EU send Ukraine GTFO

[obyknven]

New Ukrainian thread because of latest news. 
 
http://youtu.be/BrwqiAdqQMY
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35976086
 

Netherlands backstab Ukraine

Discuss.

[Gorgon]

They just used the opportunity to vote no to the EU, it's not like anyone had a clue what a 1000 page trade agreement contained. the EU is suffering a PR low because of the refugee crisis.

[obyknven]

They just used the opportunity to vote no to the EU, it's not like anyone had a clue what a 1000 page trade agreement contained. the EU is suffering a PR low because of the refugee crisis.

You just don't understand Ukrainian sacrifices for democracy/US/EU . All what they do last few years ( coup, civil war and destruction of own country, selling own people into slavery in EU) - they do for pleasure  of Western masters,  Just imagine how they feel yourself now.

[BruceVC]

New Ukrainian thread because of latest news. 

 

http://youtu.be/BrwqiAdqQMY

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35976086

 

Netherlands backstab Ukraine

Discuss.

Good work for posting a credible link Oby

 

The Netherlands didn't back stab  anyone as only 32 % of the Dutch people voted and then only 3/5 of those voters rejected the deal

 

So that means only 20 % of the Dutch were against this Ukrainian deal , this would be a perfectly normal number of citizens in any EU country that would be considered " anti-EU "  ( I'm rounding numbers up or down marginally for convenience )

 

 

Gert Wilders never ceases with the theatrics  "  Geert Wilders, who leads the anti-EU and anti-Islam Freedom Party, said the result was the "beginning of the end for the EU".

 

 

This entire vote does not reflect anything that we dont know ....people are unhappy with the EU. For me they dont represent the majority of EU citizens 

Edited April 8, 2016 by BruceVC

[Valsuelm]

Inconsequential.

[Blarghagh]

"Backstabbing" Ukraine is a huge overstatement considering the record low voting turn out on that referendum. What was it, 10 guys with an anti-EU obsession showed up and used it as an excuse to show how much they dislike the EU and not whether or not they care about Ukraine at all, and then the rest of the country didn't even care enough about Ukraine at all to even show up. I didn't give a ****, I didn't vote on it. Most people I know weren't even aware that there was a referendum at all, let alone what it was about. Ukraine can come in or piss off, it's all the same to me. The referendum was a joke of epic proportions, a publicity stunt from far-right parties and media and it shouldn't be taken as actually mattering at all in any way, shape or form.

[BruceVC]

"Backstabbing" Ukraine is a huge overstatement considering the record low voting turn out on that referendum. What was it, 10 guys with an anti-EU obsession showed up and used it as an excuse to show how much they dislike the EU and not whether or not they care about Ukraine at all, and then the rest of the country didn't even care enough about Ukraine at all to even show up. I didn't give a ****, I didn't vote on it. Most people I know weren't even aware that there was a referendum at all, let alone what it was about. Ukraine can come in or piss off, it's all the same to me. The referendum was a joke of epic proportions, a publicity stunt from far-right parties and media and it shouldn't be taken as actually mattering at all in any way, shape or form.

Good points raised TN, its important when we debate these events that the actual citizens of the countries comment as I would consider your views credible 

[Blarghagh]

"I don't give a flying hoot" is a credible view now?

[BruceVC]

"I don't give a flying hoot" is a credible view now?

No

 

But the fact you don't give a  " flying hoot " is because its not a big deal and this is  credible because you are Dutch citizen

 

If there was serious vote for the Netherlands to leave the EU I'm sure you would give a " flying hoot " 

[obyknven]

 

They just used the opportunity to vote no to the EU, it's not like anyone had a clue what a 1000 page trade agreement contained. the EU is suffering a PR low because of the refugee crisis.

You just don't understand Ukrainian sacrifices for democracy/US/EU . All what they do last few years ( coup, civil war and destruction of own country, selling own people into slavery in EU) - they do for pleasure  of Western masters,  Just imagine how they feel yourself now.

 

About selling people into EU - it's not hollow words. Ukrainian 20-year old silicon girl become a playmate of the year in EU.

http://youtu.be/DdW7yvKnYWY

 

 Ukrainian women for Europeans

http://youtu.be/lywgCmrrkDU

 

 

 

I didn't vote on it. Most people I know weren't even aware that there was a referendum at all, let alone what it was about. Ukraine can come in or piss off, it's all the same to me. 

After all this reject of EU-Ukraine partnership by Europeans (who just too lazy for move own arse to referendum )  outraged many Ukrinians.

[Volourn]

"So that means only 20 % of the Dutch were against this Ukrainian deal"
 

Your math skills make sense. You have no idea what the non voters think. Are you a mind reader now? If this were a poll, a 30% of the pop coming out would be taken as 'representative' by a large margin. L0L

[BruceVC]

"So that means only 20 % of the Dutch were against this Ukrainian deal"

 

Your math skills make sense. You have no idea what the non voters think. Are you a mind reader now? If this were a poll, a 30% of the pop coming out would be taken as 'representative' by a large margin. L0L

Yes I am a mind reader....we have discussed this and I'm sure you agreed ?

[Blarghagh]

 

I didn't vote on it. Most people I know weren't even aware that there was a referendum at all, let alone what it was about. Ukraine can come in or piss off, it's all the same to me. 

After all this reject of EU-Ukraine partnership by Europeans (who just too lazy for move own arse to referendum )  outraged many Ukrinians.

 

Tough ****. I care even less now that you think it's a big deal. See, you're a factor that works again those hardworking Ukrainians. In fact, just the fact that you say it makes more people disagree with everything you say. So I think we can all agree it would be better if you stopped talking altogether, for the sake of the things you believe in.

Edited April 8, 2016 by TrueNeutral

[Valsuelm]

About selling people into EU - it's not hollow words. Ukrainian 20-year old silicon girl become a playmate of the year in EU.

"Ukrainian 20-year old silicon girl"

 

LOL

 

So sad, there are many legitimately beautiful women out there in Ukrainian land. To be supplanted by siliconed superficial. Alas.

 

Tough ****. I care even less now that you think it's a big deal. See, you're a factor that works again those hardworking Ukrainians. In fact, just the fact that you say it makes more people disagree with everything you say. So I think we can all agree it would be better if you stopped talking altogether, for the sake of the things you believe in.

 

I kinda like Oby's input. When it doesn't make absolutely no sense whatsoever it usually is amusing. It's even sometimes insightful, albeit rarely. Even moreso than many who post here regularly are capable of.

 

Keep talking Oby!

Edited April 8, 2016 by Valsuelm

[213374U]

"Backstabbing" Ukraine is a huge overstatement considering the record low voting turn out on that referendum. What was it, 10 guys with an anti-EU obsession showed up and used it as an excuse to show how much they dislike the EU and not whether or not they care about Ukraine at all, and then the rest of the country didn't even care enough about Ukraine at all to even show up. I didn't give a ****, I didn't vote on it. Most people I know weren't even aware that there was a referendum at all, let alone what it was about. Ukraine can come in or piss off, it's all the same to me. The referendum was a joke of epic proportions, a publicity stunt from far-right parties and media and it shouldn't be taken as actually mattering at all in any way, shape or form.

 

So... Netherlands has a population of 31,05? I might consider moving there if that's the case. I hate crowds.

 

What I don't understand is why you say it's a joke, considering that turnout was over the 30% required by law to be binding. Doesn't that mean it's rather the referendum law that it's a joke then? What happens if the turnout doesn't reach the minimum threshold, the gov't can do whatever, or do they have to repeat it over and over?

 

Regardless, how come most people you know didn't even know there was a referendum to begin with?

[BruceVC]

 

"Backstabbing" Ukraine is a huge overstatement considering the record low voting turn out on that referendum. What was it, 10 guys with an anti-EU obsession showed up and used it as an excuse to show how much they dislike the EU and not whether or not they care about Ukraine at all, and then the rest of the country didn't even care enough about Ukraine at all to even show up. I didn't give a ****, I didn't vote on it. Most people I know weren't even aware that there was a referendum at all, let alone what it was about. Ukraine can come in or piss off, it's all the same to me. The referendum was a joke of epic proportions, a publicity stunt from far-right parties and media and it shouldn't be taken as actually mattering at all in any way, shape or form.

 

So... Netherlands has a population of 31,05? I might consider moving there if that's the case. I hate crowds.

 

What I don't understand is why you say it's a joke, considering that turnout was over the 30% required by law to be binding. Doesn't that mean it's rather the referendum law that it's a joke then? What happens if the turnout doesn't reach the minimum threshold, the gov't can do whatever, or do they have to repeat it over and over?

 

Regardless, how come most people you know didn't even know there was a referendum to begin with?

 

I went back and read the article and its not binding this vote but the Dutch government may have to reconsider the deal which it already signed with Ukraine 

 

The 30 % threshold just means the vote  is recognized ...but not binding  

 

I must say I misunderstood the article the first time I read it 

Edited April 8, 2016 by BruceVC

[Valsuelm]

The 30 % threshold just means the vote  is recognized ...but not binding

What a beautiful thing democracy is in a nation with a King!

[BruceVC]

 

The 30 % threshold just means the vote  is recognized ...but not binding

What a beautiful thing democracy is in a nation with a King!

 

Yeah....I have to be honest I'm not sure why 30 % now requires the Dutch government to possibly  reconsider the deal

 

Yes I know its there law but I would think maybe 45-50 %  is a more significant number?

[213374U]

What a beautiful thing democracy is in a nation with a King!

While I agree with the sentiment, that's not completely fair. We have a -thoroughly corrupt- monarchy over here, but referendums, in subjects where they may be called, cannot be overruled by the Crown. Theoretically a (series of) referendum(s) could turn the country into a republic (again).

 

Anyway, yeah. I hadn't actually read the beeb link, I had only heard about this yesterday in the news, in passing.

 

Per wiki:

 

 

A referendum can be requested for any piece of primary legislation, including treaty ratifications, after it was signed into law and published in the Staatscourant, but generally before it enters into force (subject to exceptions). The law excludes several subjects, such as laws concerning: the monarchy or royal family, the national budget, constitutional amendments, legislation passed solely for the execution of treaties or decisions of intergovernmental organisations, Kingdom acts (unless they will solely apply to the Netherlands) and legislation passed in response to a previous referendum

So yeah, the law is a joke. You can have referendums, but the States General (general assembly?) can overrule them, and they can't be called for anything really important anyway. Go go democracy.

[JadedWolf]

Guys, guys. There really is no reason to show any interest in this. We Europeans are irrelevant in the world, and becoming more irrelevant every day. Better to shower other, more important regions of the world with your attention. China, for example. I hear the state of democracy over there is almost as bad as over here in Europe.

[BruceVC]

Guys, guys. There really is no reason to show any interest in this. We Europeans are irrelevant in the world, and becoming more irrelevant every day. Better to shower other, more important regions of the world with your attention. China, for example. I hear the state of democracy over there is almost as bad as over here in Europe.

I know you joking but the EU is very important and relevant 

 

The EU is an example of how many other similar blocks of countries outside the EU can create political unions  to achieve economic prosperity for its citizens 

 

For example the African Union wanted to achieve what the EU has done

 

Some of the  "negative " realities of being in the EU  are certain  issues all Western countries in some way or the other has to grapple with ...you are held to a higher standard and there is an expectation how the EU needs to conduct itself that leads to domestic frustration as its only the EU that is trying to adhere to a higher moral ground 

 

For example the obvious development around all these refugees arriving in the EU....many people in the EU feel  they have some sort of obligation to take in these refugees. It will vary from country to country but IMO why should the EU have to do something that not even countries in the ME are doing? I have said this many times but its a bizarre situation were Sunni Muslim countries in the ME like Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar wont take any refugees yet the EU thinks it has to 

 

But I still believe the EU will ultimately become stronger from all this as degrees of multiculturalism are a good thing, it just needs to be managed 

[Valsuelm]

 

Guys, guys. There really is no reason to show any interest in this. We Europeans are irrelevant in the world, and becoming more irrelevant every day. Better to shower other, more important regions of the world with your attention. China, for example. I hear the state of democracy over there is almost as bad as over here in Europe.

I know you joking but the EU is very important and relevant 

 

The EU is an example of how many other similar blocks of countries outside the EU can create political unions  to achieve economic prosperity for its citizens 

 

For example the African Union wanted to achieve what the EU has done

 

Some of the  "negative " realities of being in the EU  are certain  issues all Western countries in some way or the other has to grapple with ...you are held to a higher standard and there is an expectation how the EU needs to conduct itself that leads to domestic frustration as its only the EU that is trying to adhere to a higher moral ground 

 

For example the obvious development around all these refugees arriving in the EU....many people in the EU feel  they have some sort of obligation to take in these refugees. It will vary from country to country but IMO why should the EU have to do something that not even countries in the ME are doing? I have said this many times but its a bizarre situation were Sunni Muslim countries in the ME like Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar wont take any refugees yet the EU thinks it has to 

 

But I still believe the EU will ultimately become stronger from all this as degrees of multiculturalism are a good thing, it just needs to be managed

 

If ever there was a cheerleader for dystopia, you are he.

[Valsuelm]

Guys, guys. There really is no reason to show any interest in this. We Europeans are irrelevant in the world, and becoming more irrelevant every day. Better to shower other, more important regions of the world with your attention. China, for example. I hear the state of democracy over there is almost as bad as over here in Europe.

Stop posting here. Go find ye a nice lady of European heritage and have some kids, many of them. Make sure you're relevant in the future!

[BruceVC]

 

 

Guys, guys. There really is no reason to show any interest in this. We Europeans are irrelevant in the world, and becoming more irrelevant every day. Better to shower other, more important regions of the world with your attention. China, for example. I hear the state of democracy over there is almost as bad as over here in Europe.

I know you joking but the EU is very important and relevant 

 

The EU is an example of how many other similar blocks of countries outside the EU can create political unions  to achieve economic prosperity for its citizens 

 

For example the African Union wanted to achieve what the EU has done

 

Some of the  "negative " realities of being in the EU  are certain  issues all Western countries in some way or the other has to grapple with ...you are held to a higher standard and there is an expectation how the EU needs to conduct itself that leads to domestic frustration as its only the EU that is trying to adhere to a higher moral ground 

 

For example the obvious development around all these refugees arriving in the EU....many people in the EU feel  they have some sort of obligation to take in these refugees. It will vary from country to country but IMO why should the EU have to do something that not even countries in the ME are doing? I have said this many times but its a bizarre situation were Sunni Muslim countries in the ME like Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar wont take any refugees yet the EU thinks it has to 

 

But I still believe the EU will ultimately become stronger from all this as degrees of multiculturalism are a good thing, it just needs to be managed

 

If ever there was a cheerleader for dystopia, you are he.

 

In what way? Is Dystopia the right word to describe my views

 

I looked the word up as I wasnt sure of its exact meaning

 

1. an imaginary place where everything is as bad as it can be

 

I dont think things are bad in the EU at all...I believe this is just a level of social transformation but the EU will persevere 

[JadedWolf]

 

Guys, guys. There really is no reason to show any interest in this. We Europeans are irrelevant in the world, and becoming more irrelevant every day. Better to shower other, more important regions of the world with your attention. China, for example. I hear the state of democracy over there is almost as bad as over here in Europe.

Stop posting here. Go find ye a nice lady of European heritage and have some kids, many of them. Make sure you're relevant in the future!

 

 

Kids? Eh, no thanks. Hate the little buggers.