2-Handed Build Advice - New to POE

[Guildenstern123]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm new to POE and its been a long time since I've played this style of game in general. 

 

For my first character on Normal Difficulty, I'm interested in building a 2-handed Off Tank DPS Main Character.

 

Are Fighter and Ranger good candidates for this role? I'm not one for min-maxing in games but I never like feeling that my build is on the bottom of the "Tier List". 

 

As I understand, the majority of builds are viable in this game (especially on normal difficulty) but would my character be contributing well if they we a 2H Fighter/Ranger compared to my companions? 

 

Thanks!

[Boeroer]

Both are viable. Fighter is pretty straightforward. For some inspirations, read this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80748-buildpreview-lady-of-pain/

 

A 2H-ranger build with nice synergy effects is this one: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83435-class-build-riptide-the-pit-fright-dps-offtank-melee-ranger-double-team-supreme/

You don't have to put the attrivutes in the same way. The trick of this build is to use Tidefall (2H great sword with wounding) and Shod-in-Faith-Boots and provide constant damage buff and healing for your animal companion. The build is rather old so it lacks some of the newer talents/abilites - but it can give you the basic idea. It was pretty nice to play

[Lampros]

If you are playing "Normal," I would strongly recommend a non-Fighter main tank. Instead, I would suggest either Boerer's Counselor Ploi (Paladin) or - even better - any one of Boerer's Chanter tank builds posted. The reason is that in PoE tanks have difficulty holding "aggro" the way they can in other RPGs or MMORPGs. This is because the AI tends to switch targets regularly and constantly go for the squishier targets. So the better way to control the fight is through either massive DPS (especially AoE DPS) or crowd control (both Ciphers and Wizards are excellent at putting a large group of enemies out of the fight for a long time). And both Paladins and Chanters can do a lot more DPS (not to mention contribute group buffs) while tanking than the conventional Fighter/Warrior type of tanks. Also, both Paladins and Chanters are extremely micro-management friendly. In fact, they are basically on auto-drive and you literally do not even have to click on them for most fights, except perhaps a Paladin performing an odd Lay on Hands heal here and there - or getting rid of a debuff through something like Liberation Exhortation.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Lampros

[Guildenstern123]

Both are viable. Fighter is pretty straightforward. For some inspirations, read this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80748-buildpreview-lady-of-pain/

 

A 2H-ranger build with nice synergy effects is this one: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83435-class-build-riptide-the-pit-fright-dps-offtank-melee-ranger-double-team-supreme/

 

You don't have to put the attrivutes in the same way. The trick of this build is to use Tidefall (2H great sword with wounding) and Shod-in-Faith-Boots and provide constant damage buff and healing for your animal companion. The build is rather old so it lacks some of the newer talents/abilites - but it can give you the basic idea. It was pretty nice to play

 

Thank you Boeroer, the Ranger Build sounds interesting so I'll give that a go.

 

From what I understand, Ranger has had some good buffs I'm hoping a melee orientated one will be able to handle themselves in comparison to the rest of the group. 

 

If you are playing "Normal," I would strongly recommend a non-Fighter main tank. Instead, I would suggest either Boerer's Counselor Ploi (Paladin) or - even better - any one of Boerer's Chanter tank builds posted. The reason is that in PoE tanks have difficulty holding "aggro" the way they can in other RPGs or MMORPGs. This is because the AI tends to switch targets regularly and constantly go for the squishier targets. So the better way to control the fight is through either massive DPS (especially AoE DPS) or crowd control (both Ciphers and Wizards are excellent at putting a large group of enemies out of the fight for a long time). And both Paladins and Chanters can do a lot more DPS (not to mention contribute group buffs) while tanking than the conventional Fighter/Warrior type of tanks. Also, both Paladins and Chanters are extremely micro-management friendly. In fact, they are basically on auto-drive and you literally do not even have to click on them for most fights, except perhaps a Paladin performing an odd Lay on Hands heal here and there - or getting rid of a debuff through something like Liberation Exhortation.

 

Thanks Lampros, but I tend to stay away from casters and the typical "Holy Knights" for a main character when I can (simply for RP purposes). 

 

As mentioned above, I hope a Melee Ranger will be able to keep up with the others for my first playthrough. 

[Lampros]

 

If you are playing "Normal," I would strongly recommend a non-Fighter main tank. Instead, I would suggest either Boerer's Counselor Ploi (Paladin) or - even better - any one of Boerer's Chanter tank builds posted. The reason is that in PoE tanks have difficulty holding "aggro" the way they can in other RPGs or MMORPGs. This is because the AI tends to switch targets regularly and constantly go for the squishier targets. So the better way to control the fight is through either massive DPS (especially AoE DPS) or crowd control (both Ciphers and Wizards are excellent at putting a large group of enemies out of the fight for a long time). And both Paladins and Chanters can do a lot more DPS (not to mention contribute group buffs) while tanking than the conventional Fighter/Warrior type of tanks. Also, both Paladins and Chanters are extremely micro-management friendly. In fact, they are basically on auto-drive and you literally do not even have to click on them for most fights, except perhaps a Paladin performing an odd Lay on Hands heal here and there - or getting rid of a debuff through something like Liberation Exhortation.

 

Thanks Lampros, but I tend to stay away from casters and the typical "Holy Knights" for a main character when I can (simply for RP purposes). 

 

As mentioned above, I hope a Melee Ranger will be able to keep up with the others for my first playthrough. 

 

 

Paladins don't necessarily have to be "holy" or "moral" in this game. There are a number of "immoral" orders. As for Chanters, they do not work like "bards" in other MMORPGs. They have excellent deflection and accuracy. True, they lack Endurance/Health, but you can work around that by making them either a shield melee or a pike/staff melee.

[Boeroer]

A melee ranger with a two hander is actually quite ok in the early game - mostly because of Wounding Shots (is better than the standard Flames of Devotion and also works in melee) and Swift Aim (also works in melee - Vicious Aim only works with ranged weapons). The improved speed and the raw damage let him do good damage early on. The best part is obvioulsy Stunning Shots which also work in melee. Funnily enough Driving Flight + Stunning Shots will also stun the enemy behind your initial target (without doing damage). You have to decide if it's worth it (I mean Driving Flight). With Stalker's Link and Stalker's Torc (random loot item) you'll also get +10 ACC and +20% damage, stacks with Savage Attack and Apprentice's Sneak as well as Two Handed Style. So, the melee damage can be comparable to a fighter's with the addition that from lvl 11 on you will be perma-stunning enemies - a bit like Xaurip Skirmishers or Phantoms do. 

 

And never forget the pet! With Predator's Sense, Merciless & Vicious Companion, combined with a wounding weapon like Tidefall on the ranger it will do tremendous damage per hit. It hits slowly - but who cares if it one-shots squishies, right? On top of that the pet can flank with you, giving you both the equivalent of +10 ACC and triggering Merciless Companion, Apprentice's Sneak Attack and also survival's flanking bonus for you. It's quite fun.

[Torm51]

If you are playing "Normal," I would strongly recommend a non-Fighter main tank. Instead, I would suggest either Boerer's Counselor Ploi (Paladin) or - even better - any one of Boerer's Chanter tank builds posted. The reason is that in PoE tanks have difficulty holding "aggro" the way they can in other RPGs or MMORPGs. This is because the AI tends to switch targets regularly and constantly go for the squishier targets. So the better way to control the fight is through either massive DPS (especially AoE DPS) or crowd control (both Ciphers and Wizards are excellent at putting a large group of enemies out of the fight for a long time). And both Paladins and Chanters can do a lot more DPS (not to mention contribute group buffs) while tanking than the conventional Fighter/Warrior type of tanks. Also, both Paladins and Chanters are extremely micro-management friendly. In fact, they are basically on auto-drive and you literally do not even have to click on them for most fights, except perhaps a Paladin performing an odd Lay on Hands heal here and there - or getting rid of a debuff through something like Liberation Exhortation.

Lampros you blaspheme!  Even on PotD its hard to beat a Paladin on tanking ability.  Consistently.  A wizard can do it with deflection but still cant match on saves.  Like not even close!  You can prone him and then he is meat! 

 

Blasphemy! 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Torm51

[Torm51]

 

Both are viable. Fighter is pretty straightforward. For some inspirations, read this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80748-buildpreview-lady-of-pain/

 

A 2H-ranger build with nice synergy effects is this one: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83435-class-build-riptide-the-pit-fright-dps-offtank-melee-ranger-double-team-supreme/

 

You don't have to put the attrivutes in the same way. The trick of this build is to use Tidefall (2H great sword with wounding) and Shod-in-Faith-Boots and provide constant damage buff and healing for your animal companion. The build is rather old so it lacks some of the newer talents/abilites - but it can give you the basic idea. It was pretty nice to play

 

Thank you Boeroer, the Ranger Build sounds interesting so I'll give that a go.

 

From what I understand, Ranger has had some good buffs I'm hoping a melee orientated one will be able to handle themselves in comparison to the rest of the group. 

 

If you are playing "Normal," I would strongly recommend a non-Fighter main tank. Instead, I would suggest either Boerer's Counselor Ploi (Paladin) or - even better - any one of Boerer's Chanter tank builds posted. The reason is that in PoE tanks have difficulty holding "aggro" the way they can in other RPGs or MMORPGs. This is because the AI tends to switch targets regularly and constantly go for the squishier targets. So the better way to control the fight is through either massive DPS (especially AoE DPS) or crowd control (both Ciphers and Wizards are excellent at putting a large group of enemies out of the fight for a long time). And both Paladins and Chanters can do a lot more DPS (not to mention contribute group buffs) while tanking than the conventional Fighter/Warrior type of tanks. Also, both Paladins and Chanters are extremely micro-management friendly. In fact, they are basically on auto-drive and you literally do not even have to click on them for most fights, except perhaps a Paladin performing an odd Lay on Hands heal here and there - or getting rid of a debuff through something like Liberation Exhortation.

 

Thanks Lampros, but I tend to stay away from casters and the typical "Holy Knights" for a main character when I can (simply for RP purposes). 

 

As mentioned above, I hope a Melee Ranger will be able to keep up with the others for my first playthrough. 

 

Best thing about Paladins in POE most aren't the Holy Knight type (only Kind Wayfarers) be a Bleak Walker and get more powerful for being an evil **** or a Goldpact Knight and not give three ****s about a damn thing  because the contract has been made.  Beneath the gold the bitter steel!  Even a Shieldbearer can be a not so good guy.

 

The only must good guy is a Kind Wayfarer and Darcozzzi (cause most passionate responses is to defend people so it leads you there).

Edited September 18, 2017 by Torm51

[Lampros]

 

If you are playing "Normal," I would strongly recommend a non-Fighter main tank. Instead, I would suggest either Boerer's Counselor Ploi (Paladin) or - even better - any one of Boerer's Chanter tank builds posted. The reason is that in PoE tanks have difficulty holding "aggro" the way they can in other RPGs or MMORPGs. This is because the AI tends to switch targets regularly and constantly go for the squishier targets. So the better way to control the fight is through either massive DPS (especially AoE DPS) or crowd control (both Ciphers and Wizards are excellent at putting a large group of enemies out of the fight for a long time). And both Paladins and Chanters can do a lot more DPS (not to mention contribute group buffs) while tanking than the conventional Fighter/Warrior type of tanks. Also, both Paladins and Chanters are extremely micro-management friendly. In fact, they are basically on auto-drive and you literally do not even have to click on them for most fights, except perhaps a Paladin performing an odd Lay on Hands heal here and there - or getting rid of a debuff through something like Liberation Exhortation.

Lampros you blaspheme!  Even on PotD its hard to beat a Paladin on tanking ability.  Consistently.  A wizard can do it with deflection but still cant match on saves.  Like not even close!  You can prone him and then he is meat! 

 

Blasphemy! 

 

 

Yes, I agree a Paladin is definitely a lot sturdier than a Chanter. But the reason I said the Chanter is a better tank is that he will do a bit more DPS than the Paladin. And I do not really foresee tank survival as a big issue in this game, because tanks - unlike squishy back-liners - are relatively hard to kill in this game. So the main difference is "what else can the tank do?" - and Chanters bring slightly more DPS.

[Torm51]

Agree and there big DPS ability they get much earlier (lvl 9). Paladin gets it at 13. They both give buffs to the party but they give them differently. Paladins are better Dragon killers imo they can Alpha it instead of DOT it and possibly take swipes/breathes cause it's alive. Also Crit alphas from an arbalest can knock down the dragons. Paladins have better defenses overall as we said. All in all really good classes and I like having them both lol.

[mosspit]

@Guildenstern123: Do you happen to be a Vagrant Story fan?

 

Paladin vs Chanters. Paladin are the better tanks by definition of the role. Thing about Chanters they are the king of jack of all trades (yes that sounds weird).

 

Great thing is their large aoe chants does a range of different effects - buffs, debuffs and dps. In addition they are passive and do not take many talents to buff them (Brisk Incantation is auto and Ancient Memory / Beloved Spirits is technically optional). The chants dont even waste any action resources in most cases so they can cast scrolls, swing a sword while the chants are still ongoing.

 

This means they can be rather flexible - from taking W&S talent and wearing defensive items, to getting 2H talents with WF and go dps. Whatever role you can do with the generic talents really.

Edited September 19, 2017 by mosspit

[Lampros]

@Guildenstern123: Do you happen to be a Vagrant Story fan?

 

Paladin vs Chanters. Paladin are the better tanks by definition of the role. Thing about Chanters they are the king of jack of all trades (yes that sounds weird).

 

Great thing is their large aoe chants does a range of different effects - buffs, debuffs and dps. In addition they are passive and do not take many talents to buff them (Brisk Incantation is auto and Ancient Memory / Beloved Spirits is technically optional). The chants dont even waste any action resources in most cases so they can cast scrolls, swing a sword while the chants are still ongoing.

 

This means they can be rather flexible - from taking W&S talent and wearing defensive items, to getting 2H talents with WF and go dps. Whatever role you can do with the generic talents really.

 

I picked Ancient Memory/Beloved Spirits while leveling up, but I could not tell whether they were auto or even working. I couldn't choose them among the various Phrases and Invocations?

[Lampros]

Also, since we are doing Paladin v.:

 

What about Paladin v. Fighter in terms of off-tank/DPS role from the front-line? More specifically, I suspect how big is the single target DPS gap in favor of the Fighter? (I suspect the Paladin will do more overall DPS due to Immolation after level 13, so I am only interested in single target DPS comparison for boss fights.)

Edited September 19, 2017 by Lampros

[Torm51]

A Fighter takes it in single target dps because of disciplined Barrage. That stacked with priest ACC buffs and their natural high ACC gives them hit chance only a rogue can possibly hope to match in Melee. Add in marking + 20 from a paladin with appropriate talents and weapon and it's even better. Also Armored Grace let's them reach 0 recovery or close to it. Paladins only get FoD, Sworn Enemy (which is only against one target) and Sacred Immolation and can't keep a consistently high ACC like a Fighter with Disc Barrage. Just for 2 hits with FoD but not auto attacks. That's why I like high INT fighters. Smart fighters FTW! Lol.

 

 

Fighters also get clear out, knock down, sunder, charge and into the fray which all hit really hard.

 

I think DPS fighters really shine against hard targets like Dragons.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Torm51

[Lampros]

A Fighter takes it in single target dps because of disciplined Barrage. That stacked with priest ACC buffs and their natural high ACC gives them hit chance only a rogue can possibly hope to match in Melee. Add in marking + 20 from a paladin with appropriate talents and weapon and it's even better. Also Armored Grace let's them reach 0 recovery or close to it. Paladins only get FoD and Sacred Immolation and can't keep a consistently high ACC like a Fighter with Disc Barrage. Just for 2 hits with FoD but not auto attacks. That's why I like high INT fighters. Smart fighters FTW! Lol.

 

 

Fighters also get clear out, knock down, charge and into the fray which all hit really hard.

 

I think DPS fighters really shine against hard targets like Dragons.

 

Then the question becomes: Is the superior single target DPS enough to off-set superior overall DPS (at least from level 13) plus Paladin auras/heals/buffs/cleanses? I am still inclining toward having a 2 Paladin front-line, but I may think about replacing one with either a Fighter or Barbarian. The rest 4: 2 Chanters, 1 Wizard, and 1 Priest are untouchable though. (I am not sure what I am going to do when they shrink the party to 5 in PoE ).

[Torm51]

I think it is. That's me though. Fighter is my 2nd fav class lol

[JerekKruger]

I think a Barbarian will write the floor with a Paladin when it comes to DPS. Early game they have carnage whereas the Paladin had no AoE, and when the Paladin gets Sacred Immolation the Barbarian gets Heart of Fury which assuming an encounter has enough enemies (which on PotD most do) will do stupid damage (see Kaylon's video where he two shots upscaled Magran's Faithful on PotD).

 

Of course he's not so obviously a good tank and he doesn't provide party support in the way a Paladin does.

[Boeroer]

And the barb doesn't provide burst damage - at which the paladin can be really good.

 

People always talk about dps here, dps there - but it's also very important to take out high priority targets that can screw you really fast. 2 FoD attack can do that if you use the right talents and items. If a Battery Siren paralyzes your whole crew your potential dps is very unimportant. Better to blast her out of her socks at the start of the fight and finish the rest of the enemies  with the AoE guys.

 

It's the mixture...

 

That said: barb with carnage can have so many quirky albeit and effective setups - it's fun to play a barb. 

[JerekKruger]

Oh I know that burst is important of course, but Lampros was talking about the Paladin's superior overall damage. I just wanted to point out that barbs do very good overall damage.

 

On the right circumstances Heart of Fury can be extremely bursty of course, though those circumstances aren't always present.

[Lampros]

I think a Barbarian will write the floor with a Paladin when it comes to DPS. Early game they have carnage whereas the Paladin had no AoE, and when the Paladin gets Sacred Immolation the Barbarian gets Heart of Fury which assuming an encounter has enough enemies (which on PotD most do) will do stupid damage (see Kaylon's video where he two shots upscaled Magran's Faithful on PotD).

 

Of course he's not so obviously a good tank and he doesn't provide party support in the way a Paladin does.

 

Hmmm, it would be interesting to test and compare. The biggest issue for me about the Barbarian is that I'd like my front-liners be really sturdy, and the low Deflection is really putting me off.

 

And the barb doesn't provide burst damage - at which the paladin can be really good.

 

People always talk about dps here, dps there - but it's also very important to take out high priority targets that can screw you really fast. 2 FoD attack can do that if you use the right talents and items. If a Battery Siren paralyzes your whole crew your potential dps is very unimportant. Better to blast her out of her socks at the start of the fight and finish the rest of the enemies  with the AoE guys.

 

It's the mixture...

 

That said: barb with carnage can have so many quirky albeit and effective setups - it's fun to play a barb. 

 

How would you compare Fighter single target burst DPS with that of the Paladin?

[Boeroer]

The burst damage (there is no burst dps) of the fighter is shice. Well not too bad, but he only gets +25% (+Confident Aim) more base damage than the paladin while the paladin can deliver two attacks with +120% lash (against 0 DR)  Until the fighter gets Charge, then he does superawesome burst "AoE burst" damage turns into one of the best "alpha strikers" in the team I'd say.

Paladin is better in terms of burst damage or "alpha strike", especially if he uses arquebuses. No running around - just fire from stealth, switch, fire again.

 

But on the other hand the figher has a nice single target Knockdown which can be reliably used to disable annoying enemies. That's a good alternative to burst damage. When the enemy lies on the floor the fighter has an easy time finishing the job because he does better auto-attack damage and is usually faster due to Armored Grace.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Boeroer

[Lampros]

The burst damage (there is no burst dps) of the fighter is shice. Well not too bad, but he only gets +25% (+Confident Aim) more base damage than the paladin while the paladin can deliver two attacks with +120% lash (against 0 DR)  Until the fighter gets Charge, then he does superawesome burst "AoE burst" damage turns into one of the best "alpha strikers" in the team I'd say.

 

Paladin is better in terms of burst damage or "alpha strike", especially if he uses arquebuses. No running around - just fire from stealth, switch, fire again.

 

But on the other hand the figher has a nice single target Knockdown which can be reliably used to disable annoying enemies. That's a good alternative to burst damage. When the enemy lies on the floor the fighter has an easy time finishing the job because he does better auto-attack damage and is usually faster due to Armored Grace.

 

All right. I am going 1 Paladin and 1 Fighter for the front-line. That decides it. I will miss the dual Paladin auras, but even for testing purposes I will run both of these dual wield. I will do dual wield v. 2H test in a later PotD playthrough.

[Boeroer]

If you don't use mind control in your party then a fighter's "Take the Hit" is actually very good and better than Zealous Endurance - when you combine it with high self heals and max CON.

 

With mind control involved it's totally bugged and bonkers.   

[Blades of Vanatar]

All characters have decent deflection in the late game. Barb may not have 'tank the Dragon' level deflection but will still have good deflection in the late game. By then your party buffs more than compensate anyway. It's only the early game when low deflection is even noticeable.

 

So don't think Pallys have an edge there. They really don't by end game. Unless you are soloing. But that's a whole other topic. If you want two frontline tanks who can still deal DPS any combo of Pally/Fighter/Barb/Monk will work. I think high level Monks are the bomb tbh, solo or party. High level Fighters are awesome party members as are Barbs.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Blades of Vanatar

[Lampros]

All characters have decent deflection in the late game. Barb may not have 'tank the Dragon' level deflection but will still have good deflection in the late game. By then your party buffs more than compensate anyway. It's only the early game when low deflection is even noticeable.

 

So don't think Pallys have an edge there. They really don't by end game. Unless you are soloing. But that's a whole other topic. If you want two frontline tanks who can still deal DPS any combo of Pally/Fighter/Barb/Monk will work. I think high level Monks are the bomb tbh, solo or party. High level Fighters are awesome party members as are Barbs.

 

I've decided to include the Barbarian and take out the extra archer Chanter. I've read several posts now in another forum where folks stressed the need for a Barbarian to AoE stun/prone foes, and those posts persuaded me.