So if I wanted to solo tank the Alpine Dragon...

[Jojobobo]

...how would I go about it? PotD, natch. I'm thinking of playing a Paladin, but I'm interested in hearing of any of classes who tank rather than kite it. I already have my unique spin on the Paladin I want to take (which I'll keep under-wraps until I do a class build for it) but I wanted to know the core essentials of tanking a beast like that. Normally I go for tanking via healing, and I would plan to kite stuff like the dragon - but tanking via super high defenses I'm not too sure of.

 

I watched

and it seemed, among other things, Deep Pockets was important in securing the victory. However, I was a little dubious about the low Int - doesn't that crap on Sacred Immolation, a huge benefit of a Paladin? I don't want to respec my build at any point, so you see what I'm saying about the Int (as far as I've heard, the only Exhortation that affects the player character is Liberating Exhortation, so in my mind there's only 8 abilities to choose anyway - one focus and then the rest that apply to solo characters, Sacred Immolation being one of them).

 

Also, in terms race for solo defense tanking - is a Wild Orlan really the best? I've always been a little dubious that stuff would target your Will defense that often, but if it does I guess it would be the better pick.

 

Teach me how to tank, and now to heal like a sucker that I'm currently doing

[Boeroer]

You don't need superhigh deflection to tank him, his slams and breath target other defenses. A Wild Orlan will be permanently buffed because the fear aura of the dragon attacks will (I think it even works when you used a Prayer gainst Fear and are immune, because your will gets attacked nonetheless). Kaylon will know.
So a Wild Orlan is pretty nice against all kinds of dragons and kin.

 

Also, I can imagine that a pale elf with Secrets of Rime, thick armor and Rhymrgand's Mantle plus potion of Bulwark against the Elements (does this stack with the DR of the mantle?) is worth a try. The breath should easily be survivable - even if it doesn't miss...?

[Jojobobo]

You don't need superhigh deflection to tank him, his slams and breath target other defenses. A Wild Orlan will be permanently buffed because the fear aura of the dragon attacks will (I think it even works when you used a Prayer gainst Fear and are immune, because your will gets attacked nonetheless). Kaylon will know.

So a Wild Orlan is pretty nice against all kinds of dragons and kin.

 

Also, I can imagine that a pale elf with Secrets of Rime, thick armor and Rhymrgand's Mantle plus potion of Bulwark against the Elements (does this stack with the DR of the mantle?) is worth a try. The breath should easily be survivable - even if it doesn't miss...?

By the calcs I'm currently running I should have 142 reflex without any potions, so with the potions too I think I should do more or less okay.

 

I guess I was just wondering about the Int dropping, it does seems a little weird. Normally I'd be all over Scion of Flame and highish Int and Mig for such an effect - are, in other people's experience - high defense tanks good enough not to need it?

[Kaylon]

The alpine has 145 Acc with his breath and 155 with the prone from his tail. With WM2 items it's easier to tank him, however if you're prone and flanked he can kill you even with a graze because he has sneak attack and deathblows. SI becomes less effective against enemies with high DR and reflexes, that's why people drop INT.

[Jojobobo]

Thanks for the tips, I'll definitely pick up Bear's Fortitude now to shore up my fort for the tail attacks. Hopefully what I'm planning now should see me through the game.

[Raven Darkholme]

The alpine has 145 Acc with his breath and 155 with the prone from his tail. With WM2 items it's easier to tank him, however if you're prone and flanked he can kill you even with a graze because he has sneak attack and deathblows. SI becomes less effective against enemies with high DR and reflexes, that's why people drop INT.

Pf flanked means nothing. :D

(At least if you have my rng. )

[Jojobobo]

So related to this paladin, end game I'm going to have 14 Might and 20 Int, as I said the build is going to be quite different to the norm so I don't want to go into why those numbers are as they are (thought part of the reason is just the standard increasing damage and AoE on Sacred Immolation a bit).

 

With that in mind, would it be better to go for Envenomed Strike or Bear's Fortitude for one of my late talent slots? My at 14 Might and 20 Int Envenomed Strike does 73.9 raw damage over 13.5 secs, which is nice (and obviously will be higher as I food/prostitute buff - Maegfolc Skull already being equipped) but do people think those kind of numbers are worth the talent slot?

 

I guess in terms of my fortitude defence against the prone attacks I'll have 20 (base) + 20 (improved Faith and Conviction) + 45 (level) + 30 (Heldrik's Coat) + 8 (Maegfolc Skull) + 6 (Girdle of Eotun Constitution) + 10 (food) + 8 (Celestial Suite) + 8 (Lyrinia) + 9 (Ring of Protection) + 10 (Defiant Resolve) = 174

 

Is that "enough" against the 155 accuracy or should I really be taking Bear's Fortitude too (it's 34 chances of a miss compared to 44 with the talent)? I'll probably have Iflan Byrngar's Solice in my off hand (and something like the Orlan's Bramble Ring) in case I do get proned in the first place. I'm really on the fence as to what the better play would be.

[Raven Darkholme]

For Alpine you should take bears fort and just for that one fight forget about Int (respec) it's abswolutely useless in the firght rather more Mig and Con.

Int is awesome for most encounters just not for the dragons.^^

[Jojobobo]

I won't be respecing, out of personal preference - I intend not to for any solo build I play (it was never in the base game, the cost to do so is extremely low and does minimise the aspect of playing a role too in some respects if you can just up and change personality traits all the time).

 

In any case, I found a way to make things slightly more optimal so I shouldn't need the Bear's Fortitude after all - again it's slightly build specific so I'll keep in under wraps for now. Using console commands to look at PotD stats, it seems like Envenomed Strike is kind of a big deal even at the level I'll be having it at.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah I respect that decision I shy away from doing it too.

Envenomed Strike seems really good thought about taking it a few times.

[Jojobobo]

Well combat becomes easy if you take the +accuracy +dam talent to fit the enemy type, plus respec all your attributes for a nicer fit on your most targeted defences compared to that enemy.

 

I think respecing worked better in Skyrim, (a) because it had more cost and (b) because there wasn't an attribute system in Skyrim - so the amount of radical changes you could make to your character were fewer. I don't get why people really clamoured for hard IE game and yet also wanted an easy respec to make up for their mistakes - it doesn't make any sense.

[Kazuma]

Well I certainly don't mind being able to respec as I'm learning what works. I do agree that respeccing stats is a little strange. But then this game limits you to a single gear buff per stat and is relatively low magic setting if you will. Meaning there's no +6 Giant Strength belts, etc. If it was easier to make up for sub-optimal stat distribution with gear I'd be for freezing stats and only respecing talents/abilities. It's also a shame they choose to stick to stat checks in dialog rather than having skill checks (and more skills). I guess that is somewhat accomplished with dispositions though. Admittedly there were a few must have skills and a lot of junk ones in those Wotc (or TSR before them) games.

 

Imo, Skyrim was too streamlined.

 

I like being able to customize my characters as much as possible.

 

Anyway from what I've read here I don't think I'll be taking a dragon on solo.

[Jojobobo]

Though there aren't any items that give you +6 in a stat, there are +4 items and when you combine that with prostitute bonuses and resting bonuses you're looking at +9 to any stat (more with food) - which is quite a lot. There also are some skill dialog checks, they're just a bit thin of the ground. Instead of just respecing when I first start and don't have as good a grasp on the mechanics, I'd rather just restart - respecing is a bit much an easy button for my liking and takes a lot of consequence out of picking advantages for your character (which is why I think the Fallout 4 system sucks - literally level up high enough and you can have every perk, no need to roleplay or choose wisely at all).

 

I do understand that Skyrim can be streamlined, but to me that streamlining suited the high fantasy adventure romp you have in the game. Pillars is altogether darker in tone, and so I think a more punishing "adult" attribute system suits the game to a greater extent rather than one that lets you off lightly by letting you respec all the time. I do appreciate that it's in a gaming company's best interest to make a game as broad as possible however, so respecing is good for people who want an easier experience, though it should be considered just an option for the rest.

 

In regards to tanking the dragon, it's much easier to kite with Persistence from what I've seen, so don't be put off the idea of soloing it entirely

[Kazuma]

Fair point on the rest bonuses. I've not really needed them (haven't done any dragons or such). Well Fallout 4 is just proof of bethesda dumbing down their games even more. One of many reasons why I refuse to buy FO4 until it's the GOTY edition with all the DLC for 10 bucks on steam (exaggeration, I know). Btw, I really enjoyed FO:NV.

 

I've put a fair number of hours into Skyrim but never bothered finishing the story. I modded it like crazy because I really didn't like the base game much. I don't think PoE is that punishing. It does have a learning curve. You see repeating the game as a difficulty curve and I see it as having to repeat the story. Something I don't really want to do for a minor adjustment to my stats. Personal preferences and all.

 

Speaking of learning curves I wish bestiary was unlocked for the game overall rather than by save/run. I understand they attached the xp rewards for killing mobs to filling out the bestiary but seems a bit silly to have to do so each game. That said it's common for this to be the case. I just have a bad memory and went to look for the DR of something on this playthru I realized I hadn't killed enough of them this run. They could have had books that fill out the bestiary like the witcher too. Shrug. It's then I remembered I had a great many of the DR's of mobs recorded in a spreadsheet I was using to try to figure out the best weapon type to shoot for in the past.

 

Well, I'll try solo but It's optional for me.

[Jojobobo]

Speaking of learning curves I wish bestiary was unlocked for the game overall rather than by save/run. I understand they attached the xp rewards for killing mobs to filling out the bestiary but seems a bit silly to have to do so each game. That said it's common for this to be the case. I just have a bad memory and went to look for the DR of something on this playthru I realized I hadn't killed enough of them this run. They could have had books that fill out the bestiary like the witcher too. Shrug. It's then I remembered I had a great many of the DR's of mobs recorded in a spreadsheet I was using to try to figure out the best weapon type to shoot for in the past.

You can use to console to unlock all entries, if you want to keep your main character free of cheating just do it on a level one character and use it for reference. I would normally just refer to the wiki in these instances, but it's not fleshed out enough by half. Gamebanshee does have a bestiary, but there's no PotD adjusted stats.

[Kazuma]

Oh, yeah I hadn't even thought about PotD stats being different. Otherwise I could have used the saves from my Act 3 hard run from a year ago. Well maybe after I'm done with this playthru I'll update my spreadsheet for PotD and post it here.

 

Well, when I do finally try the dragons solo at least I won't have to worry about people spawning the whelps. But more dots!