Pillars of Eternity Multiplayer in the works?

[alexis13]

 

 

surely it can't be hard to add some online? 

A line of code here, new interface there... I'm sure it's something Josh could put together during his lunch break.

 

 

Don't be silly, adding network functionality/multiplayer to a design never intended for it is so simple you can have an intern do it. Why bother JE with it at all?

 

edit:

 

To be a little more serious alexis13, no, adding multiplayer to PoE would not be trivial and most likely, given the target audience of the game, would not lead to enough new sales to justify the expenses and problems.

 

its funny you say that, because I've spoken to many people in the community about how cool it would be for us to be able to play toghether if they added multiplayer.

 

And know they're reponse?  "you got bg?"  Basically going to another game and focusing interest away from this because it has a feature many people want.

 

Just because strangely there seem to be many people with some sort of spiteful hate of multiplayer in this community it doesn't mean there arn't those who are sociable and want to experience things with our old and new friends.

 

You know the best written, well-made, amazing content companion you can get? A real person.

Edited August 12, 2015 by alexis13

[alexis13]

 

I don't understand why people who backed/support a game which used Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, games that had multiplayer, as its main draw be so against mp in PoE. I don't personally care if it has it or not, but I just don't understand why some seem so against it.

 

Can't speak for anyone besides myself, obviously, but for me - it's because MP tends to become the focus, rather than another way of enjoying the game.  It is also more open to abuse by things such as microtransactions.

 

Look at Dragon Age: Inquisition...the developers claim that MP actually improved the SP experience, although the combat in Inquisition is - in my view - the worst of the three games in that series.

 

Perhaps if there was story mode co-op, people here might be more receptive (I don't know that they would, but maybe).  But it seems that - other than Sword Coast Legends - every game that features MP does so as a separate mode.

 

Would Obsidian consider doing campaign co-op as opposed to a separate MP mode?  Don't know, but - and while PoE is clearly running against the current of industry trends - it would seem unlikely.

 

For me, if it includes a 'separate' MP mode, whether 'not required' - like Mass Effect 3, or 'not required, but totally preferred' like Dragon Age: Inquisition, I would be against it, merely on principle.  If it includes a campaign co-op mode, which allows another way of enjoying the main story....sure, why not?

 

There was no microtransactions in bg1-2/IWD/Nwn1-2  also its only the campaign co-op we all want.

[alexis13]

I'm glad folks are keeping it friendly and cool. I won't reiterate the arguments folks have made against using resources on MP other than to point out that I agree with them. Specifically, I don't want folks to be denied something they want, but I'm much more interested in the things *I* want, and those entail aspects more in line with the single player experience.

Are you reading this? doesn't seem so friendly to me lol, seem spiteful and  Us vs them mentality.

 

Though at least you have the honour to admit its because you just want more SP content instead of making up some deceptive bull**** like a typical liar.

 

So gg I respect that.

Edited August 12, 2015 by alexis13

[alexis13]

 

I don't understand why people who backed/support a game which used Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, games that had multiplayer, as its main draw be so against mp in PoE. I don't personally care if it has it or not, but I just don't understand why some seem so against it.

As its 'main draw'? I'll admit, if they added multiplayer a la BG/BG2/IWD?IWD2, it wouldn't bother me (although I'd never use it). But not sure I agree it was the main draw of the old IE games.

 

Yeah even though I want multiplayer I agree with this, I think saying its the main draw is a lie, unlike most people against me on this thread I won't be disingenous even if its against my point, I've got some honour.

 

Though just stating Nwn2 had a HUGE and I mean immense and diverse multiplayer community with all kinds of different custom made worlds aswell as normal co-op single player campaigns, its just because there was some legal issues and both companies lost all rights to the games that the servers fell apart.

 

That being said, even today there are still some custom servers made by individuals that bypass this and they have their custom worlds on there.

[Cantousent]

I'm reading all of this, alexis.  In fact, I was wondering about one of the members talking about getting their heads out of their own posteriors (to paraphrase) and to STFU.  I figured I'd let you vent because you're obviously heavily invested in the debate and it's okay to get a little heated.  However, by and large it has been friendly up until this morning.

 

I don't believe things have been particualrly spiteful, although the irony is that I think R.Alexander got broadsided a bit unfairly from folks much more than you did.  The nature of debate is exactly an 'us versus them' proposition.  ...But remember, you might be on opposite sides of an issue today but find yourselves on the same side on something tomorrow.

 

I'm going to leave everything the way you've put it so far.  Nothing really terrible, but don't let this stuff drive you crazy, alexis.  No one is out to get you and you have the right to speak your mind.  Just try not to bring in references to folks' anatomy if you would please.  :Cant's broad grin icon:

 

EDIT:  Added a word for clarity.

[alexis13]

 

 

Why is MP so critical for a purchase for people in this type of genre? I mean, I really don't see the appeal.

 

PoE is a story-driven, character interaction focused CRPG. What possible benefit would there be to adding Multiplayer, and how would it even work considering the nature of the Companion characters and battle system?

 

I can't speak for others and personally I would prefer other features. But I would enjoy a MP, too. I played a heavily modded BG for about 8 years with my girdlfriend in multiplayer again and again and it would be very nice to have the option to play PoE together, too. Of course it is stupid, the story of the game is so much single player. But I'm nostalgic. Would be fun to kill that ****ing adra-dragon together. Maybe it's just me and all the "We want multiplayer"-guys are in fact hyperactive WoW-kiddies that use computergames as chat platforms, I don't know.

 

How is the story of the game "so much single player" yeah so was BG lol, you could still multiplayer, how does the story restrict you from having a friend help you on your journeys and adventures?

 

Thats exactly what you do with your companions, your friends could make all kinds of lore for themselves, from merc's signing on to you, to just people you meet on the road and ect, whatever they want.

 

Also you said you'd like multiplayer to, to play with your GF so what is ...this "-guys are in fact hyperactive WoW-kiddies that use computergames as chat platforms, I don't know." you just stated your reasons to why you'd want it, why don't you make the logical conclusion that everyone else who wants it is for the same reason, to share the experience with a close person.

 

"wow-kiddies" I swear I'm getting so sick of everyone using the word "kid" "kiddies" its people like you who are the most immature and have the most closed mindedness foolishness of anyone, you just dismiss anyone who is slightly different than you as a "idiot kid" I swear I hear enough of that toxic **** on the LoL community without hearing it here, where I'd expected literally everyone to be better than that.

[alexis13]

 

but I never heard anyone say it ruined those games, only that it added to the experience.

Has anyone said it would ruin PoE? Because all I've seen people say is that it would be difficult, costly, and yield little benefit.

 

Yeah, actually a lot of people have said that, maybe not you, because you're a very rational guy, but just about everyone has a very aggresive and spiteful backlash whenever its very gently brough up, and I think its pretty disgusting if I'm honest.

 

It really speaks to some deep-rooted, complete self involvement.

Edited August 12, 2015 by alexis13

[alexis13]

 

2. change the nature of the game. I don't want my single player game to accommodate multiplayer utility in any way at all.

 

Thats....kinda horrible..why are you so spiteful?

 

I don't understand, do rpgers really hate other people so much? I'm getting serious I don't go into the sunlight vibes.

 

I'd usually disregard that as stereotypes as I love these worlds, you do know the people you would be sharing this with are people like-minded like yourself right? not **** from every day who usually look down on this stuff because they are ignorant right.

 

Seriously don't you have any DnD fan friends you've known for a long time and you talk about the universe with all the time? wouldn't you like to share that universe's experience with them in real time?

[alexis13]

MP was pretty atrocious in the IE games to begin with - as I recall it was more or less cobbled on as an afterthought near the end and I seriously doubt anyone would be satisfied with that sort of implementation for PoE MP.

 

Still my biggest objection is there is never going to come a time when there is nothing left in the single player games that resources could be spent on to make the game better and that's exactly where I want those resources to go.

 

Not every game on the planet needs an MP play option. 

Ok first of all, you are being disingenous, I've played all the multiplayers and they all worked spectacularly for me except Nwn2 and thats because the companies had a fight and all the main servers were removed so you had to make your own.

 

And secondly, and listen to this.

 

DUDE THE GAMES ****ING PHENOMINAL ALREADY! It got 4 MILLION, WAY MORE THAN THEY WANTED FROM BACKERS! INCLUDING ME!

 

THe game has an UNREAL amount of dialogue, its got like 30 different dialogues for each person, in a mix of reacting to your characters reputation and then the different choices you choose and then the other choices that have to do with attributes, its UNBELIEVABLE, its truly praiseworthy and I've never seen a game with such in-depth BONKERS amount of dialogue.

 

The game is nigh perfection, besides some bugs the harshest and most popular critics have marked it as literally the only game worth a damn this year including the witcher 3 with the rest being utter garbage.

 

It also sold IMMENSLY WELL, and they are making a new expansion as we speak, the companies resources are fine, OKAY!?

 

You ****ing act like the games about to fall apart and got nothing to it, I've been playing it for like 2-3 weeks now, solo'd the adra dragon and I'm not even at act 2.

 

There are PLENTY of resources to go around, chill the **** out.

Edited August 12, 2015 by alexis13

[Cantousent]

 

2. change the nature of the game. I don't want my single player game to accommodate multiplayer utility in any way at all.

Thats....kinda horrible..why are you so spiteful?

 

When you throw around words like 'spiteful,' it makes me wonder if you'll actually listen to other views calmly.  However, since I'm reading all of the posts in this thread pretty much in real time, I'm going to try to engage you.  Please read what I'm saying as patiently as I'm typing it.  I'm going to level with you and I hope you give me the chance to explain my position.  I'm not responding with angry fingers.  Please don't read with angry eyes.

 

Unless they do multi-player extremely poorly, they'll absolutely need to change the nature of the single player game. They'll have to assess all sorts of issues in order to accommodate an additional mode. Including a multi-player feature cannot happen in a vacuum, and folks, such as you, who suggest that it will have no other effect than to give folks a chance to play with friends are wrong. Not bad guys. Not evil. Not spiteful or malicious. You're just erroneous. ...Or at least that's my considered opinion. I get that you feel differently. That's fair enough, but I haven't read anything you've said that makes me feel any differently about this issue, and I've read everything you've posted in this thread, and especially carefully since the head in the ass comment.

 

I'm not trying to be spiteful and, in fact, I don't believe I've been spiteful. I'm not a vampire. I often go out into the sunlight. In fact, I hike quite often. I have friends and have had regular DnD groups over the years that met often. However, I have never played a computer game that truly captured the feel of tabletop DnD, and that includes NWN, which I actually didn't like much.

 

So, the long and short is, I don't want the devs to risk anything I like about the single player game by trying to figure out how to include a satisfactory multi-player mode. That's pretty much where I stand and I don't believe I have been hostile or untoward in how I've expressed that opinion. Once again, I'm following this thread closely but I do want you to get your say.

[alexis13]

 

 

I'm with those who oppose adding MP to PoE.  Every dollar spent on MP is a dollar that isn't being spent on improving the game itself.  And that's the biggest reason for opposing MP, perhaps in the end, the only reason that matters.

 

But wouldnt that money be recouped by people buying the game due to multiplayer? So basically it would pay for itself. The only factor implementing multiplayer would take up would be time. It'd take time away from improving single player by implementing multiplayer.

 

 

Fiscally, adding multiplayer would only make sense if the market potential outweighs the financial risk of more post-mortem major feature adding, bugfixing, more patches and added testing overhead in a meaningful way by adding enough sales or if you plan to profit from microtransactions during multiplayer. I don't see either happening for PoE. The former simply because the target audience is too different and the latter would be akin to commiting PR-suicide.

 

What financial risk!? they made PLENTY of money.

 

Why the **** do there need to be microtransactions!? I'm not asking for a ****ing mmo terra garbage online, I'm asking for Lan Co-op, can no one grasp this ridiculously simple concept!?

 

Has no one here every played BG1-2 / IWD / Nwn1 or 2's multiplayers to understand thta I'm clearly, very obviously comparing it to that?

 

You all better have ****ing at most 5 intellect scores on your characters because anything higher is dishonest.

 

Stop spreading mis-information to further your cause.

Edited August 12, 2015 by alexis13

[Cantousent]

Alrighty, we're going to take a little breather. I'll reopen the thread in just a bit after we get a cold drink (water, soda, or beer as your age and inclination dictate). Promise, I'll reopen before I leave the house.

[Cantousent]

Okay, as promised, I'm reopening. I have to leave the house, so I'm counting on you guys to be charitable with one another while I'm gone, especially since I won't be here to read anything for a while! <.< Go ahead and have a lively discussion, but no vendettas!

[sku]

 

It also sold IMMENSLY WELL, and they are making a new expansion as we speak, the companies resources are fine, OKAY!?

 

 

 

I don't think they have a great profit. Passable maybe. 4 millions is nothing when we're talking about AAA game development, with cool voiceover, animation et cetera. And sales are not that great. So, yeah, there is some profit but not "JOSH, YOU CAN NOW BUY AN ISLAND!" kind of magnitude. I think you're overestimating the resources of the company. All that programming stuff is an expensive business, not to mention graphics, audio and old plain game design.

Edited August 12, 2015 by sku

[Nakia]

A co-op game would be fun if I had friends playing the game in time zones close to mine but my friends are spread across the globe.  I have tried some co-op game playing and it usually falls apart after a few weeks. My guess is that Paradox Interactive has the resources to do marketing research and night have a say in this.  The devs have mentioned a a vague possibility that multiplayer option might be considered for a sequel.  However multiplayer is not the same as co-op but would probably have broader appeal.  I would be very sad if the game went multiplayer it just would not be the same type of game.  I never played the multiplayer versions of the IE games so can't judge them.  I did use the feature to create my own characters but we have that already.

[Blarghagh]

I'm not sure if a multiplayer mode would be a satisfying gaming experience. I feel that there's a very large playstyle disparity between classes. I think whoever is playing the tank will give one or two commands for a big fight while a caster will be constantly pausing and doing things. Fun for the caster but the person playing the tank will be bored to tears. Doesn't seem fun if you have to draw straws who gets to take on the most fun roles.

 

I'd rather see Obsidian focus on new excellent features instead of a feature that with the current game mechanics can at most be "okay". I had fun with friends with Baldur's Gate multiplayer but even that was fun because of the friends, the game itself had a lot of frustration. There are a lot of other games that can provide a satisfying gaming experience while still being fun with friends, if Obsidian added multiplayer I can't see Pillars of Eternity being one of them.

 

Just my two cents on the matter. I wouldn't mind if they added a multiplayer mode like Baldur's Gate. I doubt they will and I just don't think it would be very fun.

[Varana]

This. I played a (very powerplayish) BG2+ToB run with a guy from the Netherlands and one from the States, and IWD (or IWD2, can't even remember) with a full party of six from all over Germany. And frankly, it was more about chatting and doing things together than about anything thrown at us by the game. :D That disparity (casters doing lots of stuff, fighters... not so much) was even more pronounced in the IE games.

As I said, I can see why coop mode may be attractive. But it's neither simple nor cheap, technology and player's expectations have skyrocketed, and Obsidian's purse doesn't have endless amounts of money in it, unfortunately.

[Hassat Hunter]

Oh look... another thread were someone thinks it takes an intern 2 days to add MP and then people go screaming and on a true swear-word spree when someone tells them how really costly and resource-intensive it actually is, throwing about such useful stuff like "What financial risk!? they made PLENTY of money" (yeah, I generally dump my payloan check in the garbage too. WHAT COULD POSSIBLE GO WRONG?) or "I'm asking for Lan Co-op, can no one grasp this ridiculously simple concept!?" (Can't grasp that really isn't very simple at all to add to the game, a simple concept apparently hard to grasp).

 

 

You all better have ****ing at most 5 intellect scores on your characters because anything higher is dishonest.

I see a bunch of rational people and then you throwing around an insult-bomb. Sir, you do NOT look like the most intelligent person of this conversation. Not by one bit...

 

Anyways, see you all in 1 month on the next similar topic!

[majestic]

What financial risk!? they made PLENTY of money.

 

Why the **** do there need to be microtransactions!? I'm not asking for a ****ing mmo terra garbage online, I'm asking for Lan Co-op, can no one grasp this ridiculously simple concept!?

 

Has no one here every played BG1-2 / IWD / Nwn1 or 2's multiplayers to understand thta I'm clearly, very obviously comparing it to that?

 

You all better have ****ing at most 5 intellect scores on your characters because anything higher is dishonest.

 

Stop spreading mis-information to further your cause.

 

 

The money they made off PoE may or may not be "plenty" - we don't know any true sales figures and we really don't know about the actual game budget except for a few rumors about it being 6 million dollars (or more - but definitely ABOVE the Kickstarter budget). What we do know is that Obsidian was in financial dire straits before the Project Eternity Kickstarter and close to having to shut down, so it's not too unreasonable to expect that some debt was settled by the income - but that is just speculation as well. The one spreading misinformation here is you.

 

You bemoan that people apparently don't understand your simple and reasoned post, but you did your best to misunderstand mine. I said that if you want to add multiplayer to Pillars of Eternity it would either have to increase sales enough to recoup the development cost or, if it would not, add some other way to reap enough cash to justify the resources spent, for instance with microtransactions.

 

It is a financial risk insofar as there is little to guarantee that the added multiplayer will ever amortize itself, let alone actually turn in a profit. That's the way how business works if you do not have a steady source of income capable of buffering losses from high-risk projects (think of Google and their myriad side projects) - that is also why Pillars of Eternity was largely funded through Kickstarter instead of the usual publishing system.

 

Oh, and by the way, stop lumping the Infinity and Aurora engine games together - especially when you consider that NWN was designed from the ground up with user-built single and multiplayer modules in mind. If anything, it makes you look disingenuous.

[Cyseal]

I don't like MP but co-op should be implemented in POE2.  But difficulty should scale also with more challenge.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Cyseal

[Lord_Mord]

 

How is the story of the game "so much single player" yeah so was BG lol, you could still multiplayer, how does the story restrict you from having a friend help you on your journeys and adventures?

 

Not really. Baldurs Gate wasn't that serious. And didn't have that mach dialogue. Everytime one of that romance and friendship mods are popping up, the game just stops and pLayer 2 has to read throught the whole thing, while player 1 picks her/his options. Just imagine that in PoE. Lots of pages with lots of text about soul this and that and pick your answer wise. That means  a lot of reading and doing nothing for player 2. Then the dialog options in BG are rather simple. Often you only have the choice between good guy, bad guy, I only want the money and sometimes a funny clever guy thing. You can pick whatever you want, depending on your mood. But in PoE you can't just say: "Yeah, fk that guy, he sucks, lets kill him". That would be very immersion breaking. All in all, theres too much single-player-immersion-stuff and too much depth in it for it to be that fun in MP. Not that I wouldn't enjoy it still. But to be honest: It isn't necessary.

 

 

 

Thats exactly what you do with your companions, your friends could make all kinds of lore for themselves, from merc's signing on to you, to just people you meet on the road and ect, whatever they want.

 

Indeed. But that would require a lot of work. Player 2 (3,4,5,6) should be able to talk to everyone and have non-watcher-optiones just for her/him. That would consume a lot of time and money.

 

 

Also you said you'd like multiplayer to, to play with your GF so what is ...this "-guys are in fact hyperactive WoW-kiddies that use computergames as chat platforms, I don't know." you just stated your reasons to why you'd want it, why don't you make the logical conclusion that everyone else who wants it is for the same reason, to share the experience with a close person.

"wow-kiddies" I swear I'm getting so sick of everyone using the word "kid" "kiddies" its people like you who are the most immature and have the most closed mindedness foolishness of anyone, you just dismiss anyone who is slightly different than you as a "idiot kid" I swear I hear enough of that toxic **** on the LoL community without hearing it here, where I'd expected literally everyone to be better than that.

 

As I said. I don't really "want" it. I would use it and it would be fun. But I accept, that it just does not fit. I don't want a game that does absolutely everthing I liked in the past. I want a good game. And I enjoyed playing it and afterwards sharing my experiences with my GF, either. She played it in a totally different manner.

 

And regarding the kiddies: Sorry, I meant no offense. I just wanted to express the fact, that I don't understand anymore what is happening in the game industry. I dont understand WoW and why it is there. I dont like it and I cant imagine anyone who likes it, so I assume, that it is a generation thing (Even if I know people in my age, that like that kind of stuff). What I wanted to say here is, that I don't know, if the people that want multiplayer are like me (That means just nostalgic) or what I call hyperactive WoW kiddies (That means people that simply can't imagine sitting in front of the computer and playing an interesting story just for themselves).

 

Oh. And I think you knew what I wanted to say. That's why you cut my sentence in half.

[Crucis]

What it all comes down to is this for me.  Every dollar and every man-hour spent on anything MP related is a dollar or man hour not spent on improving the actual game.  And even if there was a kick starter put together to pay for the money side of such a project, I'd personally still object to it because the man hours required to do the work would be man hours not spend on improving the actual game.

 

My opinion is that if you're so hot to trot to play a multiplayer game, then go find one that is MP.  And leave PoE alone so that its devs con concentrate on making it the best solo game it can be.

[Cantousent]

Strictly speaking, if they had a kickstarter for MP, then the people who *really* want to support MP will be the people pledging. If they can create a budget based on such a kickstarter, then it would supposedly not take away from anything because it's self funded. I doubt it would garner sufficient support to be worthwhile, but I'm always for eating my words as long as the other side can make it taste good enough to eat.

 

EDIT: I added words. Apparently, I can eat my words better than I can type them. Especially after a certain point of the evening and consumption.

[Spirtikus]

Hey is Multiplayer in the works? so many people wanted it and whilst I'm not sure, surely it can't be hard to add some online? don't even need servers, just give us the IP option for people ot use LAN and its basically just the main game but with anotehr real person controlling another custom companion of their own design.

 

It doesn't seem to complex to add, it was just a simple extra party member controlled by friends over the internet for the BG/NWN/IWD games.

 

Are you guys thinking about adding it? I actually put off buying this game for months because it simply didn't have it, you could get a LOT more sales and I'm dying to play it with my friends, we are all dying to play it toghether.

No, just no.

[Lord_Mord]

Just because of interest: What is the difference between CoOp and MP? Is it that you can fight against other players in MP? Would that make such a difference for the developers?