Sites of Creation - Sun in Shadow

[boffmoffet]

I have a question for fellow lore nerds in the community, but  first let me share the assumptions I am making in asking my question.

 

Perhaps I am wrong but I got the impression from the game that the final location, Sun in Shadow, was the site in which the ancient Engwithan citizens (perhaps all wronged or disposed nobles, given the god) gave their souls to create Woedica. Woedica being a "god" perhaps in representing a particular sentiment or ideal that all who gave their souls shared. Perhaps it was the design of the place that ensured the nature of the intelligence or "god" being created.

 

I guess my question is this, do you believe this location was where Woedica was created, or all the other gods? Or is this simply a location where followers of Woedica commune and empower their god with souls? 

 

I do not get the impression that the Engwithan society was spread far out of the Dyrwood region, so either all their gods (whose reach encompasses all of currently explored Eora) were created in Sun in Shadow or there are 10 other creation sites within this small region.

 

Anyone else interested in this or have an opinion?

 

 

[house2fly]

That is interesting; I assumed it was where they made Woedica specifcally since there's only her iconography on the burial isle.  Maybe the White Forge is a similar kind of place and each one is filled with that god's iconogaphy.  I've thought that a good story for a sequel would be a quest to find Eothas's version of Sun In Shadow and remake him.

[anameforobsidian]

I always read it as all the Gods were created in Sun in Shadow.  But I think the Woedica only idea has some merits.  It would have been possible for the Engwithans to make more gods as they went on a global crusade.  It is implied that Thaos traveled far and wide on his (and your) crusade to see the gods spread.  It's not uncommon for aggressive polytheistic cultures to engage in syncretism as a way to legitimize their rule over the conquered.  That doesn't sound very Engwithan, but who knows?

[PrimeJunta]

Huh, good question. I always assumed it was the place where they made all the gods, as the machinery involved was so bleeping huge and clearly reusable so I thought it wouldn't have made sense to build it more than once. Also Thaos of the flashbacks was a missionary for all the gods, even if he personally served Woedica. I thought the trouble with Eothas and Magran was a new development and the gods weren't originally intended to be antagonistic to each other even though they performed different and sometimes opposing functions.

 

I wonder what originally got Woedica dethroned though? Could that have brought on the collapse of the Engwithan civilisation?

[Infinitron]

Thaos says that each god has their own temple like this one, with the implication that each was manufactured in their own.

[house2fly]

I wonder what originally got Woedica dethroned though? Could that have brought on the collapse of the Engwithan civilisation?

The Engwithan civilisation didn't collapse, it sacrificed itself to create the gods. How Woedica got dethroned could be an interesting story though.

[boffmoffet]

That is interesting; I assumed it was where they made Woedica specifcally since there's only her iconography on the burial isle.  Maybe the White Forge is a similar kind of place and each one is filled with that god's iconogaphy.  I've thought that a good story for a sequel would be a quest to find Eothas's version of Sun In Shadow and remake him.

 

Good observation on the iconography. I doubt the place of creation for all the gods would have all Woedica iconography, especially the giant statue at the top of burial isle where you enter. But once your down their, the structure seems so massive it could house or lead to other chambers similar to Sun in Shadow. Remember the way you had to enter the temple was with the blessing of a god, and the fall you make seemed unnatural, with my PC able to control his body by will alone (resolve checks) on your way down.

 

Sun in Shadow might not even be in Eora, but a pocket plane that reflects and is shaped by the nature of the god residing there, entered from several locations all linked. This might be guessing at bit more D&D cosmology than Eora tends to share, but remember you send some Snow Elves into Rymrgand's snowy, entropic realm. Rymrdand's Realm show us that these "gods" may actually make and reside in pocket plane "afterlife sanctuary" for their followers. This seems like a shaky theory however, because Thaos and the PC use a different entrance within Teir Evron, which lead to the Council of the Stars, where mortals commune with most of the gods.

 

Then there is the fact that Sun in Shadow was also a soul prison. Woedica is The Exiled Queen, The Queen That Was, perhaps Sun in Shadow was built by the Engwithans at the direction of other gods to imprison not only the unfaithful, but the disposed Woedica herself. 

 

Edit: Thanks for sharing your good memory Infinitron! 

Edited February 15, 2016 by boffmoffet

[Infinitron]

 

The Engwithan civilisation didn't collapse, it sacrificed itself to create the gods. 

 

 

This is likely conjecture but never directly stated

[scottii]

blah, potential spoilers would have been nice.  kinda fee like i read too much. =S

[house2fly]

There's a spoiler warning on the entire subforum!

[anameforobsidian]

I wish I could get a transcript of the Thaos dialogue.  It has so many nuggets of lore, but I hate watching youtube to get it all.

[boffmoffet]

blah, potential spoilers would have been nice.  kinda fee like i read too much. =S

Sorry bud did not mean to spoil anything, just figured a lore post in the Story: Spoilers forum didn't need redundant warnings.

[house2fly]

I wish I could get a transcript of the Thaos dialogue. It has so many nuggets of lore, but I hate watching youtube to get it all.

go into the game's data folder and look for a folder called "localized". Find "en" for English (or another one if you have a different native language) and search for the "burial isle" folder. There'll be files in there called "thaos" and "Thaos 2" and you can open them using Notepad. They contain every line he has in the final confrontation and your companions' responses to him. Expansion companions will have their dialogue in a separate folder.

[scottii]

 

blah, potential spoilers would have been nice.  kinda fee like i read too much. =S

Sorry bud did not mean to spoil anything, just figured a lore post in the Story: Spoilers forum didn't need redundant warnings.

 

hahha, man i feel like a newb.  had just woke up when posting that.  ya sorry about that bud.

[Harry Easter]

Huh, interesting idea. I also thought, that the whole pantheon was created there and that every Engwithian alive (or at least at the side) gave their life for creating the gods. But if Infinitron is right, it would make more sense. But I don't think, that Woedica was trapped there. It was just her birthplace, where she got her powers and Thaos wanted to repeat the success of the first time. 

 

And after the creation Thaos founded the inquisition,so everyone knew, that there were only these gods and no other. Kudos for them, that they were already very powerful from the beginning.  

 

But I woud really like to know, if there still exist other gods, or if the actual pantheon did consume every existing god of the world, so that they are really the lords of existence.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Harry Easter

[boffmoffet]

I got the sense, or rather I should say I interpreted it as, The world in its infancy had many gods and was rather chaotic. Human sacrifices, lots of war, everything rather uncertain. None of these disparate faiths showed sign of legitimacy, no spiritual or soul manifestations of miracles or proof of existence. The advanced engwithans searched for such gods as the pinnacle society of the ancient world, and studied the soul enough to realize that there are no true gods, no order higher order to existence.  

 

In searching for the gods, the Engwithans had elevated their understanding of the soul to the point that they could in fact create the system of higher order they had been searching for. So in their uplifted understanding and with profound arrogance, the Engiwthans became the gods they thought the world needed. Ugh that was a long way of me saying I dont believe the Engwithan pantheon destroyed the old gods, I think the Engwithans figured out there were no gods, and made their own.

[house2fly]

Yeah, the backstory as given in the game is that the Engwithans searched for gods, didn't find any, and decided to make some. Thaos hints that the Engwithans were driven to despair when they found this out, when he talks about the prospect of life without gods and how horrible it would be.

[FlintlockJazz]

I like to think there's more to it than that.  That there is something else going on that we have yet to discover, something that would put Iovara in her place the obnoxious GMPC that she is...  Ahem, I mean, something that makes the whole thing even more interesting and complex.  Gonna chuck that wench back into the cycle whether she likes it or not...