Stealth and how to use it?

[kmansp]

I absolutely love this game!  I'm just having one issue:  how in the hell are you supposed to use stealth?  What strategy does everyone use for it?  Here's my problem:

 

I have invested stealth points in my rogue, but this is starting to be pointless for two reasons: if I want to engage a target with the rogues stealth attack bonus, he is immediately put in a tough spot as the main target.  This makes his stealth attack bonus absolutely worthless.  I have the skill vanish skill, but using this only twice per rest means it's very limited.

 

The second problem is stealth puts the entire party in stealth, not just my rogue.  While this is all well and good, it makes me feel like I should have to invest points in stealth for all party members? 

 

This is really frustrating me.  Am I missing something?  What does everyone else do?  I want to be able to keep just my rogue in stealth when the rest of the party engages;.  Once he attacks, he obviously can't go back in to stealth unless he uses vanish.  This is the way it should be!!!!

[Omnicron]

Ya, it is a known issue. This is why backstab is not very valued. It can be useful though

 

If you want to invest in stealth you should give your entire party some, you do not need much,  this allows you to have a combat round from stealth with ranged weapons or spells and get a good initiative on the fight, maybe even killing some creatures or landing some hard cc which makes the fight a lot easier. 

 

You don't need a lot of stealth for this to work, so it is a light investment for the party. I found that I have been able to use stealth really effectively on a solo play and I completed the entire Eothas Temple without triggering combat with 10 stealth, but that is not really viable with a party. 

Backstab can still help here since it works with ranged weapons (I think?) and it will still apply if you attack from Shadowing Beyond and here and there. If I made a rogue ever again though I would not pick backstab as a talent. 

 

PS. To be honest even with my stealth party I would not get sufficient advantage for tough fights from a stealth combat round. In any sufficiently difficult encounter I would find a bottleneck area like a door and pull the mod so my tanks could absorb and deflect them while my backlines laid on the pain. So Stealth is a bit meh. 

Edited May 10, 2015 by Omnicron

[Guest]

So far as I can tell, stealth is really only helpful in relation to setting traps. Or disabling them to give the rest of your party a clear theater for combat.

[Kaigen42]

Ironically, as you've noticed, stealth isn't very useful for a Rogue setting up backstabs. I like a little bit of it on the entire party to skirt around enemy groups to find the best angle of attack; it also helps get your melee fighters a little closer before combat starts, and can help your casters get into casting range for short range spells to fire off to open combat.

[Crucis]

Ya, it is a known issue. This is why backstab is not very valued. It can be useful though

 

If you want to invest in stealth you should give your entire party some, you do not need much,  this allows you to have a combat round from stealth with ranged weapons or spells and get a good initiative on the fight, maybe even killing some creatures or landing some hard cc which makes the fight a lot easier. 

 

You don't need a lot of stealth for this to work, so it is a light investment for the party. I found that I have been able to use stealth really effectively on a solo play and I completed the entire Eothas Temple without triggering combat with 10 stealth, but that is not really viable with a party. 

 

Backstab can still help here since it works with ranged weapons (I think?) and it will still apply if you attack from Shadowing Beyond and here and there. If I made a rogue ever again though I would not pick backstab as a talent. 

 

PS. To be honest even with my stealth party I would not get sufficient advantage for tough fights from a stealth combat round. In any sufficiently difficult encounter I would find a bottleneck area like a door and pull the mod so my tanks could absorb and deflect them while my backlines laid on the pain. So Stealth is a bit meh. 

 

It depends on how you're using it.  In my parties, I have EVERYONE carry a ranged weapon.  Thus, in this "stealth combat round", I can often fire all 6 party members at 1 or 2 enemies and get excellent results.

 

One thing that's worth considering is that the first enemy you see may not be the one that's best worth expending this full team volley on.  It's often worth sending in a highly stealthed scout in a little closer to try to see if there's a spellcaster just beyond that first enemy you spotted.  And then see if you can get your party to creep up close enough to be able to target the spellcaster, rather than the less valuable enemy target you first spotted.  If you don't think you can do this, sometimes it's worth firing only one guy at the closer enemy to trigger the combat and get the other enemies to come into range.  And when they do, then let loose with the rest of the volley at one of the more valuable enemies.

 

Of course, there will be some battles where this tactic may not be optimal, not because there's something wrong with nailing one enemy early on, but because getting close enough for everyone to get into range for that first ranged strike may force you to give up a defensible position, like a door way chokepoint.  Still, that doesn't mean that you can't fire a single shot at the first guy you see and hold the remainder of the shots for other targets as they show up.

 

 

 

[Crucis]

I absolutely love this game!  I'm just having one issue:  how in the hell are you supposed to use stealth?  What strategy does everyone use for it?  Here's my problem:

 

I have invested stealth points in my rogue, but this is starting to be pointless for two reasons: if I want to engage a target with the rogues stealth attack bonus, he is immediately put in a tough spot as the main target.  This makes his stealth attack bonus absolutely worthless.  I have the skill vanish skill, but using this only twice per rest means it's very limited.

 

The second problem is stealth puts the entire party in stealth, not just my rogue.  While this is all well and good, it makes me feel like I should have to invest points in stealth for all party members? 

 

This is really frustrating me.  Am I missing something?  What does everyone else do?  I want to be able to keep just my rogue in stealth when the rest of the party engages;.  Once he attacks, he obviously can't go back in to stealth unless he uses vanish.  This is the way it should be!!!!

 

Yes, IMO, you should invest in some points in Stealth on everyone in the party, if you're going to use any stealth at all.

 

If you have a party stealth crawling near an enemy, and you have 5 party members with good stealth and one with very weak stealth, the weakly stealthed guy will stand out like a searchlight.  You want to have all party members with a similar level of stealth, except perhaps for a very high stealth character you can use as a scout.  Of course, it helps if the scout is also the one looking for traps, since it stinks to be nicely stealthed and scouting ahead, and not be able to see any traps in your path.

 

 

[Crucis]

So far as I can tell, stealth is really only helpful in relation to setting traps. Or disabling them to give the rest of your party a clear theater for combat.

 

I haven't made much use of normal traps thus far, but it's really, really useful to have some stealth on priests so that they can get close enough (which really isn't all that close) to cast one of the seal spells.  I've gotten to the point that I see the seal spells as near must-cast pre-battle set-up spells when the situation allows.  At least for tougher battles.

[kmansp]

Good info.... thanks to all that replied.  I did not think about the stealth ranged attack from other party members.  I will try using that now.

 

I really hope Obsidian changes stealth so it's used like in Baldur's gate.  This stealth mechanic makes no sense!

[JONNIN]

stealth makes perfect sense actually ... it is unlikely to be able to walk into a room full of enemy, get 2 feet behind someone, kill them, all unseen (without magic).  I forget if BG had HIPS or if that was only NWN...  but the shadowdancer of NWN for sure was OP beyond belief .. you could solo the game on a dancer with a regen item, just fight until hurt, vanish, heal, return... 

 

While the stealth attack is clunky for melee attacks, the "sneak attack" mechanic is very nice and easy to use --- just debuff the enemy and hit it, and your spellcasters were doing debuffs anyway (right?) ...   it works out because the sneak attack is so strong.

[Exoduss]

Backstab needs shadowing beyond to work and then its 2 per rest , anybody see critical flaw's in design here ? Imo backstab should be part of sneak attack seeing how weak and situational it is it should just be given free to rogue then if you get shadowing beyond you can use it tacticaly sometimes for backstab , as for now you need to spend 2 talent points for something that is twice per rest and pretty situational 

[Raven Darkholme]

stealth makes perfect sense actually ... it is unlikely to be able to walk into a room full of enemy, get 2 feet behind someone, kill them, all unseen (without magic).  I forget if BG had HIPS or if that was only NWN...  but the shadowdancer of NWN for sure was OP beyond belief .. you could solo the game on a dancer with a regen item, just fight until hurt, vanish, heal, return... 

 

While the stealth attack is clunky for melee attacks, the "sneak attack" mechanic is very nice and easy to use --- just debuff the enemy and hit it, and your spellcasters were doing debuffs anyway (right?) ...   it works out because the sneak attack is so strong.

HIPS was also present in BG and super overposered in BG1 and SoA it sucks in ToB though.

Backstab needs shadowing beyond to work and then its 2 per rest , anybody see critical flaw's in design here ? Imo backstab should be part of sneak attack seeing how weak and situational it is it should just be given free to rogue then if you get shadowing beyond you can use it tacticaly sometimes for backstab , as for now you need to spend 2 talent points for something that is twice per rest and pretty situational

 

Backstab also works with ranged and would be op if it worked with sneak. You couldn't even compare the carnage a thief would do to BG backstab.