The Lightsaber

[Nartwak]

I see that your maturity is as woefully pathetic as your sense of decency.

Yeah, I traded them to some gypsies for good taste.

[Shdy314]

Oh yeah that'd be Morrowind, one of the best RPG's, incorporated a 'damage sustained to weapon' system. So this idea is not unheard of in a CRPG.

 

Secondly, comparing the effects of Lightsabers in the movies is hardly insignificant, as it represents what the lightsaber is meant to be.

 

On the topic of movie-to-game integration of lightsaber eventualites, the devs of KotOR did succesfully depict 'blaster bolt deflection'. If the guys at Obsidian could somehow subsume the other properties (e.g. Obi-Wan using the saber to absorb Force Lightning, Qui-Gon piercing through armored plating, Mace Windu destoying Jango's blaster), it would add an unequivocal flavor of realism.

 

I didn't say it was unheard of. Just that it was a stupid idea for KOTOR2. And the damage system was a joke anyways. What did Dragonbone armor have? 50000hp? I never had a single item break on me ever. But still having to repair it all the time was annoying. Fun gameplay trumps bullsh** realism anyday. Morrowind is NOT one of the best CRPGs ever. It had so many flaws I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

I see that you had no logical arguments to a single point I brought up. Just repeated yourself saying how great it would be but offering no explanation and answering not a single point I mentioned. Like why wouldn't other weapons break items, etc.

 

Like I said this is a game. Not a movie. There will be differences. It is unavoidable. If you can't wrap your head around that fact then I'm not going to waste anymore energy discussing this with you. As for the other things you mentioned, the lightsaber already does go through armor plating. It can "bash" open anything and everything in KOTOR. Absorbing Sith lightning with the lightsaber actually is a pretty kewl idea. Much better than breakable items. Which incidentally the majority of casual gamers despise. And they are the ones going to make KOTOR a big commercial success. Not us hardcore gamers.

 

Realism at the expense of fun gameplay is never a good idea. Try to think two seconds into the future and realize how quickly items breaking goes from kewl and realistic to annoying and stupid.

[ichpokhudezh]

I see that you had no logical arguments to a single point I brought up. Just repeated yourself saying how great it would be but offering no explanation and answering not a single point I mentioned. Like why wouldn't other weapons break items, etc.

 

....

 

As for the other things you mentioned, the lightsaber already does go through armor plating. It can "bash" open anything and everything in KOTOR.

 

....

Try to think two seconds into the future and realize how quickly items breaking goes from kewl and realistic to annoying and stupid.

Side note: quoting here is an absolute PITA.... <_<

 

Lightsabers are quite different from the rest of weapons since there is a fighting style based on disarming your opponent.

 

Armor most definitely should take damage during battles. At least, this should be an option.

 

Regular melee weapons can bash locks as much as lightsabers can.

 

Besides, it is totally 'unkewl' to troll an opponent whom you disagree with...

<_<

[ichpokhudezh]

Qui-Gon piercing through armored plating

...

it would add an unequivocal flavor of realism.

I hope this won't make it. While it's somehow possible to rationalize away how a lightsaber user is unaffected by the energy of the weapon, this particular use defies any explanation.

[Shdy314]

Lightsabers are quite different from the rest of weapons since there is a fighting style based on disarming your opponent.

 

Armor most definitely should take damage during battles. At least, this should be an option.

 

Regular melee weapons can bash locks as much as lightsabers can.

 

Besides, it is totally 'unkewl' to troll an opponent whom you disagree with...

<_<

No lightsabers are not that different from other weapons. Not where they deserve all these unique properties. I want to see a big bloody hole when I shoot someone with a blaster. It's realistic after all. But it won't be in I'm sure. That's ok.

 

Armor should most definitely NOT take damage during battles. Ok, maybe it'd make the repair skill more useful but the vast majority of gamers, especially casual gamers hate breakable armor. It's only kewl until someone loses some uber lewt. Fun gameplay always trumps realism.

 

Yeah they can. This is one of those fun gameplay things that trumps realisms. Anyways that doesn't mean lightsabers AREN'T piercing steel. Just that melee blades are too.

 

No it is totally unkewl to call someone a troll just because they disagree with you and bring up a lot of important points you refuse to address. Just keep squawking like a parrot. "Rwrawwwk. I think it'd be kewl to make items break because I enjoy seeing that feature it's so realistic and I just bet every gamer in the whole world will love it too. Rwark what's that? Not worth implementing you say? Nonsense! Why?... Rwark because I like it." <_<

[ichpokhudezh]

Lightsabers are quite different from the rest of weapons since there is a fighting style based on disarming your opponent.

No lightsabers are not that different from other weapons. Not where they deserve all these unique properties. I want to see a big bloody hole when I shoot someone with a blaster. It's realistic after all. But it won't be in I'm sure. That's ok.

Gee... Can you read? It's not about being bloody/gruesome. I don't like it, in any case. There's no way you can argue that there is a fighting style with blasters/swords based on destroying weapons.

And lightsabers are unique in this aspect.

[Shdy314]

Lightsabers are quite different from the rest of weapons since there is a fighting style based on disarming your opponent.

No lightsabers are not that different from other weapons. Not where they deserve all these unique properties. I want to see a big bloody hole when I shoot someone with a blaster. It's realistic after all. But it won't be in I'm sure. That's ok.

Gee... Can you read? It's not about being bloody/gruesome. I don't like it, in any case. There's no way you can argue that there is a fighting style with blasters/swords based on destroying weapons.

And lightsabers are unique in this aspect.

I never said it was. Just that there are plenty of realistic features that COULD be put into the game but won't for a variety of reasons. I'm not arguing there is a fighting style to disarm/destroy weapons in SW. But it won't be in KOTOR so there's no point in making weapons destroyable now is there? Lightsabers are not unique in the aspect to destroy things. All the weapons can do this. Just cause you see them slicing and dicing stuff all the time don't forget other characters shoot things with blasters like armor and that gets damaged/destroyed too.

[ichpokhudezh]

Armor most definitely should take damage during battles. At least, this should be an option.

Armor should most definitely NOT take damage during battles. Ok, maybe it'd make the repair skill more useful but the vast majority of gamers, especially casual gamers hate breakable armor. It's only kewl until someone loses some uber lewt. Fun gameplay always trumps realism.

Please, note that I haven't suggested the full destruction of the armor. So no gamer will lose some item completely. Also please note that I mentioned that this could be an option.

Since you proclaim yourself to be 'hardcore' I really don't see why you protest so much... :look:

[Nartwak]

Please, note that I haven't suggested the full destruction of the armor.

So you're suggesting a pointless game mechanic just for it's own sake?

[ichpokhudezh]

And lightsabers are unique in this aspect.

Lightsabers are not unique in the aspect to destroy things. All the weapons can do this. Just cause you see them slicing and dicing stuff all the time don't forget other characters shoot things with blasters like armor and that gets damaged/destroyed too.

Armor/weapons normally are not destroyed. While it's possible to a blade to break, it's relatively rare occasion. A game cannot account all the occasions. Disarming your opponent with lightsaber, on the other hand, is not an occasion, it's the goal of a specific style.

[ichpokhudezh]

Please, note that I haven't suggested the full destruction of the armor.

So you're suggesting a pointless game mechanic just for it's own sake?

What's so pointless about needing to have your armor fixed after a battle? It'll give more incentive to become a powerful Force user, untouchable by regular weapons.

Otherwise, in KotOR, Canderous/Carth, given proper armor and blades, crush all the opposition.

[kefka]

I don't think armor should take damage but any melee weapon without cortosis should be destroyed on contact with a lightsaber. The problem is that cortosis is so common in Kotor. Regular troops should not have access to these weapons. Give them to commanders like the sith governor on Taris. Lightsabers in Kotor are fancy swords with pretty colors. Without the unique crystals they'd actually be worse than blades.

[Nartwak]

What's so pointless about needing to have your armor fixed after a battle?

If it isn't ever going to be destroyed outright, repairing it is just a bother. A nuisance. Busy work.

 

You're advocating the addition of an armor damage system, not because it broadens the scope of the game, but because it broadends the scope of the work.

 

The problem is that cortosis is so common in Kotor

I agree with this very much. This is one of my major gripes with the game.

[kefka]

btw, how strong are lightsabers in SW d20? I keep hearing about that but I'm no wiser as to how much better or worse they are than Kotor's implementation. It seems to rely on your own skill than the saber itself. Which isn't a bad idea really. I still think sabers need to be vastly superior to swords.

[Drakron]

Lightsabers ignore armor, that is SW d20 does not give a AC bonus but damage reduction and also object damage reduction.

 

In terms of damage they deal 2d8 with only the vibroaxe can beat (2d10) but the jedi classes get increase lightsaber damage depending on level and that makes then the most powerful when wielded by a jedi, at 20th level a guardian will deal 6d8 of damage.

 

So lightsabers are more powerful that swords even when wielded by a non jedi due to their ability to ignore damage reduction and in the hands of a jedi can deal more damage that the other meele weapons and even that other type of personal weapons (only a termal detonator 8d6 can beat it).

[triCritical]

Being a weak character and taking on a far superior foe is not insta-kill crap. I'm sure you could kill Sith guards in one swipe of your lightsaber by the end of KOTOR but that didn't mean you had insta-kills.

Don't roll you're eyes at me you punk ass.

 

insta-kill means insta-kill no matter what. The point I was trying to make is that insta-kill exist in BG no matter what level you are playing.

 

And if you can kill a guard with one... dare I say swipe, and he dies immediately, how is that not a instant kill? How is that mechanically different then killing an opponent with one swipe and then having them die instantly?

[Sorwen]

First I agree lightsabers were under powered. The special crystals you got at the end of the game helped, but not really. Yes there is some balancing issue, but I think if the went a little closer to d20 it would be better. Lightsabers should be the most powerful HAND held weapon in the game barring only a thermal detonator. The swords in the game were more powerful for several reasons and the Budwin(or whatever) for the PC were the most powerful weapons in the game period.

 

d20 adds the damage by class. Basically depending what Jedi call you have at say level 5 you would get to add 1d8 do the light sabers damage. The best combo of classes with add +4d8 so max damage would be 6d8 (2d8 from lightsaber, +1d8 from Jedi Guardian, and +3d8 from the Prestige Class Jedi Weapons Master.) Average good blaster does 3d6(Heavy Blaster or Carbine). You get feats like rapid fire that lets you shoot twice for a -2 to hit on both and you can do 12d6 in a round. There is also Multifire and Autofire on some weapons. Then there is the standard multiple attacks at each 6+ level.

 

Edit: With the few things I forgot that Drakron said. Went to luch and forgot to post this.

[Shdy314]

[AlanC9]

Something's bugging me here, although maybe this is a bit OT.

 

The Jedi outclassed the other companions in KotOR. My impression is that this was A Bad Thing. Wouldn't improving lightsabers just make this more pronounced in KotOR 2?

 

Even if skills are increased in usefulness, that still leaves the equivalents of Carth, Canderous, and HK-47 in the lurch.

[Shdy314]

Please, note that I haven't suggested the full destruction of the armor.

So you're suggesting a pointless game mechanic just for it's own sake?

What's so pointless about needing to have your armor fixed after a battle? It'll give more incentive to become a powerful Force user, untouchable by regular weapons.

Otherwise, in KotOR, Canderous/Carth, given proper armor and blades, crush all the opposition.

Like the opposition needs to be any easier to crush? What didn't crush the compettion? Heck even T3 can handle most fights all by himself. Combat needs to be a LOT harder before we go making lightsabers stronger.

[Sorwen]

Something's bugging me here, although maybe this is a bit OT.

 

The Jedi outclassed the other companions in KotOR. My impression is that this was A Bad Thing. Wouldn't improving lightsabers just make this more pronounced in KotOR 2?

 

Even if skills are increased in usefulness, that still leaves the equivalents of Carth, Canderous, and HK-47 in the lurch.

They need a better balancing. d20 does this by feats. Solider still get more choice feats than anyone else. If you choose the correct feats you can keep up with Jedi in total damage. The point is they were under keying what a lightsabers damage was and making normal sword just as powerful. Not to mention two weapon a sword was easier if I remember you could get a balanced weapon that helped off set -2 of the to hit. I still used a lightsaber for the "cool factor", but it didn't do the damage it should have.

[Shdy314]

Yes but what damage SHOULD it have done? KOTOR is NOT D20. So yes, GASP, some things are different. Worry about making combat actually challenging first. Then we can see if lightsabers need to do more damage.

[AlanC9]

They need a better balancing.  d20 does this by feats.  Solider still get more choice feats than anyone else.  If you choose the correct feats you can keep up with Jedi in total damage.

Is that really correct for the setting? Vader didn't seem to think he had anything at all to fear from Han et al., and it certainly didn't look like he had any reason to. Then again, he might have been far higher in level than Han? (OK, he's not a soldier, but you get my drift)

 

Edit: That sounds like I'm advocating that Jedi should rule the game. I'm not - I'm actually conflicted on that point.

[kefka]

Something's bugging me here, although maybe this is a bit OT.

 

The Jedi outclassed the other companions in KotOR. My impression is that this was A Bad Thing. Wouldn't improving lightsabers just make this more pronounced in KotOR 2?

I'd prefer them to nerf force powers and increase lightsaber effectiveness. You don't even need a saber when you can kill almost everything with force wave. The ability to cast hi-level powers multiple times really unbalanced the game. I felt more like a wizard than a Jedi.

[Drakron]

Yes but what damage SHOULD it have done? KOTOR is NOT D20. So yes, GASP, some things are different. Worry about making combat actually challenging first. Then we can see if lightsabers need to do more damage.

SW:KotOR uses a d20 system, it might not be Star Wars d20 but its a d20 system.

 

The fact its a broken system does not change its a d20 system, from what I seen The Munchkin Lords are not really fixing the system but continue to breaking it.