Appropriate level for Cragholdt Bluff / White March ?

[Mangamina]

Funny how everybody says they've been massacred at Craigholdt (in so many words) at this level or that level but all except one don't say what difficulty they've been playing at.  PoTD or Hard, with the other difficulties it should be a cakewalk.  Anyway, just wanted to say I went into the area with a full party with all but one at level 10 (my hireling is at 9), on the Hard difficulty.  The first couple of battles I lost but then I adjusted a few things and my tactics (spread out or their mages will wipe you out).  I feel pretty good about it, now I've been marching my way through the whole area the first quarter of the area picking up all kinds of loot. I will say, the grimoires you pick up will pretty much fill up your spell book so if you missed some spells during the levelling process or picked some you really don't like, you will get the ones you want here.  Also like Boerer said other loot you might want to hang on to are the exceptional items such as arquebusae and pistolae ( ) and then you can enchant them later as needed. Or if you don't want any of it, sell the stuff for a bundle.  All in all a very fun and challenging place to explore albeit I'm a bit late getting to it playing with the console version.

  

The last post on this thread was over a year ago, so I don't know if they've eventually found the right tactics to win here and just dropped it or what.  

  

Well I spoke too soon didn't I? Haha joke's on me !    Went into an area (I won't mention it due to possible spoiler) and it didn't turn out well after 3 tries, I realized level 13 is about right as mentioned above.     

  

Update 23MAR18:  I was able to get to the castle after defeating Baelorin and company at level 10 with difficulty on hard.  Albeit, it took a lot of forethought and equipment upgrades and etc., and a couple save reloads    It was a blast! I have really enjoyed the challenge.  Now I'll save entering the castle for later.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Mangamina

[fgalkin]

I went there around level 13 on Hard, had a good fight with Baelorin completely unprepared. It was a close thing, but ultimately I lost, so I went, "meh, I'll come back later." Came back around level 15 and it was a breeze. 

[master guardian]

@OP

 

try and leave most of the white march expansions towards the end of the game and try to complete most of the main game first

 

you can criss cross over and do both at the same time of course but generally try to do the origainal game first 

 

The white march second expansion is for much suited to high level chracters then the end game of the original. 

 

If you do it the opporsite way around you will find it way to easy even if you level scale

[Mangamina]

@OP

 

try and leave most of the white march expansions towards the end of the game and try to complete most of the main game first

 

you can criss cross over and do both at the same time of course but generally try to do the origainal game first 

 

The white march second expansion is for much suited to high level chracters then the end game of the original. 

 

If you do it the opporsite way around you will find it way to easy even if you level scale

I put that premise to the test and defeated Baelorin at level 10 on Hard difficulty, so it can be done.  

 

So why try to do it at level 10 instead of waiting until level 13?  Well because I like the loot and the experience (not XP but my own personal experience) of how to handle much higher level opponents.  I left Craigholdt victorious and went back to the Od Nua dungeon level 8 and found the "charming" Fampyrs no problem at all.  In this game though, I don't want to say ANYTHING is a breeze because as soon as I say that I run into a humiliating defeat (pride comes before a fall  ).

Edited March 25, 2018 by Mangamina

[master guardian]

good well done if you are doing well

 

trust me the game gets easier and easier every time you start a new play through

 

I struggle to play the game now because it is to easy for me (completed over 1000 hrs)

 

I dont want to solo it because the micro would be insane and i probably wouldn't have the patience for it

[The Sharmat]

I can't imagine playing it on console does anything but make it harder, at that. Consider that honorary Path of the Damned, Mangamina.

[Mangamina]

I can't imagine playing it on console does anything but make it harder, at that. Consider that honorary Path of the Damned, Mangamina.

 

Thank you Sharmat and Master Guardian, it took all I could muster equipment enchanted fully as possible, choosing the right place to lure in the battle, the right tactics during battle.  For example, just south of where Baelorin and his men meet you on the road, there's some barricades separating a field to the southwest.  I was able to draw his men there and divide the battle into 3 individual fronts.  Once the battle ensued for a minute, I had my wizard slide OUTSIDE the barricade onto the road to have a view of the enemies concentrated on other targets, this completely blindsided the captain's men and had the wizard spam rolling flame and crackling bolt (and the kitchen sink).  I had a ranger move north in between two other barricades and start firing away, this drew off more of Baelorin's men, they could not concentrate their attack on my whole party.  Divide and conquer was my tactic here.  

  

Now it's on to a completely different kind of target, the Adra Dragon on the 15th level of Od Nua, a single target, nothing to divide and conquer.  Because of my experience from having defeated Baelorin, I was able to plow down to the 14th level fairly easily.  I have a feeling I may be running into a brick wall when I get down to the 15th level and may not be able to defeat it until later levels.  Would that be a feat to defeat the Adra Dragon at level 10 on hard difficulty?

Edited March 29, 2018 by Mangamina

[Drowsy Emperor]

I went there on level 13 and destroyed everything. Confuse/Charm make every big fight a cakewalk. Except the skeletons, they obliterated me from the cave entrance. 

 

Just a matter of not letting the spellcasters get killed when being bum rushed by a bunch of close combat enemies.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

I can't imagine playing it on console does anything but make it harder, at that. Consider that honorary Path of the Damned, Mangamina.

 

Thank you Sharmat and Master Guardian, it took all I could muster equipment enchanted fully as possible, choosing the right place to lure in the battle, the right tactics during battle.  For example, just south of where Baelorin and his men meet you on the road, there's some barricades separating a field to the southwest.  I was able to draw his men there and divide the battle into 3 individual fronts.  Once the battle ensued for a minute, I had my wizard slide OUTSIDE the barricade onto the road to have a view of the enemies concentrated on other targets, this completely blindsided the captain's men and had the wizard spam rolling flame and crackling bolt (and the kitchen sink).  I had a ranger move north in between two other barricades and start firing away, this drew off more of Baelorin's men, they could not concentrate their attack on my whole party.  Divide and conquer was my tactic here.  

  

Now it's on to a completely different kind of target, the Adra Dragon on the 15th level of Od Nua, a single target, nothing to divide and conquer.  Because of my experience from having defeated Baelorin, I was able to plow down to the 14th level fairly easily.  I have a feeling I may be running into a brick wall when I get down to the 15th level and may not be able to defeat it until later levels.  Would that be a feat to defeat the Adra Dragon at level 10 on hard difficulty?

 

 

I couldn't beat him on hard at level 11/12. Then again, I'm a lazy player - I never used consumables during the entire game, don't bother to optimize and upgrade my equipment for everyone, (I just tend to do it for the PC because I'm biased like that) and just make do with abilities, maybe an inn bonus. Still I get away with it on my first playthrough on Hard+Expert. At level 13 I beat his face in. Tells you more about the game than about my skills really.

 

I'm sure it can be done (without cheese) at a lower level with adequate prep work. It's just about keeping the dragon out of the fight for the most part, one way or another. 

 

I seem to remember that dragons were much more potent in Baldur's Gate 2 but my memory is so fuzzy I might be wrong. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[Mangamina]

I couldn't beat him on hard at level 11/12. Then again, I'm a lazy player - I never used consumables during the entire game, don't bother to optimize and upgrade my equipment for everyone, (I just tend to do it for the PC because I'm biased like that) and just make do with abilities, maybe an inn bonus. Still I get away with it on my first playthrough on Hard+Expert. At level 13 I beat his face in. Tells you more about the game than about my skills really.

 

I'm sure it can be done (without cheese) at a lower level with adequate prep work. It's just about keeping the dragon out of the fight for the most part, one way or another. 

 

I seem to remember that dragons were much more potent in Baldur's Gate 2 but my memory is so fuzzy I might be wrong. 

 

 

I'm about to go to the 15 dungeon-level to face it now, thanks for the advice.  I'm sure there's no achievement for beating enemies way above your level, however there is a lot of satisfaction in doing so.  I'm still in Act 2 so if the Adra Dragon turns out to be a "brick wall," I'll move on to the main quest again since I've done everything on the side that I can possibly do.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Yes, the most fun I had in this game was pushing Endless Paths with my party from the start and trying to see how far I could get before I was hopelessly outclassed. However, this is quite misleading because it's far easier to clear the dungeon than it is to beat the dragon, so you get into a situation in which you wonder if you made some critical mistake - because you were steamrolling the dungeon and all of a sudden the dragon is steamrolling you. But that's just the way it was designed, the difficulty of the final levels of Endless paths goes from strolling on a gentle incline, to climbing Mt. Everest when you face the dragon.

[Mangamina]

Yes, the most fun I had in this game was pushing Endless Paths with my party from the start and trying to see how far I could get before I was hopelessly outclassed. However, this is quite misleading because it's far easier to clear the dungeon than it is to beat the dragon, so you get into a situation in which you wonder if you made some critical mistake - because you were steamrolling the dungeon and all of a sudden the dragon is steamrolling you. But that's just the way it was designed, the difficulty of the final levels of Endless paths goes from strolling on a gentle incline, to climbing Mt. Everest when you face the dragon.

 

My style too, so far I have just surpassed the Cragholdt area before even moving onto White March before I even knew I could go there first!  I thought you had to conquer Cragholdt before you could move on to White March  !!! For my mistake I have loads of loot of which I will not name here for spoiler reasons (and some satisfaction from beating higher ranked opponents on Hard). I was going to see how far I could go before continuing the main quest in Act II.  I have put off the Adra dragon after failing like you said, but went back to the castle at Cragholdt.  I never did finish the area before after beating Baelorin, I went back to the main quest to clear Heritage Hill so I could speak the language, then onto Od Nua where I fought my way all the way to dungeon level 15.  After talking to the dragon, several npcs and I were promoted a level to 11.  I had read an earlier post that if you could beat Baelorin you would have no problem with the remainder of Cragholdt.  This person was correct; it wasn't easy but I had also gained a level before I returned, everyone but one (hireling) had levelled to 11. So still, level 11 is below 13.  Not bad, it took some time, and it wasn't easy.  A LOT of fun!

Edited April 2, 2018 by Mangamina

[Drowsy Emperor]

Make sure to tackle the White Marches ASAP. This part of the game was completely ruined for me because I walked in with a level 13-14 party and steamrolled everything, even on Upscaled Hard difficulty. 

[Boeroer]

Yes, lvl 8 is more appropriate.

[Mangamina]

I went into Stalwart briefly (ONCE I fingered out I could go there before Cragholdt) and misplayed the fire business so I reloaded a save and went on to finish the Cragholdt castle. My brief visit to Stalwart yielded that it was fairly easy to beat the ogres at level 10 but I took note on what to do with saving those people in the fire for when I went in for real.  I will say at level 11 the battle with Concelhaut at the castle wasn't easy but I beat him on the first try, then I got the Siege Of Cragholdt achievement, quite rewarding on the Hard level (and the loot WOW)!  But as far as the level imbalance at Stalwart, might be a good "vacation" to plow through some enemies for a change  .  

  

UPDATE:   It's been a plow, but you run into a big rock once and a while.  I'm trying to decide whether I want to go on to the Adra now (the whole team has reached level 12 now).

Edited April 6, 2018 by Mangamina

[Ignatius]

I'm amazed people didn't get the message from available dialogue that Craigholdt is wicked hard. It is approaching immersion breaking as is. The chair was throwing up neon signs about how dangerous the place was.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Ignatius

[The Sharmat]

Yeah, she basically explicitly says "level up more first".

[Mangamina]

Yeah, she basically explicitly says "level up more first".

I got the message but I didn't take heed at level 10 and I'm all the better for it (got the achievement, tons of loot, new spells, and experience to prove it).  Immersion breaking? Nah, nobody is ever in a perfectly balanced area, where you're supposed to be w.r.t. your level and the "area level."  If the game allows it, I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna try it, if that's immersion breaking then go play your perfect game (I don't think it exists).  

  

Also, just defeated The Master Below (Adra dragon); it turns into an easy battle when you use the stand-off approach, only used the paralyze scroll once at the coup-de-grace stage.  The whole party was Level 13 on Hard difficulty.  I think that was the recommended level (13) for taking on this beast so it was a politically correct battle .

Edited April 15, 2018 by Mangamina

[The Sharmat]

Well you're clearly better at the game than most players. Good on you, but you're not someone that complained about the alleged lack of warning I'm going to guess.

[Mangamina]

No please I am not looking to show any game prowess over anybody else, everyone takes their own path through the game, that's the beauty of it.  My ineptness at how to travel around the map made me think I had to do Cragholdt first, it wasn't what the steward said, I heard her say I should level up more.  White March map was available to travel to the whole time (after WM showed up on the map); on the PS4 version I didn't see the option below the map for WM.  Instead I saw on the map Cragholdt and then White March further east, and I couldn't arrow over to White March, but I could to Cragholdt from Cad Nua. So that's why I thought I had to go there first.  It took me a while to complete the whole Cragholdt map, I'm not saying it was easy; it also took a lot of time at level 10.  It helped me learn a LOT about the mechanics of the game and it's battle system.  So this expertise helped me out tremendously in defeating the Adra dragon too and getting through all of WM1 (except I haven't fought the Alpine dragon yet).  

 

I'm a relative newcomer to this game but not to this style of game, I have played all of the Bioware series, Divinity OS.   I am lucky enough to have you wonderful people who funded and played the game 3 years ago to read up on bugs and info (I didn't read spoilers until after I had done something).  Thank you for the Kickstarter and getting this game made!  

  

Update:  Just killed the Alpine Dragon, it took 3 tries at level 14 on Hard difficulty.  Treacherous battle, had to keep moving around to get away from ole' Frostbreath.  No real cheesing going on, just a lot of moving around and buffs and debuffs.  If there was any cheesing, it was the Twin Stones scroll, but only twice.  Now on to finish Durgan's Battery and thus all of the White March 1.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Mangamina

[Phenomenum]

Lvl 11 on POtD difficulty. Tough fights but doable with proper party (Rogue/Druid MC, Pallegina, Kana, Aloth, Durance, G-Mother). Only one fight makes me insane - with 5 DeadthGuards + several zombies near the enter of Counceloth stronghold. I've replayed this encounter 3 or 4 times, becose all of my chars were knocked out for 10-15 sec. and were ripped into shreds.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Phenomenum

[Mangamina]

Is Counceloth you mention the stronghold at Cragholdt Bluff?  Everybody seems to have their "Waterloo" in this game, with the dragons for me it may have been a mental block however, after defeating the Capt. Baelorin, getting from that battle location to the castle entrance DID present some complications yes!

[Phenomenum]

Is Counceloth you mention the stronghold at Cragholdt Bluff?  Everybody seems to have their "Waterloo" in this game, with the dragons for me it may have been a mental block however, after defeating the Capt. Baelorin, getting from that battle location to the castle entrance DID present some complications yes!

Sorry, it was my grammar mistake. I mean 5 Ancient Death Guards + 2 or 3 Alguls AFTER defeating Captain Baelorin - just before the enter of Concelhault dungeon/stronghold. For me, it was toughest fight in game, including bouties. May be, becose underlevel (11), or becose my wry hands

Edited April 25, 2018 by Phenomenum

[Mangamina]

Yes that was what I thought you meant, not too many people mention this little march to the castle but yes, I was level 11 too and it wasn't easy.  So?  You were level 11 (PoTD, I was on Hard) when conquering this area?  That's awesome, you are a Phenomenum! 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mangamina

[Phenomenum]

Yes that was what I thought you meant, not too many people mention this little march to the castle but yes, I was level 11 too and it wasn't easy.  So?  You were level 11 (PoTD, I was on Hard) when conquering this area?  That's awesome, you are a Phenomenum! 

Yes, lvl 11 and got 12th level right after defeating Concelhault (on second try).