Whom do I give Gyrd Háewanes Sténes?

[MasterCipher]

If you have a druid, I'd give to druid.

The problem with dominate is that it is bugged and breaks prematurely.

Another problem with dominate is enemies become immune to foe only AoEs.

I find dominate/charm more useful when it's deliberately cast to prevent an enemy from attacking you or getting enemies to attack the charmed creature instead of your party.

[mosspit]

I didn't notice what the tooltips description for Whispers or Puppet Master were tbh. It has been Whispers being average cast and Puppet Master being fast cast based on play experience since my previous playthrough before the one I just had, which done last year.

 

Pretty obvious to tell - For Whispers the character will be stuck in a casting stance for some time. For PM, the character will just start the casting animation if its not in recovery. Also, not based on video capture so not frame perfect analysis.

Edited October 3, 2017 by mosspit

[Lampros]

Dominate is special because it doesn't alter the stats of the enemy. So when he profits from a bonus of yours it's a bad thing.

 

Charmed enemies are a lot weaker because charmed is also a hefty debuff. It doesn't matter that much if charmed enemies get Zealous Endurance - their defenses are so abysmal because of charm that they will die quickly if you attack them during the charm duration.

 

Hmmm, but once they revert to normal status, they lose Charmed status and still keep the buffs though. This is what happened when I nearly wiped on Maerwald. Of course, I would have focused him earlier if I knew all this...

[Lampros]

If you have a druid, I'd give to druid.

The problem with dominate is that it is bugged and breaks prematurely.

Another problem with dominate is enemies become immune to foe only AoEs.

I find dominate/charm more useful when it's deliberately cast to prevent an enemy from attacking you or getting enemies to attack the charmed creature instead of your party.

 

Agreed. At any rate, I don't think I will give my Wizard the Gyrd any more. Blast means more Dominates, and I like the Priest bound spell better, too.

[mosspit]

One thing for sure, Ringleader is a really bad CC option

 

Makes me wonder if the confused status which flips allegiance is buggy as well.... I am planning to use Confusion regularly in my current playthrough. A little uncertain now lol

[Lampros]

One thing for sure, Ringleader is a really bad CC option

 

Makes me wonder if the confused status which flips allegiance is buggy as well.... I am planning to use Confusion regularly in my current playthrough. A little uncertain now lol

 

I think these were the issues that made me a bit disappointed with the Cipher when I first used him. (But perhaps I went in with unrealistic expectations, because people sang his praises constantly.) Maybe I'd feel differently if I used the non-CC spells on Cipher, but I don't want to try again. It was a bit too much micro all around - especially when I always have 2 other micro-heavy classes (Priest and Wizard).

[JerekKruger]

@JereKruger: You might wanna check Whispers again. I just did a playthrough with a Cipher, and also did a test as well.

 

 

Whisper of Treason is officially a fast cast and Master of Puppets is as well - in theory.

 

However, in game you will see that Master of Puppets is at least twice as fast (if not faster) than Whisper of Treason. Either Whisper of Treason still has average cast time despite the description - or Master of Puppets has something like instant casting time despite the description. I suspect the first one is true...?

 

I remember that MaxQuests posted a list of actual casting times a while ago - but I can't find it...

 

Huh, interesting. I had always assumed each spell with the same casting time descriptor had the same casting time, but I guess there's some variation within each category. That definitely makes Master of Puppets useful in some cases.

[Boeroer]

It should be the case. I think it's just a minor bug or oversight.

[mammasaura]

I usually give it to the druid if the porpuse is to spiritshift at the beginning of the fight to have fast recoveries on spells (cast time, I think, remains the same).

It's like casting without armor, so an heavy armored druid should benefits better from this than an already light armored one.

For instance I use this on my fire Hiravias with the armor Sun-Touched Mail of Hyran Rath.

 

The added raw damage is amazing, add dangerous implements + penetrating shot to the mix.

 

The only problem is the restore spiritshift triggers regardless if you have spiritshift viable or not, and, yeah, dominate, sometimes breaks your plan, but better on a druid than on a blast wizard.

Edited October 4, 2017 by mammasaura

[Boeroer]

Just a side note: Spiritshifting will not quicken your casting animation nor the recovery of casts. It doesn't give you more DEX or an attack speed bonus (unless you use a cat's 1/ rest haste).

 

You might have the impression though because your melee attacks will have a very short animation and recovery and thus you can cast sooner after a melee attack. But shifting in order to gain higher casting speed in general is not working. If you're wearing heavy armor (higher penalty than the natural armor of the shifted form) then it's a smart move I have to admit.

 

It would be really clever to wear Sanguine Plate, catch a crit, get Frenzy and then shift in order to cast with higher speed. You'll lose the armor penalty and gain +33% faster recovery (for casting and hitting) at the same time.

 

Of course wearing Sanguine Plate and wielding an implement looks kind of silly.

[Boeroer]

It's like casting without armor, so an heavy armored druid should benefits better from this than an already light armored one.

 

Actually, after a bit more thinking, I came to the conclusion that this is really smart - and I never thought about this. If you want to prevent rushing you simply put your druid into plate armor and give him a large shield and hatchet - and when enemies are setteled you shift for better casting speed and accuracy - even if you don't want to use the shifted form for melee. Man, why didn't I think of this sooner? Thanks man!

[mammasaura]

Ok, so I did right thinking wrong! :D

 

Well, actually, I lke to play with npc companion and didn't find a viable build for my Hiravias, the ginger one, never used, wanted to use him, good iteractions with other npcs too!

 

In general, I was thinking about druids and try to find a build for my Hiravias: or they can go full tank and bypass spiritshift, or go full spiritshift, stacking a lot of talents for an ability you can use only once a time during fights.

I wanted something different for the porpuse of my team, a caster, but that can guard the backline too.

 

I was already aware of Cat's insane speed boost and guess what...Hiravias has it! Glimpse of a mad spellcaster in my mind.

I wanted to find an usage of spiritshift differently and maybe I found it. Was only 1 part of the puzzle, needed the durable part, so I searched for armors and Sun-Touched Mail of Hyran Rath came to my mind.

Never used that armor, always thought was terrible (I think mail armor are bad in general), but you get it early in the game, has 3x/rest sunbeam, that's an amazing spell (fire + blind, guess what, 0 recovery if casted by the armor! So you can literally bombard 3 times in a row nearly instantly or chain sunbeam + cast another spell soon after), good for Hiravias.

I have my fiery guard mad mage, the ginger Hiravias.

 

The last decision was GHS or Curoc's Brand. Shortly, GHS is better in any case, you get early, raw damage, high accuracy for druid, restore spiritshift, if I really want, I can also use the second spiritshift to go melee thanks to the widlstrike belt, another item you get early.

I can give him weapon focus ruffian and boost the GHS + my later The Flames of Fair Rhîan with its 3 fireballs.

 

Hiravias is on fire!

 

Sidenote but offtopic: I think also a pistol/blunderbuss can be used instead of GHS, if the restore spiritshift doesn't appeal or lacking of firearm bearers. Focus Ruffian still works and without penetrating shot and using a pistol with speed (like Forgiveness, another weapon early in game), the recovery between GHS (with penetrating shot) and the pistol (without penetrating and with speed) is going to differ by only 5 frames, of course without taking in consideration the reload, but I found is more important the recovery from a weapon than having or not a reload. You can cancel the reload and start casting instantly, but you have to wait the recovery (poor warbows with penetrating shot ).

The cons is the lack of accuracy because of firearms, that hurts the druid, but it's still an option if aiming to get runner's wounding shot, if not, keep the juicy accuracy by GHS and take envenomed strike!

 

Thank to you btw, you're my knowledge of the mechanics of this game :D

Edited October 4, 2017 by mammasaura

[MasterCipher]

A poor summary from what I remember on Max's breakdown of WOT. It has a cast time of an average spell ( 2 sec ), but nearly 0 recovery. This is a negative if you have good recovery, which most optimal builds will. However, if you are clunking around in plate armor this quirk is beneficial. Even with the unusual cast/recovery, it's still a great ability for a mere 10 focus to alliance flip a dragon ( I love me some -25 all defense debuff ). Eyestrike also has a quirky cast time, but even though it targets fortitude, it is still another great 10 focus ability that applies a power AoE blind affliction and daze on target. 

 

Confusion is, in most cases superior to charm because it doesn't prematurely break. You can trivialize most encounters by initiating combat from stealth and casting confusion, fighting at ranged, and continually keeping 1 or more enemies confused because most enemies will focus fire on your confused victims instead of your party. The randomness that comes into play with confusion when you pull = when the enemy rolls "behave normally", which seems like a 33% chance - because enemies will attack your puller. This isn't very PETA friendly, but I position my ranger sponge pet in front of my puller.

[Boeroer]

Yes, I was searching for that threat where he posted it but I couldn't find it.

[dgray62]

A poor summary from what I remember on Max's breakdown of WOT. It has a cast time of an average spell ( 2 sec ), but nearly 0 recovery. This is a negative if you have good recovery, which most optimal builds will. However, if you are clunking around in plate armor this quirk is beneficial. Even with the unusual cast/recovery, it's still a great ability for a mere 10 focus to alliance flip a dragon ( I love me some -25 all defense debuff ). Eyestrike also has a quirky cast time, but even though it targets fortitude, it is still another great 10 focus ability that applies a power AoE blind affliction and daze on target. 

 

Confusion is, in most cases superior to charm because it doesn't prematurely break. You can trivialize most encounters by initiating combat from stealth and casting confusion, fighting at ranged, and continually keeping 1 or more enemies confused because most enemies will focus fire on your confused victims instead of your party. The randomness that comes into play with confusion when you pull = when the enemy rolls "behave normally", which seems like a 33% chance - because enemies will attack your puller. This isn't very PETA friendly, but I position my ranger sponge pet in front of my puller.

 

From my experience running a party with two ciphers, a heavily armored DPS melee cipher and a ranged CC cipher, WoT is by far the superior ability. I can't speak to the relative cast time, but this is because I no longer use the Dominate abilities, due to the bug. Many times I landed a crit and scored a 20 or 30 second dominate, only to have it break after a second or two. WoT is far more reliable in my experience, and as a bonus the remained foes usually swarm their comrade afflicted with it, since it debuffs as well.

[dgray62]

 

It's like casting without armor, so an heavy armored druid should benefits better from this than an already light armored one.

 

Actually, after a bit more thinking, I came to the conclusion that this is really smart - and I never thought about this. If you want to prevent rushing you simply put your druid into plate armor and give him a large shield and hatchet - and when enemies are setteled you shift for better casting speed and accuracy - even if you don't want to use the shifted form for melee. Man, why didn't I think of this sooner? Thanks man!

 

Boeroer, you may have never thought of this consciously, but the heavily armored (with sanguine plate) boar spiritshift druid you suggested in another thread definitely benefits from this. As you recommended, I run this druid into combat (with a hatchet and shield), and then shift once frenzy is activated. He can cast spells much faster while shifted without the speed penalty from the plate armor. I like to cast spells like returning storm, however, at the start of battle, to benefit from the longer duration and area of effect from items that boost INT, which are lost when you shift. I keep a GHS in his other hand, and switch to it when spiritshift expires. It doesn't take long to proc restore spiritshift, and with luck you'll get hit again and proc frenzy one more time. This only happens in the harder battles, however. Most end long before spiritshift expires. So it's probably best to give GHS to a priest if you don't have a druid.