Party w/good synergy and/or Up-to-date info

[Kazuma]

Class: Chanter (revised Chillfog)

Race: Pale Elf

Bg: Living Lands / Colonist

Stats: MIG: 19 CON: 10 DEX: 4 PER: 10 INT: 18 RES: 17

Skills: Athletics 5, Lore 8, Survival 12

 

Talents    
L2    Weapon and Shield Style
L4    Ancient Memory
L6    Beloved Spirits
L8    Veteran's Recovery
L10    Secrets of Rime
L12    Bear's Fortitude
L14    Cautious Attack Superior Deflection
L16    Wound Binding
    
Phrases    
L1    Quickest of his Tribe (+Reflex/+Move), Soft Winds of Death (Foe End)
L3    Hearts Grew Bold (+10 Fort/Will)
L5    Harbingers Doom (Fear Foe)
L7    Power of the Saint (Def vs Fear)
L9    Seven Men (+Prone/+DR Freeze/Shock)
L11    The Dragon Thrashed (Foe Slash/Burn)
L13    Old Siec Sated (Drain)
L15    Mercy and Kindness (100% Healing)
    
Invocations    
L1    Thunder Rolled (Crush/Stun)
L2    White Worms (Let the bodies hit the floor)
L4    Crashed Shield (DR-)
L6    Froze Stiff (Paralyze)
L8    The Lover (Charm)
L10    Seven Nights (Freeze)
L12    Gernisc's Beast (Summon Drake)
L14    So Singt (Freeze+4 Targets)
L16    Called to his Bidding (3 Summons)

Edited July 14, 2016 by Kazuma

[KDubya]

The Boreal Dwarf bonus works against some of the most common enemies you encounter. Its good for skuldr, ogres, xaurips, fish guys, mushrooms, tree druid things, swamp hulk things and a few more. Lots of the challenging fights you encounter involve these types of enemies and a +15 accuracy is huge. It is especially helpful early game before you have gear and buffs.

 

They are my default choice for a race for pretty much any class. I go with island Aumaua when I need another weapon switch.

[Kazuma]

Yeah, I changed around the races a bit. Made the monk Boreal as suggested and when I realized bittercut has a poison debuff on it I switched my bleak walker to a mountain dwarf. Now I'll be break even on Poison DR if I end up doing 2 x bittercut.

Still don't really know what I'm doing gear wise. Followed suggestions where I could but I'll just make it up as I go along. I'd post my table of gear but it wouldn't format right and I'd end up with a really long post instead. /shrug.

[baldurs_gate_2]

@Baldurs_gate_2 - "If you want the game as difficult as possible, make broad generalizations without any supporting evidence, really dangerous."

 

*Fixed*

Relentless Storm is the best spell in the game. It stuns every enemy and stun does -30 DEF, -30 Reflex -4 PER / INT / DEX and allows sneak attack. Only unconcious, petrified and paralyzed are better and can be used as wizard, but petr. is single target, so RS is better and i don't know how good "call to slumber" works. At least you have a chanter for paralyze and stun, but he has to cast 3 - 4 phrases until he can use that, so the druids relentless storm is again the better option.

[Boeroer]

Defensive Mindweb is the best spell in the game, it turns every party member into a tank.

 

Amplified Wave is the best spell in the game, it causes prone on every enemy in a big AoE and does a lot of damage at the same time.

 

White Worms is the best spell in the game, it can be used to one-shot whole groups of enemies.

 

The Dragon Thrashed is the best ability in the game. It damages all foes in a huge AoE for a ton of damage every 4 seconds just by standing around and it uses zero resources - unlimited per encounter, unlimited per rest, no wounds or focus needed. You even get phrase points for invocations and and it works while you are withdrawn.

 

Blast is the best talent in the game, it works with on-hit and on-crit effects like carnage, but from range. It works with Envenomed Strike so it does it's huge raw damage in an AoE, it has 10 DR bypass and interrupts. And with Kalakoth's Minor Blights you will have a wizard's baby Heart of Fury. Which makes Kalakoth's Minor Blights the best spell in the game by the way.

 

Cleansing Flame is the best spell in the game, because you can kill Thaos easily with it.

 

Holy Radiance is the best ability in the game - it can one-shot most vessels in a huge AoE while stack-buffing group's ACC and healing.

 

Rot Skulls is the best spell in the game. Because it's AoE works with Envenomed Strike and all those DoT effects stack, making it the perfect DPS spell which melts whole groups of bounties in no time.

 

Withdraw is the best spell in the game - because you can use it on a chanter who will still chant - while it stuns him which will trigger stacked preservation so that he gets +100 to all defenses. Useless you say because he is withdrawn anyway. Until you cast Defensive Mindweb and make your whole party invulnerable for nearly a minute. Which again makes Defensive Mindweb the best spell.

 

Chillfog is the best spell because you can have it from level one and it's damage stacks while it blinds. It works with Combusting wounds. Which makes Wall of Flames the best spell when I think about it because you can melt a dragon with it when you combine it with combusting wounds.

 

Fireballs is the best spell because it's fast and does lots of damage and you can pile up 18 uses per rest as a wizard which makes it the ultimate win button for every encounter without fire immune enemies.

 

Whisper of Treason... I could go on all day...

 

Sure, Relentless Storm is very strong, but it also has drawbacks. You can't have it per encounter, it takes hours to cast, it's centered on the caster. It doesn't last that long (not long enough on PoTD some might say).

There's a lot of "best" things in the game when you ask different people and it also depends on the encounter and party composition. You don't gimp yourself without a druid and also not without a priest. It's not helpful to state such things as if they were the ultimate truth. I can remember when you asked your first questions in this forum some weeks ago and didn't know a lot about the game - which is totally cool. Most people really like to help newcomers out in this place. But would you have appreciated an answer like "Lol - don't play your dream party unless you want the game to be superdifficult" back then?

 

As I said - it's not helpful in the best case and frustrating, confusing and demotivating in the worst case. And I mean no offense by this. I just want to point out that another approach might be better.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Boeroer

[Kazuma]

Sooo... somewhere along the line I got it in my head that Pallegina was a Darcozzi. Oops, my bad. Guess I'm sticking with a custom on that one too. Don't want to bother working out another build. Race becomes more important since I'm not replacing the custom toon.

 

@Baldurs_gate_2 - To each their own. I didn't have a druid or a cleric in my last playthru and it wasn't super difficult.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Kazuma

[Boeroer]

I think her order related talents are great. If you play her like the "Missile General" she can deal great burst damage and alpha strikes with FoD+guns and Wrath of the Five Suns. It also works with Penetrating Shot which means it has 15 DR bypass. And it works with Scion of Flame which you might take anyways because of FoD and Immolation. I played her like a mixture of Engineer and Observer some time ago, with Pen. Shot, Arms Bearer, Coil of Resourcefulness for quick switching, Cloak of magic missiles and Prestidigitators Missiles. For that I also got Ryona's Vembraces for max DR bypass and used Blunderbusses for the shots then. Then switched to Shame & Glory (with Coordinated Attacks) + Outworn Buckler after the alpha strike phase in order to tank and immolate the rest. I was very pleased with her performance. Also note that Wrath directly profits from Sworn Enemy - as well as all the following shots and missiles and whatnot that hit that enemy. Usually her 4 to 5 alpha strikes meant at least two casters or priests less on the enemies' side.

 

I can imagine she works great with the Engineer so that they take out the most dangerous enemies at every start of the fight before melee really starts.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Boeroer

[Clerith]

Speaking about best spells in the game, imo it's Ninagauth's Shadowflame and Gaze of the Adragan. 

 

Shadowflame is just amazing. It's Fireball on steroids. Same good aoe, same fast cast speed, higher damage, and the amazing long paralyze effect. And it becomes per encounter in the end. The amount of mobs and bosses I nuked and perma cc'd with this is ridiculous. At least for the playthrough that I finished yesterday, this was my main dish. Shame about the freeze immune enemies in White March though. And then there's Adragan - even after the nerfs, petrify is still the supreme disable. Works against almost everything, completely shuts them down and makes them shatter like glass. I accidentally killed Thaos after I petrified him yesterday, I was supposed to just cc him but he died in a few seconds.

 

Well, everything Boeroer said is true, I just wanted to praise Shadowflame some.

[Boeroer]

See?

 

It is great. For me some combinations of individually "normal" things also make great abilities: like combining Chillfog, Pull of Eora and Blast + Minor Blights or Fireballs or Shadowflame. Pull of Eora is one of the best spells in the game for me.

[Kazuma]

@Boeroer - Yah, I might have to try that. I've realized one problem with having 5 melee in a party - there's 5 melee in the party and hit boxes/pathing can make choke points even when you don't want them. Not that big of deal in the end but it would be nice to have someone ranged to pull. Just something I had forgotten about.

[Clerith]

Three melee is the max, imo. Even then, characters sometimes get stuck running futilely trying to reach the enemy and you have to micro them some. Two melee and a third with reach weapon is pretty much my limit.

[Boeroer]

If the melee guys are also sturdy you can just spread out and swarm the squishies like the enemies like to do it. But in tight spaes with doorways it can be a bit of a problem, that's true. Flaggellanth's Path and things like escape can help here, as well as Coordinated Positioning and Dimensional Shift. Reach weapons also help a lot. Another reason to use Tall Grass.

 

If you want more ranged but still play a monk you an check out the Witch Doctor build. It needs wounds in order to work, but you can also shoot him in the back and the nstart with his flying fists of awesomeness.

 

Pallegina can be played as a ranged Fire General Observer (leave away the Outworn Bucker part and skill towards ranged combat only). She can use the marking pistol St. Garam's Spark (you get it after you finished the Heritage Hill quest) with Coordinated Positioning Atttacks from the back row. Sacred Immolation will still work because it not only will damage one or two foes in front of your frontline but also heal your party members. And it's also good to destroy any swarmers who want to reach the backline.

 

edit: corrected the mistake with Coordinated Positioning/Attack when speaking about Pallegina.

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Boeroer

[Kazuma]

Good advice as usual

 

Besides the weapon issue it's mainly being low level that is the problem. Not far enough along in the builds to have Flaggellanth's Path for example. And it's not like I had a problem with the few fights I was in. It just didn't feel optimal because I had one or two chars twiddling their thumbs.

 

I do have escape in my rogue build so repositioning to the back front should be possible in tight spaces. Though there is something to be said about blowing an oh-****-button for that (well I guess the oh-**** buff was added this patch). I don't have Coordinated Positioning but at 2 uses per encounter that's starting to sound good even without this problem as you can use it on mobs too. At first glance I'm thinking I'll swap out Adept Evasion for Coo-Pos. Adept Evasion sounds nice but it's reflex saves only, but it was also buffed this patch. Hmmm.. decisions.

 

Dimensional shift seems unlikely for me to leverage as I don't have a wizard and all the items I found that grant it are low use per rest. Perhaps I'm missing something?

 

Wait, a Paladin can take a rogue ability? Or did you just mean swapping her out of the way with my rogue if she got stuck in the front? Oh, wait.. you meant Coordinated Attacks from the back row. Gotcha. Iirc Heritage Hill is in defiance bay? The zone with the Tower? Hmmm.. well since there's no penalty for attacking in melee range with a ranged weapon I suppose there's nothing stopping me from having her sit right behind the person I want to give the Acc buff. Might actually be easier to control that way than side by side. Yeah, losing the shield kinda sucks but the options are better with the pistol... I think. Too bad these are flintlocks. Pistol and shield, like riot police.

 

Or maybe it's enough to just give my rogue more mobility and give the chanter a reach weapon. Not that he's going to do much with it. Wait, why am I thinking my chanter needs to do something? Chants and invocations are plenty even if he can't get in melee range. I must be half asleep still.

 

So, One Monk, two pally's that need to be melee to be optimal, one chanter chilling behind them, and a rogue that can blink in or out as needed. Just have to tough it out a few levels and I'll have those options. The solution for the non-problem

Edited July 15, 2016 by Kazuma

[mosspit]

On paper, too many melee or even an all-melee party will create problems like bottlenecking. In practice, it is not that bad. This is because the game more or less already caters for large fights, especially on the higher difficulties which basically involves increasing the number of mobs in encounters. Of course, it isn't perfect and bottlenecks do happen. But you will find that majority of the fights are fine, or can be led into more spacious areas.

 

I personally like melee parties a lot with my last 2 playthroughs having 5 melee and 6 melee respectively. Currently I am doing a full melee party playthrough as well. Just be mindful of positioning and bring reach weapons. Full melee does expose the pathing issues though lol.

 

PS: I like melee not because it is more effective or anything. I just enjoy melee combat more than ranged.

[Kazuma]

I'm basically the opposite (at least in the past). Typically I focus on ranged classes, especially when it comes to single character games. But lately I've been trying my hand at melee toons. That said on the occasion I get suckered into playing another mmo (have a love/hate, mostly hate, relationship with them) I still stick with ranged classes as the trend seems to be on huge arenas with lots of telegraphs and other gimmicks to avoid. That's when it's got to suck as melee. Start feeling like you're playing a dancing game. Avoid-Avoid-Avoid-jump-self-buff-rotation-jump-avoid-rotation-colapse-on-group-to-avoid-instagibing... or something like that.

 

I still find it out that PoE ranged classes don't get debuffs for attacking in melee range. That's such an ingrained mechanic. Well, if they aren't built tanky there is still a reason to get out of range but that's another thing altogether. In which case kiting is probably thing to do.

[Boeroer]

Eh, sorry - I meant Coordinated Attacks, not Positioning when I talked about Pellegina.

[Kazuma]

@Boeroer - lol no prob that was what I figured. I just thought I had missed some sort of cross-class mechanic for a second.

 

Having played a little with this party I've decided to change tactics a bit. There are a few things that didn't work as well as I imagined -

1) Rushing to make a Custom party. There's still a 1-2 level gap early on and spreading the xp across 5-6 characters not getting the xp bonus slows down progress.

2) Tanky builds. Are in fact pretty squishy at low levels as they don't have their full toolset and I imagine they need levels to start to shine.

3) Mobility. I didn't put enough emphasis into this and because a full party is slow to start it became an issue with some encounters I found I couldn't take all at once. i.e. the blacksmith bandits. My poor rogue was used as a sacrifice to split them. *edit* I realized afterward I could have cheesed them into the trolls with my chanter.

 

So I figure I'll do the following -

1) Use the official companions like most were suggesting. ahem, should have listened. The fact that they'll scale to my level means I can go solo for as long as I can to drive up my levels quicker. Though I realize it's possible to solo the entire game it's not really my goal to.

2) Change my MC's build. I'll start with a solo minded build. My MC's a paladin already so it won't be much of a change. Just less DPS+more tank. Keeping Survival low so I can bump mechanics kinda sucks but it's not a huge deal. Picking up Zealous charge for the mobility/splitting as well.

 

There's a few other things I'll need to tweak. Obviously the devil won't need mechanics. Pallegina's build will have to be adjusted a bit. I'm thinking of running a barb as that was the other class to get love in the patch. Live and learn. I have a feeling I'll be doing the beginning of the game a few times before I'm happy with the party. Well that and become somewhat less of a noob

Edited July 17, 2016 by Kazuma

[Boeroer]

At the beginning the official companions are much better because they have the same level.

 

Tanky builds (with not-maxed RES) for classes who start pretty squishy (because of low starting values) take some time, yes. And the others will not have so much more health and endurance.

Funnily a druid with high RES and Weapon & Shield Style is not a bad tanker (for a caster) right from the start because he starts with 20 deflection and has Sunbeam (which blinds) at lvl 1.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Boeroer

[Kazuma]

Lol, yes I guess that is the distinction to make - not maxed RES. My Chanter and Rogue had the first and second highest RES in my party. oO;

Probably why it felt like my chanter with weapon and shield could tank longer in a couple fights they were forced to...

 

At any rate my MC will have maxed RES this time around. I'll pick up Kana after a while and duo as much as I can. That's the plan at least. I know how the last one went - with me having a hard time keeping my tanks up. Ancient memory definitely a priority.

 

20 base? 5 less than Paladin iirc, but spells certainly lend some flexibility. Still Boeroer I'm beginning to think you're trying to see how many times you can get me to change my mind on classes I do that well enough my self. Kidding.

 

At any rate I started my new game. Not going to bother with updating the other builds until I get a ways in. Off to kill Calisca so I can try my hand at soloing from the get go.

[Boeroer]

Paladin also starts with 20 deflection, like rangers. Fighters 30, monks and chanters 25. The rest has 15 or even 10. When Sunbeam hits the druid has the equivalent of 40 deflection (and +20 to all tother defenses as well). Combine that with a shield and Weapon & Shield style as well as good RES and he's pretty good at tanking at the beginning of the game. It's the reason I still love tanky melee druids with shields who skip Spiritshift altogether. Of course also because they get Returning and Relentless Storm which let them "tank" like gods against mobs later on.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Boeroer

[Kazuma]

Ah, I see where I got that number from. My old build spreadsheet that I recycled has the base deflection for each class. Obviously the games been rebalanced many times since then. I forgot to update that stuff. Though I suppose it's possible I entered it wrong in the first place. They did nerf Faith and Conviction from what I was reading so it's likely the base was adjusted.

 

Ah, well so long as I can get a better start this run I don't really mind if paladin is sub-optimal for a (semi) solo potd.

 

*edit* Oops.. accidentally trained some wolves on Durance. He died and I didn't notice until a few hours later he was missing. Ah well. Only place I would have used him was the effigy and there's probably better picks.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Kazuma

[mosspit]

@Boeroer - lol no prob that was what I figured. I just thought I had missed some sort of cross-class mechanic for a second.

 

Having played a little with this party I've decided to change tactics a bit. There are a few things that didn't work as well as I imagined -

1) Rushing to make a Custom party. There's still a 1-2 level gap early on and spreading the xp across 5-6 characters not getting the xp bonus slows down progress.

2) Tanky builds. Are in fact pretty squishy at low levels as they don't have their full toolset and I imagine they need levels to start to shine.

3) Mobility. I didn't put enough emphasis into this and because a full party is slow to start it became an issue with some encounters I found I couldn't take all at once. i.e. the blacksmith bandits. My poor rogue was used as a sacrifice to split them. *edit* I realized afterward I could have cheesed them into the trolls with my chanter.

 

So I figure I'll do the following -

1) Use the official companions like most were suggesting. ahem, should have listened. The fact that they'll scale to my level means I can go solo for as long as I can to drive up my levels quicker. Though I realize it's possible to solo the entire game it's not really my goal to.

2) Change my MC's build. I'll start with a solo minded build. My MC's a paladin already so it won't be much of a change. Just less DPS+more tank. Keeping Survival low so I can bump mechanics kinda sucks but it's not a huge deal. Picking up Zealous charge for the mobility/splitting as well.

 

There's a few other things I'll need to tweak. Obviously the devil won't need mechanics. Pall..egina's build will have to be adjusted a bit. I'm thinking of running a barb as that was the other class to get love in the patch. Live and learn. I have a feeling I'll be doing the beginning of the game a few times before I'm happy with the party. Well that and become somewhat less of a noob

1. There is a way to get your custom party members with as little exp gap as possible. Follow these steps.

• Proceed on with prologue and sell all items to Heodan for currency. Including the pistol and wolf hides.
• In the ruins, proceed left before the traps > kill lone skulder > sneak past the 3 skulders > kill 2 spiderlings > kill 2 spiderlings + 1 large spider.
• At valewood, make a beeline to Glided Vale
• At Glided Vale, watch custscene and after custscene double up the slope and take the longer route to the inn. Reason is that passing by the temple ruins gives discovery exp.
• Do the scene with Aloth and enter the inn to recruit the custom companions.

Doing so you should be able to recruit companions with exp gap of a slighty more than 2200exp (iirc it's 2204exp). Then with the number of custom NPCs, finish as many quests as you can before recruiting the storyline NPCs. Reason is to take advantage of the slight exp bonus with a non-full party. Including returning to Cliant Lis to disarm all the traps and killing remaining mobs. Your custom NPCs should easily level to 2 here. Once you are satisfied, recruit the NPCs you want whose exp will be adjusted to yours.

 

Doing so, the custom NPCs will be quite close to your MC level. 2200-ish exp is typically about 2 quests worth of leveling in most cases. I know that it is also possible to lure the initial mobs away with Heodan and Calissa and letting them get killed so that you can transit the map, but it seems a bit excessive for me.

 

2. Most builds are squishy at the start, even builds that are to be made tanky. To help with this, Black Hound sells Ale and Pearlwood Chicken. The former adds 2 DR which is huge at the start, the latter adds 2 to CON. Both are quite affordable so you use them for fights you know that are tough at the start.

 

3. Mobility will be sort of limited at the start as there are very limited options. I think it is about knowing which fights you can take and which fights you will have problems. Bandits, Shrooms (Anslog Compass), Shades and Forest Lurkers can be slightly tricky at low levels (there each caused me Trial of Iron runs in the past).

Edited July 17, 2016 by mosspit

[Kazuma]

I'm doing alright solo so far. I managed to clear all but one of the bandits for the smithy quest. The last guy has some serious regen and I already got the package so I left him guarding an empty camp. I did cheese a little and got the leader fighting a troll while I took care of his lacky. Speaking of trolls... ugh.. soooo slow. I lack dps right now because I haven't taken flames of devotion yet. I don't regret it because zealous charge works wonders for kiting/splitting.

 

In my previous run I went straight to town (though I probably picked up more xp than you). This time I cleared Cliant Lis solo and did all but the wolves and bear in valewood. I've finished up the wolves but I've yet to go back for the bears. That thing scares me. Ah, 2 DR booze and more CON ftw. Though right now I think my problem is dps related. Hard for me to overwhelm anything with endurance regen.

 

Haven't tried the shrooms or the lurkers yet. Got a spellward amulet and managed to take care of the paladins+caster south of the vale. Do all Xaurip Skirmishers have paralyze on their weapons? (at least in potd) I fought one omw to the looters quest and that was pretty annoying. Starting to think I need to pick up Kana soon for the extra dps.

[mosspit]

Well, in Searing Falls and Caed Nua level 2 you can meet ranged Skirmishers. Those do not paralyze on hit. But yeah, melee Skirmishes will paralyze on hit (can be saved against though). That is why the skirmisher at Madhmr Bridge is infamous and warrants entering from alternate locations for solo runs.

 

Also note that Black Hound will only carry the Ale and Pearlwood Chicken if the chef in Valewood is saved.

[Kazuma]

Yup, he was a surprise but I managed with a little bit of luck. Ah, yeah I saved the chef. Even managed to free him solo on my last potd run using a dps build. Those bandits aren't that hard considering.

 

I've been picking up little tips watching videos while I play. i.e. got the plate from killing the backer npc right outside the temple ruins in town (cleared the top floor of that, waiting to do the next - spirits). I had just assumed they'd made killing all backer npcs a pita in someway. But it seems it's only some of them. Ymmv, save often an all that. Slowly but surely getting some halfway decent gear. Which was to blame for my dps. Now I wish I had some more Acc, but I'll manage as I start picking up enchanted stuff I think. Trying the quest A Mother's Plea before I head off to start clearing Raedric's keep. Hopefully I'll gain 1-2 levels doing so.

 

Sorry, didn't really mean to start a play by play - I'm sure this all old hat to you veterans with many playthrus. Suffice it to say the solo pally build I'm using is working. Though with the amount of kiting with a bow I'm doing I feel like a poor man's ranger in plate.