Soulbound Weapons

[kvaak]

The penalty of severing the weapon is that it reverts to how it was when you found it and all the time you spent levelling it up was wasted.

 

I.E. you're no worse off than you were before finding or binding the weapon. Also, Grey Sleeper.

[Brimsurfer]

 

And how the hell am I able to bind a weapon to my soul right then and there and then sever the bond whenever I want without suffering any penalties that may or may not go away........

 

The penalty of severing the weapon is that it reverts to how it was when you found it and all the time you spent levelling it up was wasted.

 

 

Yea but what about my soul, how can it withstand the severing without any cost.........

Edited March 1, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[AndreaColombo]

You'd like a penalty for severing the bond on top of their not being universal? You really want soulbound weapons to be bad.

 

Unique weapons can achieve the highest DPS in the game and there are many with great on-hit or on-crit effects. You don't see many builds around here that use soulbound weapons versus unique weapons--how can that be if soulbound weapons are so much more powerful and convenient?

 

The one variant of my DPS build that uses a soulbound weapon is the one with the lowest DPS despite its having the highest MIG score attainable in the game without cheating.

[kvaak]

You'd like a penalty for severing the bond on top of their not being universal? You really want soulbound weapons to be bad.

 

Unique weapons can achieve the highest DPS in the game and there are many with great on-hit or on-crit effects. You don't see many builds around here that use soulbound weapons versus unique weapons--how can that be if soulbound weapons are so much more powerful and convenient?

 

The one variant of my DPS build that uses a soulbound weapon is the one with the lowest DPS despite its having the highest MIG score attainable in the game without cheating.

 

Because I have no interest in looking up minmaxed builds for a game that doesn't provide sufficient challenge for them even with difficulty ramped up to eleven. I'm currently running PotD with 35% exp penalty and at times even that doesn't feel sufficient but I'm not increasing it until the significantly increased exp requirements past the first couple of levels kick in.

 

My smartbarian utterly mutilated everything either through Grey Sleeper's direct damage, constant twin stones or paralysis procs. Good enough for me especially considering you can grab and fully unlock it as soon as act 2 starts.

[Livegood118]

brindle .............. is that you?

Edited March 1, 2016 by Livegood118

[Brimsurfer]

You'd like a penalty for severing the bond on top of their not being universal? You really want soulbound weapons to be bad.

 

Unique weapons can achieve the highest DPS in the game and there are many with great on-hit or on-crit effects. You don't see many builds around here that use soulbound weapons versus unique weapons--how can that be if soulbound weapons are so much more powerful and convenient?

 

The one variant of my DPS build that uses a soulbound weapon is the one with the lowest DPS despite its having the highest MIG score attainable in the game without cheating.

 

Wrong absolutely wrong......you are only looking at the attack and damage numbers (even though they are not so different) and you are completely ignoring the massive edge soulbound weapon procs and spells provide, which make soulbound weapons overall better, not to mention they provide much greater utility and you can build your party around the soulbound weapon procs and the spells they provide......

 

And BTW there is a massive cost associated with making your unique weapon numbers comparable to soulbound weapons as you have to enchant those weapons with, quite hard to come by ingredients, as the game has very limited ingredients available for superb and legendary enchantments and you have to kill quite hard enemies to obtain them and then you have to make a decision as to which weapon you want to upgrade.........

 

With soulbound weapons you get full grand mastery right from the point when you pick them up, on the account of your skill in what may be an entirely different weapon class (which is entirely ludicrous, how the hell does my excellent skill with wands, make me an excellent war hammer wielder?) and it takes may be less than an hour, even 15 mins in cases of some items, to fully unlock the spells.  

 

This is so un-cRPG like, cRPGs like BG or PST would never have given us full mastery of best weapons in the game without any cost.........

Edited March 2, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[peko]

Yea but what about my soul, how can it withstand the severing without any cost.........

 

 

I'm going to say that the severing of a soulbind isn't too bad, you obviously suffer no ill effect from it. Do you have any lore or in game reason to believe I'm wrong?

[DreamWayfarer]

With soulbound weapons you get full grand mastery right from the point when you pick them up, on the account of your skill in what may be an entirely different weapon class (which is entirely ludicrous, how the hell does my excellent skill with wands, make me an excellent war hammer wielder?) and it takes may be less than an hour, even 15 mins in cases of some items, to fully unlock the spells.

 

The same weapon focus gives you mastery over flails, estocs and wands. Honestly, it wouldn't shatter my suspension of disbelief even more if it applied to a greatsword or mace bound to my character's soul.

[Brimsurfer]

 

With soulbound weapons you get full grand mastery right from the point when you pick them up, on the account of your skill in what may be an entirely different weapon class (which is entirely ludicrous, how the hell does my excellent skill with wands, make me an excellent war hammer wielder?) and it takes may be less than an hour, even 15 mins in cases of some items, to fully unlock the spells.

The same weapon focus gives you mastery over flails, estocs and wands. Honestly, it wouldn't shatter my suspension of disbelief even more if it applied to a greatsword or mace bound to my character's soul.

 

 

Yea because these weapons are popular among a certain profession, and that would be Adventurers, they all fall under Adventurer's Weapon Group and a player has to spend a talent point to achieve mastery of this weapon group, however, with Soulbound Weapons you do not have to spend talent points in the corresponding Weapon Group Focus Talent but you still get full grand mastery  based on your skill in an entirely different Weapon Group. e.g. if you have the Weapon Focus in Adventurers Weapons Group and if you try to use a Soulbound Weapon from Noble Weapons Group , say e.g. a Scepter or a Mace, you do not have to spend any talent point in Noble Weapons Focus to master the weapon instead you will automatically get the bonuses in using that Soulbound Mace on the basis of your mastery in Adventurers' Weapon Group.....................this makes Weapon Focus Talents more or less useless as this mechanics defeat the purpose of having Weapon Focus Talents and gives away free mastery of some of the strongest weapons in the game, its probably the cheesiest mechanics I have seen in any cRPG.....

 

But this is all mentioned in the original post of this topic, did you read it?

Edited March 2, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Valorian]

This doesn't bother me too much, but I understand the desire for soulbound weapons to not ignore weapon focus rules just because they're bound to specific classes. It's just one of many details.

Other details, such as shooters (bows, xbows, guns) not suffering any deflection and accuracy penalty when attacking in melee, do bother me. Being able to damage enemies from far away is a big advantage and this would be a reasonable downside. An inherent penalty for dual wielding unless you have the DW talent would be also lovely, but unlike the previous detail this one is more about my personal RP/verisimilitude visions.

 

[Rosbjerg]

 

I am excellent with wands, how the hell does that make me excellent with war hammers the moment I pick them, soulbound or not?

 

It should work like, I picked up a war hammer, bind it to my soul and now I should work to make myself skilled at its use because I am bound to the damn thing, i shouldn't become grandmaster of war hammers right away, I have never used one before in my life........

In your life.... But what about your soul's life? Or the hammer's experience. This is basically magic and soul magic at that. While a silly argument, I'm not seeing it as so completly out of character for the setting.

[Brimsurfer]

 

 

I am excellent with wands, how the hell does that make me excellent with war hammers the moment I pick them, soulbound or not?

 

It should work like, I picked up a war hammer, bind it to my soul and now I should work to make myself skilled at its use because I am bound to the damn thing, i shouldn't become grandmaster of war hammers right away, I have never used one before in my life........

In your life.... But what about your soul's life? Or the hammer's experience. This is basically magic and soul magic at that. While a silly argument, I'm not seeing it as so completly out of character for the setting.

 

 

It is out of the setting and not well thought about..............I made a post in this topic a yesterday, that specifically talks about what you said, you might have to scroll up a bit

[DreamWayfarer]

It is out of the setting and not well thought about..............I made a post in this topic a yesterday, that specifically talks about what you said, you might have to scroll up a bit

Maybe the weapon takes "imprints" of the souls of its former owners, so you end up getting some of their knowledge of how to wield it as well? It fits with what we know.

[Brimsurfer]

 

It is out of the setting and not well thought about..............I made a post in this topic a yesterday, that specifically talks about what you said, you might have to scroll up a bit

Maybe the weapon takes "imprints" of the souls of its former owners, so you end up getting some of their knowledge of how to wield it as well? It fits with what we know.

 

May be it fits with what 'You" know 

 

Its a weapon its not the extension of your soul, its not ethereal, its metal and wood and its material. These items are specially enchanted so that they become bound to the user as he uses them more, they don't make us Godlike out of the blue..........because if they did then, you wouldn't need any kind of weapon focus to get additional mastery bonuses.....because if you don't have any weapon focus talent then you don't get the additional mastery bonus with soulbound weapons. 

 

Also because if what you are saying is true and these soulbound items are part of our soul then why do we incur 40% armor penalty from that Soulbound Breastplate? Items should become less effective then when you get injured or fatigued and they should become more powerful when you are rested and should completely dissolve when you die......but that's just silly isn't it? Because what you are saying is not true, these items are not part of your ethereal soul, they are just bound to the user.......

 

I am not against Soulbound items, I love them, its a great mechanics that Obsidian introduced in this game but it needs to be refined.........dont make it cheesy, let it follow rules, don't make it ignore the rules, let it be hardcore............... 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[house2fly]

What's the damn LORE for these weapons??

[Brimsurfer]

What's the damn LORE for these weapons??

Its what I said, material weapons that bond with the user, but must require skill and training in the corresponding weapons group, since they are extrinsic inorganic objects..........

 

Some people are mistaking them to be intrinsic ethereal extensions of ones soul, like Cipher's 'Reaping Knives' ability, so that a character doesn't need any external training to be proficient with them, but that's not true in case of Soulbound items, they should require training in the corresponding weapons group for additional accuracy and damage bonuses and must not receive deity blessing bonuses if they are not the favoured weapons. 

 

Right now a priest of Magran can wield a soulbound mace and recieve benefits of Magran's Inspiring Flame blessing (or whatever its called) it provides passive +10 Acc to Swords and Arquebus only, Magran doesn't favour mace, that's Eothas weapon iirc, but still a Priest of Magran with Inspiring Flame can wield a soulbound mace with the bonuses that are only valid for a sword or arquebus.......its very un-cRPG like.......

Edited March 4, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[peko]

 

What's the damn LORE for these weapons??

Its what I said, material weapons that bond with the user, but must require skill and training in the corresponding weapons group, since they are extrinsic inorganic objects..........

 

Sorry, you don't get to decide what the lore is and isn't. Obviously that requirement doesn't exist and there's nothing in the known lore that says it has to exist. Why it doesn't exist is unknown from a lore standpoint.

 

Some people are mistaking them to be intrinsic ethereal extensions of ones soul, like Cipher's 'Reaping Knives' ability, so that a character doesn't need any external training to be proficient with them, but that's not true in case of Soulbound items, they should require training in the corresponding weapons group for additional accuracy and damage bonuses and must not receive deity blessing bonuses if they are not the favoured weapons.

No one else said that, the only mention of soulbound items being ethereal is in your strawman from a few posts ago.

[DreamWayfarer]

Yes, I don't know where you got that from, brimsurfer. What people are arguing is not that the weapon is a physical manifestation of your soul, but that you and the weapon "share" your souls while bonded.

 

And I don't think it has anything to do with them being enchanted to do so, most of the time. On the soulbound items I read the description of, it seens the enchantment developed naturaly, maybe as the item gained splinters and imorints of its wielders souls through history.

 

If you need a reason for why you simply don't get the bonus without any weapon foci, remember that many weapons share some principles behind their use. Having knowkedge on some of those orinciples may make it easier to unlock the knowledge absorbed by the weapon.

 

And I don't see how the recovery penalty on a soulbound armor applies to this discussion, as it is a completely different thing. No soulbound weapon strikes as fast as fists or benefits from novice's suffering, so I don't see why soulbound armor should make you as fast as if you were naked.

Edited March 4, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[Brimsurfer]

 

 

What's the damn LORE for these weapons??

Its what I said, material weapons that bond with the user, but must require skill and training in the corresponding weapons group, since they are extrinsic inorganic objects..........

 

Sorry, you don't get to decide what the lore is and isn't. Obviously that requirement doesn't exist and there's nothing in the known lore that says it has to exist. Why it doesn't exist is unknown from a lore standpoint.

 

Some people are mistaking them to be intrinsic ethereal extensions of ones soul, like Cipher's 'Reaping Knives' ability, so that a character doesn't need any external training to be proficient with them, but that's not true in case of Soulbound items, they should require training in the corresponding weapons group for additional accuracy and damage bonuses and must not receive deity blessing bonuses if they are not the favoured weapons.

No one else said that, the only mention of soulbound items being ethereal is in your strawman from a few posts ago.

 

 

 

Actually I do get to decide or at least contribute in deciding which way the lore should go, because I bought this game and put in hundreds of hours in it, I do hold a stake in which way this franchise goes and I only said what makes sense......do not make a whole item class ignore the rules, don't make it cheesy......

 

If you scroll up you will find that a couple of people did actually assume that Soulbound weapons become part of one's soul so no mastery should be required and thats why I said what i said......because currently the way its working, is just stupid......what's the point of Weapon Focus Talent then, lets just remove it then altogether........

 

How come Magran's blessing bonus work with Soulbound maces, war hammers or scepters? She only favours sword and arquebus, same goes for other deities, what's the point of deities favouring specific weapons then, lets just remove deities weapon blessings too?

 

You talk about lore, the way they implemented Soulbound items, they are already destroying the lore, as they allowed these top class weapons in the game to ignore some of the main concepts of the game and lore........but they knew what they were doing, thats what I believe.....soulbound items bring in good mechanics ........................ but I believe, to really sell this concept to the players, they involved some cheesiness in the mechanics and made these items universal recipients of any kind of accuracy and damage bonus possessed by the wielder of the weapon, whether it made sense or not......

 

The same way people became accustomed to cheesy OPness of Fighters in older versions, some are still sour about the Fighter balancing, same way many are loving the free unruly bonuses with their Soulbound weapons and I am pretty sure they will fight with teeth and nails to keep the game easy for them.....and boast about their min/max builds and Godlike PoTD performances......

Edited March 4, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[AndreaColombo]

Fighters were OP and got a nerf? I must have missed that.

 

Again, how many min/max builds do you know whose main weapon is soulbound?

 

Personally I only use them situationally (e.g. St Ydwen's Redeemer against Vessels) and doing without them wouldn't change my power level much. Likewise removing an Accuracy bonus from them (I would sooner ditch those weapons altogether than indulge in inefficient character building and take two different Focus talents for their sake.)

 

I still disagree with your assessment of souls and their role in the world of Eora but there isn't much that can be done about that.

[Brimsurfer]

Fighters were OP and got a nerf? I must have missed that.

 

Again, how many min/max builds do you know whose main weapon is soulbound?

 

Personally I only use them situationally (e.g. St Ydwen's Redeemer against Vessels) and doing without them wouldn't change my power level much. Likewise removing an Accuracy bonus from them (I would sooner ditch those weapons altogether than indulge in inefficient character building and take two different Focus talents for their sake.)

 

I still disagree with your assessment of souls and their role in the world of Eora but there isn't much that can be done about that.

 

You keep referring to unique weapons as some of the best in the game, i don't entirely disagree with you, but you dont see the fact that they cost an arm and a leg to achieve that power.......superb and legendary materials are very limited in the game and you have to defeat some of the hardest enemies in the game for those materials (not to mention these enemies are unbeatable in the first half of the game at least, so it takes time to acquire these materials)......and you can't just upgrade any unique item to that power, you have to think on it and make a decision, because there just aren't enough ingredients......and also the biggest fact that, THESE UNIQUE ITEMS THEY DON'T IGNORE THE RULES!!! ............ that's the real problem that I have issue with when it comes to Soulbound weapons......Unique weapons don't ignore the rules, you have to take weapon focus talent in the corresponding weapon group to get specialising bonuses, and they follow the deity blessing rules too........

 

Soulbound weapons break all the rules as somehow they are universal items that receive all and any kind of accuracy and damage bonuses you character has, right off the bat as soon as you pick them, there is no talent that governs their effectiveness in the game, they completely transcend all the rules of weapons training and proficiency, and somehow manage to fool the Deities even and get their blessings too........

Edited March 4, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[AndreaColombo]

Some unique items already come with the Superb enchant, though, and you don't have to abide by specific requirements for it. Ingredients for the other enchants aren't hard to come by; I always end up having a lot more than I need without even trying. To be honest, the cost of enchanting isn't that steep. Yes you need think over which items to upgrade, but once you decide you're going to stick to them--same thing with soulbound weapons: you choose one, commit to it and unlock it.

 

Besides, unique weapons can be given to anyone at any time; soulbound weapons only bind to specific classes and, once bound to a character, are only usable by that character until you severe the bond. If you do, you lose all progress and must go through the tedious drudgery again (usually not worth it.)

 

I think that's steeper than the cost of applying a lash that gives you +25% of the total damage dealt per swing as extra DPS, or refining with Durgan steel and getting more speed, more crit chance, and more crit damage.

 

Sure, you could make them non-universal, but then what? Nobody would use them anymore?

Edited March 4, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Brimsurfer]

Some unique items already come with the Superb enchant, though, and you don't have to abide by specific requirements for it. Ingredients for the other enchants aren't hard to come by; I always end up having a lot more than I need without even trying. To be honest, the cost of enchanting isn't that steep. Yes you need think over which items to upgrade, but once you decide you're going to stick to them--same thing with soulbound weapons: you choose one, commit to it and unlock it.

 

Besides, unique weapons can be given to anyone at any time; soulbound weapons only bind to specific classes and, once bound to a character, are only usable by that character until you severe the bond. If you do, you lose all progress and must go through the tedious drudgery again (usually not worth it.)

 

I think that's steeper than the cost of applying a lash that gives you +25% of the total damage dealt per swing as extra DPS, or refining with Durgan steel and getting more speed, more crit chance, and more crit damage.

 

Sure, you could make them non-universal, but then what? Nobody would use them anymore?

 

 

Everyone would still use Soulbound Weapons if they weren't universal, even now many don't even know that Soulbound Items receive bonuses universally without any threshold and they still use them......and you completely discount the utility of soulbound items, the spells and procs they provide, give player a huge edge, a single weapon may have only 5% to 10% chance to proc an effect but six of them swinging at the same time (with dual wield could be more)......there is always some kind of special effect proc'ing decimating your enemy buffing your characters......but that's not the issue here and I have no problems with it, except that you keep changing theme of the topic and always swing the discussion into this direction.......

 

The reason I started this topic is mentioned in the first post and that is that, I find it unfair that Soulbound weapons do not follow the rules of the game, there is absolutely no reason that they should be universal items and there is no reason why they receive a deity's boon for which their type doesn't qualify.....and many agreed that this is quite cheesy but few who disagreed keep posting repeating the same things over and over again.....so I have to keep responding with what I have already said before in the topic.......

Edited March 4, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[house2fly]

I'm scanning through this extended meltdown to see if he has used the word "magic" pejoratively. Like "I guess this sword just MAGICALLY gets the same bonus that applies to arquebuses??" I don't think he does...

[AndreaColombo]

edit: nvm.

Edited March 4, 2016 by AndreaColombo