Meaningless levels in quest mode?

[Thyraxus]

Don't some (most) of the levels in the quest mode seem rather pointless? I mean, not the ones where you get power/skill/card feats, those are the meat of the game, the ones where you can really grow and develop your characters. I mean the "random boon" ones.

 

Let me illustrate: imagine a guy, working at the candy factory as a candy inspector. All day, every day, he sees tons of candy and can eat as much as he wants of it (for quality control purposes, of course). And then, when Christmas finally comes around, he's looking forward to what nice gifts his loved ones have for him, and what does he get? A candy. Not even a bag of them, just one piece of candy. Of the same sort that his factory makes. And probably even the sort that he likes least.

 

That's the kind of feeling I have on every levelup in quest mode where the reward is a random boon. I mean, I already have spent a lot of time digging through dozens, if not hundreds, of random cards to get there, and what do I get? One more random card. And most probably just another piece of junk like a Dull Shortsword, or yet another potion that nobody except a Drunken Master would even give a second thought about giving up an item slot in his deck for to keep it around.

 

I understand that this parallels the story mode, but there's a difference. Yes, in story mode, there are scenarios where the reward is a random boon. Perfectly understandable, the game can't hand out a permanent ability increase on every scenario (otherwise the characters would become too strong too fast, so the game balance and possibly the core mechanics would have to be radically different, or the adventure path would have to be a lot shorter), but there these rewards are on top of what you already get: that is, advancing the story, progressing into the next scenario - that is a reward all on its own.

 

But in quest mode, your reward for, say, level 13, is that you get to watch the game increase a number. Plus you get (probably) another Battered Wooden Shield to toss on the pile with the other junk you picked up from the previous scenario. And you earn the right to start working on your next level. That's all: a meaningless increase to a (in this context) meaningless number (since mechanically, unlike typical RPGs where each level usually has something new to add to your character, the new level makes no difference at all) and one more card to throw away.

 

That's what Diablo would have been like if you had only gotten new attribute points to distribute on every 5th levelup, and the other levels in between had done nothing to any of your stats and instead had just "rewarded" you by adding another 'cracked sash' to your inventory (even then, at least in Diablo you could sell those for a gold piece or something...).

 

Seriously, I have already played 8 characters to the level cap, and not one of them got a random boon levelup reward that was worth keeping around.

 

I don't really know what is in store for the future of Quest Mode, but I really wish there was a way to make (all of the) level ups really mean something again. Either by revamping the advancement (reduce the number of levels by cutting the number of useless "random boon" levels - maybe to somthing like 5-8 per tier, but increase the amount of XP to reach the next one so it still takes roughly the same time to reach the level cap) or by increasing the chance that the cards you get really feel like a reward (like, only give out treasure cards, which are inherently kind of cool, even though some of them are still kind of underwhelming, or let the player pick his own cards from the set, or at least a small selection of randoms). Or both.

 

Sure, I don't think anything like this is going to happen. But I can still dream, can't I?

[LexLoci]

I feel like just letting you select a boon of X level would go a long way towards making this experience feel more worthwhile. I stopped playing quest mode a long time ago because it just didn't feel rewarding at all and I could advance characters through story mode much faster if I wanted to try out a different character/role/build.

[Hannibal_PJV]

The quest mode is very much like old tabletop rpg games where you get new level aka something new about one playing time from four to six.

If there is a problem it is that while the normal tabletop Patfinder adventures is very slow game. (One or two game in a week or a month) the app is very fast. 2-4 games in a hour or two. So there is no much content for fast games. Quest mode try to offer playing time for longer games and I personally like quest mode more than story mode. But that is ofcourse matter of personal taste.

But traditionally roleplaying games have long time between next upgrade at least in the higher levels.

[Thyraxus]

The quest mode is very much like old tabletop rpg games where you get new level aka something new about one playing time from four to six.

But in tabletop RPGs a new level gives you usually something new, something solid, a permanent way to improve your character. A handful of skill points, a new ability, something that matters, that actually affects the way the game plays, however little - sometimes by giving you entirely new options, often by just making it easier to use the ones you already have, allowing you to take on new challenges.

 

In this game, the "random boon" levels give you nothing other than a random draw of a card that you're probably just going to throw away - apart from increasing your level number by one they have no effect at all in the game other than letting you start working on your next levelup - but then they could have just made that last level last twice as long and skipped the levelup in-between and it would have changed pretty much nothing. Except for that single extra random card draw that is exactly like the hundreds you already had to go through actually playing the scenarios. It's like one extra raindrop during a thunderstorm. And that's supposed to be a reward?

Edited October 26, 2016 by Thyraxus

[mccrispy]

I absolutely get what the OP is saying about useless Card Rewards: I too have never had a useful card as a Reward. However, I disagree that the fix is to reduce the number of levels - because that would make "grinding" levels a real chore - especially for those that only play on Normal difficulty. Currently, it takes around 2-3 Legendary successes to level up, if it took 5 or more it would be a drag (and think how many Normal level successes that would be!). So while I hate those Card Rewards for level ups where it's just a "spacer" level, and agree that something better would be nice, I'm not prepared to swap an increased "grind" for an elimination of those spacer levels.

[Hannibal_PJV]

 

The quest mode is very much like old tabletop rpg games where you get new level aka something new about one playing time from four to six.

 

But in tabletop RPGs a new level gives you usually something new, something solid, a permanent way to improve your character. A handful of skill points, a new ability, something that matters, that actually affects the way the game plays, however little - sometimes by giving you entirely new options.

Yes They do, but I don't consider random card rewards as getting level, because They don't give you anything.

[Thyraxus]

I disagree that the fix is to reduce the number of levels - because that would make "grinding" levels a real chore - especially for those that only play on Normal difficulty. Currently, it takes around 2-3 Legendary successes to level up, if it took 5 or more it would be a drag (and think how many Normal level successes that would be!).

But those extra levels have no effect on the way the game plays, at all. All you get is to watch a number increase*.

 

Consider this: you play 3 scenarios, get to watch a number tick up, play 3 more, and watch it go up again. Or, you play 6 scenarios in a row and watch it tick up only once, without that extra tick in between. It's essentially exactly the same thing! Mechanically, the extra tick in between means nothing. Nothing at all. That second set of 3 scenarios would play exactly the same, with or without that levelup in between. It doesn't matter.

 

The only difference is that that little pavlovian center in your brain gets tickled one additional time, when you go "yay, levelup" for a split second. But if you really think about it, it doesn't matter at all. It's about as exciting as watching the second hand of a clock move. "Yay, another second passed". Wow. What a thrill.

 

In RPGs that extra levelup at least gives you something that affects the game in some way, even if it is minuscule. Another skill point, a handful of HP, something tangible. Something that lets you either do something you couldn't do before, or something that lets you do something you could already do, but better. Something that gives you new options. Something that has a noticeable effect on the game.

 

Here, you get essentially nothing except a new level number*. That +1 to your level doesn't let you do anything differently. Your character is still exactly the same. You can't do anything new, you can't do anything old better than before. No change. No growth. No development. At all. In other words (and my opinion, at least): completely pointless.

 

* yes, and those random boons. Meh.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Thyraxus

[kurtalb1]

I absolutely get what the OP is saying about useless Card Rewards: I too have never had a useful card as a Reward. However, I disagree that the fix is to reduce the number of levels - because that would make "grinding" levels a real chore - especially for those that only play on Normal difficulty. Currently, it takes around 2-3 Legendary successes to level up, if it took 5 or more it would be a drag (and think how many Normal level successes that would be!). So while I hate those Card Rewards for level ups where it's just a "spacer" level, and agree that something better would be nice, I'm not prepared to swap an increased "grind" for an elimination of those spacer levels.

 

I find it hard to believe that you have NEVER gotten a useful card reward.  I admit it isn't common to obtain a useful card reward, but I have received valuable cards many times (Deathbane Crossbow, Spyglass, Holy Light, etc.)  

[Nathan Davis]

Sooo... Funny you should mention this, we've got a quest mode update coming in the next release that revises card rewards to be more likely to give you something valuable.

 

Cards rewards will always get you at least a non-basic, this later becomes non-basic, non-elite, then starts to have a minimum deck #. 

 

Also, we are making many card rewards more customized for each character. Let's take Level 26 for example.

 

Lem gets a Spell.  Harsk gets Light Armor. Ezren gets an Arcane Spell. And Amiri gets a 2-Handed Weapon.

 

One more thing! Certain levels give very specific card rewards. Let's take level 39 for example. Harsk receives a Black Arrow Ranger, Lini gets Major Cure and Merisiel will get a Venomous Dagger +2.

 

At this point, many of you are thinking...okay, but what about raising the level cap?

Unfortunately, not yet. We are focusing most of our efforts on story content at the moment, which has left very little room for our small team to build (and test). All of the Quest content we want to push out.

[24well24]

Well, thats good, but why not to make a one-time rewards instead like unique card for this character for 40ish levels and gold or treasure chest as mid- level reward?

And thats wont be too generous, just a worthy reward for developing your character.

 

Or another way is to apply a unique card pool that will be awailable via promoting heroes. This cards will move both to characters inventory and collection....

[wakasm]

I've posted this before, but I still think that this would fix a lot of the issues with how leveling works in quest mode: 

• XP Level Rewards should be Card Feats, Power Feats, Skill Feats, and maybe Loot Cards (only) - Basically unique things not found in locations

 

The basic idea of making levels be super meaningful, and let people grow characters through finding loot, like the game generally intends you to do anyway. 

 

Full details on my thoughts on it here - link

[Pediatron]

I am curious how this new system of rewards would work with characters that are already at level 40 -- do they lose out because they have been playing the game --- do we all have to start completely over to get the benefits of the new system??

[Ethics Gradient]

I am curious how this new system of rewards would work with characters that are already at level 40 -- do they lose out because they have been playing the game --- do we all have to start completely over to get the benefits of the new system??

If you already have a party at level 40, there's little to suggest that the level 1-39 improvements will be of much interest to you anyway.  The drop improvements described seem to scale with player level/tier, so unless they start mixing in a few of the Loot cards, you've probably already "outgrown" whatever the update might give.

 

However it will be really nice after the level cap moves up.  Possibly being guaranteed a couple AD4 (or better!) cards would be great.  Not being gifted the occasional Mattock would also be pretty great.  

[24well24]

Well in case of my own idea of new card pool for levelling rewards, you will not be able to collect all cards by just only one levelling of all chars to lvl 40, so there will be a point in replaying a quest mode from very beginning. In case of future multiplayer this will make quests more rewarding for those who will make a replays after a some time, and from other side, there will be a more opportunity for brand new players to get the needed party with level that match his/her own characters, so this will made the game more friendly to new players in future:)

[delpheki]

I just picked the game up again after not touching it in several months.  I've wiped my phone since then and lost everything but there have been 2 new content patches since so I didn't mind starting over in story mode with a new team.  After finishing story mode I figured I would start quest mode to outfit my team with all the shiny gear from chests.  I was optimistic in thinking the dev's would have done something to make quest mode less endlessly grueling and boy was I wrong.

 

I am just really disappointed to be level 5 with a 5 man team and finish a long game that comes down to 4 life and not even get enough experience to level.  The experience rank scaling is completely off putting and I think I'll just have to put the game down again until the next content patch and just stick to story.