Wow shades are hard on PoTD (spoiler warning)

[Nobear]

I was doing just dandy in all the outdoor forest areas in Act 1 on PoTD. I was playing much more carefully and slowly than on Hard, but I was making it. Then I went into the Temple of Eothas while everyone is still level 3. Lower level, shades have 16 DR, making shadows and everything teleporting everywhere. You cast a summon to protect your weak members, hope they have a clear path to get away and don't die in the meantime, and just as soon... FOOM! Teleport again. I cleared half the lower level, but there's one fight that's just killing me, with full food buffs and all. I guess this is the weakness of having four ranged DD and two tanks who are useless there.

 

I'll probably be able to clear Anslog's Compass much easier and maybe gain an extra level before I come back. As long as I can tank stuff I'm good. The Forest Lurkers in NE Black Meadow made my tanks seem like they were naked, but I brought em down. I think I'll aim to get some Spirit Slaying and Burning enchants on my weapons, seeing as the shades have "only" 8 DR against fire.

 

Dayum... I know there's some hardcore players that want an even bigger challenge, but I'm not that pro and I'm playing with the story companions. I do like the challenge where you actually face defeats, and have to regroup and rethink and optimize before coming back. This game is too freaking good. Alright, I need to go to bed now, cheers.

[Drath]

Yea would be good to be a little higher there for the lower level. IIRC, I cleared the upper level at around L3 (4-man party: PC Rogue/Aloth/Eder/Durance), except the big group of Skuldrs and their king and the 4 Will O Wisps and came back for them at L4 (5-man party: added Kana) and also the lower level.

 

Shades are pretty irritating as they tend to target the weaker party members with cold ranged attacks and have that teleport move. Take note of the icon over their heads as to what they are casting/doing and mouseover them to see which party member they are currently targetting. With some pausing, you can probably move the targetted, weaker party members away in time before they teleport in, to let the tank engage first. I used Aloth's Fan of Flames a lot here (yes sometimes it'll miss but it should do good damage when it does hit). Kana also did some damage with that Fine Estoc when he managed to hit with it. Against foes with high DR (Shades, Skuldr King) it was one of the better weapons. My rogue did the rest of the damage while Eder tanked them. Durance applied Blessing for better accuracy/damage and kept some heals going. Tried Divine Mark too if memory serves though I don't think I actually hit with it. Anyway its definitely one of the tougher encounters at lower levels and you'll probably take some damage here.

 

If you've been to Caed Nua's keep, you can get a sword with spirit slaying at the entrance, which should also help somewhat.

 

 

As for the Forest Lurkers in Black Meadow, I didn't tank them. They were obviously slower than party members and I wasn't going to risk getting a tank mauled so I just shot from a distance and retreated when they approached. Might take a while as they have high pierce DR but its less traumatic that way.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Drath

[Yipikayey]

I managed to do it with a lvl 3 / 2 party. But it certainly doesn't look worth it (had to go a few times back to the inn). To be honest, this is my first playthrough, and it seems like playing a melee is completely useless if he is not a tank. When he can engage, the fight is favorable to you anyways, but when it's not, he will die easilly. Compared to having a druid (they have such good aoe damage spells early on), or other ranged DPS, i don't understand why would you ever play a melee outside of a tank. That may be because i am new tho, so if people can show videos on how to make melee dps barbs/fighters/rogues work, i would be grateful, because they certainly feel like dead weight to me.

[Drath]

It largely depends on how much you rest. If you don't mind resting fairly often, the casters are certainly superior and don't run into pathfinding issues trying to get into position to melee the right mob.

 

If you're going for the "less than 10 rests" achievement or don't like using camping supplies/travelling back to the nearest inn or just simply don't like resting much (maybe imposing a self limit in terms of time taken to finish the adventure?) then the classes that don't depend on it so much will shine more, including rogues and fighters. In these cases, your rests are dictated by health and fatigue rather than spell availability. Players who want to have dps meleers but prefer to keep incoming damage on non-tanks to a minimum can also opt for reach weapons (pike, quarterstaff). Anyway I think it boils down to a matter of preference.

[Nobear]

Well Drath, that mouseover advice sounds good, looks like that fight is going to require insane micromanaging!

 

Yipikayey, a melee rogue can do really good single target damage, which would theoretically rock for a fight with two shades and tons of shadows. The main problem is that he dies fast, but same with the casters.

 

I will definitely come back at higher level, doing all the outdoor areas in Act 1 first, maybe even taking Caed Nua first. Those shade fights probably aren't any harder than the Temple of Eothas ones, and I'll get plenty of XP for advancing the main quest.

[Wolken3156]

Send your tank first, have them waste their teleport on the tank and then move in your squad. Their weakest defenses are Reflex and Fort so attacks that target both work wonders. Sunbeam and Fan of Flames are especially notable since their Burn DR is pretty bad, the former is especially good since it adds Blind on top of its damage as well. If they summon Shadows and you have a Wizard, chances are the Shadows will use their teleport to your Wizard. Its no biggie, pop Arcane Veil and he'll be untouchable, just focus target on the Shades since the Shadows will die along with them. Placing Repulsing Seal on top of your back row is also another way to deal with them, it won't affect your allies and is pretty much set and forget. The real dangerous thing is that ranged ice move. You don't have too many ways to deal with it yet, either stunlock them into not using it (Slicken works really well) or hope Consecrated Ground can heal through the damage should they all decide to focus fire on one character. Don't worry too much if you have one man down, it happens even to the best of us.

 

In general, don't be afraid to blow your best spells out on them. They are a legitimate threat this early in the game so there's no shame going nova on them, and since you're close to town as well, you can technically afford to go all out.

 

That said though, I find Phantoms to be rougher than Shades in PotD, paralyze is a death sentence to tanks this early on and my tanks ironically have terrible Fort saves since I abhor putting points into Con. I'm probably one of the minority on this though.

 

 

Oh and Forest Lurkers? They do have pretty high accuracy yeah, but their Deflection is hilariously bad even in PotD. I just have my tanks switch to more offensively inclined weapons (Since they're gonna get hit anyway), have my Wizard use Parasitic Staff and then go to town. Maybe tossing the occasional Mental Binding or Talons' Reach. Generally, I find its better to go full offense on these guys, you're gonna get a lot of crits on them after all. Their Will is pretty bad, so using Curse of Blackened Sight is a good way to cut down on the damage your group takes, as well as making their Deflection all the more laughable.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Wolken3156

[Nobear]

Thanks for the strategy advice Wolken. I also don't know that you're in the minority about minimizing Con, at least among the people whose advice I've read who sound like they know what they're doing. It seemed pretty unorthodox and hard to swallow at first, but eventually I came around to making my main a paladin tank with maxed Per/Int/Res and minimized Con/Dex with the rest in Str. Moon Godlike, female dwarf body largely for the humor value. She's not doing too shabby so far :D.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Nobear

[Raven Darkholme]

Nobody who maximizes his tank would go to 3 Con (or ST ;p) on them because fort is very important. But I think going eay above 10 doesn't make sense either, I got it on 10, some uave ot up to 14.

[HoopleDoople]

Nobody who maximizes his tank would go to 3 Con (or ST ;p) on them because fort is very important. But I think going eay above 10 doesn't make sense either, I got it on 10, some uave ot up to 14.

 

Points in STR also contributes to fortitude and tends to be more useful because they boost the damage of your attacks/abilities and the potency of your heals. Pumping STR, PER, and RES gives you a decent baseline in each defense and then you can distribute the rest of the points as you see fit to match your build. If you're ever particularly worried about your tank lacking high fortitude choose to make him a Coastal Aumaua for bonuses against prone and stun.

 

In the case of a Paladin INT is very useful for aura range and abilitiy duration, which really leaves nothing for CON. With Faith and Conviction bonuses (5/10/10/10 base, can be slightly higher with disposition bonuses) and the Outworn Buckler (+5 to all defenses, applies to other party members in a small radius, can stack with other item defense bonuses) you can get your fortitude plenty high.

[Raven Darkholme]

 

Nobody who maximizes his tank would go to 3 Con (or ST ;p) on them because fort is very important. But I think going eay above 10 doesn't make sense either, I got it on 10, some uave ot up to 14.

 

 

Points in STR also contributes to fortitude and tends to be more useful because they boost the damage of your attacks/abilities and the potency of your heals. Pumping STR, PER, and RES gives you a decent baseline in each defense and then you can distribute the rest of the points as you see fit to match your build. If you're ever particularly worried about your tank lacking high fortitude choose to make him a Coastal Aumaua for bonuses against prone and stun.

 

In the case of a Paladin INT is very useful for aura range and abilitiy duration, which really leaves nothing for CON. With Faith and Conviction bonuses (5/10/10/10 base, can be slightly higher with disposition bonuses) and the Outworn Buckler (+5 to all defenses, applies to other party members in a small radius, can stack with other item defense bonuses) you can get your fortitude plenty high.

Thats why I talked about maxed tanks i.e. solo adra.

[Nobear]

Outworn buckler doesn't stack. It looks like it does when you're out of combat, but as soon as you enter combat you see the items with defenses suppressed. I have written about this on other threads. Who knows though, maybe certain game versions are different. I'm playing the 1.0.6 GoG Mac version.

[HoopleDoople]

Outworn buckler doesn't stack. It looks like it does when you're out of combat, but as soon as you enter combat you see the items with defenses suppressed. I have written about this on other threads. Who knows though, maybe certain game versions are different. I'm playing the 1.0.6 GoG Mac version.

 

It definitely stacks on steam currently, hopefully it will stack for you once the update hits GoG.

[Nobear]

 

Outworn buckler doesn't stack. It looks like it does when you're out of combat, but as soon as you enter combat you see the items with defenses suppressed. I have written about this on other threads. Who knows though, maybe certain game versions are different. I'm playing the 1.0.6 GoG Mac version.

 

It definitely stacks on steam currently, hopefully it will stack for you once the update hits GoG.

 

 

 

Well that would be pretty OP, but I wouldn't complain lol.

[Wolken3156]

Nobody who maximizes his tank would go to 3 Con (or ST ;p) on them because fort is very important. But I think going eay above 10 doesn't make sense either, I got it on 10, some uave ot up to 14.

I'd only do it if I was using a non-Fighter tank, like a Chanter or Paladin. Mainly so I can get more points into INT and Might which is pretty helpful for both classes. Fighters don't quite need INT as much as them (Its nice for Prones, but getting them to land in PotD is rough) so they don't really need really need to dump it at all.

 

Early game tends to be rough on low Con tanks in general, since your Deflection will be a lot lower, and PotD enemies hurt. By mid game though, you probably won't even notice the lowered Endurance. Granted, mid game is when the game gets a lot easier in general due to your wide equipment and spell options, as opposed to early game where your options are much more limited.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Wolken3156