Survival Skill - Suggestions for Improvements

[Jimmysdabestcop]

The Skills basically have no bearing on the game play. Besides Endurance just so you don't have fatigue all the time. if you left everything elase at Zero the game would play exactly the same way. There would be very little difference.

 

Skills are a great idea but they really need to be expanded on. They should be as important as abilities/talents since you get them when you level up. If they aren't that important why are they in the game?

[the streaker]

I guess when looking at the existing skills, I see value in gaining high levels of some of those skills.  Stealth, Lore, and Mechanics, to be specific. 

 

High stealth lets a character get really, really close to an enemy without being spotted, and delays how long the "yellow" and "red" timers take before triggering.  This can be very useful for a thieving or backstabbing rogue, or perhaps a monk.  And for any character you're using a scout.

 

High Lore is mostly useful for casting high level scroll spells.

 

High Mechanics is useful for disarming high level traps and opening high level locks. And for a priest, is useful for improving one's Seal spells.

 

But I don't see much value in high levels of Athletics or Survival.  Oh, I suppose that it's hard to argue that extending the duration of consumables has *no* value.  But to get that value, you have to be willing or remember to use those consumables in the first place.  And for that matter, other than a few boss or near boss level fights, at least in Normal mode, one hardly needs those consumables in the first place.

 

On top of that, the idea of extending the duration of consumables doesn't exactly fit how I'd view a "Survival" skill.  For that matter, I'm not entirely sure that there's much room for a "true" survival skill in this game.  I mean, Tracking is pretty much useless after one's first play through of the game, since you'll know where the enemies are without tracking them.    I suppose that another way one could use survival skill would be for knowing how to rest in the wild without actual supplies, being able to forage for food and firewood and be able to start a fire (or know when not to start a fire for the sake of safety).  Survival might let you know when it was or wasn't safe to perform a normal rest in the wild.  This concept of Survival is probably the sort of thing that you'd only need one character to have, sort of like a guide character..... or a Ranger.  Someone who knows how to survive and live in the wild.

 

 

 

As for Athletics, this seems more difficult.  Having a minimal amount of Athletics essentially means that the character is in decent physical condition.  Is able to fight a string of battles without becoming exhausted after 2 or 3 of them.  For the most part, a character with 3 points in Athletics is only going to become fatigued after long periods without sleep, not from combat exhaustion.  But beyond that, Athletics starts to become less about simply being in shape and more about being an excellent athlete, able to perform acts of considerable (pardon the repetition) athletic skill.  Being able to climb a rock face.  Being able to swim across a fast moving river or stream.  And so on.  But the thing is that these are probably not about being able to do it without becoming fatigued.  They're probably more about being able to do them at all. 

 

And it seems to me that to enable this requires creating a lot of situations where the skill would come into play, but doing so in a way where you either have enough Athletic skill or you have no way to get to where you need to go.  It should be more about having the skill to allow you to get in some back door, so to speak, while the front door always remains an option.

 

High level sneaking is only useful if everyone has it. What's your rogue going to do after he's sneaked into the enemy pack and backstabbed once? Die.

 

There's barely any good scrolls for high level lore to be useful.

 

Mechanics is universally recognized as the only valuable skill to max out, but for one character only. Everyone else gets no benefit out of it.

 

The skills right now are pretty much flavor/roleplaying content.

[Jojobobo]

Survival is pretty useless, I play PotD solo and I still don't use items much (I beer before tough fights, but that's it) and even when I do their standard duration is more than adequate anyway.

[Crucis]

 

I guess when looking at the existing skills, I see value in gaining high levels of some of those skills.  Stealth, Lore, and Mechanics, to be specific. 

 

High stealth lets a character get really, really close to an enemy without being spotted, and delays how long the "yellow" and "red" timers take before triggering.  This can be very useful for a thieving or backstabbing rogue, or perhaps a monk.  And for any character you're using a scout.

 

High Lore is mostly useful for casting high level scroll spells.

 

High Mechanics is useful for disarming high level traps and opening high level locks. And for a priest, is useful for improving one's Seal spells.

 

But I don't see much value in high levels of Athletics or Survival.  Oh, I suppose that it's hard to argue that extending the duration of consumables has *no* value.  But to get that value, you have to be willing or remember to use those consumables in the first place.  And for that matter, other than a few boss or near boss level fights, at least in Normal mode, one hardly needs those consumables in the first place.

 

On top of that, the idea of extending the duration of consumables doesn't exactly fit how I'd view a "Survival" skill.  For that matter, I'm not entirely sure that there's much room for a "true" survival skill in this game.  I mean, Tracking is pretty much useless after one's first play through of the game, since you'll know where the enemies are without tracking them.    I suppose that another way one could use survival skill would be for knowing how to rest in the wild without actual supplies, being able to forage for food and firewood and be able to start a fire (or know when not to start a fire for the sake of safety).  Survival might let you know when it was or wasn't safe to perform a normal rest in the wild.  This concept of Survival is probably the sort of thing that you'd only need one character to have, sort of like a guide character..... or a Ranger.  Someone who knows how to survive and live in the wild.

 

 

 

As for Athletics, this seems more difficult.  Having a minimal amount of Athletics essentially means that the character is in decent physical condition.  Is able to fight a string of battles without becoming exhausted after 2 or 3 of them.  For the most part, a character with 3 points in Athletics is only going to become fatigued after long periods without sleep, not from combat exhaustion.  But beyond that, Athletics starts to become less about simply being in shape and more about being an excellent athlete, able to perform acts of considerable (pardon the repetition) athletic skill.  Being able to climb a rock face.  Being able to swim across a fast moving river or stream.  And so on.  But the thing is that these are probably not about being able to do it without becoming fatigued.  They're probably more about being able to do them at all. 

 

And it seems to me that to enable this requires creating a lot of situations where the skill would come into play, but doing so in a way where you either have enough Athletic skill or you have no way to get to where you need to go.  It should be more about having the skill to allow you to get in some back door, so to speak, while the front door always remains an option.

 

High level sneaking is only useful if everyone has it. What's your rogue going to do after he's sneaked into the enemy pack and backstabbed once? Die.

 

There's barely any good scrolls for high level lore to be useful.

 

Mechanics is universally recognized as the only valuable skill to max out, but for one character only. Everyone else gets no benefit out of it.

 

The skills right now are pretty much flavor/roleplaying content.

 

 

 

I thoroughly disagree about high level stealth.  Yes, it may be suicidal for a rogue to sneak up and backstab an enemy (though IIRC, can't you Shadow Beyond to escape unseen?).  But having one very highly skilled in stealth Scout is very useful, even if the rest of the party has only a mild amount of Stealth (say 3 points).  The high Stealth scout can get a lot closer to the enemy, not to initiate attacks, but to see more than just a little of their force.  The lowish stealth scout can probably only see the first couple of enemies before he has to pull back to avoid being spotted.  The high stealth scout can move a lot closer and have more time to do it so that he can see more of the enemy force.  Frankly, sir, you should have been able to figure this one out for yourself.

 

As for Lore, there may not be all that many high level scrolls to be used, but if you want to use them, you'll need at least one character with enough Lore to do so.

 

Duh.  Of course, you only really need one character with really high mechanics skill for traps and locks duty.  That said, you're wrong to say that everyone else gets no benefit out of Mechanics.  If you have a dedicated traps and locks specialist who isn't your priest, it doesn't hurt for the priest to put some points in Mechanics because it helps with the accuracy of his Seal spells.  Of course, if your priest is also your traps and locks specialist, then your statement is correct.

 

 

[Crucis]

Survival is pretty useless, I play PotD solo and I still don't use items much (I beer before tough fights, but that's it) and even when I do their standard duration is more than adequate anyway.

 

Learn the difference between "useless" and "necessary".  Survival may not be at all necessary, but it's far from useless.  You can get through the game without needing the benefits of Survival, but that's NOT the same thing as saying that Survival is "useless".

 

 

[View619]

More scripted interactions, in which Survival can present its own set of beneficial options. 

[Carados]

Here is how i'd do it

 

1. Mechanics: quite like it is now, but increasing mechanics skills should allow player to set more traps. And every time player disarms a new trap, he learns how to craft it.

 

2. Athletics. In addtion to what the skills does now, i'd revamp the armor system. In my opinion wearing heavy or medium armors should cause more fatigue than wearing light armor, robes or clothes. So it would make sense for a warrior to really increase his althletics since otherwise he would be tired pretty soon. In fact now every class would find some use for athletics.

 

3. Survival: In addition to increasing the time for consumables, I think survial skil should determine what kind of random encounters party would face while resting or travelling in the wild. Now I think maxing survival with one character should not be enough to avoid hostile encounters entirely. Rather it would be the average of every party member's survival skill.

 

4. In addition to scrolls, the lore skill could also allow player to uncover hidden infromation and knowledge from books / magical objects. Maybe some extra exp or new crafting recipes or even magical spells and such. Also lore should have some kind of effect on enchanting and crafting. Higher lore - better gear / potions / scrolls you can craft.

 

5.  Maybe increasing sneaking skil could give some minor bonuses on critcal chance or something combat related.

[the streaker]

Sounds pretty good. The key point I think is for every party member to gain a tangible benefit from most/all of the skills, so there's actually some meaningful choice to be made in the skill selection part of levelling up, instead of being basically a meaningless task that it is now.

[EdwinP]

Carados,

 

1. Your idea for Mechanics level allowing one to set more traps is really nice, and quite applicable.

 

2. I applaud your concept for heavier armor imparting a larger fatigue penalty. I would also consider a larger fatigue penalties for strenuous activities - climbing a cliff or swimming through a sewer - so that characters; such as wizards and rogues, that forgoes athletics suffer a fatigue penalty.

 

3. I like the idea of Lore levels providing knowledge of new enchantment recipes or spells. The results could be randomly selected from a pool of 50 enchantment recipes and spells. This reflects that a study of ancient scrolls will have unpredictable results. Example: Every Lore level above 5 = 1 randomly selected recipe or spell. Perhaps a talent: Focus Necromancy, Focus Charm, Focus Nature, provides a new spell in that focus area for every level above 5. (I.e. No Focus = Random Recipe/Spell, Focus = Recipe/Spell in that Focus area).

 

A 10th Level Wizard with Talent: Charm would have access to 5 randomly selected "Charm" related enchantments or spells.

A 10th Level Wizard without a focus would have access to 5 randomly selected enchantments or spells.

Edited May 19, 2015 by EdwinP

[LordFey]

I think one major thing the devs should add to survival is the probability/amount of ingredients you find in the wilderness. The chance of random encounters also sounds very interesting as it'd be like survival in Wasteland 2.