There is no way to happiness: Solo PotD Naked

[Harpagornis]

After „Noobers Revenge: A Level 1 Solo Challenge“ this is the another ultimate challenge for Pillars of Eternity. It consists of five basic rules:

 

    1. Solo: Only use one character for the entire game.
    2. PotD: Set the game difficulty to "Path of the Damned".
    3. Naked: Don't use any items or equipment.

    4. Till the end: Beat the Main Game + White March 1 & 2.

    5. One way: You are not allowed to retrain your char.

There are only a couple of execptions to play through the game:

 

    1. You may use things like Camping Supply, Lock Pick, Hook, Prybar, Hammer and Chisel, Rope and Grapling Hook.
    2. You may use plot/quest items for their plot/quest purposes.
    3. You may use gold for quests, resting or buying the things named above.

    4. You may use gold to build up your Stronghold.

This challenge will try to cover Pillars of Eternity + White March 1 & 2. I dont know if its possible but why not trying it? The most important question is:

Which class is most likely able to pull it off? My considerations so far:

Rogue: Thanks to Shadowing Beyond he is able to get through many tricky situations where others would fail. Only downside: The lack of weapons and his melee limitation will hinder him hard later on.

Monk: Monks are an interesting option as they are quite powerful even without equipment (as i showed in the Ascetic Monk Run). The question is: Are they flexible enough to handle any upcoming opposition without the help of summons?

Wizard: Powerful spellcaster that are very flexibel. The big downside: As they rely on Spell Books you will have a hard time learning a good variety of spells. I havent played Wizards that much so my main question is: Which spells to take?

Druid: Very flexible spells with tons of heavy CC and also a quite powerful melee option thanks to Spiritshift. Not to forget: They got Blights with immunities that are able to replace missing summons. Sounds good. Is it enough?

Chanter: I have no clue as i never really played them. Are they an option?

Cipher: Again i have no idea. Good or bad choice?

Priest: So many buffs and interesting spells – is this maybe the way to go?

Paladin, Barbarian, Figher: I fear all of them rely too much on equipment so i dont think they would stand a chance. I am mistaken?

 

Ranger: Please - come on...

Any tips & tricks are welcome. Thanks!

Edited March 20, 2016 by Harpagornis

[DreamWayfarer]

Fighters have many self-healing abilities. Maybe they could be enough to survibe unnarmored. Maybe.

 

For wizards, are summoned weapons allowed?

[Braven]

Isn't this the same as your monk?  A monk doesn't really need items (at least as long as he is not attacking a crush-immune enemy).  Particularly after getting the ranged fist attack ability at level 7.  He could just take some wounds (to max passive attack damage), dash away by using a wound ability, and then just run around and shoot everything with his fists (and recovering the endurance loss with something like veterans recovery).  Monks have a lot of ways to increase movement speed to sky-high levels so they can easily kite all day and get out of trouble.  They also have abilities to help with avoiding or minimizing enemy disables and ranged attacks.  This is my choice since monks have a ranged attack.  Any other martial would need to fight in melee with Novice's Suffering and get swarmed.

 

The other obvious choice is a caster class.  They can just go nova with spells every battle and rest.  They also don't really need items.  However, the early game would be brutal because of lack of spells and they would have a harder time staying alive, compared with a monk.  

 

Finally there is probably the best class - Chanter.  Chanters don't actually need to ever attack so they can have a 3 DEX and recovery doesn't matter.  With chants like "Dragon thrashed", they can passively kill everything from afar with the power of their voice alone.  As an added bonus, it does both fire and slash damage to avoid immunities.  All they need to do is have Maxed out MIGHT and INT and run around in circles.  The biggest danger for them is ranged enemies and spell casters since they don't really have anything to protect against those.  Without items, defenses will be very low for all classes making it hard to avoid enemy spells and arrows.

 

Oh, and you left out Ranger as an option.  Just let your old friend Bear kill everything.  He doesn't need items. ;P

Edited March 18, 2016 by Braven

[Reent]

Isn't this the same as your monk?  A monk doesn't really need items (at least as long as he is not attacking a crush-immune enemy).  Particularly after getting the ranged fist attack ability at level 7.  He could just take some wounds (to max passive attack damage), dash away by using a wound ability, and then just run around and shoot everything with his fists (and recovering the endurance loss with something like veterans recovery).  Monks have a lot of ways to increase movement speed to sky-high levels so they can easily kite all day and get out of trouble.  They also have abilities to help with avoiding or minimizing enemy disables and ranged attacks.  This is my choice since monks have a ranged attack.  Any other martial would need to fight in melee with Novice's Suffering and get swarmed.

 

The other obvious choice is a caster class.  They can just go nova with spells every battle and rest.  They also don't really need items.  However, the early game would be brutal because of lack of spells and they would have a harder time staying alive, compared with a monk.  

 

Finally there is probably the best class - Chanter.  Chanters don't actually need to ever attack so they can have a 3 DEX and recovery doesn't matter.  With chants like "Dragon thrashed", they can passively kill everything from afar with the power of their voice alone.  As an added bonus, it does both fire and slash damage to avoid immunities.  All they need to do is have Maxed out MIGHT and INT and run around in circles.  The biggest danger for them is ranged enemies and spell casters since they don't really have anything to protect against those.  Without items, defenses will be very low for all classes making it hard to avoid enemy spells and arrows.

 

 

I think the Monk is a really good choice - chanter has many problems, your "chanters dont actually need to ever attack" - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76050-domination-and-charm/ you will get many fight resets that way, without something "focusing an enemy" the fight resets and you are ****ed - thats why you can forget the "run around" part... sure, sometimes it works (ice blights are easy to kill this way) however most enemies cant be kited around the spawn point (that way you would have a chance that the fight doesnt reset) - without a ranged weapon... chanter has hard problem while kiting - the system suXX

[Harpagornis]

Fighters have many self-healing abilities. Maybe they could be enough to survibe unnarmored. Maybe.

 

For wizards, are summoned weapons allowed?

 

Not sure about Fighters. With regard to wizards: Yes, summoned weapons are allowed.

 

 

Isn't this the same as your monk? 

 

Oh, and you left out Ranger as an option.  Just let your old friend Bear kill everything.  He doesn't need items. ;P

 

No, this isnt the same as the Ascetic Monk - its much harder as potions and summons are also not allowed.

Oh dear - please no Ranger again. Noobers painful path was enough...

 

 

I think the Monk is a really good choice - chanter has many problems, your "chanters dont actually need to ever attack" - http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76050-domination-and-charm/ you will get many fight resets that way, without something "focusing an enemy" the fight resets and you are ****ed - thats why you can forget the "run around" part... sure, sometimes it works (ice blights are easy to kill this way) however most enemies cant be kited around the spawn point (that way you would have a chance that the fight doesnt reset) - without a ranged weapon... chanter has hard problem while kiting - the system suXX

 

I also considered the Monk. It worked with potions & summons perfectly fine up to WM 2. The main question is: Will he surive some of the tough encounters without summons? And: How is he able to get through the infamous Caed Nua Phantoms?

Edited March 18, 2016 by Harpagornis

[Reent]

I also considered the Monk. It worked with potions & summons perfectly fine up to WM 2. The main question is: Will he surive some of the tough encounters without summons? And: How is he able to get through the infamous Caed Nua Phantoms?

 

aumaua max might/con, talent for +10fort - thats what i did before i looked at the figurine... at that time i played chanter and - ironman, to make it safe i even cleared raedric (took about 10-20 mins the fight alone - god that was about the maximum for a low fun part^^ - summons lasted the whole fight then...)

With survival acc bonus you could be able to kill them fast enough - maybe take the talent for 5 DR against frost or +25% damage vs spirits...

if everything else fails - clear the whole act 1 first - if you can clear enough and get to lvl 5 it should be easier^^

 

(cant say anything about the harder fights - vanilla game shouldnt be a problem and iron wheel could be the thing that makes other things possible, maybe you can tank for a bit with it... maybe you have to use speed and use only ranged... but since monk has a "ranged weapon" its one of the few classes that can kite naked)... i think wm1 is possible - wm2... hasnt seen me yet, the furthest i got was the fight before the room with the forge)

Edited March 18, 2016 by Reent

[Braven]

Ultimately a caster would be best.  It is just so hard to get them past the early levels.  The basic formula would then be "spam spells and kill one enemy", escape, rest, return, repeat.  Sure, you need to rest a million times, but in theory it is possible.  I haven't played the caster classes enough to know which is best, but I think wizard, with proper planning, would be fine as long as their initial spell book doesn't count as an item.  Just the spells from level up is enough with proper planning.  Also, you can always retrain if you need a particular spell... you don't list that as outlawed and it is not "an item".

Edited March 18, 2016 by Braven

[Reent]

Chanters do get summons.  That could "keep the enemy occupied" a bit.

 

The big question is "who can throw up meat shields" and who can attack from range without a weapon.  A Monk will still get torn apart at early levels and casters have limited spells.  The chanter, in theory, has unlimited spells.  Not saying it will be easy, but at least summons are possible and chants at least are a form of ranged combat.

have you solod with chanter? have you solod without ranged weapons and figurines? i play solo chanter 90% of the time - early game you have to wait 9-12 secs to cast one phantom, i struggle to get it out without figurines.

 

Now lets look at what you can do:

a) you can tank them for 9-12 secs, get the phantom out - you have trouble surviving the 9-12 secs and you still have the aggro, so no real meatshield for you.

b) you can run  to a place where only one enemy can attack you - maybe you survive it and get the phantom to soak everything else...

 

c) you can run until you have enough stacks to get your summon out, however:

c1) the enemies are faster than you, so they surround  you and you are left with stopping to tank or die to disengagement attacks

c2) you are faster than the enemy and:

c2.1) you can run in a circle not loosing the aggro despite running faster - congratz, you managed to get to the point where you can summon without dying

c2.2) the enemy stops running after you - you cant get the game to keep the fight going without a ranged attack - so no summon for you

c3) the enemy is as fast as you - sometimes you manage, sometimes you dont... up to luck.

 

so while chanter summons are indeed nice, the "naked" makes it almost impossible to use them - sure, fights such as raedric could be much easier then with a monk... but non forced fights? Pure horror.

[Harpagornis]

 

I also considered the Monk. It worked with potions & summons perfectly fine up to WM 2. The main question is: Will he surive some of the tough encounters without summons? And: How is he able to get through the infamous Caed Nua Phantoms?

 

aumaua max might/con, talent for +10fort - thats what i did before i looked at the figurine... at that time i played chanter and - ironman, to make it safe i even cleared raedric (took about 10-20 mins the fight alone - god that was about the maximum for a low fun part^^ - summons lasted the whole fight then...)

With survival acc bonus you could be able to kill them fast enough - maybe take the talent for 5 DR against frost or +25% damage vs spirits...

if everything else fails - clear the whole act 1 first - if you can clear enough and get to lvl 5 it should be easier^^

 

(cant say anything about the harder fights - vanilla game shouldnt be a problem and iron wheel could be the thing that makes other things possible, maybe you can tank for a bit with it... maybe you have to use speed and use only ranged... but since monk has a "ranged weapon" its one of the few classes that can kite naked)... i think wm1 is possible - wm2... hasnt seen me yet, the furthest i got was the fight before the room with the forge)

 

Aumaua - ah, havent thought about that. Good point! Would be even better to pull it off with Moon Godlike as the Healing Waves were a lifesaver in the Ascetic Run.

With the ranged fists.... hmmmmm... higher Int would be good.... hmmmmm.... tough decisions. The Ascetic Monk ran into several tight spots - especially in WM 1 - where summons and / or potions / scrolls seemed to be essential. Will have to rethink about this!

 

 

Ultimately a caster would be best.  It is just so hard to get them past the early levels.  The basic formula would then be "spam spells and kill one enemy", escape, rest, return, repeat.  Sure, you need to rest a million times, but in theory it is possible.  I haven't played the caster classes enough to know which is best, but I think wizard, with proper planning, would be fine as long as their initial spell book doesn't count as an item.  Just the spells from level up is enough with proper planning.  Also, you can always retrain if you need a particular spell... you don't list that as outlawed and it is not "an item".

Which spells should the Wizard focus on? Havent played them much. Personally i like Druids much more as they have so many powerful spells - and they get them automatically.

 

Retraining is a tough point. I am not sure if this should be allowed as it opens so many cheesy ways. Maybe it should be banned too - no?

Edited March 18, 2016 by Harpagornis

[Kaylon]

Moon godlike chanter - has speed, ranged attack (chant), summons and heals.

[Braven]

Isn't cheese the whole point? Regardless, it is not needed since there is usually only one or two spells that are any good (for your crazy build) anyways, so it is not hard to get everything you need.

 

The big advantage of wizard is the third level spell that doubles the speed of all your actions. It allows you to spam out spells twice as fast, which is really important once you have more spells than time to cast them. Since you can rest as much as you want, casting twice as many spells per battle will always be better than any individual spell. Other classes could achieve this "haste" with an item, but only wizards can do this with a spell.

 

Slicken is great first level. AOE prone with a large effect area.

 

For other spell levels, you need fast cast spells.. The goal is getting as many spells off as possible while enemies are disabled. This is why fireball at level 3 is also really good.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Braven

[Raven Darkholme]

Chanter.

[Dr <3]

Chanter: trouble until you reach lvl 9. After that just run around and wach people die. Druid: maxed shapeshift druid need no equip and can be the best DMG dealer in game at the same time, the problem is that the class itself is a bit fragile, and after 15-20 sec you have finished the fight or you have to run away. Wizard : good equilibrium in offense & defence, if you are allowed to rest often is the most powerful choice.

[Harpagornis]

Chanters sound nice in theory but - as Reent has stated - will be "problematic" in practice. More opinions on that one?

 

Retraining not only allows spell but also stat and ability cheesing. You need 18 Res for a specific quest? No problem! Your Stealth is too low? Retrain! And so on. I dont like this...

 

Back to Wizards: Fast cast will only be a critical factor if you dont have room to kite and need to bring enemies down as fast as possible. If kiting works i have all the time in the world cheesing around maximum engagement range and so on. I also dont like the spell limitation. Why not taking a Druid and getting all spells for free? Druids have insane CC power later on, they have summons, healing & the spiritform works great as a close combat finisher.

 

Another question for spellcasters: How should the stats look like in your opinion? Max INT & PER? A bit MIGHT? Push or drop DEX? Can we drop RES to minimum?

 

Monks are still an interesting option but as i have played a similar challenge before this feels a bit boring to me.

[Raven Darkholme]

Why does everybody say chanters are hard till level 9?

They get their most op skill at 9, but they are still as strong if not stronger than a paladin till then.

I pretty much never used a solo chanter cause it feels like cheating.

[Reent]

Why does everybody say chanters are hard till level 9?

They get their most op skill at 9, but they are still as strong if not stronger than a paladin till then.

I pretty much never used a solo chanter cause it feels like cheating.

So... you never used a solo chanter cause it feels like cheating... okay - right. Sure, lvl 1,2,3,4 the phantom just owns everything... however the problems keeps comming, you just dont get anything worth it before lvl 9, sure, white worms and phantom are monstrous - but situational... phantom cant be used with figurines - so after chaed nua? I dont really use it that much. White Worms? Is the only damage spell worth using before 7 nights - and you need bodies for it.

 

Full tank chanter has the endurance- aura so enemies die slowly... and he can use phantoms to kill enemies slowly - while he tanks, so full tank chanter has nice abilities to solo even lvl 5-8, however about everything he uses he has since lvl 2.

 

- i dont use full tank chanter, atm i am using speed chant and use a ranged weapon to kill the enemies slowly - i think every other class can do that better, however its the most reliable and not even a slow way for the chanter to kill stuff - sadly.

 

i have played druid, rogue, priest, paladin, wizard, chanter, barb, monk, ranger, cipher and the fighter solo - all until some part in act 2 or even further... i have to say... despite the fact that chanter is the class i can play best, despite the fact that i play 90% of the time chanter solo - i feel that the game is easier when i play other classes, no matter which one... its just that i know that i have the tools to defeat everything with chanter - thats why i invested the time to play chanter - in the beginning with endless time summons they were very good at soloing - even before lvl 9, however now? I am much faster with most other classes to act 2... and the best part? In act 2 many fights: i stand behind my figurine summon, shoot arrows and use endurance- aura... with 2-3 dex and plate... you know, every other class can do the same (not endurance- aura) and be faster at killing the enemies... only if a fight allows white worms... then chanter is number 1 - ah, no, after the scroll of waels quest i use the armor and use that spell all the time - without that spell i dont get enough fuel for white worms in heritage hill.... jeah, right - chanter is so strong before lvl 9

[Harpagornis]

Hhhmmm... different opinions on what to pick... thats interesting!

 

It would be even more interersting if other players would be willing to join the challenge - each one playing a different class.

Would be cool to see where and at which point each class runs into problems and what quests/ enemies are totally easy.

Maybe each class will run into a "there-is-no-way-through-point" but  thats part of the challenge. The journey is the reward!

 

Reent you are my Chanter. My phrase for you: "May the patience be with you!"

 

I would love to try Druid - its the class i played in nearly any other RPG and it fits me most.

 

Anyone wants to go with a Wizard? Or a Monk? Or something totally different?

[Reent]

hmmmm.... chanter without equipement? Let me try it with lvl 6 chanter in a low level area - if i can get one summon out without taking a hit, i will try it for 60 mins with a new character - i will stop if i rage too much after.

[Harpagornis]

hmmmm.... chanter without equipement? Let me try it with lvl 6 chanter in a low level area - if i can get one summon out without taking a hit, i will try it for 60 mins with a new character - i will stop if i rage too much after.

 

There you go - good luck! And try to use the power of your rages against the enemies!

[Reent]

okay - after almost killing my ironman chanter (i knew there was a xaurip skirmisher there, i just didnt know the game wouldnt pause the game -.-) he managed to get zero stacks vs the skirmisher - figurines killed it (with fists... no way) after that... i found some xaurips to kite - with speed chant and +1 movementspeed armor (in a naked run it would be survival) i ran in a circle and could summon my phantom, tried with a 2nd group, ran in a straight line - not even 2 stacks before the fight reset (despite trying to get the attention back^^)

 

so... rolling a naked (no ironman) chanter now... i have no clue what race/stats to take

 

 

and damn you for taking the druid, that would be the class i would try it with^^

Edited March 19, 2016 by Reent

[Harpagornis]

Race: Moon Godlike is king for me. The healing is a lifesaver.

 

Stats: The BIG question is which stat can you drop? Dex or better Res?

Int max is a nobrainer, Per will be nice, Might too. With Moon Godlike Con can is okay at base i hope.

 

Yeah, Druids are great! Monks would be much faster at killing but i like the versatility of the Druid.

[Reent]

i need high int for the linger duration of the speed chant (speed chant->damage chant... too much damage not to use it)... i need dex so i dont get long recovery (about 1 sec of no phantom vs maybe 3 secs without phantom)

 

i was thinking about a max res, con and dex build - but i dont know how i would get past chaed nua that way...

 

and jeah, moon godlike is a given, the moment i opened the char creation screen i picked it...

[Harpagornis]

Maxing Res? I would leave it at 10 or even drop it - at least for Druid. Later on most enemies will hit you anyway without items. High Int will be key i think. Hhmmm.. so many options!

 

Noober survived with Res 3 but - okay - he had summons and good old bear all day long.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Harpagornis

[rheingold]

Only real weakness for a druid is their accuracy and casting speed are not great. Otherwise they work fine. So maybe id look at perception and dexterity?

[Reent]

res is about concentration - not about defense... if you get interrupted while running and the melees get to you - disengages can kill you...

and interrupted while casting is bad too - sure its not such a problem with high dex (thats why i have 3 res now)

 

got to gilded vale - no problems up to now, moongodlike is just too strong early