Suggestion: Let players play difficult mode the first time

[elcoderdude]

Normal mode is too easy. I wish I could play difficult mode the first time I play a scenario.  I'm just going through the motions playing normal mode.

[torm3ntin]

Normal mode is too easy. I wish I could play difficult mode the first time I play a scenario.  I'm just going through the motions playing normal mode.

Not easy for those unfamiliar with the game.

 

Also, remember that, the more,u farm, more gold you get!

[Borissimo]

Are you playing with 6 characters? I'm a PACG veteran and A) I find 6 characters to be appropriately challenging on Normal, and B) when I did try playing on Heroic or Legendary with a 6-character party from the get-go, I got smoked. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I'd be very surprised if anyone could win consistently on Legendary with a fresh 6-player party.

 

Edit: Also, just in case it is not clear, you can play Heroic from the get-go any scenario you've already beaten on Normal, and you can play Legendary from the get-go any scenario you've already beaten on Heroic. So my advice would be, play through the game on Normal/Heroic with a 6-character party for the maximum challenge there, and then play Legendary from the get-go with any party you'd like.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Borissimo

[esctab]

Normal mode is too easy. I wish I could play difficult mode the first time I play a scenario.  I'm just going through the motions playing normal mode.

Easy? I do not agree. With two heroes you have four locations with 30 turns, basically that's 40 cards to beat in worst case scenario.

 

However, with six heroes that would be 10 (or 9?) locations with the same 30 turns, and I find that very challenging. It's not the villains or the henchmen, but just the limited turns you have. There are more places the villain can flees to, too.

 

Bit off the topic... I would appreciate if the game can give a bit more turns for a larger party - the number of locations would scale with the party size, why not the number of turns?

[Borissimo]

Bit off the topic... I would appreciate if the game can give a bit more turns for a larger party - the number of locations would scale with the party size, why not the number of turns?

 

It's a testament to the quality of the game that we have one person complaining the game is too easy and another complaining it's too hard in the same thread.

 

I played a live 6-player game that took about a year to complete, and we never lost, although there were some close calls. I do think the designers nailed it with the turn count -- if the number of turns scaled with the number of players, then the resource advantage that a large party has compared to a small one would outweigh the extra challenge presented by the additional locations.

 

Think of it this way: If Merisiel plays by herself, then when she needs to make a Charisma 6 check to close a location, at best she's rolling 2d6, which she'll fail a lot of the time. If she plays with Kyra, then Kyra can play a blessing as a well, making it a 3d6 to hit a 6 -- way more likely. Alone, Merisiel is going to lose time having to explore through the rest of the location because she can't close it. With Kyra, she's going to lose time because there are 10 extra cards to get through in the same amount of turns, but some of that time will be saved when she successfully makes checks she couldn't have reliably made alone. It doesn't balance out equally, of course, but adding extra turns for larger parties would tip things too far in the advantage of larger parties.

[Hannibal_PJV]

Indeed!

Large party have characters that Are better in closing the locations because They have wider skill pool. They have less time, but They Are more effient.

 

And yes, the normal mode is too easy )

The heroic mode is very good and legendary gives some challenge.

All in all this is very good package. Normal mode gives some minor challenge to the Beginners. And when the game gets too easy, you can level up to harder levels. But I agree with the original author. I would like to start directly From the heroic level without going trough the normal level. Many experienced players most likely erot more heroic and legendary levels!

Edited May 1, 2016 by Hannibal_PJV

[Doppelschwert]

Bit off the topic... I would appreciate if the game can give a bit more turns for a larger party - the number of locations would scale with the party size, why not the number of turns?

That's been the source for quite some confusion when I first started the physical game, and I think there are a lot of threads about this in forums dedicated to the physical game.

 

The short answer is, if you do the math, it actually scales quite well. If you are interested, you can search the topic on the internet, but it boils down to the fact that with more characters (assuming a balanced party) you

- are more efficient with closing locations (what hannibal just posted)

- have access to more free explorations (most allies and blessings can be turned into explorations, after all)

- the number of cards you have to go through in each deck to encounter the henchman is closer to their expected value, so that you don't need to check all cards in the decks anyway (where the different characters increase the probability of actually closing the location at the first encounter with a henchman to achieve this number).

 

Even a simplified mathematical analysis can show that the game does not scale as badly with the number of players as it seems at first.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Doppelschwert

[Hastur]

I don't mind them letting players start off on harder settings if they want, but there are some players who will automatically set the settings higher sight unseen because they don't want to play on 'easy.'  Then, if we're honest about it, some of them, being unfamiliar with the game, will get their asses handed to them and complain about the difficulty or, even worse, simply stop playing because they find it too hard.

 

The basic game following the basic essential rules of the physical game is the most important thing.  If you love the physical game, them you should be able to trounce the normal mode in record time and unlock those harder settings anyway.  There's not a truly signifiant upside to changing the set-up and, moreover, the convention of going through easier modes to unlock harder modes is well established and works pretty well.

 

Like the dude said up above, you can unlock the harder settings with any party and then play from there on out with whatever party, new or experienced, you desire.

[whoopdido]

Those that have played the physical game know that later adventure decks get much more difficult. Ok, the tutorial and decks 1 and 2 might not be that tough but by the time you get to decks 4, 5 and 6 it gets much more difficult.

 

It's been a while since I played Runelords but I do remember breezing through the first couple pretty easily but we had a much tougher time with the later decks and failed many times.

 

The game is designed to get progressively harder but your characters also progressively get stronger to even that out but I'd say the game gets harder at a faster rate than the characters get better.

[Brainwave]

After you've run through all the difficulties with one party, does that unlock Heroic and Legendary for future groups as well or do you have to unlock them with each group? I realize I could test this myself but figured I'd just ask since its on-topic.

 

I don't mind the concept of having to unlock it once but as a challenge I'd like to be able to try to go straight through just on Legendary with a future group.

[esctab]

I really appreciate all the comments and I believe that the Dev team thought about it carefully before making the game this way. It's just me who just heard of/played this game for the very first time. Unlike other quickies in the AppStore, I managed to keep trying after utterly failed for like ten times going blindly into the game, I was so happy with my failed adventures that I purchased the bundle 2 hours in (I usually do not spend much on iOS games).

 

That said, I know there are lots of experienced players around to think the game is too easy on default, however, releasing the game in mobile platforms is a great opportunity to let more "green" but interested people like myself to get to know, love and financially support the Dev team. If the default difficulty is set too high, then it 'd discourage newcomers to keep going.

 

The problem of many board games is that it gradually becomes a game for the elites, who have different taste and requirement than regular causal players, who have a much shorter attention span given the current mobile game environment. Setting the difficulty too high may be satisfying for the experienced players, but it would not help the Dev to grow player base to its full potential, hence less money for the Dev team to maintain and develop new exciting titles.

 

So what I would suggest is keep the "too easy" default for new players like me, and maybe a bit more information on the rules and tips would go a long way.

[Borissimo]

After you've run through all the difficulties with one party, does that unlock Heroic and Legendary for future groups as well?

 

Yes.

[Brainwave]

Cool, thanks for quick response. That's fine as far as I'm concerned then, it's not that much to have to do it once.

[Hannibal_PJV]

Of course the normal mode has to remain as easy as it is in real game! That is very important to the new players. But if you have played real Runelords 3 times From Beginning to the end, it would be nice to start directly From the higher level.

For any new player the normal mode is just fine as it is, because it will get much harder in the upper levels.

It just is good to give options to the players.

[elcoderdude]

After complaining about this, I did eventually kill a character through careless play and a bad roll, and once lost on time.

 

I am playing with 6 characters.

[Hastur]

Of course the normal mode has to remain as easy as it is in real game! That is very important to the new players. But if you have played real Runelords 3 times From Beginning to the end, it would be nice to start directly From the higher level.

For any new player the normal mode is just fine as it is, because it will get much harder in the upper levels.

It just is good to give options to the players.

I question the usefulness of bypassing regular play altogether.  For a minimal investment, you can permanently have the hardest mode available for all of your character permutations.  You just have to show your chops.  It's not unreasonably onerous for the player.  This is the sort of thinking that will eventually lead to a small, rarified group of vocal players in this forum to declare that the legendary setting isn't hard enough and Obsidian needs to come out with five difficulty settings and allow new players to select any one from the very beginning.  Then, when a whole slew of hapless bastards go in thinking that they don't need to get a feel for the game and get stomped, then they can come in and complain also.

 

There are already options in the game.  Want to impose a rule saying only moves to adjacent locations?  Take that option.  Only move characters to the adjacent location.  Want to impose a rule of only 25 blessings in the deck?  Forfeit if you get 25 in and haven't won.  Want to say that goblins deal one point of fire damage?  Discard an extra card to reflect each point at the end of the turn.

 

Folks who love sandbox games always want more options as if perfect freedom in a game is good.  Games are more about the boundaries in the first place.  Options are created by the underlying mechanics and some of us are playing the game because we love the mechanics in the first place.  I don't begrudge harder settings.  I've been going through them myself for the fun of it, but expecting the players to finish one level with at least one party before going to the next difficulty does not appear to be unreasonable on its face.  In fact, upon a more lengthy consideration, I still don't think it's unreasonable.

[elcoderdude]

Turns out your party makes a big difference in how easy the game is.

 

First time out,  I used Seoni, Sajan, Kyra, Lini, Harsk and Merisiel.

Harsk makes everyone better at combat, particularly in the early scenarios. You make the close checks you would otherwise have failed.  Plus, his scouting is invaluable.

With Merisiel and Seoni, you have two characters who are basically always ready for combat (assuming Merisiel is alone). Plus, Merisiel can evade.

Lots of healing (which Seoni needs, and also Sajan).

Harsk can hand a dex weapon off to Lini.

This is a powerful group with good synergy.

 

Second time, I used Ezren, Kyra, Seelah, Sajan, Lini, and Amiri.

This group struggled where the first group sailed.

With Kyra and Seelah, you have two characters who may not be ready for combat on their first turn.

I sorely missed Harsk's combat assistance ability.

The one thing this group has is healing, and they needed it. Still, in my first scenario, Kyra would have died if we failed the check against the villain.

Edited May 3, 2016 by elcoderdude

[Kgk4569]

I sometimes use Kyra for deck mining (Augery, Spyglass) combo'd with blessings, and healing.