Lini questions

[Narkon27]

EDIT: Although it started as a Lini topic, it later branches to include all 4 characters from the character add-on pack,

and some experienced players have offered solid advice about all 4 characters.

--------------------

 

I got the character add-on today and I as I check all the characters, I have to admit I am a little afraid to play with Lini. She seems quite weak again villains who require multiple combat checks. Especially, if the current location forces the character to make additional checks by having her fight a monster before the villain. I want to start leveling her in quests, but I have trouble deciding on suitable partners. I considered pairing her with Kyra (I thought that if she misses a few of those recharge checks for her spells she will be crippled) and have her focus on offense, but that she relies so much on spells, which leave your hand once they are used, scares me a little. Then again, I haven't played with Seoni or Ezren yet either, so I am inexperienced with magic users. It is also quite scary she has 0 armors. One misstep and you are done for.

 

So time for the questions:

1. What 3 person team and 4 person team would you suggest (Lini included of course)? The characters I have unlocked are Merisiel, Kyra, Valersos and the 4 from the add-on pack.

 

2. Also, is there a suggested card list for her deck somewhere in the forums? Do you go all offense with her, or do you throw 1-2 Cures in there?

I have bought the 2 expansions that are available and the character add-on pack which comes with Deck C, so I think I have access to all the cards that are released right now, with the exception of the promo cards.

 

3. I saw a topic that was about Lini and the weasel. In which deck can the weasel ally be found? I checked the decks in the pathfinder site and I don't think it is in Deck C. I definitely haven't found this ally in quest mode so far or even in campaign mode and I have played quite a lot in both modes.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Narkon27

[delpheki]

I suggest maxing out her pet reveal power first.  After 2 power feats she has a 1d4+2 to every check, add that to her divine skill (which is where I put my first 2 skill feats) and she auto-recharges holy lights and cures with no problem.  Apply that same 1d4+2 to checks to acquire boons and pass barrier checks and I have an easier time soloing with her than anyone else.  She does start out a little weak but stick with it.  Get her a weapon card feat and find her a light xbow +1 and she can manage just fine.

[Narkon27]

@delpheki: Thanks for the suggestion. Looks solid. I missed that her Animal Trick ability works on any check and not just combat. This makes it a lot better and worth the investment. Any ideas about decent team composition?

Edited May 23, 2016 by Narkon27

[Jehren]

Lini has turned into one of my favorite characters.  Her animal companion trick that can add to any check is just wonderful.  I find armor to be just deck filler, but if you are worried you can get her an Amulet of Life item.  3 damage reduction and easily rechargable. 

 

1) In Story mode, I had a 3-person team of Valeros, Lem and Lini.  They stuck together and destroyed maps location by location with no problem.  I really liked how Valeros helped with Lini's survivability, so when I moved to Quest mode I still had them stick together, assisted by Ezren and Merisiel who each went off doing their own separate locations.  If I had to start over, I might replace Merisiel with Sajan or Harsk but overall I've been happy.

 

2) I started her out as pure support.  This was probably a mistake.  Sticking side by side with Valeros + an animal companion + an Amulet of Might Fists will let her power through most anything, and Inflict (or better, Holy light) takes care of the rest.  A cure or two never hurts though.  Caltrops and Holy Water can also be used to evade or win some fights (usually depending on your wildcards).  I have her at lvl 28, so obviously some of these cards are going to be unavailable to you starting out, but my current deck is:

• Fox
• Giant Weasel
• Saber-Toothed Tiger
• Toad
• Blessing of Gorum x2
• Blessing of Shelyn x2
• Amulet of Life
• Amulet of Mighty Fists
• Aid
• Cure
• Augury
• Find Traps
• Holy Light x2
• Inflict

3) The Giant Weasel is a base-set uncommon you have to unlock through chests.  Honestly, what animal companion you use is kinda irrelevant, but yeah, the weasel and tiger and toad are all nice to have around.

[Brainwave]

Amulet of the mighty fists works well with her base stuff and additionally gives her the ability to do magic damage.

 

Pairing with anyone that can give a combat bonus -Valeros at same location, or Harsk from another location - is always good. Lem can also give a bonus to any check at his same location.

 

But the trick with her early on is to pair her at the same location as anyone who carries extra non proficiency type weapons (I actually prefer strength weapons like the mace) and have that person give her a weapon. Once she has a weapon in hand she's usually fine.

 

With a mace for example she's rolling - d8+d10+d4 on all combat checks by just discarding a card to increase her strength die, which isn't completely terrible especially since she carries cures to get those discards back. (She could also discard the mace for an additional die in emergencies). Once she adds a couple points to her power, etc, she's pretty good.

[Rhygar]

You are right in identifying the core flaw in Lini prior to card role opening up her hand size so any drawn out battles before she can reset her cards will cause her severe problems. In my opinion in the early stage before she gets a specialized card role, it's best to hand her a weapon either from a companion or from giving her a weapon slot from her very first card feat.

 

1)I don't have much input here I tend to want to make Lini and my toons self sufficient in combat. I'd tried Lini with Amiri and it works well because Amiri can carry many weapon with her and if a suitable ranged weapon comes up in her hand she can easily move to Lini at end of turn, and pass her the weapon card at start of her next turn before moving back to her initial location. Handy team work.

 

2) load her up with as many attack divine spell as you can spare in your party. So that way before she draws out her weapon or find one, she needed go through her entire hand in combat . Yes she might often have to use her ability beast form to make the combat check in lieu of a weapon or spell and that really burn through her hand size. I keep 2 cures on her in the event I need to discard one early before she draws a weapon or for the cards she will discard due to necessity of beast form described above . Once you have a weapon slot on her, one of the best weapon you can have for her is the deathbane crossbow which you have access to. Helps a lot especially with extra die for the times when you run into undead hordes and also playing to her natural 1d6 dex so she could make combat checks without using the card burning beast form each time. For item have a protection item like amulet of life. But bare in mind with a weapon , an animal always and that ammy, she has 3/5 hand size occupied leaving little room to refresh her hand. When suitable I'd always leave her with just the weapon and the animal prior to reset.

 

3) weasel is found in deck B as a treasure card, buy a couple chest and you can have it

[Narkon27]

@Jehren: Thanks for the Ultimate Lini Guide.

 

I think I'll start questing now with a team of Valeros, Lini, Sajan and one other so I can replenish the coffers in anticipation of the next campaign release,

but if it takes to long, I will probably unlock either Seoni or Ezren.

[Kgk4569]

OP: You are SERIOUSLY under estimating Lini, she is a little powerhouse. You want a good 4 man team? Lini, Sajan, Valeros, and Merisel.

 

Armor: Don't worry, Start her off with an Amulet of Life or two for her starting deck and she has better armor stats than most characters.

 

My starting card List:

SPELLS (6): 3x Cure, 2x Inflict, 1x Detect Magic

 

ITEMS (2): 2x Amulet of Life

 

ALLIES (3): 3x Crows

 

BLESSINGS (4): 4x Blessings of the Gods

 

With her Animal Trick ability and a high wisdom Lini can recharge almost anything, so she doesn't need heals as often, her cures can be used on the other characters. The Amulet of Life can soak damage and then recharge, which makes it awesome. The crows will help you gain boons for her and other characters.

 

Spending Upgrades:

Skill Points:

Wisdom until full, then Dex (for bows), then Str

 

Power points:

Animal Trick till full (gives you an average of +4 to ANY CHECK!), then Weapons.

 

Card Feats:

Weapons +1, then whatever you want, I usually go spells.

 

Cards to look for and acquire: Aid (AV B) (and Improved Aid (AV 2)), Augery (AV B), Holy Light (AV B), Saber-tooth Tiger (AV C), Blessings of Lashamatu

Cards to look for once you get weapons in your deck: Mace (AV B) (or better Flaming Mace (AV B)), then Giant Weasels (AV B), Blessings of Gorim (AV B)

--OR Heavy Crossbow (AV B) (or Deathbane Crossbow +1 (AV B) if you don't mind being a bit weaker to be able to CRUSH undead), Blessings of Erastil

 

Once you get some Medallions from Loot you can swap them for the Amulets and she will be epic.

 

Once you have weapons AND Animal Trick levelled you can crush almost everything, and spell anything you can't.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Kgk4569

[delpheki]

I think Lini Lem Sajan would be a fun team especially once they fix Sajan's ability and Lem gets Virtuoso.  All 3 are able to add extra dice to any check, all 3 roll with their own cures and among the 3 you have a pretty broad range of useful skill checks.  

[Narkon27]

@ Brainwave + Rhygar: Thanks a lot for the great suggestions. I never considered passing her a weapon with Vaeleros or Amiri as an option so thanks for that. The only problem I see with this strategy is that all the weapons Valeros has right now are not noob friendly. I've been after the +1 weapons because of the Magic trait, so he will have to go weapon hunting (probably 2 maces).

 

Do you know at which level the Flaming Mace becomes available? I have it on Kyra in story mode and I love it, but nothing so far in quests (level 15).

[Narkon27]

@ Kgk4569: I just made that exact team. And how convenient that one of the more experienced members already had an Amulet of Life.

Do you pair Lini with Valeros, as was suggested by guys before you, at least early on?

[Kgk4569]

@ Brainwave + Rhygar: Thanks a lot for the great suggestions. I never considered passing her a weapon with Vaeleros or Amiri as an option so thanks for that. The only problem I see with this strategy is that all the weapons Valeros has right now are not noob friendly. I've been after the +1 weapons because of the Magic trait, so he will have to go weapon hunting (probably 2 maces).

 

Do you know at which level the Flaming Mace becomes available? I have it on Kyra in story mode and I love it, but nothing so far in quests (level 15).

 

Start her off with Miri and pass her an extra Crossbow. Starting off Dex is her best offensive trait.

 

You really don't need to worry about passing her a weapon at all, especially with a 4 man team of Lini, Valeros, Sajan, and Merisel. Have Lini and Valeros start at one Location, and Meri and Sajan take another two by their lonesome. Valeros supports Lini in combat, and Sajan can supply blessing support for everyone if needed, while Meri just does her loner awesomeness. Then after about 8 turns Lini travels around and heals people.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Kgk4569

[delpheki]

I do not.  I can't stand Valeros's hand size.  Like Rehgar, I typically make teams of people that can solo their location so I shy away from characters with powers that are specific to another ally or at the same location.  Something to be mindful of is the more characters you have in your team the more cards in location decks you have to get through so exploring multiple times in a turn and recycling your deck becomes the most important thing.  

[delpheki]

My apologies when I aid Sajan I meant Seelah. Seelah lini and lem

[Rhygar]

@ Brainwave + Rhygar: Thanks a lot for the great suggestions. I never considered passing her a weapon with Vaeleros or Amiri as an option so thanks for that. The only problem I see with this strategy is that all the weapons Valeros has right now are not noob friendly. I've been after the +1 weapons because of the Magic trait, so he will have to go weapon hunting (probably 2 maces).

 

Do you know at which level the Flaming Mace becomes available? I have it on Kyra in story mode and I love it, but nothing so far in quests (level 15).

I don't use the flaming mace in my quest mode game, so I can't reference it accurately . But I think it should be at most part of a "deck 1" card and so you will likely be able to access it by lv 20. For now if you already have the weapon card slot on her , give her a ranged weapon that doesn't penalize for lack of proficiency and she should do fine.

[Longshot11]

 

Start her off with Miri and pass her an extra Crossbow. Starting off Dex is her best offensive trait.

This is problematic, considering Merisiel is not guaranteed to start with even with a weapon of her own.

 

My recommendations: get Lini the Deathbane Crossbow +1, put her two first Skills into Dexterity. This will make her a reliable fighter and will free up spell slots for support. Also, get her an Armor slot and give her the Snakeskin Tunic (Loot in AD 2-5) - in a bigger group, she's unlikely to need to take more than 1 mass damage, and all the while she'll be getting +1 to all her Dexterity checks (ranged combat), while you'll be able able to exchange the Amulets for more useful items.

 

The above build is quite different from what I'd recommend if you were playing her solo, but in bigger groups you can pick your fights (not going into the Monster x 6 Catacombs of Wrath when you don't have weapon/ combat spells for example), while making sure you can boost anyone's rolls, anywhere, at any time, becomes a much bigger priority.

[Kgk4569]

 

@ Brainwave + Rhygar: Thanks a lot for the great suggestions. I never considered passing her a weapon with Vaeleros or Amiri as an option so thanks for that. The only problem I see with this strategy is that all the weapons Valeros has right now are not noob friendly. I've been after the +1 weapons because of the Magic trait, so he will have to go weapon hunting (probably 2 maces).

 

Do you know at which level the Flaming Mace becomes available? I have it on Kyra in story mode and I love it, but nothing so far in quests (level 15).

I don't use the flaming mace in my quest mode game, so I can't reference it accurately . But I think it should be at most part of a "deck 1" card and so you will likely be able to access it by lv 20. For now if you already have the weapon card slot on her , give her a ranged weapon that doesn't penalize for lack of proficiency and she should do fine.

 

 

 

Adventure B

[delpheki]

I think pumping up wisdom by 1-2 before going dex makes a bigger difference.  Typically combat rolls have several dice and the difference of +1 rarely makes or breaks it where as recharge checks with fewer dice are often won/lost by 1-2. 

[Narkon27]

I played 4-5 quests with a Valeros, Miri, Lini, Sajan team so here are my impressions.

 

Lini is a fun character to play with and she seems to be doing okay in combat and ally acquisition. The only problem I notice is that she is missing quite often her spell recharge checks, even with +1 to animal trick and a +1 to wisdom, and if this happens on the Cure check, things can become complicated for the team. Oh, and remembering to use her animal trick in every check is... tricky. Pun intended.

 

The hero I don't like at all is Sajan. I checked his powers and I noticed his Unarmed Strike does not receive +X as it gains levels. This pretty much killed any chance he had to be on any of my teams. He is extremely slow in exploring because if I burn all the blessing to explore, he becomes useless in combat. If he had a starting hand size of 5, I would consider using him more, but for now he is going to take a long break. In fact, the only time I though he was contributing to the team is when he got a crossbow. Too bad he had to give it away after the team won.

 

I played a couple of games with Amiri as well and I have to admit I was not impressed. She seems worse than Valeros in every way. Is there any point to her Move Fast ability? As for her Barbarian Rage, I really hate burying cards. Valeros, with his weapon recharge never seems to have trouble taking down the enemies and he almost never runs out of steam.

 

 

I also experienced a weird bug with Sajan. In the third game he died so he was absent in the "level up" screen. Lini who started at the same time as Sajan was level 4 or 5 after that quest and received her first power upgrage. Then on the screen where I choose the members of the team Sajan had a skull next to his portrait and I could not select him on my team for the next quest. Starting a quest without him or going back to the main game screen did not fix the problem. So I decided to delete the character and take a new (level 1) Sajan. After the team won, I noticed he was exactly the same level as Lini (level 7) but he was missing the power upgrade. I don't like him much anyway, but it is frustrating to see the game is a huge mess right now.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Narkon27

[Brainwave]

The way I do it is to alternate strength and wisdom points. There's definitely an argument for wisdom but I prefer strength over dex because while your base dex die is slightly better, you're only ever going to have one weapon in your deck. So there's going to be some games in which you don't see it for several turns - at least then you can make use of your strength bonus with or without the weapon. Dex, on the other hand, is useless for combat until you get the weapon that allows you to use it.

 

In addition I find there's the easy monsters (diff 8-9) in which her base d4+d4+d8+2 (once you have a couple feats) is probably good enough if you went strength.

 

There might be a few middling guys in which having one of those d4s become a d6 makes a difference but for anything reasonably difficult, you're going to want to boost her stat to a d10 anyway, so whether the base was a d4 or d6 doesn't really matter.

 

Also I really like the Icy Longspear +1 for her as it gives her a weapon that is good for someone who might be making somewhat iffy rolls. If she makes the roll, great, it stays in her hand for the next monster. But if she doesn't quite make it, she gets the reroll option.

[Brainwave]

Amiris move ability will become more useful as we get farther into the adventures and run into more locations that do bad stuff to you at the beginning of turn. But that said, I never played her much either. Having to bury for a base ability seemed like a high cost to me - I mean what you get out of it is good, but if you're having to bury a card to do it, that means that you can't really afford to do it very often meaning most combats you cant give yourself any extra bonus beyond skill and weapon dice, which is tough for a clearly combat oriented character. I mean I'm sure you can make that work, Harsk manages his own combats without an inherent power to help himself, but the combat power he does have to help others seems vastly superior.

[Rhygar]

@narkon Amiri I didn't played her all the way in quest mode but enough for me to slightly prefer her over valeros. Her monstrous strength die and with focused skill points into strength means with a good weapon she doesn't really need to throw them in combat unless it's a dire situation. And even when that happens , that's when her rage comes in. I usually do not rage her more than 5 times I think and she has that many weapon to spare to rage with just get a nice 2 handed weapon for Amiri that has a reroll property in case your dice rolls funny. She should be good to go vs most monsters.

Valeros can throw weapon all day for sure, but this game is really , for the most part, about beating the minimum check not about highest max output. The other thing about rage which makes Amiri more versatile on her rampaging own is it makes non combat check easier on strength and constitution , not many but when there is, you appreciate the option to bury that extra weapon you just got back there.

 

Her move ability allows her the ability to move to location ( adjacent ones if you play in legendary ) , pass stuff or receive stuff or get healed , and move back to her initial location without missing a turn. Watching the turn count gets more critical the larger party you adventure in

[Longshot11]

Believe me, when I first played Amiri, I was also 'meh, I can move at end of turn, so big deal', but I took it because it seemed to offer was *some* tactical advantage, as oppose to unnecessary +1 to an old power. And then, this power *changed my life!*

Dramatics aside, you need to take it to start realizing all the possibilities it grants you. Only a few examples:

- you move out of a nasty 'start of turn' location (Mountain Peak), and you just get back there on your next move

- you move other heroes out of nasty locations (I used it to pull my assigned hero from Habe's Sanatorium to evade the nasty Wisdom check at start of turn)

- you rearrange heroes so they can use their 'Give Card' phase efficiently

- you move characters to closed locations off-turn to minimize "horde" barriers impact

- you optimize party positioning for scouted Villains with "if you're the only character/if there are multiple characters at this location" powers; the same goes for support like Valeros/Lem/Harsk

- after you close location, go to another open location that is not being covered for temp close (and/or pull another character who is skilled in temp closing it)

- position tactically heroes with "start of turn" abilities (Seelah; also Lem - his SoT power is not location dependent, but might be important in concert with his Give Card phase)

- you go to Shadow Clock to prevent the scenario's power

- you move to benefitial 'start of turn' locations (Throne Room, Swallowtail Festival)

...

There's probably many more, but generally, Amiri turns from a 'Hulk Smash' barbarian into the best tactician your party'll ever have, always making sure you got the right heroes at the right places, or pulling them out from harm's way.  I've played dozens of games with all characters, and for me, Amiri's move power is the single most versatile power in RotR that let's you pull cool combos and feel like the best arm-chair general ever.

 

Oh, and I'm guessing you're not playing Legendary difficulty, 'cause otherwise you wouldn't even be asking the question.

[Irgy]

Here's another good one I've just realised:

Player B picks up some rubbish card that's so bad they'd rather just voluntarily discard it to stop it clogging up their hand (and boy does this happen a lot), but instead they keep if for just one turn.

Amiri moves at end of turn to Player B's location

Player B gives the card to Amiri

On Amiri's next turn, she buries it for +d10

 

I would argue that with any decent sized party you would be able to do this every turn, and suddenly Amiri basically just has +d10 all the time..

Edited May 23, 2016 by Irgy

[Kgk4569]

I can't believe you didn't like Sajan! He can burn through blessings to explore. Once you get staffs of healing, Poog, and Father Zantos, this isn't much of a problem! Plus if you have a good healer (Lini) it doesn't matter much.

 

Additionally once your deck is smaller, you get better cards faster, like the blessing that gives you 2 dice for dex combat. I've dropped 3 of those on a check just for fun. KABAM!!