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I think AC definitely should't be a free fighter, but (significantly) lowering accuracy and defenses seems like a bad way to balance that since their effect is non linear. Modifying attack speed and endurance looks like a better option since these give linear scaling. Defenses and accuracy should not be significantly lower than an average melee char,

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Honestly the main thing that animal companions need right now is better accuracy and 3 in athletics. It's pretty dumb that all animal companions have 0 in athletics so they get minor fatigue really fast (I used IE mod to give 3 athletics to my ranger's wolf and make its stats more in line with the wolf in the bestiary, while maintaining the 65 overall stats animal companions are supposed to have). The fact that at base their accuracy is like 20 lower than the ranger's is problematic for using them to deal damage however, and I'd like to see that buffed.

 

Can you tell me how did you modify animal companion stats with IE mod? I would also do it and at least have some fun with Ranger.

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Just reposting this from the class balance thread.  I was thinking about just using console commands to create a different, pet less Ranger based off of Rogue and Ranger abilities.

 

In its current form, Animal Companion just doesn't do much at all for the Ranger.  This is especially true in dungeons and you have more melee than just the tank.  It's very hard to get the pet around the two other melee or without ending up engaging an enemy of its own...and then dying.  Even if the pet was invincible, and ended up just being more of a movable buff, it still seems way too cumbersome to use over just using a melee Rogue instead, even if its just standing behind the tank.  It's even more problematic if you use a Chill Fog or two, because the only space that's usually left available is on top of it.

 

My idea was to actually have a Ranger base, but one that doesn't have to use the pet at all.  Technically you would have to just use a Rogue I think, and add in Ranger talents on level ups, unless there's some way to console out the pet requirement of a Ranger that I am unaware of.  In the end, it would basically just be similar to a ranged Rogue, but with Driving Flight.  It doesn't matter right now how much damage the pet does by itself, or how much of a bonus it gives the Ranger (with the caveat of the same target requirement) if the pet is either dead half of the time or you have to stall sending it in/waste too much time microing it.

 

There's just absolutely no reason to pick a Ranger right now over practically any other class besides a Paladin.  Too much busywork, and there's not even parity.

 

 

If Rangers were more like Beast Masters in WoW, where you pet could really hold his own as your tank or support you as DPS or do some nice CC that be great. But PoE Ranger pets are just liability for me.

 

Is that a new spec for the Hunter in WoW, or are you actually talking about EverQuest?

 

 

Yeah, I must be doing it wrong. Sagani is a ****ing beast in my game.

 

You playing on Normal?  Because there are less enemies per encounter, which skews things quite a bit (and is also why Wizards are trash below Hard).

Edited by Sanctuary
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What I'd do to fix rangers is make the pets' mental resistences sky-high.  You have a mental link to your companion, you should be able to share your courage with them.  Also, I'd give the pet an aura that can only affect the ranger.  For example something like wolf granting the run-speed aura the paladin gives, so that the two of you can run as a pack.  That would make it so that in open fights, the ranger has an easier time moving to a flanking position.

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Honestly the main thing that animal companions need right now is better accuracy and 3 in athletics. It's pretty dumb that all animal companions have 0 in athletics so they get minor fatigue really fast (I used IE mod to give 3 athletics to my ranger's wolf and make its stats more in line with the wolf in the bestiary, while maintaining the 65 overall stats animal companions are supposed to have). The fact that at base their accuracy is like 20 lower than the ranger's is problematic for using them to deal damage however, and I'd like to see that buffed.

 

Can you tell me how did you modify animal companion stats with IE mod? I would also do it and at least have some fun with Ranger.

 

Just find the pets name with the "findcharacter" command and adjust it like any other player.

 

http://rien-ici.com/iemod/console

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Honestly the main thing that animal companions need right now is better accuracy and 3 in athletics. It's pretty dumb that all animal companions have 0 in athletics so they get minor fatigue really fast (I used IE mod to give 3 athletics to my ranger's wolf and make its stats more in line with the wolf in the bestiary, while maintaining the 65 overall stats animal companions are supposed to have). The fact that at base their accuracy is like 20 lower than the ranger's is problematic for using them to deal damage however, and I'd like to see that buffed.

 

Can you tell me how did you modify animal companion stats with IE mod? I would also do it and at least have some fun with Ranger.

 

Just find the pets name with the "findcharacter" command and adjust it like any other player.

 

http://rien-ici.com/iemod/console

 

 

Thanks! If modding was more advanced or Obsidian made more friendly files to mod I am sure we would have now more interesing pets for ranger! Wish I could replace somehow those pets with some other pets, then tweak stats and skill to be tanky/CC and make glass cannon ranger. Ow!! So much fun :D

 

And in WoW you have yes Hunters, but you have Beast Mastery tree for builds, so commonly such hunter with heavy Beast Mastery investment were called Beast Masters, same as Destruction Warlocks were called Destroyers. But that was many years ago :).

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Must have been server or realm based, or even time based.  I played from 2004 - 2011 and never heard a "BM" Hunter refered to as a "Beast Master", even though technically they are more focused in the Beast Mastery tree. Similarly, I've heard Warlocks being "Destro" specced, but I've never heard them specifically being called "Destroyers".

 

Also, the class I was thinking of from EQ was a Beastlord.

Edited by Sanctuary
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Must have been server or realm based, or even time based.  I played from 2004 - 2011 and never heard a "BM" Hunter refered to as a "Beast Master", even though technically they are more focused in the Beast Mastery tree. Similarly, I've heard Warlocks being "Destro" specced, but I've never heard them specifically being called "Destroyers".

 

Also, the class I was thinking of from EQ was a Beastlord.

 

Yup, could be. I was playing for 2 years only before got bored so I hardly remember. Maybe it was just how it was around in my clan. Dunno.

 

Either way, I wish for Ranger like that :)

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Ok. Range Rogue:

 

50% from Sneak attack, if flanked or conditions so in party that is not a problem.

1xPer encounter Blind strike (Sneak Attack) + 0.25 damage

2x Per Encounter Cripliing Strike (Sneak Attack) + 0.25 damage

Dirty Fighting plus Vicious Fighting = 20% Hits convert to Critics.

Witherin Strke- target Weakened 1x plus 0.25

Deep Wounds- DOT, weaker than Ranger one, ok, but it is still here.

Backstab wtih Blunderbus anyone?

 

Finishing Blow and Devastating blow for low Endurance bosses, Accuracy and great damage bonus.

 

Also Escape for fast run behind tank or Shadowing Beyond for positioning and fight reset.

 

In party I would take Rogue for range sniper. Accuracy is not that big issue if you take Wood Elf plus Marksman.

 

Ranger just do not cut for me as ultimate range DPS. He has some nice skills, yes, but not enough to be "Ranger" imo.

 

And I would take ranger anytime if his pets would not suck and be better to choose from. Wish I could have Crystal Spider as pet....

 

 

Ranger does have ultimate ranged dps. Driving flight itself increases your dps by about 60%. Swift aim by about another 40%. Stalker's link gives +10 accuracy, which shifts the entire hit table up by 10 points (not just hit->crit conversion). Marked target +40% lash damage once per encounter for a long time, not just 1 shot.

 

Also, your mage or cipher doesn't need to debuff for the rogue to get his sneak attack, so instead I can kick it off with two amplified waves or all kinds of other nasty stuff instead, for more DPS. The rogue can only supply his own sneak-attack effects for so long, maybe good enough in easy-hard, but on POTD the battles are long.

 

Melee rogue is a different story, but melee rogue loses out on the advantages of ranged combat and focus-fire ability. Oh I also forgot to add the pet DPS, which is probably on the order of 20% of your primary attack DPS.

Edited by the streaker
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I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but they're not accurate. A 20% reload buff and a 20% atk speed buff does not equate to a 40% damage buff. First, the attack speed buff presumably only either decreases recovery time or action time, and is likely additive with dexterity's modification to the same. Secondly, both the attack speed and the reload time are only affecting 1/3rd of the process. it's closer to around a 14% dps increase, not including if its additive with dexterity, (it's around a 21% damage buff, if the attack speed buff in total results in 20% greater atk speed without including reload time (as in it affects either both recovery time and action speed, or 1 such that total action speed is reduced by 20%)) not including the accuracy lost. This is a rough number since I assumed each part weighed the same, if reload time takes up more or less than 1/3rd of the total time it takes to attack numbers may be slightly off.

Driving flight only helps AoE damage, where ranger falls sorely behind casters regardless. It will also be pitifully behind barbarian in the same regard, though barbarians also lose out to casters. Marked target is once per encounter on a single target, good in boss fights, but almost certainly negligible in an average encounter. Further, melee ranger can use every one of these abilities except driving flight, and melee ranger will certainly outclass in terms of single target dps, and most likely overall damage as well.

Edited by SilchasRuin
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There is a mod called "More Useful Animal Companions" that buffs each of the companion-related talents to give +8 deflection. 

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/50/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fpillarsofeternity%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D50%26preview%3D&pUp=1

 

On retrospect I think it might be a bit too OP.

+8 deflection is absolutely nothing.  If it was +8 DR, that's an entirely different story.

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There is a mod called "More Useful Animal Companions" that buffs each of the companion-related talents to give +8 deflection. 

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/50/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fpillarsofeternity%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D50%26preview%3D&pUp=1

 

On retrospect I think it might be a bit too OP.

+8 deflection is absolutely nothing.  If it was +8 DR, that's an entirely different story.

 

Er, that's an inbuilt +3 DR and a gradual total of +40! Deflection, which is a bit mad and an optional Bonded Grief that arguably makes rangers *better*.

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^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but they're not accurate. A 20% reload buff and a 20% atk speed buff does not equate to a 40% damage buff. First, the attack speed buff presumably only either decreases recovery time or action time, and is likely additive with dexterity's modification to the same. Secondly, both the attack speed and the reload time are only affecting 1/3rd of the process. it's closer to around a 14% dps increase, not including if its additive with dexterity, (it's around a 21% damage buff, if the attack speed buff in total results in 20% greater atk speed without including reload time (as in it affects either both recovery time and action speed, or 1 such that total action speed is reduced by 20%)) not including the accuracy lost. This is a rough number since I assumed each part weighed the same, if reload time takes up more or less than 1/3rd of the total time it takes to attack numbers may be slightly off.

 

Driving flight only helps AoE damage, where ranger falls sorely behind casters regardless. It will also be pitifully behind barbarian in the same regard, though barbarians also lose out to casters. Marked target is once per encounter on a single target, good in boss fights, but almost certainly negligible in an average encounter. Further, melee ranger can use every one of these abilities except driving flight, and melee ranger will certainly outclass in terms of single target dps, and most likely overall damage as well.

 

No offense buddy, but you question my numbers and then proceed to make up numbers yourself... wtf? Swift aim gets you x1.5 reload buff and x1.2 recovery buff, you can work out the weighted average. Since it's related to speed, it multiplies with dexterity, gunner and chanter's Sure Handed Ila bonuses. You assume reload is 1/3rd of the total attack time, but in reality it's longer than both attack and recovery combined. These numbers are available on this forum.

 

DPS numbers are always important because in almost all battles, there will be more than one target. If there's only one target of importance, then you have marked prey, as you correctly pointed out...

 

Barbarian and casters (except maybe ciphers) cannot keep up the single-target DPS that a ranger can, and melee rogues do not have the advantage of focus fire and safety from range. This is the ranger's specialty. High sustained ranged DPS. Not as high single-target DPS as melee rogue, but with the many advantages that come with ranged combat. Not as high total DPS as a caster going full-out, but can sustain for longer and has higher single-target DPS.

 

P.S. a melee ranger is a waste. You can't stack any of the reload speed boosts nor get driving flight, which are the ranger's two best qualities. Melee rogue is better.

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The thing I don't like about Rangers is that have no melee talents at all. If you want your Ranger to melee it is pretty boring. You can use swift aim and throw cautious attack on him and the speed penalty actually get suppressed.

 

So in essence you are getting +!0 deflection for -2 accuracy. I mean you would figure there should be some kind of special dual wield ranger ability. I mean that has been pretty standard in D&D since what like pre 1984. Well before they introduced kits and specialized rangers.

 

All of the Ranger talents do something for ranged alone. Figure there should be opposing talents so you could either build him melee or ranged focused or combo. I think that is a waste right now. I kind of like a 2H Ranger myself say with like a quarterstaff, real woodsy type of character.

 

And the annoying thing about pet is they are always active. And there are no scripts or options for the pet. I mean if you could just make the pet guard or attack only when melee attacked by enemy it be great. Now you have to micro that pet or it will die.

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The thing I don't like about Rangers is that have no melee talents at all. If you want your Ranger to melee it is pretty boring. You can use swift aim and throw cautious attack on him and the speed penalty actually get suppressed.

 

 

Swift&Steady is a melee talent, because Swift Aim works in melee. You can count Accurate Wounding Shot the same way, because it's also melee-friendly. I need to test Wounding Shot. Strengthened Bond is a talent which improves skill that only really becomes useful in melee. Animal companion talents boost its melee skills mostly.

Edited by b0rsuk
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I mentioned swift aim cancels cautious attack. But that is it. Everything else is ranged. I don't want melee boosting talents for the pet. I want melee flavored talents for the character. Rangers in PoE don't even have any stealth rogue "lite" abilities either.

 

i'm not sure about wounding shot either have to test it. From the description or way it is portrayed in the game you would think its only ranged. If it was called Wounding Attack then at least players would think oh i can use this in melee.

 

Vicious Aim is 100% only ranged. Again could have made it Vicious Attack. Could have added penalty to recover speed to emulate the penalty to reloading. Just an example on what could have been done.

 

Love Rangers. Usually always have 1 in the party. I still do in PoE but they don't feel very Ranger like. I am really disappointed with Rangers and Paladins in PoE. I don't think Rangers suck it just feels like in PoE they lean towards only being archers/gunners. But with Cautious Attack and a +10 deflection ring they can front line with 2 other melee characters. Or 2nd line in robes with Reach Weapon.

 

It would only take either modifying all abilities to be both melee and ranged or creating like 2 specific melee abilities. Say Rangers can special dual wield that also increases recovery time. Or if dual wielding they get 1.2x damage.  Or other talents that I can't think of.

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The thing I don't like about Rangers is that have no melee talents at all.

 

You mean, aside from the Ranger unique pet which is all about melee? And there are like half a dozen talents to improve it?

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^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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Yeah, I must be doing it wrong. Sagani is a ****ing beast in my game.

 

 

Having used both an NPC Ranger and Sagani before, I'll also say that she seems to crit unusually often compared to others.

"The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him."

 

 

Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?

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