Attacks in Paris

[BruceVC]

 

Where they get all these...? Those jips are shiny new, their banner must come from factories somewhere, printed, their gears and weapons must come from a source...how do they live? What they eat everyday? Their "caliphate" don't produce anything and have no business with anyone, how their people live? Don't do any work? How their territories run? Does anybody ever think about it?

 

 

 

Obviously this has to be it

 

http://40.media.tumblr.com/c7180c2fdd0cda2a714b87714b631e74/tumblr_nxd59lv4x31sr8zk0o1_1280.jpg

 

I mean, I cant take any conspiracy theory seriously... I've been dining with PMs and some FMs and COEs of local bank branches, I've been a senior manager in a multinational global corporation, now I am working for a certain investment bank, and I can assure you there are no supernational secret groups.

 

It's just simple money and politics behind the scenes, yes, but no Illuminati or w/e you call things that are good for James Bond movies.

 

I am sure that those guys got money from the trade of oil on black market, they get weapons from various criminal organizations from former USSR republics AND their sympathizers in the Middle East (looking at you Saudi Arabia)

 

They eat things they take from the localt population. do you think those areas are desolate and without any local populations? They have slave work force, they take around 9/10 of what people under their rule produce (those peopel who only live in their lands and did not join the ranks of ISIS)

 

as for oil, they take it from the instalations that they captured...

 

a lot of vehicles were captured form ineffective Iraqi forces and Syrian bases.

 

Darkpriest I'm sorry to ask you this again but where are you from again and where do you live now?

[Volourn]

"Putin has an 80 % approval rating."

 

L0L Still thinking Russia has legit votes. L0L

[Qistina]

Various ME rich sympathizers (probably even among Sauds), Turks having a blind eye on black market oil trade from ISIS, because they are in conflict with Kurds etc.

 

These are all simple politics, there is no supernational organization with evil people etc. leave that to James Bond movies. It's all a simple combination of various personal and national interests. Personal interests are driven usually by large corporations, where banking, oil&gas, pharmaceuticals are the three leading cores as they drive the global cash and wealth movements, and national interest are self explanatory. It's simple business and politics. It's been like this for at least 4000 years.

 

Well, Saud is USA best friend and allies...USA is Israel best friend and allies...don't you get it?

 

Why these islamic terrorists are busy overthrowing governments in Middle East? Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Afghanistan...all are troubled....except Saudi.

 

They are preparing Israel to be a throne for the incoming Messiah...and then they wiped out Russia-China-Iran...look on how many USA military bases around the world.....circling the world....

 

[Sakai]

Thats interesting, we get told he is very popular and everyone thinks he is great 

 

 

You see your view is not common from Russians generally so once again thanks for sharing

One thing you have to understand about Russia, is that there's A LOT of propaganda here. TV and most papers at this point are nothing but brainwashing. People get told everyday how evil West is planning to destroy Russia, and that US is literally behind everything that is happening. So a lot of people, those who maybe don't use internet all that much, don't know much about the world outside their little circle, believe in at least some of that because they don't know any better and that's what they're used to. A lot of people still have USSR-like mentality, where you just keep your mouth shut. But the thing is, just like it happened with USSR, even if they say they support Putin, 99% of them would never defend him if there was a revolution. 

[Darkpriest]

 

 

Where they get all these...? Those jips are shiny new, their banner must come from factories somewhere, printed, their gears and weapons must come from a source...how do they live? What they eat everyday? Their "caliphate" don't produce anything and have no business with anyone, how their people live? Don't do any work? How their territories run? Does anybody ever think about it?

 

 

 

Obviously this has to be it

 

http://40.media.tumblr.com/c7180c2fdd0cda2a714b87714b631e74/tumblr_nxd59lv4x31sr8zk0o1_1280.jpg

 

I mean, I cant take any conspiracy theory seriously... I've been dining with some FM, mayors and COEs of local bank branches I've been a senior manager in a multinational global corporation, now I am working for a certain investment bank, and I can assure you there are no supernational secret groups.

 

It's just simple money and politics behind the scenes, yes, but no Illuminati or w/e you call things that are good for James Bond movies.

 

I am sure that those guys got money from the trade of oil on black market, they get weapons from various criminal organizations from former USSR republics AND their sympathizers in the Middle East (looking at you Saudi Arabia)

 

They eat things they take from the localt population. do you think those areas are desolate and without any local populations? They have slave work force, they take around 9/10 of what people under their rule produce (those peopel who only live in their lands and did not join the ranks of ISIS)

 

as for oil, they take it from the instalations that they captured...

 

a lot of vehicles were captured form ineffective Iraqi forces and Syrian bases.

 

Darkpriest I'm sorry to ask you this again but where are you from again and where do you live now?

 

 

I'll take my liberty of not telling that much, probably said too much already about myself, btw. i edited a part of sentence because technically i should not have added one international economic conference as a regular thing.

 

I have no Facebook and social media accounts, i guess i got a bit carried away here, but what's done is done.

 

I am from CEE and after last 8 years of working in various countries including West EU, Scandinavia, USA and Canada I am back to CEE,

 

I've been traveling personally to various parts of the world on my own as well as I like to explore other cultures and their history.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Darkpriest]

@Qistina,

 

I am sorry, but you are starting to tread into a territory where I would have to start using demeaning adjectives or the level of sarcasm could be offending to you as a person, so I'll better back off, but just as a last word. this theory is as credible as the end of the world tied to Mayan calendar...

[Qistina]

"America never have fair deal, no matter Republican or Democrat, though Democrat is more diplomatic, but they always hide a knife behind their smile..."

 

Yet you have the gall to accuse others/Westerns of ignorance, arrogance, and bigotry.  Trust me, Muslims are treated better in the West than  other religions are treated in Muslim dominated countries. hell, Muslims are treated better in Western countries than they are treated in Muslim countries. That says A LOT.

 

Also, I notice that you ignore when peopel show prove that you are a lair. Twoe xamples are calling  Europe a country (that be like calling Afrika a country) when it is a continent and your mistaken belief/lie that former President Bush lumps all Muslims in with extremist Islam in his speeches when he most certainly never did that. Again, from 9/11 on he always stressed the opposite. Someone even shared a video of it.

 

If i want to list all European countries it will be a long list

 

You know that my country used to want to buy F-16 Hornet from USA? But what we got? yes we got F-16 Hornet, but only the body....nothing, empty body of F-16 Hornet...no gun, no missiles, no nothing...that's bull****

 

That's why my country ex-PM, Tun Mahathir pissed off, going to Russia buy MiG and Sukhoi...in return, Russia give us free trip to outerspace...

 

Russia is a GOOD friend!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5OOiO5yeS4

Edited November 15, 2015 by Qistina

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Where they get all these...? Those jips are shiny new, their banner must come from factories somewhere, printed, their gears and weapons must come from a source...how do they live? What they eat everyday? Their "caliphate" don't produce anything and have no business with anyone, how their people live? Don't do any work? How their territories run? Does anybody ever think about it?

 

 

 

Obviously this has to be it

 

http://40.media.tumblr.com/c7180c2fdd0cda2a714b87714b631e74/tumblr_nxd59lv4x31sr8zk0o1_1280.jpg

 

I mean, I cant take any conspiracy theory seriously... I've been dining with some FM, mayors and COEs of local bank branches I've been a senior manager in a multinational global corporation, now I am working for a certain investment bank, and I can assure you there are no supernational secret groups.

 

It's just simple money and politics behind the scenes, yes, but no Illuminati or w/e you call things that are good for James Bond movies.

 

I am sure that those guys got money from the trade of oil on black market, they get weapons from various criminal organizations from former USSR republics AND their sympathizers in the Middle East (looking at you Saudi Arabia)

 

They eat things they take from the localt population. do you think those areas are desolate and without any local populations? They have slave work force, they take around 9/10 of what people under their rule produce (those peopel who only live in their lands and did not join the ranks of ISIS)

 

as for oil, they take it from the instalations that they captured...

 

a lot of vehicles were captured form ineffective Iraqi forces and Syrian bases.

 

Darkpriest I'm sorry to ask you this again but where are you from again and where do you live now?

 

 

I'll take my liberty of not telling that much, probably said too much already about myself, btw. i edited a part of sentence because technically i should not have added one international economic conference as a regular thing.

 

I have no Facebook and social media accounts, i guess i got a bit carried away here, but what's done is done.

 

I am from CEE and after last 8 years of working in various countries including West EU, Scandinavia, USA and Canada I am back to CEE

 

Thanks for answering, I completely understand why some people don't like sharing certain details because then people make assumptions around there view " oh he is from Bulgaria...no wonder he like Communism  " 

 

But I only ask because we have had some good chats yet we disagree on some things and I just want to understand your background

[Malcador]

Heh, wonder what will happen with Kadyrov if Putin is gone. And really, that is what the West wants.

[Sakai]

Heh, wonder what will happen with Kadyrov if Putin is gone. And really, that is what the West wants.

Most likely another war since he won't give his power away under any circumstance.

[Malcador]

Even better for West then, I guess.

 

Apparently, a lot of people are annoyed that this got more attention than Beirut being bombed. Arab lives don't matter, etc.

 

Heh.

[BruceVC]

Heh, wonder what will happen with Kadyrov if Putin is gone. And really, that is what the West wants.

Can you produce any link to support your view that the West wants Putin gone

 

What many people believe is if Putin goes there  is no guarantee that there will be suddenly be a new preferable Russian president who is pro-Western

 

The West has no control of who the Russians will vote for if Putin had to go so I don't buy this view that " the West wants Putin gone " 

[Qistina]

It is not a hogwash or James Bond...see this...we are all anti-New World Order

 

[Gromnir]

as an aside, malaysia still has f/a EIGHTEEN hornets in its air force, and has had such for many years.  those hornets were not sold as empty shells.  they has been continually upgraded via a contract with boeing. as recently as may o' 2015, malaysia was buying AIM-120 AMRAAM from the US in an effort to maintain their hornets.

 

recently, malaysia were OFFERED f/a 18 e/f super hornets, but malaysia decided to choose russian alternatives.

 

what sorta nonsense is malaysia media spinning, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sakai]

Can you produce any link to support your view that the West wants Putin gone

 

What many people believe is if Putin goes there  is no guarantee that there will be suddenly be a new preferable Russian president who is pro-Western

 

The West has no control of who the Russians will vote for if Putin had to go so I don't buy this view that " the West wants Putin gone " 

Well, i don't know if the West wants him gone or not, but to me it seems most likely that what happened in Ukraine will happen in Russia. People are tired (or getting tired) of constant fear mongering and of corruption, especially the younger generation is not interested in opposing West at all. Quite the contrary really, people want to be a part of it. So in case of revolution, i don't really see any radicals coming to power. Just to give you an example, the biggest opposition leader, Navalny, who is very much pro-West, got 30% on mayoral election in Moscow in 2013. And that's without any access to TV or press or anything like that, with government actively trying to stop him, just through his own efforts and with the help of thousands of volunteers. So yeah, most people just want to live their lifes peacefully in a country they can be proud of.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Sakai

[BruceVC]

Apparently, a lot of people are annoyed that this got more attention than Beirut being bombed. Arab lives don't matter, etc.

 

Heh.

Yes this is something that I have dealing with in South Africa over the last 2 days 

 

People try to dismiss all this global  attention and say things like " why doesn't the media care about bomb blasts that happened in  Kenya,Yemen or Lebanon" 

 

In South Africa most people don't even really know about Yemen or the Lebanon bomb blast and they only say this because they want to " highlight inconsistent media attention from the West " 

 

But its very easy to dispute, I could say numerous things like

 

• Well please don't let anyone influence who you should be concerned for ...this is a personal choice 
• The ME has about 8 wars and conflicts on-going at the moment and there are weekly examples of bomb blasts...so you can protest this any day of the week,,,this is about France
• The attack on France is obviously going to get more attention because France is a super power actively involved in combating extremism...what France decides or doesn't decide can influence the entire ISIS reality because France could send ground troops into Syria

[Elerond]

ISIS/ISIL isn't just some organization that does terrorist attacks. It leadership has lot of Iraq old leaders, those bureaucrats and local leaders that actually were responsible of day to day running of things in Iraq during Saddam's reign. So they have actually quite good knowledge how to run a country and what and how you need to establish supply and production lines.

 

Where they get all their resources, that is quite complex question, but they control big sunk of Iraq's oil field they have control over some oil refineries (meaning that they can produce diesel and gasoline themselves), they have billions of dollars worth of money that they got during Saddam's reign. They also got lot of that money that USA give Iraq for rebuilding, their weaponry comes from Iraq's own weapons, some are given by USA for Iraq's new defense force from whom ISIS has taken them or who are actually joined with ISIS or whom ISIS has bought them. Also there is no easy way to tell who belongs in ISIS and who are peaceful Iraqis or Syrians and it is especially hard with people that support ISIS but are from other countries. Which gives them ability to buy things from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. countries where it is easy to ship things to Iraq and Syria. And they are also able to sell that oil which they produce to get more money.

 

So ISIS is not just bunch of raiders, but actual terrorist country (for lack of better description). They actually run such as schools, hospitals, gas stations, etc. in areas that they control, probably because their leadership has members that know that you can't run country without them. And people should not forget that one of ISIS's goals is to establish new country run be them. 

 

But the answer to question where ISIS get their resources and money is that they get it from themselves, they loot some and from trade.

[Qistina]

as an aside, malaysia still has f/a EIGHTEEN hornets in its air force, and has had such for many years.  those hornets were not sold as empty shells.  they has been continually upgraded via a contract with boeing. as recently as may o' 2015, malaysia was buying AIM-120 AMRAAM from the US in an effort to maintain their hornets.

 

recently, malaysia were OFFERED f/a 18 e/f super hornets, but malaysia decided to choose russian alternatives.

 

what sorta nonsense is malaysia media spinning, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Like i said, America never give a fair deal, but that doesn't mean we no longer have dealings with USA...Presiden Obama just visited Malaysia you know...he come with a treaty, another unfair deal...the TPPA...

 

It is a convenient the president visit us after the incident of MH370 and MH17............we know your game........

 

Oh i forgot, those Hornets was sold as empty shell, USA refuse to send the missiles UNTILL Malaysia got trouble in war...that's bull****...when Malaysia turn to Russia, USA try to make new deals...

Edited November 17, 2015 by Qistina

[BruceVC]

 

Can you produce any link to support your view that the West wants Putin gone

 

What many people believe is if Putin goes there  is no guarantee that there will be suddenly be a new preferable Russian president who is pro-Western

 

The West has no control of who the Russians will vote for if Putin had to go so I don't buy this view that " the West wants Putin gone " 

Well, i don't know if the West wants him gone or not, but to me it seems most likely that what happened in Ukraine will happen in Russia. People are tired (or getting tired) of constant fear mongering and of corruption, especially the younger generation is not interested in opposing West at all. Quite the contrary really, people want to be a part of it. So in case of revolution, i don't really see any radicals coming to power. Just to give you an example, the biggest opposition leader, Navalny, who is very much pro-West, got 30% on mayoral election in Moscow in 2013. And that's without any access to TV or press or anything like that, with government actively trying to stop him, just through his own efforts and with the help of thousands of volunteers. So yeah, most people just want to live their live peacefully in a country they can be proud of.

 

Another interesting post....yes we want a pro-Western political party in Russia because I promise there is no reason for Russia and the West to have friction. The Cold War is over long ago and people do respect Russia and believe it has a very significant role to play

 

But this strange anti-Western sentiment that seems to come from Putin causes unnecessary tension  

[Darkpriest]

it is not anti western, it is more like keeping Russia as an elite player in the geopolitics. I mean, why USA will not withdraw from all around the world and adopt to Russian geopolitics?

 

It's a game for global influence, as influence equals power and money. would you rather shape the world around you as you want or just stand and look if you had options to do both?

[Sakai]

But this strange anti-Western sentiment that seems to come from Putin causes unnecessary tension  

It's not that strage at all. He's an ex-KGB. A lot of other politicians started their careers back in USSR too. And they never really got the memo that USSR is gone. For all intents and purposes it still isn't for them. So from that point of view their behavior, that to a normal person seems bizzare, is comletely logical. For them Cold War is still on.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Some of you are big Snowden admirers : http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-show-u-s--surveillance-of-islamic-state-may-be--going-dark-203103709.html# We should also thank Apple and Google for not cooperating with the government any more.

Oh yeah, let's turn the whole west into the incarnation of 1984. I think Jefferson would be proud now...

 

This kind of hyperbole will be paid for in blood, though probably no terrorist would bother with Slovakia. I'm guessing you've never lived under communism.

 

 

 

 

Some of you are big Snowden admirers : http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-show-u-s--surveillance-of-islamic-state-may-be--going-dark-203103709.html# We should also thank Apple and Google for not cooperating with the government any more.

Oh yeah, let's turn the whole west into the incarnation of 1984. I think Jefferson would be proud now...

 

Snowden is a traitor and betrayed his country.... and he did reveal how the NSA have the ability to monitor most social media so now maybe certain extremist  groups may not use Facebook or Twitter as a way to communicate but I imagine this would have happened eventually so I don't think we can blame him for this ?

 

He revealed all of our most secret methods and assets, not just Twitter and Facebook. He's done immeasurable harm to the West's security.

 

 

If the west wasn't so obsessed with removing Putin and puttin' another Yeltsin in charge of Russia, a lot of this would have never come to pass and they'd have an ally instead of an enemy. 

 

But then, if the foreign policy of Germany and France is going to be decided in Washington, then they deserve no better than what's coming to them.

Yes, the West is the one who made Putin invade Ukraine, a country whose security and territorial integrity Russia had guaranteed.

[Sakai]

He revealed all of our most secret methods and assets, not just Twitter and Facebook. He's done immeasurable harm to the West's security.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. One of your founding fathers said that, i believe?  

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

as an aside, malaysia still has f/a EIGHTEEN hornets in its air force, and has had such for many years.  those hornets were not sold as empty shells.  they has been continually upgraded via a contract with boeing. as recently as may o' 2015, malaysia was buying AIM-120 AMRAAM from the US in an effort to maintain their hornets.

 

recently, malaysia were OFFERED f/a 18 e/f super hornets, but malaysia decided to choose russian alternatives.

 

what sorta nonsense is malaysia media spinning, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Like i said, America never give a fair deal, but that doesn't mean we no longer have dealings with USA...Presiden Obama just visited Malaysia you know...he come with a treaty, another unfair deal...the TTPA...

 

It is a convenient the president visit us after the incident of MH370 and MH17............we know your game........

 

calling bs.  if deal were so bad, then why were f/a 18 e/f a finalist along with grippen and russian su 30 mkms in malaysia's recent attempt to upgrade air force?  malaysia continued to get hornet support from boeing and the us dod in the form o' continued training and hardware upgrades. you are being fed bs from your media and naive if you think that the us provided empty hornet shells to malaysia over a decade ago and that malaysia has continued to cooperate with us to upgrade, maintain, and train pilots for those hornets... as well as making new hornets a finalist for their recent fighter aircraft upgrade.

 

nonsense.

 

all o' which is so utterly irrelevant to what is going on in paris and the middle east and africa.

 

aside, we agree with bruce and others that focus on paris is unfortunate but understandable.  we personal were annoyed when the charlie hebdo stuff were occupying headlines when at similar time an entire town in northern nigeria were razed by boko haram.  we complained 'bout the lack o' sympathy for the folks o' baga on these boards (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66161-boko-haram-and-the-kidnpping-of-the-school-girls/?p=1556307) nigeria claims that 150 people  were killed and and thousands displaced (as opposed to the estimates o' anywhere from 1000 to 2000 fatalities from more objective sources). baga shoulda' garnered more attention.  unfortunately, news o' violence in the middle east and africa is so common that it westerners rare pay attention to such stuff.  have a story that only 150 people died in africa and middle east in 2015 due to sectarian violence and THAT would be a story. is terrible, but we expect violence and bloodshed in the middle east.  is not news if is ordinary?  maybe.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 15, 2015 by Gromnir

[BruceVC]

 

 

as an aside, malaysia still has f/a EIGHTEEN hornets in its air force, and has had such for many years.  those hornets were not sold as empty shells.  they has been continually upgraded via a contract with boeing. as recently as may o' 2015, malaysia was buying AIM-120 AMRAAM from the US in an effort to maintain their hornets.

 

recently, malaysia were OFFERED f/a 18 e/f super hornets, but malaysia decided to choose russian alternatives.

 

what sorta nonsense is malaysia media spinning, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Like i said, America never give a fair deal, but that doesn't mean we no longer have dealings with USA...Presiden Obama just visited Malaysia you know...he come with a treaty, another unfair deal...the TTPA...

 

It is a convenient the president visit us after the incident of MH370 and MH17............we know your game........

 

calling bs.  if deal were so bad, then why were f/a 18 e/f a finalist along with grippen and russian su 30 mkms in malaysia's recent attempt to upgrade air force?  malaysia continued to get hornet support from boeing and the us dod in the form o' continued training hardware upgrades. you are being fed bs from your media and naive if you think that the us provided empty hornet shells to malaysia over a decade ago and that malaysia has continued to cooperate with us to upgrade, maintain, and train pilots for those hornets... as well as making new hornets a finalist for their recent fighter aircraft upgrade.

 

nonsense.

 

all o' which is so utterly irrelevant to what is going on in paris and the middle east and africa.

 

aside, we agree with bruce and others that focus on paris is unfortunate but understandable.  we personal were annoyed when the charlie hebdo stuff were occupying headlines when at similar time an entire town in northern nigeria were razed by boko haram.  we complained 'bout the lack o' sympathy for the folks o' baga on these boards (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66161-boko-haram-and-the-kidnpping-of-the-school-girls/?p=1556307) nigeria claims that 150 people  were killed and and thousands displaced (as opposed to the estimates o' anywhere from 1000 to 2000 fatalities from more objective sources). baga shoulda' garnered more attention.  unfortunately, news o' violence in the middle east and africa is so common that it westerners rare pay attention to such stuff.  have a story that only 150 people died in africa and middle east in 2015 due to sectarian violence and THAT would be a story. is terrible, but we expect violence and bloodshed in the middle east.  is not news if is ordinary?  maybe.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Gromnir why do feel the need to debate  like this with Qistina ?

 

You can't really feel the need to win this debate and it should be obvious that there is a language translation problem and lack of overall insight on certain matters,,,,this is not Zora you are debating with, with him you always have to win