Nice item-ability combinations - what works and what doesn't

[Boeroer]

I just found ot that all the "Missile" scrolls work with Penetrating Shot (not a big surprise, they are called missiles for a reason) - but even better: they also work with Driving Flight! This turns all your Missile Scrolls into AoE spells. Concussive Missiles is very cool: they explode on impact, doing AoE damage, and continue to fly and explode another time for even more AoE damage. Bounding missiles bounce around like hell. This is - who guessed it - totally awesome with a Ring of Searing Flames or another source of Combusting Wounds: with Missile Barrage (=9 projectiles) you don't only cause 9*5 = 45 extra burn damage to one target from combusting wounds - you cause two targets to suffer 45 burn damage! Whooha!

 

Stunning Shots don't work with this by the way.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

I guess that nobody finds this as awesome as I do?

[L4wlight]

I will abuse this for sure. :D

[AndreaColombo]

It's pretty great but wouldn't your ranger's DPS still be better off just shooting (twinned) arrows?

[Boeroer]

No - seriously no. With a bunch of Concussice Missiles you can just sweep the floor with Nalrend and her gang in no time. And also in combination with Combusting Wounds 18 hits from Missile Barrage are way better then two or four hits with a normal attack. Ouch! 

 

And you can put that in between when you're reloading your gun (if you don't use bows).

[AndreaColombo]

Looks like I'll need to start seriously considering a ranger build ... My third play through after TWM pt. II releases seems increasingly inevitable

[mosspit]

I might try a melee ranger again. I did attempt one with Sagani pre-2.0 but it was quite underwhelming. But then again that was when companion pets were meh.

 

CW is pretty cool, only beef with it is that it is hard to track. Usually I would be too focused on allocating commands and controlling the battlefield to notice the dmg contributions. And then the enemy just died. Happened to Alpine and to upscaled Thaos in my completed PotD/ToI all-melee playthough. Kinda anti-climatic, and combat log doesn't state much either. It is like once CW is in place and the party start stacking the DoTs, the dmg dealt just scales up fast. And in a way passively too.

[Boeroer]

That's right. It's a pity that you can't see the damage in the combat log. But maybe it would be too much spam.

 

Melee ranger's still inferior if you don't use some special tactics. Then he's awesome. But still: Stunning Shots is so good.

[Achilles]

It's a pity that you can't see the damage in the combat log. 

Huh?

[Boeroer]

Combusting Wounds' damage

[Boeroer]

So I tested a melee Spellsword wizard with Spelltongue to see if he can hit fast enough to steal sufficient durations for his buffs so that they never run out during combat. Thanks to Alacrity and maxed DEX he can!

If you power up all your buffs (last one should be C's Martial Power) and then start to hit very quickly (durgan refined Spelltongue and durgan refined small shield) your buffs will be prolonged until the end of the fight - as long as you don't have to run around a lot or get disabled.

 

Maybe this was the intention of the blade in the first place.

 

This may also work with other classes if they can stack a bit of attack speed and are able to constantly hit or crit .

[Boeroer]

I just discovered that Amplified Thrust (cipher power) still generates focus (that I knew before) AND benefits from Vulnerable Attack! That's quite powerful.

 

I'm just playng a party of 6 with my "special" builds (Dull Runner paladin, Backlash Beldam cipher, Riptide ranger, Fulmineo monk, Mad Hornet rogue and Hurtstacker wizard). The Beldam is also wearing Ryona's Vembraces because of the multiretaliation-focus-effect. So it's a 8 DR bypass for Amplified Thrust. If you hit a low DR foe with it and have Draining Whip and a +x% focus item you will have way more focus after the Thrust hit.

 

And it is fast and does pretty good damage, too. Also good for rescueing your squishies since it pushes foes away and thus breaks engagement.

[Boeroer]

Erm... did somebody else notice that the disorienting enchantment effect stacks on enemies? We heard about the blunderbuss Scon Mica's Roar: that it causes 6 times -5 defense to a total of -30 defenses. So after reading in the Attack Speed 2.0 thread I figured maybe this also happens if you hit fast enough with melee weapons.

 

I made a barb with all the attack speed stuff so he will hit as fast as possible and gave him the Vile Loner's Lance and Strike Hard (looks crappy, I know), both are disorienting. Then I developed this a bit further and gave him the White Spire and Wodewys for his second and third weapon slot and took Quick Switch. Now I ran into a bunch of Ogres and startet hitting. Soon after that Wodewys triggered Nature's Mark - that caused a long lasting debuff of 10 points to deflection and reflex in a pretty big AoE (maxed INT and Ring of Overseeing) - now I switched to the White Spire and hit everybody for -5 defenses and switched to the dual weapon setup and caused another -5 plus -5 from both weapons. As I had guessed, these debuffs stacked. So the Ogres had -25 deflection and reflex and -15 fortitude and will for a short amount of time (I also used Threatening Presence and shouts to debuff them further). And then - because I was pretty fast - the defenses of the Ogres dropped really fast because I was hitting without recovery and although you can't see it in the tooltip, the disorienting debuff of Strike Hard and Vile Loner's Lance started to stack "internally". I looked at the defelction and it dropped from somewhere near 50 to 20 and further - then staying there. Obviously the first debuff ran out and I hit the point where there was a balace between outworn debuff and new ones applied. Together with Threatening Presence and shouts the defenses of the Ogres were really really low. THey were not disabled, but easy prey for the rest of the party.

 

If you skip all that quick switching and just go for the Lance + Strike Hard (or even for the Lance and a small shield) and try to get crits to prolong the debuff duration plus max INT for long duration this may be a nice, reliable way to heavily debuff in an AoE without to much micromanagement and with  litte resources.

 

Have to test this further if it's worth a build... 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

I gave the barb Aspirant's Mark (should be 1/encounter after WM II comes out) and all speed stuff and shouts, VIle Loner's and Strike Hard. They are not only disorienting weapons, they also have nice interrupt ratings (0.5 and 1.0) so I also took Interrupting Blows. Behold the power of the Disorienting Roflcopter:

:-D

 

And that's without the terrifiy-shout!

Heart of Fury is a BIG thing here also: Because it does a Full Attack in an AoE PLUS carnage you an stack up the disorienting effect to ridiculous amounts. But even without it the defenses are whimpy. Groups of tough enemies suddenly become soft, wet toast.

 

Have to try if you also can achieve this with one weapon (Vile Loner's) and shield. Hammer and spear really gives you the look of an imbecile.

 

Will post a build when WM II comes out...

 

edit: the fortitude and reflex defenses are not known - they should be nearly as low as the rest. Fort might be a bit higher (20-30) because ogres have a lot of that.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

You said you were gonna keep your hands off the game for a while, but the Dark Side of the Cheese's allure was much too strong, huh?

 

(I wish I could like your post multiple times because of the hysterical face you drew on the screenshot XD)

Edited January 20, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

LOL!

 

Yeah... sadly I'm too weak to resist. My eyebags look like Sparfel's waterskin...

 

But I'm doing no playthroughs at the moment so that's something. Tomorrow I will start another working project so maybe this will really be the last day testing some builds.

 

And here's the result with Vile Loner's Lance and a small shield (no hammer involved):

 

 

As you can see it's nearly the same. It also went below 0 a lot but I missed the right moment to take a picture. Whatever - Barbaric Blow is really nice with this (and HoF of course) - and because you can stack a little more ACC on the spear than you could if you were dual wielding spear/hammer you produce more crits - which leads to longer duration of the disabling - which leads to more crits... so long story short: it's nearly as effective. This might turn out to be a really good build even for midgame: not too low deflection, nice debuffing and ok damage. I dumped MIG by the way and did not take Vuln. Attack but still had 30+ damage hits because all of my hits were crits - imagine that with a second damage dealing barb (Firebrand?) in a double team - or even with a priest who casts Crowns for the Faithful and Painful Interdiction - ouch!

 

p.s.: for you I drew another silly picture, AndreaColombo.

[AndreaColombo]

So, in my case (I'm a single-target melee DPS guy), LoP + the White Spire = profit.

I'd probably have to ditch Vulnerable Attack to achieve 0 recovery, but then I'd gain an extra talent slot and I could do without casting Dire Blessing.

Gud, gud... *finger pyramid of evil contemplation*

 

EDIT: Actually I can't achieve 0 recovery with The White Spire; based on my preliminary math, I'd be at 10 frames plus the delay. Still good, but I think I'll stick to the BotEP.

Edited January 20, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

Maybe - you should run a test if the overall DPS in an encounter is higher with the White Spire. Oh wait - that's a rhyme! Sweet!

 

The good thing is that you can buy it early. BotEP comes bit late or not?  Of course you can always use the White Spire (while you light a fire*) first and then switch to BotEP later.

 

 

 

)* just for the rhyme 

[Boeroer]

What a team of 6 barbs, one with The White Spite, the second one with Vile Loner's Lance, the third with Wodewys, the fourth with The Hours of St. Rumbalt, the Fifth with Tall Grass and the sixth with The Temaperacl would be able to do? I'm tempted to plan another playthrough... oh nooo! 

 

edit: Maybe Interfering like on Lost Thayn's Reach also stacks? Will test that now...

Edited January 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

Maybe - you should run a test if the overall DPS in an encounter is higher with the White Spire. Oh wait - that's a rhyme! Sweet!

 

I expect that to be higher with BotEP.

 

The White Spire sure is neat and can be acquired early, so it's definitely a great option until I get the BotEP, but it would have a (slightly) slower recovery while also sacrificing Vulnerable Attack. Sure, it would make me crit often but I always make use of Dire Blessing in conjuction with Durgan stell, which net me a 40% hit-to-crit conversion ratio anyway (plus my buffed Accuracy is pretty high and I debuff my enemies too) ... so I guess the returns wouldn't be up to snuff in my case.

Edited January 20, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

Hehe: yes, Interfering stacks. Had them all down to 62 ACC instead of 92. Then I did my barbaric shout: "You can't hit me, nananana!"

 

edit: or alternatively: "U can't touch this... HAMMER TIME!"

Edited January 20, 2016 by Boeroer

[Mercbeast]

Hehe: yes, Interfering stacks. Had them all down to 62 ACC instead of 92. Then I did my barbaric shout: "You can't hit me, nananana!"

 

edit: or alternatively: "U can't touch this... HAMMER TIME!"

 

Would you mind giving a quick build breakdown for this? I'm quite interested in a disabling fire and forget barbarian ;p

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Hehe: yes, Interfering stacks. Had them all down to 62 ACC instead of 92. Then I did my barbaric shout: "You can't hit me, nananana!"

 

edit: or alternatively: "U can't touch this... HAMMER TIME!"

 

Would you mind giving a quick build breakdown for this? I'm quite interested in a disabling fire and forget barbarian ;p

 

 

 

I'm still developing my version but so far from testing it's max dex and int, rest as you feel comfortable. Personally I take Might to 8 and Res to 7 (i.e., within range of gear buffs to get them back to normal), Con at 10, rest into Perception.  You don't need a lot of accuracy you just need to be attacking as fast as you can so you apply the debuff as often as possible. This is especially true because you want to open combat with a Deflection debuff (Cipher's Eyestrike is great for this, or Nature's Mark).

 

The build is even workable at low levels on PotD, though I wouldn't recommend it for solo -- just grab some supporting party members and two spears (Xaurip Champion ones for max comedy) and stabitty-stab-stab, or two hatchets for survivability. You die a lot but you do a lot of damage too -- basically an AoE rogue. Taking Eder's Second Chance armor can be a good idea.  That'll get you through to Defiance Bay and the spear, after that it starts to take off. Talents are the standard dual-wielding build talents. 

 

The big choice will come at higher levels -- whether to stick with spears, say vile loner's and cladhailath, or shift to warhammers, or use a mix of spears and warhammers (Shatterstar, strike hard, godansthunyr all being decent choices). That's the part I'm still not sure about. 

 

 

If you're playing the new beta branch, the added DR from Survival helps a lot, so I'd recommend slave background for athletics and survival. I think you probably want the +1 dex culture over the +1 int culture, too. I've been using a moon godlike for added survivability during frenzy and max dex/int, but other choices could work too, esp. hearth orlan.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Boeroer]

Just like the Dr. ordered, you need to max out your DEX. I don't agree that you don't need PER so much because it not only gives you more interrupts(!) but also does result in more crits. If you crit an enemy with a disorienting weapon, the duration of the debuff also gets multiplied by 1.5. That way you can stack up more of this debuffs as if you only would do hits. But the main reason is interrupts. Crits will start to fly around anyway when your enemies are debuffed multiple times with disorienting (as you can see in my screenshots - a deflection around 1 means 100% crits if your ACC is 98 or above). You can speed this circle of debuffing up significantly if you debuff the defenses of the mob first with a spell. I used Aspirant's Mark so I can do it myself - a scroll would also be fine. Or you just ask a fellow party member to do this. I just tested a double team of a Wodewys-Barb that causes Nature's Mark on 10% of hits/crits together with this debuffer brab. Since you hit a lot of enemies via carnage the spell striking will trigger pretty soon, releasing Nature's Mark in an AoE upon the mob - then it all goes very quickly. But you could also take any debuffing spell that lowers defenses. I also used the yells and shouts so that my barb doesn't get hit too often. As I said it's pretty annoying when your stacking chain gets broken because you get interrupted of even disabled.

 

I just went with the Vile Loner's Lance and a shield. It didn't make a lot of difference interrupt-wise and also the stacking of disorienting wasn't so much higher than with dual wielding. It also gives you a lot more sturdyness - especially if you combine it with the Stalwart Defiance talent. If you want more survivability then you can even pick up a bigger shield. This will not slow you down - just make you do less crits at the beginning of a fight. Is thas no influence on your interrupt chance. A normal RES value helps so that you don't get interrupted too often (because that breaks your interruption/debuffing chain). Since you don't want to wear thick armor (you have to be fast in order to stack the debuffs) a shield really helps. One of the main reasons for a shield is the durgan feinforcement. It gives you 15% more speed with the main hand - and that's nothing to sneeze at. Gauntlets of Swift Action would be supergreat, also.

 

What I dumped to 3 was MIG so I could also max INT - since I didn't want to be a damage dealer I just tested it and it works. And you have +4 MIG from Frenzy. But Savage Defiance is still a little bit weak then. But the maxed INT kind of makes up for this. With a Ring of Overseeing you can reach lots of enemies now. You will still do ok damage because of all the crits. I didn't use Vulnerable Attack because of Attack Speed - and still did 30 damage with each hit against DR 10 to 15 Ogres. A wizard with Expose Vulnerabilites, a Chanter with this DR- invocation and Ryona's Vembraces might help. Or you build a real glass cannon with dumped RES and high MIG. But that is not "fire and forget".

 

I chose the Vile Loner's Lance because it not only lowers defenses by -5 (and stacks it), but also has a very high interrupt time (1.0 sec). Plus: it has +5 ACC as an advantage which is great, too. That's indeed a nice combination. I think a second wepon with dual wielding will not make the build any better because then you will not hit frequently with this awesome spear but only every second hit. I tested it a bit and I like the spear & shield style better. It also helps with the "fire and forget" aspect.

 

As I said: Barbaric Blow and Heart of Fury really speed things up. HoF is maybe better left over for the tough fights though. Yell or Shout help to stay alive but maybe you want to skip this because of the increased micromanagement.

 

So I had something like:

 

Moon Godlike (+1 INT and +1 DEX + healing - although a bit weak, but great range)

 

Background: Deadfire Archipelago (+1 DEX)

 

MIG: 03

CON: 10

DEX: 20

PER: 15

INT: 19

RES: 10

 

Reflexes are godly - fortitude not so. Don't get knocked prone! Any gear that improves fortitue defense and defenses against prone and stunned is highly appreciated.

 

Abilities: Frenzy, Bloodlust (doesn't work so well with dunoed MIG at first, but later triggers often), Savage Defiance, Thick Skinned, Theatening Presence, Barbaric Blow, Heart of Fury.

 

Talents: Weapon Focus Peasant, Weapon & Shield Style, Accurate Carnage, Interrupting Blows, Stalwart Defiance, Aspirant's Mark, Bear's Fortitude

 

 

That should work. I don't know how he behaves throughout a whole playthrough - I just tinkered around a bit with this build. I will have to do a bit more playing before I post a build. Maybe WM II will destroy this anyway - who knows?  

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Just like the Dr. ordered, you need to max out your DEX. I don't agree that you don't need PER so much because it not only gives you more interrupts(!) but also does result in more crits. If you crit an enemy with a disorienting weapon, the duration of the debuff also gets multiplied by 1.5. 

 

 

Well, your overall build only has a one-point difference in Per from mine =); I just meant you didn't need to max it out. I agree you need some Per -- you want it giving a bonus -- but there are lots of things that give +Accuracy so I don't feel it needs to be a priority like Int or Dex. The real difference stat-wise seems to be that I don't drop Might quite as low and instead take a few points from Resolve. I feel like Deflection is so easily gained from various items, including a shield, it doesn't make sense to penalize Might that heavily (especially given how badly that hurts the moon godlike heal). If you only take your Might down to 7 or 8, it'll still almost always be in positive territory when you frenzy and thus also when Silver Tide procs.

 

I see your point about just going single-weapon with the Vile Loner's lance and I think you're probably right *through act II.* Once you have access to Strike Hard, though, which also has the disorienting debuff and also has an inherent speed buff, I think you'll be far better off going dual-wield -- you can then put Durgan on the strike hard and start really going full windmill, and then late game move to strike hard/godasnthunyr for a true stunlock build. The problem there of course is that Vile Loner's Lance and Strike Hard are in different weapon groups, and Strike Hard doesn't have nearly as nice of an Interrupt bonus. One option would be to respec, of course. You could also try taking Accurate Carnage and Interrupting Blows at lower level and waiting to take your weapon group and weapon style skills till levels 6/8

Edited January 22, 2016 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy