogue with Borresaine is nice. Good decision I guess. A ranger is only half as good if you don't use the pet at all.

 

Yup. I wish we could have Ranger without a pet option in PoE II. Also, the initial reason I disliked the Rogue was because I did not know how to keep him alive - even as a ranged character. But now I am much better with keeping him out of harm's way, as I understand the game mechanics and various enemy encounters more thoroughly.

 

Another thing I am doing differently that is making things much smoother this time is that I am putting shield/1H set-up on both Aragorn the Paladin and Gimli the Fighter initially - until the group level up and gear up. So my front-line is much sturdier and I can let the back-line do DPS until mid-game or so.

 

Edit: I plan on making both the Paladin and the Fighter sort of DPS/tanking hybrids, so I can have them tank some boss fights as needed. This way I will also get a good feel for how both classes perform comparatively in DPS/tanking roles. Since my favorite classes are sturdy but high DPS melee classes in these type of games, I want to squeeze as much out of them as possible.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Lampros

[Boeroer]

We will have a ranger without permanent pet in PoE2:Deadfire, the "Ghost Heart Lodge" ranger. He can summon his deceased pet as a spirit - but he doesn't have to. So basically it's like chanter's or wizard's summons.

[Lampros]

We will have a ranger without permanent pet in PoE2:Deadfire, the "Ghost Heart Lodge" ranger. He can summon his deceased pet as a spirit - but he doesn't have to. So basically it's like chanter's or wizard's summons.

 

I read that, but I didn't realize you don't have to summon him. I assumed he would auto-summon at the start of a fight, but go away after a period even if he didn't get knocked out. If you are right, then it's awesome news!

[Torm51]

So done for the day, and my main Paladin just hit level 4, and the other guys just hit level 3. I avoided Temple of Eothas, and I am killing mobs in wilderness areas (I was a bit surprised I could kill 3 trolls with ease at Black Meadow at level 3 main and level 2 the rest) and doing easy quests. Some observations:

 

1. As expected, the crowding problem with 4 melees is awful. The problem is made worse by the fact that PoE has just about the worst AI pathing I've seen in an RPG game of this quality, so I have to walk melees to their targets. But on the flip-side, my 2 ranged guys - the Priest and the Wizard - only get hit by ranged attacks. I think I will leave things as is, but I may give the Fighter a pike later as a back-up.

 

2. Enemy burst damage is rather huge. While I have yet to die, I have lost over half a health in one hit on a number of times on all of my front-liners, so healing has to be super-quick. It is definitely possible to get killed by two crits, and it may eventually happen as things are going. In fact, the level 2 Ooze in Cliant Lis nearly killed my main in one hit! So I am wondering if I made a mistake in leaving only 10 Constitution on all my front-liners.

 

3. I know it's early, but the Wayfarer Paladin, my main, is easily the MVP so far. His dual wield build - while risky - is killing stuff so fast that Strange Mercy seems to activate non-stop. And he's saved so many guys from near death with his Lay on Hands. In contrast, the dual wield Fighter is frankly doing jack sheet. At this point, I think I would have been better off running 2 Paladins rather than 1 Paladin and 1 Fighter. But it's early going, so we shall see.

If you don't have disciplined barrage your going to have a bad time on a DPS Fighter. Especially on PotD Edited September 24, 2017 by Torm51

[Lampros]

 

So done for the day, and my main Paladin just hit level 4, and the other guys just hit level 3. I avoided Temple of Eothas, and I am killing mobs in wilderness areas (I was a bit surprised I could kill 3 trolls with ease at Black Meadow at level 3 main and level 2 the rest) and doing easy quests. Some observations:

 

1. As expected, the crowding problem with 4 melees is awful. The problem is made worse by the fact that PoE has just about the worst AI pathing I've seen in an RPG game of this quality, so I have to walk melees to their targets. But on the flip-side, my 2 ranged guys - the Priest and the Wizard - only get hit by ranged attacks. I think I will leave things as is, but I may give the Fighter a pike later as a back-up.

 

2. Enemy burst damage is rather huge. While I have yet to die, I have lost over half a health in one hit on a number of times on all of my front-liners, so healing has to be super-quick. It is definitely possible to get killed by two crits, and it may eventually happen as things are going. In fact, the level 2 Ooze in Cliant Lis nearly killed my main in one hit! So I am wondering if I made a mistake in leaving only 10 Constitution on all my front-liners.

 

3. I know it's early, but the Wayfarer Paladin, my main, is easily the MVP so far. His dual wield build - while risky - is killing stuff so fast that Strange Mercy seems to activate non-stop. And he's saved so many guys from near death with his Lay on Hands. In contrast, the dual wield Fighter is frankly doing jack sheet. At this point, I think I would have been better off running 2 Paladins rather than 1 Paladin and 1 Fighter. But it's early going, so we shall see.

If you don't have disciplined barrage your going to have a bad time on a DPS Fighter. Especially on PotD

 

 

This is already an old, lost save!

 

I re-started with a different group after the game ate my save again. I replaced the Barbarian with a ranged Rogue (as 4 melees were too much); and I moved the Chanter tank to Tall Grass role (Chanter tank felt a bit too squishy for a first PotD run). I also made some adjustments: For instance, I gave both my Paladin and Fighter shields, and they will remain that way until folks level up and gear up. And I make sure my shield guys aggro first before unloading the back-line DPS.

 

And it's a lot smoother this time around - as well as faster. Oh, and I do have Disciplined Barrage, of course!

[Torm51]

Oh ok my fault! Awesome!

[Lampros]

Okay, a lot to update here.

 

Fist and foremost, I think I have figured out how to contain my lost save problem. It seems like losing saves can only occur in two separate scenarios. First, it can happen when I switch from offline to online play - and vice versa. Since I never know when I will lose online connection, I guess this means I should only play PoE offline. Second, it appears that when I save over a previous save, it sometimes only deletes the previous save and does not actually create a new save. So I should double check and see if a new save has been created. And with these two precautions in place, no issues so far. But to be extra careful, I am backing up everything as well in a separate drive.

 

Now to the playthrough itself.

 

I played this 2nd PotD group (Paladin tank/off-tank, Fighter tank/off-tank, Chanter pike DPS, Rogue war bow DPS/CC, Wizard implement DPS/CC, and Priest buffer/healer) to level 10. I had a really smooth run up until level 10 - though I did have to make a major adjustment early: I realized that my two front-liners could not survive without a shield and had to wait until better gear and more levels for a more aggressive approach. (This was less of a problem when I had three front-liners in the first PotD attempt.)

 

There were three chief reasons for my greater success this time. First, I did incorporate a lot of suggestions posters here made - especially focusing on increasing Accuracy early (thanks, everyone!). So I did not experience the same "PotD crit starvation" issue I initially complained about after the first aborted run (except on the ranged Rogue - more on this later). Second, I found some stuff on my own - especially about abusing the various summoning items in the game. And holy moly - are they powerful early and mid-game! They almost single-handedly enabled me to power through the more difficult encounters where I was threatened with being overwhelmed in numbers. Third, and finally, I was very careful to avoid the harder early encounters and ensuring I was over-leveled when I did tackle them. For instance, I did try the Ogres in level 3 Caed Nua until level 8!

 

But now I wiped in the big Laguafaeth camp in Longwatch Falls, and I had to save scum and failed again in a re-try. (This was also the first fight where I had anyone knocked out.) Of course, I can leave this fight off until later - as I did with the Caed Nua Ogres. And as I am still doing with Galvino's Workshop and Cliaban Rilag Spores. But I can see I will have massive trouble in the future content when I can no longer count on the summon items and being over-leveled. Something is off in my set-up.

 

And I think one of the biggest problem - the "dead weight" - is the ranged Rogue. He is frustrating me to the point where I cannot keep going with him any more. To begin with, his DPS is awful. Since level 9 - at which point my two front-liners switched to offensive mode - my ranged Rogue is behind everyone in DPS except my Priest (!). But I sort of expected this, as I built my Rogue to be as much Borresaine stunner as a DPS. But he is failing miserably here, too. For whatever reason, he is averaging only 25 percent crit, and that is not enough for Borresaine's on-crit effect. So I am getting nothing out of him. Here's the DPS record at up to level 9 and at level 10:

 

Pre-level 9:

 

Paladin MC (1st line/main tank) (Shame & Glory/Outworn Buckler): 22,511

Fighter (1st line/off-tank) (Shatterstar & Sura's Supper Plate): 32,561

Chanter (2nd line/DPS) (Tall Grass) 28,143

Rogue (3rd line/DPS/CC?) (Borresaine) 34,978

Wizard (3rd line/DPS/CC) (Gyrd) 33,320

Priest (3rd line/buff/DPS) (Grudge Keeper) 15,983

 

Pre-level 10:

 

Paladin (1st line/DPS) (Tidefall): 33,485

Fighter (1st line/DPS) (Shatterstar/Hearth Harvest): 43,631

Chanter (2nd line/DPS) (Tall Grass) 56,880

Rogue (3rd line/DPS/CC?) (Borresaine) 41,581

Wizard (3rd line/DPS/CC) (Gyrd)  42,291

Priest (3rd line/buff/DPS) (Grudge Keeper) 19,915

 

And the Rogue will just keep getting behind in DPS as I have held off on the DPS abilities/talents initially (and some cannot be obtained much later - like Sacred Immolation). And his lack of consistent crits and thus CC will make his lack of contribution there hurt even more, as enemy groups become larger and tougher later.

 

Once again, I am shocked by the Rogue's low crit to the point where I am wondering if my game was bugged. He had 90 percent crit rate at normal with the same build; and now he has 25 percent?!  Whatever the reason, I am swearing off the class for now. He does mediocre overall DPS, and he can't CC even single targets reliably.

 

So in my 3rd PotD attempt, I will go with 4 melees again, except 2 of those 4 melees will have reach weapons to reduce the melee congestion/idling issue. I think I will replace the Rogue with a Chanter or a Paladin - so I will have 2 of either Chanter or Paladin. The DPS should be way better - from mid-game onward if Chanter and late-game onward if Paladin. And a lot more utility and group support.

 

Edit: I think I will have a 2nd Paladin replace the Rogue, not the 2nd Chanter. The Paladin is a bit more sturdier, and he has a bit more early game utility.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Lampros

[JFutral]

Huh. That's interesting. I just started a new PotD run with a pale elf ranged rogue (due to this thread!) and right now he is my #1 damage dealer. He's my main character and also has the highest acc and dps. He has killed the most, done the most damage, killed the toughest enemy, etc. Rest of the party is a dwarf barbarian, Aumua fighter, god-like wizard, human chanter, and human cleric. Planning on swaping out for Hiravias and Sagani when I come across them.

 

Go figure.

 

Joe

[Boeroer]

He shouldn't have such low numbers when it comes to crits. Something's not right. I mean he will not keep up with Dragon Thrashed and SI anyways, but at least he should do reliable and high single target damage and stun at least 50% of all shots at higher levels.

[JerekKruger]

I guess it could simply be really bad luck. A X% chance to crit doesn't guarantee that X% of your attacks will be crits (unless X = 100). That said, that seems pretty unlikely.

[Boeroer]

Yes, having less crits than a paladin and chanter is really weird.

[Lampros]

Huh. That's interesting. I just started a new PotD run with a pale elf ranged rogue (due to this thread!) and right now he is my #1 damage dealer. He's my main character and also has the highest acc and dps. He has killed the most, done the most damage, killed the toughest enemy, etc. Rest of the party is a dwarf barbarian, Aumua fighter, god-like wizard, human chanter, and human cleric. Planning on swaping out for Hiravias and Sagani when I come across them.

 

Go figure.

 

Joe

 

Could you post level, stats, and talents/abilities? I knew his DPS will be mediocre, because it was mediocre at Normal, too. But the 25 percent crit rate is just mind-boggling. For a reference, at Normal he had 90 percent crit rate almost.

 

My build at level 10 was:

 

Blinding Strike

Weapon Focus: Adventurer

Dirty Fighting

Vicious Fighting

Deep Wounds

Marksman

Crippling Strike

Runner's Wounding Shot

Adept Evasion

Interrupting Blows

 

I don't remember the creation stat distribution, but it was at level 10:

 

14 Might; 10 Constitution; 17 Dexterity; 18 Perception; 16 Intelligence; 9 Resolution

 

Also 75 Accuracy with Borresaine, but that does not take into account the Wood Elf and Marksman boni, I believe.

 

 

I guess it could simply be really bad luck. A X% chance to crit doesn't guarantee that X% of your attacks will be crits (unless X = 100). That said, that seems pretty unlikely.

 

That could be, but level 10 is a lot of arrows shot - and a pretty large sampling.

 

Yes, having less crits than a paladin and chanter is really weird.

 

Actually, both the Chanter and the Paladin had less - but not significantly so (Paladin had like 18 percent, and I don't remember the Chanter but close to the Paladin).

Edited September 28, 2017 by Lampros

[Lampros]

I should stress that my games have been buggy - with lost saves, Arcane Veil sometimes not activating for some odd reason, with hand items (whether weapons or shields) sometimes not displaying at all graphically, etc.

 

But everything else on the damage record other than the Rogue crit rate looks normal.

[JFutral]

My base stats are a little different, but over all you've actually gone my typical talent/ability tree route. I don't think my difference in stats would account for the difference in experiences. (But all the same: M16, C10, D14, P14, I10, R13, not as many talents/abilities yet since I am at a lower level atm, but you picked what I would pick).

 

I also run around with Sneak mode as my default. That helps with sneak attack and works with range as well as melee weapons, IIRC. And I really don't have anything special just yet, weapon-wise. (I haven't gotten to the keep yet).

 

It could be just bad rolls, it could be play style. Hard to say. But I can't say I blame you. If a character wasn't putting out, for whatever reason, I'd dump him, too. Er., so to speak.

 

Joe

[Lampros]

My base stats are a little different, but over all you've actually gone my typical talent/ability tree route. I don't think my difference in stats would account for the difference in experiences. (But all the same: M16, C10, D14, P14, I10, R13, not as many talents/abilities yet since I am at a lower level atm, but you picked what I would pick).

 

I also run around with Sneak mode as my default. That helps with sneak attack and works with range as well as melee weapons, IIRC. And I really don't have anything special just yet, weapon-wise. (I haven't gotten to the keep yet).

 

It could be just bad rolls, it could be play style. Hard to say. But I can't say I blame you. If a character wasn't putting out, for whatever reason, I'd dump him, too. Er., so to speak.

 

Joe

 

His DPS and crit rate were okay at lower levels. But they started lagging relatively once the other guys started getting offensive abilities/talents and good gear (around level 5 is when I got stuff like Shatterstar and Tall Grass). So I'd love to see how your experience - or IF - changes at higher levels. Please keep us posted.

 

On not "putting out": I've stayed with girls who didn't put out - for a long time. But I think I was a romantic who was a full of illusions in my youth!

[Lampros]

So having been brutally gang-banged and wiping at Longwatch Falls after pulling two Laguafaeth groups, I am going to adjust my team a bit and try a third group. I am dumping the horrid ranged Rogue (Legolas) and replacing him with another Paladin - a mid-liner who will get Tall Grass.

 

So this is the new group:

 

1st line:

 

Aragorn the Paladin (Tidefall 2H)

 

Gimli the Fighter (Shatterstar/Godansthunyr dual-wield)

 

2nd line:

 

Elrond the Paladin (Tall Grass)

 

Gandalf the Chanter (Llawran's Stick or duplicated Tall Grass)

 

3rd line:

 

Galadriel the Wizard (Golden Gaze?)

 

Arwen the Priest (Gyrd?; she might also go 1H/shield and move to the 2nd line)

[Boeroer]

Against Lagufaeth you should really get Aila Braccia. But you have no shield user in the front line... And Fenwalkers boots! Also the Wayfarer's Hide and Tempered Helm are good.

 

Longwatch Falls is pretty hard compared to Russetwood and Durgan's Battery.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Boeroer

[JFutral]

His DPS and crit rate were okay at lower levels. But they started lagging relatively once the other guys started getting offensive abilities/talents and good gear (around level 5 is when I got stuff like Shatterstar and Tall Grass). So I'd love to see how your experience - or IF - changes at higher levels. Please keep us posted.

 

On not "putting out": I've stayed with girls who didn't put out - for a long time. But I think I was a romantic who was a full of illusions in my youth!

 

Maybe it's because I've played rogues a good bit, but even in PotD my Rogues actually do better as the go up in level. I'm more surprised he is doing this well this early. He also runs a dagger and a rapier for melee on the occasion an extra melee fighter helps and he kicks butt there, too. In the past my experience is he doesn't do as well early. I ran a duo/rogue and ranger party once and he rogue was my "front line" engager.

 

I'll keep an eye on him.

 

Joe

[Lampros]

Against Lagufaeth you should really get Aila Braccia. But you have no shield user in the front line... And Fenwalkers boots! Also the Wayfarer's Hide and Tempered Helm are good.

 

Longwatch Falls is pretty hard compared to Russetwood and Durgan's Battery.

 

I do equip shields on the 2nd set for boss fights possibly; so I could use them for other select fights. Is Alia the only item that does Reflect? Gamespedia says it is, but the info there is often incomplete

 

I will get the other items you mentioned as well - though not sure if they can all be obtained before I go through this zone.

 

And I agree on the difficulty. I did parts of Russetwood at level 7 even; and here I wiped at level 10...

 

 

His DPS and crit rate were okay at lower levels. But they started lagging relatively once the other guys started getting offensive abilities/talents and good gear (around level 5 is when I got stuff like Shatterstar and Tall Grass). So I'd love to see how your experience - or IF - changes at higher levels. Please keep us posted.

 

On not "putting out": I've stayed with girls who didn't put out - for a long time. But I think I was a romantic who was a full of illusions in my youth!

 

Maybe it's because I've played rogues a good bit, but even in PotD my Rogues actually do better as the go up in level. I'm more surprised he is doing this well this early. He also runs a dagger and a rapier for melee on the occasion an extra melee fighter helps and he kicks butt there, too. In the past my experience is he doesn't do as well early. I ran a duo/rogue and ranger party once and he rogue was my "front line" engager.

 

I'll keep an eye on him.

 

Joe

 

 

Hmm, the sense I got on Rogue power progression is a bit different. It seems like most of his DPS abilities/talents - at least for a ranged Rogue - can be taken early, whereas a front-liner class like Paladin or Fighter needs to devote some early level-ups to survival abilities/talents. Anyways, for a first PotD run, carrying a class without much staying power or AoE damage or CC was simply too limiting. So I had to switch.