Nice item-ability combinations - what works and what doesn't

[Boeroer]

Hi,

 

I had an idea the other day that a nature or fire  godlike barbarian with all the "under 50% endurance" abilities/talents and Vengeful Defeat might be effective in terms of dps, but hard to manage with all the revives and so on. So i figured that I could abuse Dead Man Stands (boots) + Veteran's Recovery. These boots delay unconciousness for 3 sec. So if you drop to 0 endurance you will still stand for 3 seconds. It has no charges and works every time you hit 0 endurance. The description says it's possible to get healed in this time. So I guessed that Veteran's Recovery (that ticks every 3 seconds) would be enough to raise your endurance to 2 or 3 so that this KO-timer would get reset over and over and you would basically be unkillable (health loss aside). Not only that - the description of Vengeful Defeat says it triggers at 0 endurance. So I believed I found the ultimate barb-build: No resolve or constitution needed. Just make a pure glass cannon, jump into the fray and let them hit you, and when you drop to 0 endurance - *boom* - Vengeful Defeat triggers. Then Veteran's Recovery would kick in, you don't get KO'ed, you get hit and - *boom* - Vengeful Defeat. I made a barb and gave him all the items that do something special when you hit 50% endurance (basically +10 ACC and +30% dmg): Ritezzi's Thorn, a custom crafted Cladhaliath, Ryona's Buckle and so on.

 

Long story short: Doesn't work. Obviously Obsidian discovered this exploit before I did and made it so that when you hit 0 endurance with Dead Man Stands on, all your active abilities just shut down. So Veteran's Recovery will not work. Also: Vengeful defeat doesn't trigger on 0 endurance, but on unconciousness when you drop on the floor. The damage of Vengeful Defeat then is absolutely crazy because of all the damage and ACC bonuses - but it's just a one hit wonder (tehehe).  

 

So bye-bye overpowered masochist barb build. Of course you can still use second chance items, a Paladin with Reviving Exhortation, a Priest and a chanter to revive the barb and repeat that - but it's a lot of microing and not much fun.

 

On the other hand I just made a tanky rogue with Badgradr's Barricade. I didn't think much of it and just gave it a try - but it turns out to be a fantastic build: Deflection above 100 (that makes Riposte worthwhile against mobs) and very solid dps. Not the dual-sabre kind of dps, but still very high. And he can be in the front lines too. Another good thing about him is his aburd high reflex defense above 140. Everything that targets reflex doesn't touch him most of the time. And when it does, Adept Evasion kicks in. On top of that, he has a 30% chance to reflect all ranged attacks (spells also) back to the shooter/caster (durgan refined Barricade plus Golden Scales). I just use this guy to murder spellcasters. If they use reflex-based spells they are dead. They either get beaten or kill themselves. The core of this build is the medium shield Badgradr's Barricade that casts Thrust of Tattered Veils (ToTV) on critical hit with the bash. Rogues (especially Hearth Orlan ones) can crit a lot. While the bash itself has a very low damage output, the ToTV's damage is solid. Best things about it: all the universal damage modifiers of the rogue like sneak attack, deathblows, deep wounds etc. also apply to this. Plus- and that's quite funny - Penetrating Shot works with it. At first I thought that's stupid. But now I think that's quite good: you can activate Penetrating Shot, which gives +5DR bypass to ToTV, but it doesn't slow you down because you're in melee. It's a bit expensive to get +5 DR bypass just for your left handed crits - but on the other hand it has no downside (besides losing a skillpoint). I combined this shield with sabers first - but when I got the Forgotten Tear of the Beloved flail (and later a durgan refined Starcaller) I retrained for flails and also used One-Handed Style. That way you have a 60% (80% on Starcaller) graze-to-hit conversion. You will almost never do a graze which is quite ok for dps against high deflection foes. ANd the Starcaller itself is awesome with the spell striking and stunning. But any good one-handed weapon will do. The Vile Loner's Lance for example is also a nice item with -5 defl. on hit, making it even more likely to crit with the bash to trigger ToTV. 

 

So, which nice combinations did you discover? Which worked as you expected and which didn't?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Boeroer

[Harpagornis]

Very cool ideas Boeroer. Its always amazing too see what is possible - or not. I must admit that - till now - i havent cared much about items as my druid works quite well even without crazy stuff. But maybe i will give it a run in the next time thanks to your inspiration.

 

BtW: You mentioned the idea of a great druid-tank in another thread. Could you explain this in a bit more detail? Are there also some insane item combinations involved?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Harpagornis

[mosspit]

Very nice find Boercer Although I'm not good and creative enough to come out with new combination, it is always fun to experience these kind of synergies. I flirted with the idea of the micro heavy Vengeful Death Barb though, trying to see how I can make the Barb useful for boss-type encounters. If I go ahead with it, the playthrough with the Barb is going to be very different I feel.

 

Btw you and I know that this will be patched out eventually right ?

[Boeroer]

Man - I just wrote a whole lot of text about druids, ciphers and monks - and then my browser crashed all of a sudden.

 

All work for nothing dammit!

 

Now I have no time to write it all again. I will do it later. All I can say: the ideas concerning druids were interesting but not overpowered. Basically an unarmed druid "monkstyle" with Sandals of the Forgotten Friar and Novice's Suffering and another druid who's quite tanky. With blights for more tanking (immunities) and  focus on corrode damage (Bittercut plus corrosive lash plus Black Santuary plus Spirit of Decay and so on).

 

But I just discovered and tested a cipher build that is abolutely awesome. It just an improvement to an existing melee retaliation build, but a great one. I just say these things as a teaser: 6(!) times retaliation (3 of them generating focus) for hundrets of focus in seconds... plus Combusting Wounds for the win. ) This one is really overpowered. I don't know where to put all the focus... Stay tuned!

 

And my autoattacker dualist monk on speed "Fulmineo Prondroni" is refined and polished now. Lots of fun, very effective.

 

Maaan... stupid browser! 

[aweigh0101]

How exactly do the DMS boots work? Do they delay falling to the floor once you reach 0 endurance or do they stand you back up for 3 seconds after you fall to the floor, like a 3-second-second-chance?

Second question, do they cancel out second chance?

[AndreaColombo]

Fulmineo Prondroni, eh?

 

Very interested in the Cipher build. I usually play ranged Ciphers (and usually have more focus than I can spend as my Cipher micro is about as abysmal as my SCII APM) but that might as well change.

 

...aand now I'm toying with the idea of a dual-wielding Fighter with Bittercut because Spirit of Decay. Or maybe I'll do a Rogue. Decisions, decisions...

[Boeroer]

It seems that Spirit of Decay doesn't work for Bittercut's base corrode damage, but I may be mistaken. I will have to test this again. I thought that Scion of Flame worked for Firebrand, or didn't it?

 

Will post separate topics with the detailed builds of the melee cipher "The Backlash Beldam" and monk "Fulmineo Prondroni" and put the links here. Don't want to spam this thread too much. I would love to hear some nice tricks from the other rulebenders here. Doesn't need to be overpowered - I also like very stylish and fun to play builds or combinations. That's why Fulmineo is not moon godlike and wears the dandy hat of the diseased yak. Godlikes can't wear cool hats!

[aweigh0101]

One really cheesy thing you can do when using a melee cipher is to start off by shooting your laser-beam "Antipathetic Beam", the very first one you get, and quickly engage the enemy in melee. Oh, this is with Retaliation gear equipped, be it Garohd's Helm, Hiro's Mantle or that one unique shield you get somewhere.

Grab the Utility Talent that gives extra Corrode damage to enhance the beam and you'll be doing tons of 1v1 damage on any enemy you engage. With pumped Intellect the beam'll stay on for quite a while, enough to do 50 damage or more all while you're hacking away at the enemy and Retaliating. Works great with the Retaliation shield + W&S-Style + the Draining Sabre.

It's super cheesy though... also it's really funny when your companions glitch out pathfinding and run through your beam before you get a good lock on the enemy haha.

The retaliation thing is to build focus btw.

[Boeroer]

Yeah - I use that tactic too. But I added a small detail for extra... "Oompf".  Got 160 Focus (=max) in under 2 seconds last time. 

And Fulmineo Prondroni is our best buddy for your Ectopsychic Echo: +6 Move Speed and Falgellanth's Path is just perfect for this.

Did you know that Antipathetic Field also boosts your Ectopsychic Echo's Damage? All beam damage gets +20% as long as the Antipathetic Field is up. 

 

Aaand the Badgradr's Barricade build also works great with a spellsword wizard (Eldritch Aim and Merciless Gaze for the crits). When you get Alacrity per encounter it gets totally crazy.

Doesn't crit that much when not buffed and lacks the dps of deathblows and so on. But you are even more tanky and you can cast fat (debuff) spells, so...

A priest with self buffing also works, but rogue and wizard are more fun.

 

I also figured that a melee ranger with this shield might be great. With all his +acc talents/abilites he will crit quite often and he has a mate for flanking. Use Drawn in Spring to apply the wounding dot effect for your wolf's Predators Sense. The two of you will be a great "tank, flank and spank" team with lots of Deflection and great dps. Also good: melee rangers don't need too many skills - rest makes your animal companion happy. Will test that as well... 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

It seems that Spirit of Decay doesn't work for Bittercut's base corrode damage, but I may be mistaken. I will have to test this again.

 

If that is that case, I would flag it as a bug.

[Boeroer]

 

It seems that Spirit of Decay doesn't work for Bittercut's base corrode damage, but I may be mistaken. I will have to test this again.

 

If that is that case, I would flag it as a bug.

 

Of course - but I'm not 100% sure it doesn't work.

[Boeroer]

Dead Man Stands works this (stupid) way: when your char reaches 0 endurance you don't fall down but keep standing. But you can't select the char anymore as if he were unconcious. I think when you have AI on he keeps attacking but I'm not sure. Sad thing is you can't do anything in this 3 seconds since you can't select him anymore. Direct healing spells like Lay on Hands also don't work because you can't target the guy. Maybe Aoe healing works, didn't test.

After 3 seconds you fall to the ground. Then it's like always: second chance will be activated after you drop. So does Vengeful Defeat. I think Unbroken triggers before you fall - but that doesn't matter since it would trigger with or without the boots. 

Could have been nice boots - atm they are just even more caustic than bilestompers.

[Boeroer]

@Andrea:
Also: the damage of Bittercut plus corrosive lash is not considered as one source but two - as if you had a lash on a slashing sabre. It says "30 corrode + 7,5 corrode". I also think you have to bypass the corrode DR two times (100% and 25%) which is stupid. That sometimes leads to another stupidity: the game will use the slash damage instead of corrode if the corrode DR is (even slightly) higher than the slash DR. So either Spirit of Decay doesn't work or the game doesn't calculate the +20% bonus when diciding which damage type to use. A little bit bugged at the moment. Best would be: add Bittercut's corrosive base damage and the lash (=125% base damage), then *1.20  because of Spirit of Decay. Same with Firebrand and burning lash (from chanter) plus Scion of Flame. Stupid lash mechanics...

[AndreaColombo]

The lash might be intended to make Bittercut on par with other weapons when it comes to enchanting it. It's already a better sabre than most because of its Slash/Corrode damage; if the lash increased its damage to 125%, it would give it perhaps too much of an edge as it wouldn't have to go against DR twice. Slash/Corrode also works as you described: It applies the damage against which your enemy is the least resistant, regardless of whether you have a higher damage output in Slash or Corrode. That was never factored in; only the enemy's DR is (appreciate that it would be cool if the algorithm was advanced enough to calculate which damage type would net you the highest DPS.)

 

BUT ... if Spirit of Decay is not applying to its Corrode base damage, we need to write up a bug report. I can do that if you want; let me know

[Elric Galad]

Do you know if stormcaller is the same as bittercut for elemental talent ?

[Boeroer]

No I don't. Good question. Maybe it's the same problem. I may do some tests tomorrow. 

[Boeroer]

Ok, regarding my cipher build and the skill/item combos that I mentioned: 
 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83186-class-build-the-backlash-beldam-melee-multiretaliation-cipher-tank/

Edited November 17, 2015 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

The lash might be intended to make Bittercut on par with other weapons when it comes to enchanting it. It's already a better sabre than most because of its Slash/Corrode damage; if the lash increased its damage to 125%, it would give it perhaps too much of an edge as it wouldn't have to go against DR twice. Slash/Corrode also works as you described: It applies the damage against which your enemy is the least resistant, regardless of whether you have a higher damage output in Slash or Corrode. That was never factored in; only the enemy's DR is (appreciate that it would be cool if the algorithm was advanced enough to calculate which damage type would net you the highest DPS.)

 

BUT ... if Spirit of Decay is not applying to its Corrode base damage, we need to write up a bug report. I can do that if you want; let me know

Ok, come on - do it, do it!

[aweigh0101]

i've been trying like crazy to find a good use for the DMS boots but maaaan they kind of suck!

The most you can hope for is one of the following:

1) Your character performs 1 more/last Attack. This is sorta cool. Basically one free attack that cannot be interrupted by ANYTHING, be it friend or foe, before falling unconscious and triggering second chance or unbroken.

2) IF and only IF the character wearing the boots was in the process of actually casting a spell when he receives the deathblow then he will finish it, and then fall unconscious. It's pretty iffy though.

Honestly these boots are kind of useless. Max Endurance Bonus boots would be better lol

[Boeroer]

Yeah, they suck at the moment. The idea behind it is great, but the execution is bad. If it worked with recovery it would have been really powerful - maybe too powerful. You would have been unkillable. So I see why that doesn't work. But that you can't even select or target your char any more to sip a potion or get healed is just stupid.

[Boeroer]

ROFLMAO! I just discovered that Spelltongue + PainLink does some awesome stuff: When you hit the guys that beat you with Spelltongue while you have Pain Link active, then your Pain Link duration will get higher and higher. That might be the case because Spelltongue steals benefical effects from foes. I can't see how my Pain Link is benefical for them, but it works anyways. It's endless Pain Link as long as I keep hitting. Must be a bug...

 

I have to try that with a barbarian who gets Pain Link from a cipher. With his carnage he steals benefical effects from all foes around him. One hit from Spelltongue should increase the duration so much that you can switch to another weapon set and still be pain linked for the rest of the fight. Best part: Pain Link can be casted out of encounter and is basically free.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

If you hand me a saved game, I can write up a bug for that

 

Tonight I'll be reporting the Buttercut bug.

[Boeroer]

No, it's different: Spelltongue steals time from the enemy for ALL my active benefical effects. I just tried it with Time Parasite, Pain Link and others. You can prebuff like hell before encounter and then use Spelltonge to prolong all the durations at once. When you have very fast attack speed (like my monk has) it's enough timestealing that you will never run out of these buffs. When you are a barb then it's even better. Because of carnage+timestealing all the buffs that are active will get prolonged forever as long as you keep hitting the enemy with Spelltonge (and fast enough). The best use of this would be a barb with fast attack speed and a priest and/or cipher for buffing him with all they can. Then he starts to fight and the buffs will never expire as long as he's hitting. That's great and I think it is intended. I always thought Spelltongue is ok because of his attack speed stealing - but this is way better. Think of it: A barb with pain block, pain link, dire blessing... you name it - and it's on forever. Well for the whole fight. Rolling a barb now... 

 

When it works as intended, then it will only steal time for me if the target has any benefical effect. I discovered this during the Torfen bounty where all the priests are buffing anything with a heartbeat...

 

p.s.: Buttercut? Tehehehe!

Edited November 18, 2015 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

My perfect party takes shape... :D

[mosspit]

Well I have a failed idea.

 

Given the attractiveness of Pain Link from the other thread, I toyed with the idea of affecting both enemy and friendly targets with Pain Link. "Infinite" dmg loop triggered by dmg instance proc on opposing Pain Links. I thought of casting PL on a charmed enemy. Sadly, it can't work as the charmed status is not a proper ally flag and the charmed enemy can't gt targeted by PL