Going to ultimate achivement, class suggestion?

[Raven Darkholme]

During my trials to kill llengrath i tried also the shielding chant and the +20 accuracy vs beast chant, but the results were inferior to simply chain swift Wind + +10fort,+10 will chant.

This for 2 reasons: the phrase building was much slower and doesn't allow for 7 night anymore, and the fact that the phrase is so long actually is like "disable" the effect of the +10 fort, +10 will chant, that is much needed... The effect in itself is quite strong indeed.

 

Another thing: i have also thought for sure that a wild Orlan Would have been the best race for this, but after seeing how the large majority of dragon attacks are prone-based or stun-based i'm wondering if a costal amanua (for his +20 def to stun & prone) can actually performance better and give you better utility game-long, since they are by far the most common disable ( warrior's, monks, most mobs with cc have prone)

I'd be inclined to think 30 pt shield is stronger than 10 fort + will, but since you actually tried it I go with your judgment for now.

[DynEira]

 

 

Don't go low Mi with a cipher cause Echo.

I'd rather lower Con and put it in Mi at least as soon as you have access to Botanic Garden and Creature parts in your stronghold chest and can craft unlimited Vital essence potions.

 

 

14 Might with 12 Con? 

I was fairly worried about survivability in fights as I often find no matter how high my defenses are I'm going to be taking hits and I figured the more shots I could take the more room for beating the fight I had.

[Raven Darkholme]

 

 

Don't go low Mi with a cipher cause Echo.

I'd rather lower Con and put it in Mi at least as soon as you have access to Botanic Garden and Creature parts in your stronghold chest and can craft unlimited Vital essence potions.

 

 

14 Might with 12 Con? 

I was fairly worried about survivability in fights as I often find no matter how high my defenses are I'm going to be taking hits and I figured the more shots I could take the more room for beating the fight I had.

 

Yeah 12 Con are fine with resting and food that's still 14-16 Con.

And with item up to 19.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[DynEira]

That's great!

Two other question then! Would it be worth doing quick upgrades early on. Adding fine/elemental weaknesses & creature specific bonuses to weapons as soon as you can to eek out advantages? Would a higher DR medium armour or a lower DR heavy armour be worth it or as it is a solo run just do full heavy DR armours?

Thanks so much for answering my questions, very much appreciated and I love the theory crafting as it really helps me understand specific things better. 

[Jojobobo]

In terms of optimum invocations for a Chanter solo, what do people think they are? I was thinking:

 

Level - invocation

1 - But Reny Daret's Ghost, He Would Not Rest

2 - White Worms Writhed in the Bellies of the Dead

4 - Not Felled By Axe, Nor Broken By Storm or whatever

6 - The Lover Cried out to the Beloved, "I am Yours!"

8 - Shatter their Shackles, Cast off their Chains!

10/12/14 - Seven Nights She Waited While the White Winds Wept/The Bride Caught their Ruse and Set to Make Them Pay/The Brideman Slew Thirty 'Fore They Crossed Half the Floor

16 - Called to His Bidding, the Ancient Instruments of Death

 

The things I'm not ever so sure about are whether Urdel and Gurdel are better than Instruments of Death, or whether a summon should be forgone entirely for Killers Froze Stiff.

 

Reny Daret's Ghost and White Worms should be useful early game, giving you a free summon and Worms as a finisher once you've made headway into a mob and got a good group of bodies. Charming mobs is always of massive utility, so The Lover Cried at 6 seems to be the best bet here. Shatter their Shackles should coincide more or less with Vithrack fighting on the Endless Paths level 9. Seven Nights/Bride/Brideman seem pretty optimum for a meaty attack and for the attribute (and so defense buffs). Winds o' Eld Nary could be squeezed in, by they seem more or less on par with Seven Nights by with more phrases needed.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Jojobobo

[DynEira]

In terms of optimum invocations for a Chanter solo, what do people think they are? I was thinking:

 

Level - invocation

1 - But Reny Daret's Ghost, He Would Not Rest

2 - White Worms Writhed in the Bellies of the Dead

4 - Not Felled By Axe, Nor Broken By Storm or whatever

6 - The Lover Cried out to the Beloved, "I am Yours!"

8 - Shatter their Shackles, Cast off their Chains!

10/12/14 - Seven Nights She Waited While the White Winds Wept/The Bride Caught their Ruse and Set to Make Them Pay/The Brideman Slew Thirty 'Fore They Crossed Half the Floor

16 - Called to His Bidding, the Ancient Instruments of Death

 

The things I'm not ever so sure about are whether Urdel and Gurdel are better than Instruments of Death, or whether a summon should be forgone entirely for Killers Froze Stiff.

 

Reny Daret's Ghost and White Worms should be useful early game, giving you a free summon and Worms as a finisher once you've made headway into a mob and got a good group of bodies. Charming mobs is always of massive utility, so The Lover Cried at 6 seems to be the best bet here. Shatter their Shackles should coincide more or less with Vithrack fighting on the Endless Paths level 9. Seven Nights/Bride/Brideman seem pretty optimum for a meaty attack and for the attribute (and so defense buffs). Winds o' Eld Nary could be squeezed in, by they seem more or less on par with Seven Nights by with more phrases needed.

The 3 skeletons are usually good for soaking up aggro and I think at level 4 you can have them near permanently up. The spirit can usually be placed straight on top of a spell caster and solo it. 

[Sfzrx]

I get pretty annoyed with the fact that chanter's offensive invocations (damage/paralyze/charm) all doesn't have an accuracy bonus like the rest of the spell casters, so their accuracy will always be 10/15 points lower end game, unless one of the enemies' stat is really low, I guess their higher base accuracy compensates for that, but it's probably better to priortize buff inovations and summon invocationss.

 

Now that i think about it, paralysis scroll's +15 accuracy paralyze sounds simply better than the paralyze invocation.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Sfzrx

[Raven Darkholme]

I play mostly without invocations from level 9 up to not interrupt dragon chant stacking.

[Jojobobo]

Just started with a Chanter, and holy crap is the Phantom powerful early game. Taking Veteran's Recovery level 2 (Ancient Memory still being bugged I didn't want to take it, plus from what I see Veteran's Recovery heals the same as Ancient Memory in the first place for an equal duration) all I have to do is literally stand there and let the ghost do absolutely all the work. By the time the first Phantom's duration expires, I then have enough phrases to get another and so the process repeats. Beyond that, overlapping Soft Winds of Death phrases let you rapidly drain opponents' health (the wolves in Valewood got destroyed) again by just standing there. It's by far the easiest opening I've had PotD solo.

 

On the flip side, I really wouldn't recommend the skeletons - they do no damage even when they do successfully flank and they go down extremely easily. By Act II, weaker multiple minion figurines (Wood Beetle, Wurm) can be used to soak aggro anyway - and then you can get your Phantom on the case again once they expire.

[Dr <3]

Good news, i tryed the fight again with shielding chant + 2 swift wind of death and worked good too. I just used the invocation for +5 might, +5 const, + 5 res and swift wind, skipped totally the bride invocation, was not a problem.

I changed also the weapon, steadfast worked pretty good and helped landing the swift wind of death that are actually a fair enough killing dragon tool

 

@ jojobobo:

i played chanter a lot, i suggest you:

phrase: swift wind (++++), +10 fort +10 will (++++), wengrith (++), arrow speed phrase (++), resistance to fear and terror (+), dragon thrashed  (++++), whatever, shielding chant (+++), +20 accuracy vs beast chant or +100% healing chant

invocations: lvl 1 : ghost (+++), white worms (++), stun whave/lighting spell; lvl 2: paralyze invocation (+++)  healing invocation, lvl 3:  seven nights (+++), +5 str, +5 cons, +5 res, (+++), ogre  (++) or bride invocation (+), lvl 4 : nothing, lvl 5 : death instruments

 

reasons:

- ghost is very strong at the beginning

- white worms can stack otrageusly high amount of dmgs with enough corpes

- stunning invocation is strong enough, at higher lvls you can chain stun all the mobs while killing slowly them with winds of death

- healing invocation can be an emergency button sometimes

- seven nights is by far your best AOE dmg. The main reasons that put it over the tornado (lvl 5 invocation) are that the projectiles go trough enemies and can hit a lot of them when in line, or hit multiple time "big" enemies near; moreover it hits reflex instead of fortitude that is usually the weakest defence of the mobs (and with good timing and high int you can hit with it after the paralyze invocation, with massive bonus)

- +5 to str, con, res : is one of my new favored, it traduces in +20 fort + 5 deflection, plus dmg and health bonus. Very useful whn tanking dragons

- ogre are good meatsheilds (they both have 300 endurance more or less), so i think they are a bit better than bride chant when you need to soak up some dmg

- 4 lvl stuff is worst than 3 lvl stuff imho

- you have to pick at least 1 lvl 5 invocation, so your chant stack can go up to 7 (wich is useful for chaining). My suggestion is to invoke the weapon, they don't have the best stats and can't tank like the ogres, but have a lot of immunities and do good dmg. And the boiling spray is worst than 7 night for dmg.

 

phrases:

- wrenght is strong at the beginning if you need to escape or kite

- +10 fort, + 10 will is strong vs boss fights to up the defences

- swift wind will be your main dmg tool up to lvl 9

- dragon trashed will be your main dmg tool after lvl 9

- shielding chant is good when you have strong def, otherwise is solo expires too fast

- i can't understand if in a boss fight would be more useful have +20 accuracy or +100% heal to regenerate like crazy with the vital essence infusion potions, but i actually don't use them often

 

edit: like you already noted skeletron are crappy

edit #2 : gallant focus is actually a very good pick because it affect the accuracy of phrases too

Edited August 16, 2016 by Dr <3

[Dr <3]

I get pretty annoyed with the fact that chanter's offensive invocations (damage/paralyze/charm) all doesn't have an accuracy bonus like the rest of the spell casters, so their accuracy will always be 10/15 points lower end game, unless one of the enemies' stat is really low, I guess their higher base accuracy compensates for that, but it's probably better to priortize buff inovations and summon invocationss.

 

Now that i think about it, paralysis scroll's +15 accuracy paralyze sounds simply better than the paralyze invocation.

yes it is. With the scroll you have more accuracy and a more confortable area to hit everyone (the invocation is a cone, so maybe you miss some of the more near mobs). The vantage of the invocation is that is free.

[Jojobobo]

Thanks for the tips Dr <3, quite a lot of it I'd sussed out already but it's good for the confirmation.

 

In terms of taking a level 5 invocation, I'm guessing if you don't take it your song starts and stops at fewer phrases with there being a delay between chants? If that's the case, is this delay period affected by dexterity at all so I know whether to dump it or not? I would rather take Urdel and Gurdel over the animated weapons as my build is such that I only have a slot for one late game summon (I'm not getting into any specifics about what I'm doing at this point as the build should be fairly unheard of for a Chanter and I want to make a class build out of it if it's a success - from initial testing my ideas seem to work), does it really suck in terms of Dragon Thrashed stacking to only 5 phrases in a chant?

 

Also, is the +deflection chant ever really worth taking or not? I was going to take Aefyllath as with a weapon burning lash you can get some decent damage out of it, particularly on an alpha strike - but if +deflection really has a lot to offer I may not.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

- stunning invocation is strong enough, at higher lvls you can chain stun all the mobs while killing slowly them with winds of death

 

- you have to pick at least 1 lvl 5 invocation, so your chant stack can go up to 7 (wich is useful for chaining).

Those two are important. At higher levels you can easily perma-paralyze the whole mob and grind them to death with Come Sweet Winds of Death (which are also swift with Brisk Recitation ). Just don't dump DEX because then the recovery after The Killers Froze Stiff will be very long, making it more likely that some mobs' paralyze will wear off before you can recast.

 

The second one is really stupid design, but it's like that and you are forced to pick at least one invocation of the hightest level or you count'er won't go up to the max.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Boeroer

[Jojobobo]

Thanks for the clarification, I'll make sure to take Killers Froze Stiff in that case over the Lover Cried for the paralysis-locking, I'll also pick up Ancient Instruments over Urdel and Gurdel too.

[Boeroer]

With the instruments I'm not entirely sure. One advantage of the ogres is that they take up a lot of space since they have bigger "base plates" than the weapons. They can block a way more easily than the weapons. But the weapons have a lot of CC immunities - also not bad. It depends on the enemies I guess.

[Dr <3]

Still waiting for your opinion costal amanua vs wild Orlan for the best defences vs dragons

[Boeroer]

Are you asking me? As I said: switch on The Dragon Thrashed and put on the Solace shield + any other preservation item and pray for prone or stunned. Your defenses will be +100, making you untouchable, and you're still doing damage. So for me: no no Coastal Aumaua.

[bigwillystyle]

I think it's a delta of +10 vs. Stun/Prone rather than +20.

 

The Wild Orlan is going to get an immediate +10 to Fortitude when the Dragon fires it's fear aura off, which will apply to stun/prone.  It'll also have a reflex bonus against the breath attack which is a plus.

 

I think it's a push personally.

[Raven Darkholme]

Are you asking me? As I said: switch on The Dragon Thrashed and put on the Solace shield + any other preservation item and pray for prone or stunned. Your defenses will be +100, making you untouchable, and you're still doing damage. So for me: no no Coastal Aumaua.

No you don't chant when prone or stunned I think.^^

(At least on stun it doesn't work)

[Boeroer]

If the stun effect from attacks is the same as from Withdraw, then you can. When withdrawn you keep on chanting (nice trick for solo chanters with Black Sanctuary: cast Withdraw on yourself and switch to the Solace shield). When prone you also do.

If it doesn't work when stunned "normally" then we'd have to look how the proportion of prone/stun is. If prone is a lot more common than stun in difficult encounters I'd still say Wild Orlan is better than Coastal Aumaua with this setup. Since you can't get hit a lot with +100 (or +70 to some because of stun) to all defenses it's no problem if you get stunned at all - even if you don't chant at that time. It only extends the fight a bit.

 

By the way: does anybody know if chanting breaks invisibility? If not that would also be great: turning invisible with the Cape of the Master Mystic and then just run around. But I guess it does because you can't chant when stealthed...

Edited August 16, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

If you get stunned by say a phantom you stop chanting.

[Dr <3]

I will test your idea when i have time ( too bad not today) but i fear that if a dragon hit you with a stun or prone, that came also with a lot of dmg attached. So ok, let say you are " invulnerable" for 3-10 seconds because proned and still chant, and heal a bit in the process, but when you are up again maybe you have the time for one potion before go to the ground again... Dunno i'm a bit sceptic i have to try it for see if it works, i feel like you will always stay to the ground while they slowly kill you...

[Boeroer]

You have to get hit by the damaging part of the attack first in order to trigger the roll for prone or stun. So a Coastal Aumaua will be damaged even more than a Wild Orlan because he lacks the +10 to deflection, reflex and fortitude. But he will suffer less often from prone or stun that follows.

 

You have a point with the potions though. That can be a disadvantage.

 

But still: the Coastal Aumua will only have +10 against stun and prone compared to the Wild Orland (and with the shield stun and prone are not that bad after all) while the Wild Orlan has +10 better defenses compared to the Aumaua (except against prone and stun). I'd say Wild Orlan wins. This is only in fights where his Defiant Resolve gets triggered all the time though. So against bounty Ogres or other enemies who stun or prone a lot without triggering Defiant Resolve a Coastal Aumaua would be better. Too bad we don't have a race shifting spell or ability. Or a shape shifting race or so. Would have been fun and easy to implement.

[Raven Darkholme]

You have to get hit by the damaging part of the attack first in order to trigger the roll for prone or stun. So a Coastal Aumaua will be damaged even more than a Wild Orlan because he lacks the +10 to deflection, reflex and fortitude. But he will suffer less often from prone or stun that follows.

 

You have a point with the potions though. That can be a disadvantage.

 

But still: the Coastal Aumua will only have +10 against stun and prone compared to the Wild Orland (and with the shield stun and prone are not that bad after all) while the Wild Orlan has +10 better defenses compared to the Aumaua (except against prone and stun). I'd say Wild Orlan wins. This is only in fights where his Defiant Resolve gets triggered all the time though. So against bounty Ogres or other enemies who stun or prone a lot without triggering Defiant Resolve a Coastal Aumaua would be better. Too bad we don't have a race shifting spell or ability. Or a shape shifting race or so. Would have been fun and easy to implement.

For some attacks like the phantoms somehow the +20 is also added to your deflection roll.

I took coastal aumaua in my trio party and at the end of the day I don't think it's much worse than Orlan but Orlan is the better choice for solo.

[Dr <3]

Yes in the end i went for wild Orlan... Up to now is going Pretty smooth, i'm lvl 8 at half act 2