Chilloutman Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 They have nothing to apologize for. Terrorists are not true muslims. So, 'West' is responsible for colonisation decades ago (even if it was only 3-4 states of today 'West') but muslims dont have any relation to muslim terrorists today? Mind you I dont expect any muslim to apologise, just asking A sovereign nation that did bad things decades or even centuries ago still has a duty to reconcile themselves with those acts, whether that involves actual reparations or simply observing the past with proper chagrin. Members of a religion have a duty to distance themselves clearly from those that commit atrocities in their name. Apologies are not needed, but rather condemnation. That way we would be in constant war in Europe, i think everyone was fightin everyone in some time in past here I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"
Qistina Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change...
Meshugger Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 Hmmmm http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-02/hungary-s-orban-says-germany-struck-secret-turkey-refugee-deal uhmmmm "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Qistina Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 This is a good start for you guys....learn about other people, learn about my people The world is not only the west you know...there are a lot of other peoples in the world, the world is a big place...
Meshugger Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... "Pay back" is phrase used when you're insinuating retribution with violence, which is very seldom used here on the continent since we have history of guys impaling 40 000 people just to prove a point. Your colorful language is greatly frown upon. I suggest trying to reach out by appealing to our common humanity instead. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
HoonDing Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 "I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten..." World would be much better off if countries just stuck to their own, didn't meddle with others and didn't allow others to meddle with them. Look at Edo period in Japan. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Qistina Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... "Pay back" is phrase used when you're insinuating retribution with violence, which is very seldom used here on the continent since we have history of guys impaling 40 000 people just to prove a point. Your colorful language is greatly frown upon. I suggest trying to reach out by appealing to our common humanity instead. Well, someone have to pay....usually the ones who pay are the descendants who run away from paying. The debt must be paid. What have been taken must be returned..... Edited December 2, 2015 by Qistina
HoonDing Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 Women must still pay for losing Paradise. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
BruceVC Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... Qistina I want to ask you something important I am really enjoying our chats but there are some people who are still not sure you a real person and I have my doubts still as you seem to repeat questions almost knowing for some strange reason people will react Do you use Skype ? I would like to quickly Skype you with the video option to confirm you who say you are...we can use the PM function to exchange Skype addresses I'm sorry to ask you this but the reality is there are people who troll me and I waste time debating points If you dont use Skype let me know what chat client you use but it must allow video "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Qistina Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 You guys have any idea how much have been taken from us? The cities you are living now, the streets you walk, the beautiful gardens you hang around with your lover...it is all build upon blood and eye drops of my people.... Our gold, tin, silver, minerals on my land...are all empty now...for 600 years west digging out our soil for that....and that's how you build your nation....
BruceVC Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... "Pay back" is phrase used when you're insinuating retribution with violence, which is very seldom used here on the continent since we have history of guys impaling 40 000 people just to prove a point. Your colorful language is greatly frown upon. I suggest trying to reach out by appealing to our common humanity instead. Well, someone have to pay....usually the ones who pay are the descendants who run away from paying. The debt must be paid. What have been taken must be returned..... No chance of that, what country actually enforces that type of rule And you must remember I live in country where there are some black South Africans who really expect some sort of financial payment from white people ...so its a real question "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Qistina Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... "Pay back" is phrase used when you're insinuating retribution with violence, which is very seldom used here on the continent since we have history of guys impaling 40 000 people just to prove a point. Your colorful language is greatly frown upon. I suggest trying to reach out by appealing to our common humanity instead. Well, someone have to pay....usually the ones who pay are the descendants who run away from paying. The debt must be paid. What have been taken must be returned..... No chance of that, what country actually enforces that type of rule And you must remember I live in country where there are some black South Africans who really expect some sort of financial payment from white people ...so its a real question I don't mean literally...
BruceVC Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... "Pay back" is phrase used when you're insinuating retribution with violence, which is very seldom used here on the continent since we have history of guys impaling 40 000 people just to prove a point. Your colorful language is greatly frown upon. I suggest trying to reach out by appealing to our common humanity instead. Well, someone have to pay....usually the ones who pay are the descendants who run away from paying. The debt must be paid. What have been taken must be returned..... No chance of that, what country actually enforces that type of rule And you must remember I live in country where there are some black South Africans who really expect some sort of financial payment from white people ...so its a real question I don't mean literally... No I do....people want cash payments for Apartheid "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Qistina Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I don't mean literally... No I do....people want cash payments for Apartheid Really? Well, this is a different case....the west can pay back by stop sabotaging SEA economy and stop meddling with our affairs, keep your nose at somewhere else.
BruceVC Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... Qistina I want to ask you something important I am really enjoying our chats but there are some people who are still not sure you a real person and I have my doubts still as you seem to repeat questions almost knowing for some strange reason people will react Do you use Skype ? I would like to quickly Skype you with the video option to confirm you who say you are...we can use the PM function to exchange Skype addresses I'm sorry to ask you this but the reality is there are people who troll me and I waste time debating points If you dont use Skype let me know what chat client you use but it must allow video Sorry Qistina but can you respond to this? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Blarghagh Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... Couple of things: What do you mean, get pay back? Because the Netherlands has often paid much in reparations for things done in our history. Did you study "Western" history? Because I didn't. I studied the parts that were relevant to my country because that's what they put in the history books in school. I studied part of Indonesian history because that's intertwined with dutch history. I studied part of US history because they affected WWII, which in turn affected dutch history. You mentioned the crusaders, but do you know that those crazy catholics killed the dutch for religious reasons as much as they killed muslims? Why are muslims and "the east" more deserving of recognition and reparation for that when the same thing happened to us? Your countries were seperated? My country used to be the Hasburg Netherlands until those same catholics went to war with us and now my country has become Belgium, Luxemborough, parts of Austria, parts of Germany, France. Because of religious persecution perpetrated by the catholics against the protestants. What you call the west isn't a geographical thing, it's a then-contemporary religious society that screwed us all over too. Like Chilloutman said, they screwed over Poland and the slavs. They screwed over Africa - Apartheid is a much more recent atrocity than anything that happened to your countries. Why do you think East Asia is special in this regard? Here's what I think: You want reparations because right now, the west is top dog and that grinds your and people's gears because they could have been born in a place where they were top dog. It's the same that people consider it unfair that someone is born to rich parents - it's unfair that they were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. They didn't deserve it, they just got served a better hand by history. But "someone" has to pay? For what? For life being unfair? Ask whichever God you worship to settle that score. Who has to pay who? Nobody who did or was directly affected by this stuff is even still alive. Even if there was someone who should pay, there's nobody who it should be paid to.
Meshugger Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... Qistina I want to ask you something important I am really enjoying our chats but there are some people who are still not sure you a real person and I have my doubts still as you seem to repeat questions almost knowing for some strange reason people will react Do you use Skype ? I would like to quickly Skype you with the video option to confirm you who say you are...we can use the PM function to exchange Skype addresses I'm sorry to ask you this but the reality is there are people who troll me and I waste time debating points If you dont use Skype let me know what chat client you use but it must allow video Sorry Qistina but can you respond to this? This thread is sure going places. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Elerond Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 If we compare whose people have treated most wrongly in history I want to bring Finns on table. Because before year 1000 AD we had several kingdoms in area that is now know as Finland, but then Swedes come and conquered us and forced us to convert to Christianity or die. Then they made fictional history that made Finns the bad guys of the conflict and forced every Finn to learn it and shame their forefathers actions. Then they prevented us to make trade with any other nation than Sweden. Then Danes come and take over Sweden and with them us then then Sweden take control back from Danes, then Swedes had civil war and we become part of Poland, but soon we were again part of Sweden. During their rule Swedes destroyed our culture, heritage, self worth and even that wasn't enough the made new racial study that taught that Finns were lesser race compared to Swedes and then Swedes made us fight their wars. That humiliation continued over 700 years then 1809 AD Russian Empire decided to invade us and Swedes didn't even bother to fight against them they just fled to Sweden, so we become part of Russian empire without even giving fight. But lucky us Russian empire had new young czar that had all sort of enlightenment ideas and give us autonomy and own parliament, probably mostly because he wasn't that keen to try to govern us himself. But then Russians start to regret that they gave us autonomy and started to bit by bit take it away, but lucky to us Russians interest then was taken by other matters and we changed our governance system from feudal class society to equal democratic society and started to build new peoplehood for our nation and thanks for WW1 and Bolshevik revolution we were able to declare our Independence in sixth of December 1917 AD. But then Bolshevik Russia become Soviet Union and they decided that Finland should be part of it and they invaded us, but then for lots of reason first time in Finns history we were able to prevent another nation with overwhelming force to conquer us. But because Soviet Union was winning side of WW2 we were made the bad guys again by people trying to invade our country and we were forced to pay them all their losses against us and then we were forced to become a pawn in cold war between Soviet Union and West. And now we are counted to be part of evil west that has done terrible things to other nations in past and apologize those acts, which is totally fair and all. 2
BruceVC Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 I might be over the top in my comments here, i don't mean to offense, i just want open the block in western people mind, from what i observe western people don't care...in other word "washing hands"..."it is something in the past, we all should forget it", while actually western people generally have no idea about "the past"...i doubt any of you even study SEA history...you guys have no idea about what i have shown here including in the other posts...you guys don't even know about my people, it is because we are meant to be forgotten, it is all meant to be forgotten... My point here is western people should be ready to get pay back from what happen in the past today...things that happen in the west now is the effect caused by the west yourselves in the past....it is simply the law of cause and effect. Of course you guys have nothing to do with Crusaders, EIC, VOC, Spanish Conquistador and British Imperials, but it is not about you guys, it is not about me either, it is about the reality we have to face and we can't ignore it. But you guys can make a change... Qistina I want to ask you something important I am really enjoying our chats but there are some people who are still not sure you a real person and I have my doubts still as you seem to repeat questions almost knowing for some strange reason people will react Do you use Skype ? I would like to quickly Skype you with the video option to confirm you who say you are...we can use the PM function to exchange Skype addresses I'm sorry to ask you this but the reality is there are people who troll me and I waste time debating points If you dont use Skype let me know what chat client you use but it must allow video Sorry Qistina but can you respond to this? This thread is sure going places. I know you may think this is weird but I want to be sure "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Blarghagh Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 If we compare whose people have treated most wrongly in history I want to bring Finns on table. Because before year 1000 AD we had several kingdoms in area that is now know as Finland, but then Swedes come and conquered us and forced us to convert to Christianity or die. Then they made fictional history that made Finns the bad guys of the conflict and forced every Finn to learn it and shame their forefathers actions. Then they prevented us to make trade with any other nation than Sweden. Then Danes come and take over Sweden and with them us then then Sweden take control back from Danes, then Swedes had civil war and we become part of Poland, but soon we were again part of Sweden. During their rule Swedes destroyed our culture, heritage, self worth and even that wasn't enough the made new racial study that taught that Finns were lesser race compared to Swedes and then Swedes made us fight their wars. That humiliation continued over 700 years then 1809 AD Russian Empire decided to invade us and Swedes didn't even bother to fight against them they just fled to Sweden, so we become part of Russian empire without even giving fight. But lucky us Russian empire had new young czar that had all sort of enlightenment ideas and give us autonomy and own parliament, probably mostly because he wasn't that keen to try to govern us himself. But then Russians start to regret that they gave us autonomy and started to bit by bit take it away, but lucky to us Russians interest then was taken by other matters and we changed our governance system from feudal class society to equal democratic society and started to build new peoplehood for our nation and thanks for WW1 and Bolshevik revolution we were able to declare our Independence in sixth of December 1917 AD. But then Bolshevik Russia become Soviet Union and they decided that Finland should be part of it and they invaded us, but then for lots of reason first time in Finns history we were able to prevent another nation with overwhelming force to conquer us. But because Soviet Union was winning side of WW2 we were made the bad guys again by people trying to invade our country and we were forced to pay them all their losses against us and then we were forced to become a pawn in cold war between Soviet Union and West. And now we are counted to be part of evil west that has done terrible things to other nations in past and apologize those acts, which is totally fair and all. See? It's just a case of all human beings screwing over all other human beings. Before the pope grabbed his slaves it was the pharaohs. I was going to say something like "does Egypt need to pay reparations" but... I'm now too depressed and sad for humanity to do it.
Woldan Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) And now the European Union is giving away € 3.000.000.000 tax money to Turkey which is doing underhand deals with IS. There are not enough walls in the world to bang my head against. Edited December 2, 2015 by Woldan I gazed at the dead, and for one dark moment I saw a banquet.
BruceVC Posted December 2, 2015 Author Posted December 2, 2015 And now the European Union is giving away € 3.000.000.000 tax money to Turkey which is doing underhand deals with IS. There are not enough walls in the world to bang my head against. No dude of course this makes sense ...its worth the money "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Meshugger Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 If we compare whose people have treated most wrongly in history I want to bring Finns on table. Because before year 1000 AD we had several kingdoms in area that is now know as Finland, but then Swedes come and conquered us and forced us to convert to Christianity or die. Then they made fictional history that made Finns the bad guys of the conflict and forced every Finn to learn it and shame their forefathers actions. Then they prevented us to make trade with any other nation than Sweden. Then Danes come and take over Sweden and with them us then then Sweden take control back from Danes, then Swedes had civil war and we become part of Poland, but soon we were again part of Sweden. During their rule Swedes destroyed our culture, heritage, self worth and even that wasn't enough the made new racial study that taught that Finns were lesser race compared to Swedes and then Swedes made us fight their wars. That humiliation continued over 700 years then 1809 AD Russian Empire decided to invade us and Swedes didn't even bother to fight against them they just fled to Sweden, so we become part of Russian empire without even giving fight. But lucky us Russian empire had new young czar that had all sort of enlightenment ideas and give us autonomy and own parliament, probably mostly because he wasn't that keen to try to govern us himself. But then Russians start to regret that they gave us autonomy and started to bit by bit take it away, but lucky to us Russians interest then was taken by other matters and we changed our governance system from feudal class society to equal democratic society and started to build new peoplehood for our nation and thanks for WW1 and Bolshevik revolution we were able to declare our Independence in sixth of December 1917 AD. But then Bolshevik Russia become Soviet Union and they decided that Finland should be part of it and they invaded us, but then for lots of reason first time in Finns history we were able to prevent another nation with overwhelming force to conquer us. But because Soviet Union was winning side of WW2 we were made the bad guys again by people trying to invade our country and we were forced to pay them all their losses against us and then we were forced to become a pawn in cold war between Soviet Union and West. And now we are counted to be part of evil west that has done terrible things to other nations in past and apologize those acts, which is totally fair and all. If we Finns weren't able to defend ourselves against some sissy Swedes, it's better that we forget about it in shame. Truth to be told, we couldn't even read our own language, but the great merciful Swede called Mikael Agricola translated the Bible to us out of pity. Not to mention the Swede Johan Snellman who made the Finnish equal in terms of Swedish as language in the senate. Then the Swede Runeberg wrote the words of our national anthem and the Swede Sibelius conducted the beautiful hymn Finlandia. We could've almost have lost in WWII, but thanks to great strategies of the Swede Mannerheim as General of the armies we were led to victory. Nowadays we can always be proud of our great education system, producing great innovators in technology, such as the Swede Linus Torvalds, the founder of Linux. We are our own worst enemies and all other countries fear us from it. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Elerond Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) If we compare whose people have treated most wrongly in history I want to bring Finns on table. Because before year 1000 AD we had several kingdoms in area that is now know as Finland, but then Swedes come and conquered us and forced us to convert to Christianity or die. Then they made fictional history that made Finns the bad guys of the conflict and forced every Finn to learn it and shame their forefathers actions. Then they prevented us to make trade with any other nation than Sweden. Then Danes come and take over Sweden and with them us then then Sweden take control back from Danes, then Swedes had civil war and we become part of Poland, but soon we were again part of Sweden. During their rule Swedes destroyed our culture, heritage, self worth and even that wasn't enough the made new racial study that taught that Finns were lesser race compared to Swedes and then Swedes made us fight their wars. That humiliation continued over 700 years then 1809 AD Russian Empire decided to invade us and Swedes didn't even bother to fight against them they just fled to Sweden, so we become part of Russian empire without even giving fight. But lucky us Russian empire had new young czar that had all sort of enlightenment ideas and give us autonomy and own parliament, probably mostly because he wasn't that keen to try to govern us himself. But then Russians start to regret that they gave us autonomy and started to bit by bit take it away, but lucky to us Russians interest then was taken by other matters and we changed our governance system from feudal class society to equal democratic society and started to build new peoplehood for our nation and thanks for WW1 and Bolshevik revolution we were able to declare our Independence in sixth of December 1917 AD. But then Bolshevik Russia become Soviet Union and they decided that Finland should be part of it and they invaded us, but then for lots of reason first time in Finns history we were able to prevent another nation with overwhelming force to conquer us. But because Soviet Union was winning side of WW2 we were made the bad guys again by people trying to invade our country and we were forced to pay them all their losses against us and then we were forced to become a pawn in cold war between Soviet Union and West. And now we are counted to be part of evil west that has done terrible things to other nations in past and apologize those acts, which is totally fair and all. If we Finns weren't able to defend ourselves against some sissy Swedes, it's better that we forget about it in shame. Truth to be told, we couldn't even read our own language, but the great merciful Swede called Mikael Agricola translated the Bible to us out of pity. Not to mention the Swede Johan Snellman who made the Finnish equal in terms of Swedish as language in the senate. Then the Swede Runeberg wrote the words of our national anthem and the Swede Sibelius conducted the beautiful hymn Finlandia. We could've almost have lost in WWII, but thanks to great strategies of the Swede Mannerheim as General of the armies we were led to victory. Nowadays we can always be proud of our great education system, producing great innovators in technology, such as the Swede Linus Torvalds, the founder of Linux. We are our own worst enemies and all other countries fear us from it. You forget Elias Lönnrot who collected our mythologies and stories to Kalevala and Alexis Stenvall (better know as Aleksis Kivi) who wrote first novel in Finnish language. But all this Swedes that you speak are Finns saying something else is just pure heresy and Swedish conspiracy to undermine Finns. Edited December 2, 2015 by Elerond
Meshugger Posted December 2, 2015 Posted December 2, 2015 If we compare whose people have treated most wrongly in history I want to bring Finns on table. Because before year 1000 AD we had several kingdoms in area that is now know as Finland, but then Swedes come and conquered us and forced us to convert to Christianity or die. Then they made fictional history that made Finns the bad guys of the conflict and forced every Finn to learn it and shame their forefathers actions. Then they prevented us to make trade with any other nation than Sweden. Then Danes come and take over Sweden and with them us then then Sweden take control back from Danes, then Swedes had civil war and we become part of Poland, but soon we were again part of Sweden. During their rule Swedes destroyed our culture, heritage, self worth and even that wasn't enough the made new racial study that taught that Finns were lesser race compared to Swedes and then Swedes made us fight their wars. That humiliation continued over 700 years then 1809 AD Russian Empire decided to invade us and Swedes didn't even bother to fight against them they just fled to Sweden, so we become part of Russian empire without even giving fight. But lucky us Russian empire had new young czar that had all sort of enlightenment ideas and give us autonomy and own parliament, probably mostly because he wasn't that keen to try to govern us himself. But then Russians start to regret that they gave us autonomy and started to bit by bit take it away, but lucky to us Russians interest then was taken by other matters and we changed our governance system from feudal class society to equal democratic society and started to build new peoplehood for our nation and thanks for WW1 and Bolshevik revolution we were able to declare our Independence in sixth of December 1917 AD. But then Bolshevik Russia become Soviet Union and they decided that Finland should be part of it and they invaded us, but then for lots of reason first time in Finns history we were able to prevent another nation with overwhelming force to conquer us. But because Soviet Union was winning side of WW2 we were made the bad guys again by people trying to invade our country and we were forced to pay them all their losses against us and then we were forced to become a pawn in cold war between Soviet Union and West. And now we are counted to be part of evil west that has done terrible things to other nations in past and apologize those acts, which is totally fair and all. If we Finns weren't able to defend ourselves against some sissy Swedes, it's better that we forget about it in shame. Truth to be told, we couldn't even read our own language, but the great merciful Swede called Mikael Agricola translated the Bible to us out of pity. Not to mention the Swede Johan Snellman who made the Finnish equal in terms of Swedish as language in the senate. Then the Swede Runeberg wrote the words of our national anthem and the Swede Sibelius conducted the beautiful hymn Finlandia. We could've almost have lost in WWII, but thanks to great strategies of the Swede Mannerheim as General of the armies we were led to victory. Nowadays we can always be proud of our great education system, producing great innovators in technology, such as the Swede Linus Torvalds, the founder of Linux. We are our own worst enemies and all other countries fear us from it. You forget Elias Lönnrot who collected our mythologies and stories to Kalevala and Alexis Stenvall (better know as Alexis Kivi) who wrote first novel in Finnish language. But all this Swedes that you speak are Finns saying something else is just pure heresy and Swedish conspiracy to undermine Finns. I was merciful and i didn't want to make the butthurt even worse than what it already is. Gustaw Wasa was actually known by his peers as 'Kustavi Vaasa'. He could sharp a knife like no other and his moonshine was of legends, but the Swedes do not want to talk about that. 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
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