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Do Druids storm spells need to get nerfed?


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I just finished my latest play through on POTD. At the start of every encounter the first thing I did was activate relentless storm with my druid.

 

The difference in encounter difficulty when you don't do this is substantial, that's an understatement the storm spells tip the balance in your favour dramatically.

 

Every fight was literally start battle, relentless storm, you win.

 

I honestly would prefer this spell got nerfed so I didn't have the temptation of using it and concentrated more on changing my battle tactics to suit different encounters.

 

It is just to tempting not to use it.

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Storm spells are the unique card druids have in their decks. If they got nerfed, all druid spells would need to get upgraded to keep things balanced.

 

Honnestly, it's too close from the closure of PoE balancing. I would not support this request, even if I don't disagree entirely.

 

Furthermore, Relentless Storm might be the most convenient spell to steamroll easy to middle encounters, but it's not even the most useful spell of the game : Devotion for the Faithful is.

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Devotion of the faithful is ok early but it gets over ridden by higher level priest spells later on.

 

And I seriously disagree that it is more useful then storm spells.

 

Ciphers amplified wave was just as powerful as relentless storm prior to it getting nerfed.

 

But yeah I agree if Druids didn't have storms they would be one of the worst classes. On par with chanters and barbarians.

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But yeah I agree if Druids didn't have storms they would be one of the worst classes. On par with chanters and barbarians.

No, that is just wrong. First, Rogues are generally seem as weaker than Chanters, specially after Chanters get Dragon Thrashed.

 

Second, Druids still have Spiritshift, which is more than capable of outdamaging Rogues, high enough deflection to off-tank in human form, and a very big pool of spells that may require more thought than their storms, but are still very powerful. Form of the Delemgan + Binding Web, anyone?

 

Losing storns would be a big nerf, but they would become as strong as ciphers, instead of being on the tier of Priests and Wizards.

Edited by DreamWayfarer
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Wouldn't use Druids if they didn't have it, easily the most powerful spells in their arsenal and they're kind of a lame class without them.

 

They'd definitely need some buffs to other spells if it got nerfed.

Edited by Odd Hermit
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Wouldn't use Druids if they didn't have it, easily the most powerful spells in their arsenal and they're kind of a lame class without them.

 

They'd definitely need some buffs to other spells if it got nerfed.

Agree totally. I wouldn't use Druids without storms. There would be no point having them.

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Wouldn't use Druids if they didn't have it, easily the most powerful spells in their arsenal and they're kind of a lame class without them.

 

They'd definitely need some buffs to other spells if it got nerfed.

Agree totally. I wouldn't use Druids without storms. There would be no point having them.

Sad situation really Druids being set up like this. I would probably rather a barbarian in my party then a druid without storm spells, that's how much they would suck.

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Devotion of the faithful is ok early but it gets over ridden by higher level priest spells later on.

 

And I seriously disagree that it is more useful then storm spells.

 

Mmm, no. Devotion for the Faithful does not get overriden. Never. No Party buff has the same effect. It even stacks with Blessing and Radiance for a total +35 Acc Bonus.

 

Nothing in this game can resist High Acc and CC spells. Storm might be the best CC spell of the game but you can replace it by other spells. But NOTHING comes close to Devotion Accuracy bonus. This spells will turn the tide of dangerous battle, of course combined with other spells.

 

Might bonus and debuff part is just icing on the cake.

 

Crown of the faithful is also extremely potent by the way.

 

Storm might be very flashy and it ridiculizes even average battle (as you said), but it is not the best spell of the game. Thinking twice, I realize that might be your point : Devotion of the Faithfull is not able to trivialize most encounters the same way indeed ^^

Edited by Elric Galad
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Sad situation really Druids being set up like this. I would probably rather a barbarian in my party then a druid without storm spells, that's how much they would suck.

You know, despite Barbarians being arguably one of the weaker classes, they aren't very far from other non-casters, and there are many situations I'd prefer a Barbarian to a Cipher or Ranger, so the fact Druids would be, in your (wrong) opinion on the tier of Barbarians, is actually a good thing, considering how OP the caster classes currently are.

 

But even then, have you ever used any spells other than the storm ones after you unlocked them? Or tried to play your Druid as something other than a pure backline caster?

 

Because Druids still have many other cool spells, and while without the storm spells they would be worse pure casters than Wizards, if we compare every class with Wizards there is no reason to build any party other than five Wizards plus one Priest.

Edited by DreamWayfarer
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What is a druid without storms? The nerfhammer is not going to fix the game anyway. Wizards also have very powerful spells, even more than storms. And level 5 spells are somewhat limited so unless you rest too often you can't cast a relentless storm every battle. Returning storm is a good spell, but far from being a gamechanger. Overwhelming wave is one of the best druid spells for example, but hard to use without harming your teammates.

Edited by indika_tates
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What is a druid without storms?

Depends on your build, here are two exemples I like:

 

Auto attacking monster that puts rogues to shame for 20 seconds per encounter. And also a caster with a wide selection of damage spells, solid CC, and even a couple buffs and healing. Not bad.

 

A shield-bearing off-tank that can stand in the frontline to cast powerful damage and CC spells with no fear of friendly-fire, and give much welcome healing to those standing close. Not bad at all.

 

Storms are just the icing on the elemental cake. Nerfing them won't make Druids underpowered.

Edited by DreamWayfarer
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You are right. Indeed they are versatile if you build them different. But storms are not as powerful as other spells. Adragan, Confusion, DAoM, Citzal's lance, Blights and even Slicken. And Ninagauth's spells are something to take in mind. Iceball with paralysis? It's just too strong. Equip the two rings that give +2+2 / +2+1 spells per rest and you can spam AOE cc and nukes like no other class can.

 

I mean, yes storms are very useful. And that's the main reason I use a druid, because it's a composite spell that do damage/stun at the same time. But I feel is ok because casters are the supreme class of this game, no matter if it's a priest, a druid or a wizard. It's not about a spell. It's just that casters late game are too powerful. And at this stage of the game I think dev's can't do too much about it.

Edited by indika_tates
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Yeah the storm spells are good, but overpowered compared to some priest and wizard spells, no way. Want to nerf them you are gonna have to take a nerf bat to wizards and priests. And it is way to late for major balance changes anyway.

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"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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If you think that they are too powerful then you need to choose not to use them. I find myself avoiding Rangers with Stormcaller for similar reasons, it just stuns everything without even needing to cast a spell.

 

Set up House Rules and self limit what you use to adjust the difficulty to what you enjoy. Better this than to take away a signature spell from a class that many would find ruinous.

 

In my current PoyD play through I am limiting myself to only four guys of which none are casters. I've got a Juggernaut Monk 3.0, Devil of Caroc, Pellaginna, and Kana. It has been fun and challenging so far.

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If you think that they are too powerful then you need to choose not to use them. I find myself avoiding Rangers with Stormcaller for similar reasons, it just stuns everything without even needing to cast a spell.

 

Set up House Rules and self limit what you use to adjust the difficulty to what you enjoy. Better this than to take away a signature spell from a class that many would find ruinous.

 

In my current PoyD play through I am limiting myself to only four guys of which none are casters. I've got a Juggernaut Monk 3.0, Devil of Caroc, Pellaginna, and Kana. It has been fun and challenging so far.

Well talking about overpowered I'm running a main as a boreal dwarf juggernaut monk .... And he is pretty much breaking the game.... :)

So much fun though.

"Those who look upon gods then say, without even knowing their names, 'He is Fire. She is Dance. He is Destruction. She is Love.' So, to reply to your statement, they do not call themselves gods. Everyone else does, though, everyone who beholds them."
"So they play that on their fascist banjos, eh?"
"You choose the wrong adjective."
"You've already used up all the others.”

 

Lord of Light

 

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To balance casters and melee they'd have to tweak encounter sizes and the strength of some enemies that come in large groups. I think that's the root of this problem.

 

The advantage melee enemy groups have is ability to surround your party and beat on squishies. The player can't really ever have that advantage(maybe with an all ranger/chanter party) because for most encounters they're outnumbered and so chokepoints and AoE disables are the name of the game, which also make melee less desirable because they're less capable of contributing to that strategy. Really you only need one main tank and one off tank and preferably that melee is focused on a reach weapon or ranged weapon on tanks only when necessary to save the back line.

 

Casters also have enough outs to survive. Wizards can pop Arcane Veil and a defensive spell or two and be nearly a tank themselves, and other casters still get decent deflection with a hatchet and small shield w/talents which doesn't limit their casting power.

 

There's also engagement, which makes it hard for melee to maneuver and flank - and flanking while outnumbered isn't always a good idea anyway. Tanking while your casters have free reign is dramatically more convenient as a playstyle.

 

Last but not least, melee are easier for enemies to dump AoEs on. Having only a few melee, and making sure they're damned sturdy, is much easier to deal with than a clump of more fragile engaged melee that end up just making your priest all stressed out trying to keep them alive.

 

____

 

What I consider a well balanced party isn't 3 melee 3 casters, it's 1 tank, 1 off-tank(possibly a pseudo-caster like Chanter), and 4 casters/ranged.

 

Wizard, Cipher and a Priest have the most "staple" feeling abilities. Druid is the most optional feeling caster.

 

Paladins are the safest tank choice probably, due to their defense bonuses and their ability to be highly useful to damage characters while tanking rather than just sitting there not doing good damage.

 

Monks are insane damage for how tanky they are, but I still find them awkardly designed - you have to pause and spend wounds frantically to really make them shine.

 

____

 

 

Strongest(safest, if not fastest) party I've used is probably Paladin(Darcozzi) / Paladin(Shieldbearer) / Ranger / Cipher / Wizard / Priest.

 

The Paladins are lackluster damage(the Shieldbearer w/Tall Grass is alright) but they're fridges and keep your casters comfortable with extra DR, deflection, accuracy, and hit/graze conversions both ways in their favor. I also take Zealous Charge, it's nice to have in a pinch.

 

Ranger has a pet to off-tank in a pinch while still putting out high damage and some debuffs/disables.

 

Cipher obviously means way less resting, and is great regardless. Opening with a free confusion is one of the best things you can do for many encounters.

 

Wizard has the on demand AoE disables when things get ugly, with Alacrity they can seriously spell sling, and put out solid damage with Blights.

 

Priest of course just has the strongest buffs in the game aside from maybe a few crazy Cipher ones(Defensive Mindweb).

 

 

One paladin could be swapped for a Chanter but I find them a bit lackluster, plus the bug where they randomly don't chant in combat drives me insane anyway.

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I will say though, that cloak that gives 1 per encounter escape(teleport) is super fun to use with a wolf shifted druid to ambush enemy mages. Surprise werewolf in your face. Prone and pwn. Storm spells might be the most powerful aspect of the druid class but I have to say I enjoy the dramatic flailing animation of their forms as they shred things.

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If you think that they are too powerful then you need to choose not to use them. I find myself avoiding Rangers with Stormcaller for similar reasons, it just stuns everything without even needing to cast a spell.

 

Set up House Rules and self limit what you use to adjust the difficulty to what you enjoy. Better this than to take away a signature spell from a class that many would find ruinous.

 

In my current PoyD play through I am limiting myself to only four guys of which none are casters. I've got a Juggernaut Monk 3.0, Devil of Caroc, Pellaginna, and Kana. It has been fun and challenging so far.

I don't use rangers for this reason too. Absolute yawn fest.

 

I've came to the same conclusion with Druids unfortunately. My druid days are over.....

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If you think that they are too powerful then you need to choose not to use them. I find myself avoiding Rangers with Stormcaller for similar reasons, it just stuns everything without even needing to cast a spell.

 

Set up House Rules and self limit what you use to adjust the difficulty to what you enjoy. Better this than to take away a signature spell from a class that many would find ruinous.

 

In my current PoyD play through I am limiting myself to only four guys of which none are casters. I've got a Juggernaut Monk 3.0, Devil of Caroc, Pellaginna, and Kana. It has been fun and challenging so far.

I don't use rangers for this reason too. Absolute yawn fest.

 

I've came to the same conclusion with Druids unfortunately. My druid days are over.....

 

The game needs an option to play as Ranger without Stormcaller and as Druid who does not cast stormy spells.

Vancian =/= per rest.

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With weaker storms, that's pretty much setting mages up to be the only ranged blasting class.  I think removing druids from rough parity with wizards would be a mistake for overall balance.

 

Wizards don't have one spell that I constantly abuse like relentless storm. Wizards are more versatile.

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Do you know that it Bearcat International day ? (yes, they made a day for it)

 

Bearcat, also called Binturong, is a relative of Bear and Cat. My avatar is actually a Bearcat.

 

They are like 50% cat, 50% bear, 100% cool with a Popcorn-like smell and long Prehensile tail.

They eat a lot of fruits, and spread the seeds all around the Southeast asian jungle. Googlelize it, it is IMHO the coolest animal on earth !

 

That's a Druid topic, so why not a Bearcat Spiritshift for PoE2 ?

Or a Bearcat pet for ranger ?

It would be SOOOOOOOOOOOO COOOOOOOOOOOOLLLL  :bow:  :bow:  :bow:

Edited by Elric Galad
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