Where does a Intellect Paladin fit in the party.

[Torm51]

So a heavy Intellect Paladin just seems not good at much yet to maximize your support abilities heavy int is the way to go.  Thing is a Paladin at the max (meaning level 12) if he takes all Exhortations at every possible level has about 3 to 4targeted abilities which he can use twice a fight (LoH and all Exhortations you can get) +his aura.  If you go for an 18 int you have to dump Dex and tank leaving you on the frontline which is a bad position  If you have to heal with LoH it will require you to move.  I would think a heavy int paladin is a supporter that belongs on the 2nd line and not tanking.  You don't have A LOT of abilities like a priest so you have to SOMETHING other then support.  If you aren't tanking that leaves damage dealing.....If you go heavy Int you cant dump Dex meaning you need Might and Dex....you would have to grab a mediocre might and dex (like 14 to 15 a piece) as dumping Per and Res is bad even for a offensive Paladin.  How would you build a heavy int Paladin? 

[Gromnir]

our high intellect paladin makes a fantastic tank.  

 

there is a continuing misconception about the impact o' attributes in poe.  an ideal attribute distribution is far less vital in poe than in many other games.  pumping and dumping is what folks do in other games, so is assumed it is equal necessary in poe.  the developers purposeful avoided that pitfall.

 

m 10

c 9

d 10

p 15

i 18 (19)

r 16

 

once you get to defiance bay, you can have a near constant +4 to intelligence via a resting bonus.  add the horny-demon helm o' +2 intellect, and you is boosting by 6 points.  nevertheless, regardless o' attributes, our efficacy as a tank is more a matter o' our class, talent choices and abilities.  attributes is an important factor, but we get valuable pay-off by focusing on intellect as 'posed to might or dexterity or constitution.

 

our darcozzi paladini were extreme efficacious as a zealous focus tank.  with faith and convictions fully buffed and maximizing deflection on our outworn buckler, we had an extreme durable tank that were also boosting the accuracy and defenses o' all our fellow party members.  moreover, with high intellect, we could also use inspiring liberation and hastening exhortation that had durations that would endure throughout even the most lengthy battles.   give 2 party mates +10 accuracy and increased attack rate means Gromnir's paladin tank wouldn't need to tank very long save for a couple rare battles... and in those cases, our high lore meant that we could use any number o' different scrolls to effective end most battles. 

 

we also got a ranged kind wayfarer that has relative high int, and is an ideal secondary support character.  our ranged paladin is a wood elf with adventurer focus that has the various kill triggered abilities and talents.  armed with a war bow, might and intellect is actual our main attributes.  we boost intense flames not 'cause we thinks it is a particular useful damage enhancer, but 'cause we know that we can get a guaranteed kill when using flames o' devotion, which then triggers our paladin support abilities.  sworn enemy might actual be overkill, but we take it anyways.  the lack o' inspiring liberation is a serious shortcoming for the kind wayfarer compared to our darcozzi paladini, but with high intellect, we get sizeable increases in the duration o' exhortations and inspiring triumphs.

 

aside: with 2.0, we may put a few more points into constitution and/or resolve for our tank.  inability to stack both resolve and perception for deflection will require a bit o' retooling, which is a shame given that we prefer the dialogue options from high perception, intellect and resolve. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[HoopleDoople]

My Darcozzi Paladin has high Intellect and I couldn't imagine lowering it.

 

For one high INT allows for more consistent aura coverage. Zealous Focus is a huge asset to my team, particularly since I'm lacking a Priest. The bonus accuracy, graze to hit, and eventual hit to crit (with the relevant talent) are always welcome and pair nicely with the many weapons I'm using with effects on crit. A Priest can certainly replicate most aura bonuses, but it takes time. Having more immediate bonuses (particularly for your initial strike) and lessening the buff load of the Priest is nice.

 

The most important reason for high INT, however, is to extend the duration of Liberating Exhortation (buffed by the Liberating Exhortation talent). You can give one character +20 accuracy or two characters +10 accuracy each. I absolutely love to drop the +20 accuracy bonus on a Cipher wielding Borresaine. This allows for an absurd amount of high duration CC. In standard battles the extra duration of Liberating Exhortation isn't usually needed but in the toughest battles you'll be glad you have it.

 

To get yourself the necessary attribute points an easy place to start is by dumping Constitution. Paladin durability primarily comes from massive defenses and the health/endurance hit isn't too severe. Everything else is a bit of a sacrifice, as you'll have to sacrifice deflection, damage, or speed. I personally opted for something like 10/3/10/18/19/18 and it has been working great for me so far.

[Torm51]

I appreciate the detailed response Gromnir.  I just hate having a low Fort save.  Granted with Faith and Conviction it will not be that low but having no bonuses to a certain defense bothers me as a tank.  Guess you cant have it all...and you almost do as a Paladin thanks to Faith and Con.

[Torm51]

Also I know Darcozzi are damn good.  I just hate playing Passionate but it is what it is.  Again cant have it all.  A Darcozzi will likely be my next Paladin for that reason.  Accuracy buff is hard to pass up although I really haven't missed it much in my current PoTD iron man run (which I think I am ending because of a bug to Eder's quest...).

[Gromnir]

I appreciate the detailed response Gromnir.  I just hate having a low Fort save.  Granted with Faith and Conviction it will not be that low but having no bonuses to a certain defense bothers me as a tank.  Guess you cant have it all...and you almost do as a Paladin thanks to Faith and Con.

faith and convictions does make a big difference.  we can't imagine dropping might or con any further on a tank 'cause o' the fort save issue you identify, but thanks to the aforementioned paladin quality, coupled with judicious usage o' consumables, we more than simple manage...  though we do concede that til we get faith and convictions pumped a bit, it makes sense to rely a bit on a second tank.  regardless, a +22 fort save bonus does make the unimpressive might and con easier to bear.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps Gromnir skews heavily towards crit-based builds, so the accuracy buff is a major advantage.  regardless, whether it is converting grazes to hits or hits to crits, a +10 accuracy buff is a major enhancement.  consider how many folks is planning to rebuild their poe characters post 2.0 to take advantage o' perception's +1 per point accuracy boost.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Gromnir

[Torm51]

 

I appreciate the detailed response Gromnir.  I just hate having a low Fort save.  Granted with Faith and Conviction it will not be that low but having no bonuses to a certain defense bothers me as a tank.  Guess you cant have it all...and you almost do as a Paladin thanks to Faith and Con.

faith and convictions does make a big difference.  we can't imagine dropping might or con any further on a tank 'cause o' the fort save issue you identify, but thanks to the aforementioned paladin quality, coupled with judicious usage o' consumables, we more than simple manage...  though we do concede that til we get faith and convictions pumped a bit, it makes sense to rely a bit on a second tank.  regardless, a +22 fort save bonus does make the unimpressive might and con easier to bear.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Agreed now if Darcozzi weren't so damn good.  I hate playing Passionate!  I usually play a Shieldbearer, Goldpact Knight or Bleak Walker.  I think Bond of Duty for Goldpact Knights is underrated but its NOT better then the accuracy Darcozzi buff.

[Gromnir]

as clarification, we ain't suggesting that our high intellect paladins is optimal min-maxed for either the tank or support roles. even so, both our darcozzi tank and kind wayfarer support is effective and fun.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nobear]

My paladin on PoTD is a Shieldbearer with 10/14/4/18/14/18. The thing is, I arrived at 14 base Int by testing that 20 Int was the breakpoint for Zealous Focus coverage of my entire custom formation. The problem is, I experience the ever-growing paladin aura bug I've reported with the latest hotfix, and I guess even when I first got ZF, my aura size was already a bit larger than it should have been. The bug mysteriously disappeared around the time I hit level 6 and Ondra's Gift, making my aura go from larger than the entire map to (I think) normal size. Well, at its current (presumably normal) size, it turns out it doesn't quite cover my party at 20 Int. As much as Aldwyn is not my first choice of courtesan to sleep with, I'll lie with him (her?) and see if it gets big enough. OMG I didn't plan that I swear!

 

 

Agreed now if Darcozzi weren't so damn good.  I hate playing Passionate!  I usually play a Shieldbearer, Goldpact Knight or Bleak Walker.  I think Bond of Duty for Goldpact Knights is underrated but its NOT better then the accuracy Darcozzi buff.

 

Bond of Duty isn't needed for paladins themselves because of Righteous Soul, and for other party members, there are the priest defense spells against various types of CC. Yeah it seems decent, especially if you don't play with a priest, but as you say, not as good as Inspiring Liberation.

[Torm51]

My paladin on PoTD is a Shieldbearer with 10/14/4/18/14/18. The thing is, I arrived at 14 base Int by testing that 20 Int was the breakpoint for Zealous Focus coverage of my entire custom formation. The problem is, I experience the ever-growing paladin aura bug I've reported with the latest hotfix, and I guess even when I first got ZF, my aura size was already a bit larger than it should have been. The bug mysteriously disappeared around the time I hit level 6 and Ondra's Gift, making my aura go from larger than the entire map to (I think) normal size. Well, at its current (presumably normal) size, it turns out it doesn't quite cover my party at 20 Int. As much as Aldwyn is not my first choice of courtesan to sleep with, I'll lie with him (her?) and see if it gets big enough. OMG I didn't plan that I swear!

 

 

Agreed now if Darcozzi weren't so damn good.  I hate playing Passionate!  I usually play a Shieldbearer, Goldpact Knight or Bleak Walker.  I think Bond of Duty for Goldpact Knights is underrated but its NOT better then the accuracy Darcozzi buff.

 

Bond of Duty isn't needed for paladins themselves because of Righteous Soul, and for other party members, there are the priest defense spells against various types of CC. Yeah it seems decent, especially if you don't play with a priest, but as you say, not as good as Inspiring Liberation.

Yep I meant as a buff for allies.  With Righteous Soul its overkill for myself.  And well at least you can cast it per encounter without worrying about wasting spells but you are right.  With a priest its meh.

 

PS Nobear if you turn OFF your auras, save and reload they will be the size they are supposed to be.  I have the habit now my auras off before I save at the end of the night and turning them back on when I log in.  I hate playing with giant aura cheesiness!

[Gromnir]

more than a few modal abilities has Never been fixed by obsidian.  however, the following link may help nobear as it does address most modal stacking problems we encountered.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76862-i-found-a-new-way-to-fix-the-rogues-reckless-assault-stacking-bug/?p=1651130

 

treat zealous focus same as reckless assault for purposes o' fixing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps chances are you won't need to save and reload as many times as the genesis poster.  

Edited July 2, 2015 by Gromnir

[Nobear]

PS Nobear if you turn OFF your auras, save and reload they will be the size they are supposed to be.  I have the habit now my auras off before I save at the end of the night and turning them back on when I log in.  I hate playing with giant aura cheesiness!

 

more than a few modal abilities has Never been fixed by obsidian.  however, the following link may help nobear as it does address most modal stacking problems we encountered.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76862-i-found-a-new-way-to-fix-the-rogues-reckless-assault-stacking-bug/?p=1651130

 

treat zealous focus same as reckless assault for purposes o' fixing.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps chances are you won't need to save and reload as many times as the genesis poster.  

 

 

Wow, thanks to both of you for that info. I have reported the bug and mentioned it several times, and this is the first time someone has mentioned a workaround.

 

Funny thing about my experience, though, is that I have tried turning auras (both ZF and ZE on different playthroughs) off and on again before, and found the range was just as large as before. For some reason, I decided to turn my aura off and on recently and keep playing. Before I kept going, however, I checked to make sure the aura's range was still huge. It was. I remember specifically that this was in Doemenel Manor, right around the time I hit level 6, and right before I started exploring Ondra's Gift and noticed my aura had suddenly shrunk. So the change was not immediate, but apparently the act of turning it off and on had some lingering effect that only manifested later (perhaps after a map change or save and reload).

 

Now here's a question for you guys: do you know if my aura will grow again over time if I don't keep turning it off and on? Torm, you don't like the cheese, but I find it interesting, and part of me thinks "why not?" It's not like it really makes the game easier (given that I already have moderately high Int and am not going to cheat and dump it now), it just means I have more leeway for now of who I sleep with for bonuses if I want my aura to cover everyone . So if I leave it be, will it eventually grow again, or would I have to go back to a previous game if I wanted to bring back the cheese?

 

The bummer is my last save was from when I'd just barely unlocked the stronghold. Well, I guess if I've permanently broken my cheese, I'll roll with that too. If the game is going to give me cheese, I'll take it, but I won't go out of my way to exploit it. That's generally how I feel in games, which is why I get bored of Elder Scrolls games when I find out how to legitimately optimize my way into effective God mode. I don't consider this bug to be anywhere near that in terms of being game-breaking, though.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Nobear

[Nobear]

Well I answered my own question: the cheese returns!

[Torm51]

Ya its no big deal especially if you haven't dumped your Int like you said.  I know that as long as you turn it off, save and reload it will go back to the size its supposed to be based on your Int.  Works every time for me.  I turn my auras off, save and log off for the night.  The next day I log on and turn them on and they are the correct size.  Every time.  It works for me at least.

 

So yes if you don't turn it off and on from  save to load it will grow again lol

Edited July 2, 2015 by Torm51

[Nobear]

lol it's a pretty silly bug as bugs go