Pollaxe + arquebus, rogue or fighter or what, stupid or what?

[Jarmo]

Think I'll finally start playing sometime after 2.0.

 

How badly would I be gimping myself if I went with the said weapons with a rogue? Or fighter?

2 weapon categories need 2 talents?

 

All rogue suggestions seem to be for dual wielding 2 light weapons or going ranged.

Also sounds like fighter builds are for heavy armor + big shield, stand around getting hit but not doing anything.

 

Also how useful is armor actually? Is wearing a brigandine going to be of more use or harm?

I mean, if damage reduction is like 5 points, do the critters hit for 8 or 76 points?

[evilcat]

If you like you can do 2H rogue. However, rogues gain massive damage bonus from abilities, so they want more attack speed, which favours 2 weapon style. 

Dual sabre rogue is just as good as any other.

Also going Ruffian Weapon Focus include also Pistol for range. Ruffian even include Stilletos if you want to switch to fast weapon.

 

If you havent played yet, very early in the game you could get Fighter Companion with a mixed stats (could be build as either tank, or dps). Rogue NPC will be somewhere deeper in the game.

 

Armor is very useful. ;-)

There is no armor specing, so you can try different kind of armors and switch to other. If going dps, you can start with chainmail and then try lighter and lighter.

Small mobs hit for 10-20 dmg, bigger for 30-40 damage.

[Boeroer]

Two weapon categories means two talent points which equals bad. You can of course use two handed weapons with a rogue. I would say estocs are one of the best weapon type for rogues. Dual wielding sabres is king, but the differences are not that big that I would say you would be gimped. Estoc or pollaxe and warbow is a good choice. Or greatsword or pike and arbalest. Sabres and pistols: also nice. I all depends which weapons you will find and how early you can find them. So in my opinion Weapon Focus Soldier is one of the best choice you can make: Tidefall greatsword, Tall Grass pike and Hold Wall (later Aedrin's Wrecker) are some of the best weapons in the game. Plus: you can get them very early. Same with ruffian: Resolution sabre, Jolting Touch stiletto, Oidrwhattheheck stiletto, Disappointer pistol - all early in the game. What use is a superduper item when you get it very late? Like the Purgatory sabre for example.

[gkathellar]

If you're committed to 2handing, Arquebus/Greatsword is better. They use the same weapon focus, and Tidefall is usually the first superb weapon in the game (and one of the best in general).

[Nobear]

If you like you can do 2H rogue. However, rogues gain massive damage bonus from abilities, so they want more attack speed, which favours 2 weapon style. 

 

The other benefit of dual wielding is that the active abilities (like Blinding Strike and Crippling Strike) are instant attacks based on attacking with both hands. A two-hander does a bit more damage than a one-hander, but not near twice as much, so your special active abilities will also be significantly more powerful dual-wielding with two slow one-handers like sabres.

 

As far as whether you can play a rogue with a two-hander, sure you can. In that case, though, you may want to consider a reach weapon, so that you can at least have the advantage of not taking as much damage. You can have your rogue swinging over the head of a tank, for instance, and this will help with bad pathing issues at chokepoints as well.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Nobear

[Boeroer]

That's the main reason that dual wielding rogues have better dps: that their special attacks are full attacks that deny recovery between the two weapons. Very powerful indeed. And you're also right about reach weapons. With tall grass and a good hit to crit ratio you will have a very potent rogue that does't get hit a lot.

[Jarmo]

Well darn. How about a fighter then?

 

I rather like the pollaxes though.. and firearms. Definitely don't want to not use a warbow if the game has firearms.

So, how crippling is it to spend two talents to have two weapon sets. Do you get like.. 5 or 10 talents throughout the game?

 

And if a fighter wants to be effective with 2-hander weapon, is it a good idea to go with light or heavy armor?

[Boeroer]

You get a talent point every two levels. Maximum level is 12. Now we can do the math... Talent points are rare.

 

 

With a two hander, a fighter might need thicker armour, because he will get hit more often. But that's only if you want to tank with him. If the fighter is not your main tank then he will be fine with light or medium armour. But I have to admit that I don't use fighters a lot so I'm not an expert.

[limaxophobiacq]

You get 6, and given that Greatswords are at least as good as Pollaxes and you get them for free with weapon-focus: soldier together with firearms getting weapon focus: adventurer in addition is a complete waste of a talent.

 

Game isn't punishing enough that this will mean you're screwed or anything like that.

 

Best class for 2-hander is probably Barbarian. Doesn't offer much for ranged combat though.

Edited August 19, 2015 by limaxophobiacq

[Boeroer]

I totally forgot: which difficulty? On normal or hard it's totally ok to do that. I was talking from a PotD perspective. Sorry...

[evilcat]

Well darn. How about a fighter then?

 

I rather like the pollaxes though.. and firearms. Definitely don't want to not use a warbow if the game has firearms.

So, how crippling is it to spend two talents to have two weapon sets. Do you get like.. 5 or 10 talents throughout the game?

 

And if a fighter wants to be effective with 2-hander weapon, is it a good idea to go with light or heavy armor?

 

You can go fighter for either tank or some damage medium armor character.

Overall Soldier set is better for 2h warrior, due to strong greatswords, and better ranged weapon for 2h. Pikes are also interesting weapon choice.   But Adventurer is ok, and maybe you dont need "best".

You can use rifle (Arquebuses) without any related talent, as backup weapon or for opening shot it could be, however for fighter there will be some lose (due to Weapon Mastery) so yeah soldier is just better.

6 Talents total

Fighter 2H spec is 5 talents. 6th you will get late in game so it will be vanity talent (and you will notice what you lack)

I like talent ganting 3rd weapon slot on melee, since being able to switch to 1h+ shield in hard moments is better than dieying.

You dont have to to decide on armor at any giving point, could swap, or keep backup armor in inventory.

Heavy Plate is very convinient. But maybe you could go lower.

Rogue or Barbarian deal more dps with 2h than fighter. But fighters live longer.

 

As long as you do not play PotD play what feels right and cool for you.

Edited August 19, 2015 by evilcat

[Nobear]

I totally forgot: which difficulty? On normal or hard it's totally ok to do that. I was talking from a PotD perspective. Sorry...

 

Good point. Jarmo, it sounds like flavor is very important to you, and the game is quite beatable with almost any setup below PoTD. One thing I find, though, is that new players often focus all their attention on one character. Are you planning to solo, play with a full party of six, or something in-between? My advice might vary significantly depending on these factors.

 

One thing you should know, though, is that Fighter would be the worst class for having two weapon foci, because it's not only one of your six talents for each weapon focus you choose, but Fighters can also choose an ability and another class-specific talent to grant +15% and +10% bonus damage with a weapon class, respectively. These abilities and talents are all optional, of course, but without them, Fighters have very little in the way of class-related damage boosts. They are, after all, meant to be balanced with tanking also heavily in mind.

 

In the end, PoE is very flexible, with every class being able to use both melee and ranged weapons, so eat your heart out if you want to experiment with any of them. Even suboptimal builds and party compositions are certainly viable below PoTD difficulty.

 

Edit: Oh! I almost forgot. Since you're talking about 2.0, there will be soul bound weapons added in the expansion. IDK how many or what types, but one of their features is that any of them will use whatever weapon focus you have chosen. 2.0 will also allow respecs, so you could have two weapon foci if you want, then respec to just one when you get a soul bound weapon.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Nobear

[Jarmo]

Definitely won't solo. Will choose companions based on who I like most as characters.

Probably will choose one of the lower difficulties, maybe the lowest since I'm actually not expecting to like the combat too much.

Waiting for 2.0 so I can leave the companions to do their AI thing.

 

Also, not at all good with real time party fight games, cheated my way through BG1 and BG2 because easiest setting was too frustrating.

[Nobear]

Definitely won't solo. Will choose companions based on who I like most as characters.

Probably will choose one of the lower difficulties, maybe the lowest since I'm actually not expecting to like the combat too much.

Waiting for 2.0 so I can leave the companions to do their AI thing.

 

Also, not at all good with real time party fight games, cheated my way through BG1 and BG2 because easiest setting was too frustrating.

 

Ok, well Easy should still be easy enough for you to experiment with alternative non optimal builds and characters, and if not, this game has cheat codes too . The good news for you is, though, I can say some of the writing and story and banter between companions at random times can be quite good. Some of it is funny, some serious with an interesting twist here and there. If that's more the kind of thing you play for, I'm pretty confident it'll be worth any frustrations in combat you might have.

 

Also, PoE allows you to skip most of the combat if you want to. Especially if your main character has high Resolve (and, to a lesser degree, Int and Per), you'll be able to talk your way to a non-combat solution for most of the game, with only a few key encounters you pretty much have to fight to progress. There are people who have beat the game with an astonishingly low number of kills. Getting as low as 12 or so probably requires soloing with a stealthy rogue, but you should still be able to avoid the vast majority of all the possible fights in the game with any party.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Nobear

[KDubya]

Taking two different weapon groups is never a good idea. If you want your +6 Accuracy from weapon focus to apply to guns go with soldier for arquebus and pike/greatsword or ruffian for pistol/blunderbuss and various one handed weapons. If you want to use pole axes take Adventurer, as you will spend more time in melee than in ranged combat, and just use whatever firearm you want but without the bonus to accuracy.

 

If you are going with a fighter there is no reason to not take weapon focus, spec and mastery in a single weapon group. This focusing on one group of weapons gives you flexibility inside that group. You get the +6 Accuracy and +25% damage boost to all the weapons which usually includes one handed fast, one handed average speed, ranged and a two hander. Being able to switch between these various weapons and still retain your bonuses is what sets fighters apart from the rest.

 

Better as a fighter to take two weapon styles like sword and shield and two handed or dual wield to further enhance the flexibility aspect. You still will have a "wasted" talent as you can't use them at the same time but you'd be very durable with a sword and shield swap and then hard hitting with a two hander for high DT foes or maximum damage with dual wielding for foes with low DT.

 

If you want someone to just stand in front and be a meat sack better to use a Paladin and get an aura or a Chanter and get some summons or song buffs.

[Jarmo]

Ok, thanks for replies.

After some deliberation, I think I'm rolling with a fighter with Adventurer weapons, main goal pollaxe, probably flail+shield as backup, a firearm without talent for secondary backup + opening shots.

 

That though, leads to a few new questions about build.

 

Thinking of going about average in everything, slightly higher might. Because I don't like to go with a total doofus or super minmaxing anyway.

 

But without going to specific spoilers how do stat based conversation options go?

 

Do they tend to be a specific number, like 15, where having 14 int is just as worthless as having 3?

If so, do they tend to be low, high or real high, like 10, 14, or 18?

Do some stats pop up considerably more often than others, like int and charisma in many D&D games?

[Nobear]

But without going to specific spoilers how do stat based conversation options go?

 

Do they tend to be a specific number, like 15, where having 14 int is just as worthless as having 3?

If so, do they tend to be low, high or real high, like 10, 14, or 18?

Do some stats pop up considerably more often than others, like int and charisma in many D&D games?

 

First, I have still not found the time to play the expansion, and I myself would like to know if there are any new attribute checks higher than 19, or any new skill checks higher than 10.

 

Basically, these numbers (19 and 10) were the upper limits pre-2.0. This post will give you an idea of the relative breakdown of which are most/least common, and of which are most/least "necessary" in the sense of actually being a gameplay advantage vs just affecting RP flavor a bit.

 

The example you gave of 14 Int and 3 Int both equally failing a 15 Int check is spot-on. The lowest attribute checks will be 11, so dumping stats is not penalized in terms of dialogue. Also, if you have 17 of any attribute, you can easily get that to 19 with any of food, an item, an inn resting bonus, or another temporary buff whose source I won't mention since it would be a spoiler. You could pass the check with an even lower base score if you combine these buff sources. The same bonus from multiple instances of the same source type won't stack (for instance, only the highest of each attribute score across your gear is counted; the rest will be labeled "suppressed" on your character sheet), but you can combine bonuses from multiple source types. Each source type will typically give about a +2 bonus, give or take a point.

 

The various skills also vary greatly in the difficulty of their respective checks. Most skill checks are well below 10, but there are some Mechanics checks (e.g. to disarm very deadly traps) of 11. There are gloves that boost Mechanics, but they are a "random" item, and can only be reliably found by breaking the fourth wall and referring to a certain thread someone made explaining how to reverse-engineer the "randomness" of these items.

[curryinahurry]

Ok, thanks for replies.

After some deliberation, I think I'm rolling with a fighter with Adventurer weapons, main goal pollaxe, probably flail+shield as backup, a firearm without talent for secondary backup + opening shots.

 

That though, leads to a few new questions about build.

 

Thinking of going about average in everything, slightly higher might. Because I don't like to go with a total doofus or super minmaxing anyway.

 

But without going to specific spoilers how do stat based conversation options go?

 

Do they tend to be a specific number, like 15, where having 14 int is just as worthless as having 3?

If so, do they tend to be low, high or real high, like 10, 14, or 18?

Do some stats pop up considerably more often than others, like int and charisma in many D&D games?

 

If you go that route, you might want to do a Str, Per, Res, build (perception for to hit and resolve for a bit extra defense), alternately, you can exchange int for resolve if you want to do a knockdown build, but Res will give you more conversation options.  

 

One thing to note about the various checks is that they won't always be the choice you want to make in a conversation.  There have been a few times (3 or 4) when I have gone with a non-skill related answer because it fit my line of thinking better.  This game isn't geared around skill/ attribute check for the win.

[Nobear]

One thing to note about the various checks is that they won't always be the choice you want to make in a conversation.  There have been a few times (3 or 4) when I have gone with a non-skill related answer because it fit my line of thinking better.  This game isn't geared around skill/ attribute check for the win.

 

Right. Even just considering gameplay and not RP, the "best" options (e.g. for the greatest possible quest reward) are not always the ones that require checks. That said, some of them are. Passing checks gives you more options in general, which includes both "good" and "bad" options, gameplay-wise and/or RP-wise.

 

No stats or skills will drastically change the game in terms of checks, but some checks will allow you to avoid certain fights, acquire additional gold or items, or other mildly useful things. Some, conversely, will just piss people off :D. Pretty cool implementation IMHO.

[KDubya]

Also there are no negative impacts of having a 3 for any of the abilities. You never catch the flu due to having a 3 con, or fall down stairs from a 3 dex, or be illiterate from a 3 intellect, having negative effects would have been cool but are not in the game.

 

So if you dump your intellect to a 3 no one thinks you're an idiot, other than perhaps you

[curryinahurry]

I wouldn't dump intellect in a DPS fighter build, between prone and disciplined barrage you get an effective +20.  Add armored grace, decent dex, and a hasted aura (like the one the chanter grants), and on a crit knockdown you might be able to get off 4 attacks while your enemy is prone.  

[KDubya]

I wouldn't dump intellect in a DPS fighter build, between prone and disciplined barrage you get an effective +20.  Add armored grace, decent dex, and a hasted aura (like the one the chanter grants), and on a crit knockdown you might be able to get off 4 attacks while your enemy is prone.  

 

With a fighter spec;d for damage, intellect is the only stat that can be dumped.

 

You want might as high as possible for both damage and for the passive healing.

 

With the new changes to deflection and enemy AI you will take more damage now so dumping constitution is a bad idea and adding points is better now that it is 5% per point.

 

Dexterity is always useful for anyone wanting to output a lot of damage.

 

Perception is the most useful in my opinion now that it affects accuracy. Missing is bad for damage and the tougher the enemy the more important accuracy becomes.

 

Resolve is the only way to add to deflection and is more valuable now that many sources of deflection have been reduced. Concentration to avoid interrupts is also useful for a melee combatant who will be getting hit.

 

Intellect is the only stat that a fighter can dump. It only affects the first abilities taken at level one, either the duration of the knockdown or the duration of the +10 accuracy buff. Every other duration based ability can be avoided without adversely affecting the build. Having a 10 intellect gets you a 5 second knockdown instead of 3.3 seconds but the seven stat points placed in resolve instead get you the same will save, +7 deflection and +21 concentration, both of which are more useful for a melee fighter. 

 

Every other class needs intellect, or at least not dumping it , except for possibly rogues and rangers. Being able to reallocate seven stat points into resolve is one of the few advantages that fighters have compared to Paladins, Monks and Barbarians.

 

 

********* Just got the 2.0 update and realized that Constant Recovery is now affected by Intellect ********

 

Forget everything I ever wrote about dumping intellect as being a good idea for a fighter. On my max might min intellect fighter constant recovery now heals 4 endurance every 3 seconds for 58.5 seconds or 76 points in 19 ticks as opposed to the normal 3 end per 3 seconds for 90 seconds if all were tens. Or the 4 end per tick for 90 if you did not dump intellect would get you 120 endurance in 30 ticks.

 

I suppose it would only come into play if a fight lasted longer than 58 seconds. In trash engagements it would not matter but hard fights can last a fair bit of time especially if you go with a melee heavy slow and steady gameplay style .

Edited September 1, 2015 by KDubya

[curryinahurry]

My 17 int fighter (with bonus items) routinely crits knockdowns for 10 seconds...so most creatures don't get back up after they've been knocked down.  I dumped Resolve and that only to 7 so it's routinely at 10 with items.  for an off tank I would dump con or resolve before Int, but neither to 3. Concentration is valuable, but there are items that can counter both in making resolve and straight concentration.  

 

 Personally I think dumping stats to that level will ultimately be impossible and even now I think it's a bad idea, but ymmv.  Lot's of different approaches, and I'm mostly looking at what the OP said about not wanting to dump any one stat completely.