Melee dps doesn't seem worth the risk

[Vyzare]

So, in BG 1 and 2 I loved playing well made melee dps classes.  Fighter/Thief multi usually being my favorite.  Between stealth openers and invis potions and other ways of being sneaky you had an active class that was squishy, but had lots of ways to get out of combat.

 

Now in PoE so far I've tried pretty much all the melee archetypes and cannot find a dps class that can put out numbers on par with a ranged rogue.  It seems to me that being up in the thick of things should have some benefit, but all it does is allow you to catch a stray aoe or an unencountered mob and get insta-killed.

 

Is there something I'm missing here for melee dps?  I've tried heavy armor, medium armor, no armor, but I just can't find any way to make it worth using over range.

[Nerdwing]

Honestly, Im leaning closer and closer to this opinion myself.  Estoc aside (and even then).

 

I like where ranged is overall, but there are a good bit of melee elements that seem to be lackluster.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Nerdwing

[Lasci]

If you can't find someone that can do more damage than a ranged rogue, you're not trying.

 

Ranged rogue is safe and easy. I definitely wouldn't say that it does more damage than a melee rogue, though. 

 

In general, on PotD -- and that's the only difficulty where melee DPS struggle -- yes, something like a melee barbarian or a rogue is going to struggle a little bit more because there's a lot more micromanagement and it's easier to be lazy and rest than to micromanage and pause constantly to make sure they don't get chunked down.

[Benedictous]

Well if it seems that if you are even targetted by a single monster DR prolongs the inevitable death.  Deflection is everything and you just can't afford to be sitting around waiting for monsters to situate themselves around your tanks, while your casters are blowing things up.  It seems that damage was balanced around your melee being naked with 20 might and dex and max DR penetration. They just left out the monster hitting back part of the calculation.

[Vyzare]

Well if it seems that if you are even targetted by a single monster DR prolongs the inevitable death.  Deflection is everything and you just can't afford to be sitting around waiting for monsters to situate themselves around your tanks, while your casters are blowing things up.  It seems that damage was balanced around your melee being naked with 20 might and dex and max DR penetration. They just left out the monster hitting back part of the calculation.

This has basically been my problem.  If I wait to send in a melee dps until the tanks are fully engaged by the time they actually get near something the casters and ranged have usually mopped up everything.  I'm just having an issue justifying all the extra babysitting a melee dps needs, since they don't even seem to bring that much more oomph than a ranged does.

[Malitias]

If you can't find someone that can do more damage than a ranged rogue, you're not trying.

You know, maybe you don't know, but things like that just make you seem like a person you won't listen to anyway.

It makes you look like a stuck up wanna-be pro.

 

I pretty much had that same feeling with my party. I've tried playing Cipher as a melee, but ended up giving him a blunderbuss, because of the weird way focus is gained.

[Judicator]

Eh, a Barbarian can pretty much mop up an entire encounter by himself. They do require micromanagment though.

[eubatham]

Eh, a Barbarian can pretty much mop up an entire encounter by himself. They do require micromanagment though.

 

Maybe on easy, on higher difficulties this certainly isn't the case.

[Dongom]

There's a few Barb/Rogue builds that aren't that risky yet do insane damage thanks to Retaliation+Drain+Class talents.

 

But a straight forward glass cannon melee dps can be rough in this game, I agree.  Especially Monk, as you actually need to get hit.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Dongom

[Tigranes]

My dual-wield rogue on POTD is doing just fine, dishing out a lot of damage. No idea how it compares to a ranged rogue, as I haven't tried that.

[Shadenuat]

Barb, naked, any reach weapon, Frenzy, brute force, sickeness debuff, savage assault. Works well enough on PoTD.

[Benedictous]

Barb, naked, any reach weapon, Frenzy, brute force, sickeness debuff, savage assault. Works well enough on PoTD.

Reach Weapon... a melee that can't stand in melee. O ya no DR bypass on any reach weapons either, so enjoy those carnage hits for 7.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Benedictous

[tnc]

In hard they can do anything really... if you believe they are only good on easy then you clearly dont know the game mechanics. Please check the status effects and use them to your advantage. You cant just cast fireballs and expect to win in this game. My barb is offensively built and hits for 50+ damage on level 6 right now and he never goes down coz i'm supporting with casters. On PotD you NEED to cast support spells and debuffs... you can cast them on whole party and give accuracy and deflection bonuses. Debuff the enemy too and you'll gain a huge advantage, if you use proper spells/abilities you cant die in this game not even on hardest mode.

[Shadenuat]

 

Barb, naked, any reach weapon, Frenzy, brute force, sickeness debuff, savage assault. Works well enough on PoTD.

Reach Weapon... a melee that can't stand in melee. O ya no DR bypass on any reach weapons either, so enjoy those carnage hits for 7.

You can just switch between 2 weapons with different types of damage or apply elemental damage to your weapons too. The DR on some monsters is so insane Estoc actually doesn't do as much as some people think.

 

No DPSer can stand in melee period, ever, because for most damage you can't use armor.

 

That ****ing sucks and I liked potential of melee in IE games more but that's just how this game works.

[Kelstrom]

 

 

Barb, naked, any reach weapon, Frenzy, brute force, sickeness debuff, savage assault. Works well enough on PoTD.

Reach Weapon... a melee that can't stand in melee. O ya no DR bypass on any reach weapons either, so enjoy those carnage hits for 7.

You can just switch between 2 weapons with different types of damage or apply elemental damage to your weapons too. The DR on some monsters is so insane Estoc actually doesn't do as much as some people think.

 

No DPSer can stand in melee period, ever, because for most damage you can't use armor.

 

That ****ing sucks and I liked potential of melee in IE games more but that's just how this game works.

 

This statement is very true, BUT only for you! It looks like you need more practice with melee dps classes. They can do wonders.

 

I play barbarian with oly 10 base con. He is as tanky as my fighter. The key thing is that you have to use a plate armor and dr belt. Dont worry about the attack speed, my barb has -50% from armor and -20% from a talent and he is stll a DPS machine, better than anyone in my party. This is on POTD.

 

There were some monsters with 31 piercing dr (in Ondra's gift), the barbarian just destroyed them like nothing.

 

The support is very important, with druid debuffs and priest buffs your melee guys can be devastating.

[Spivo]

So, in BG 1 and 2 I loved playing well made melee dps classes.  Fighter/Thief multi usually being my favorite.  Between stealth openers and invis potions and other ways of being sneaky you had an active class that was squishy, but had lots of ways to get out of combat.

 

Now in PoE so far I've tried pretty much all the melee archetypes and cannot find a dps class that can put out numbers on par with a ranged rogue.  It seems to me that being up in the thick of things should have some benefit, but all it does is allow you to catch a stray aoe or an unencountered mob and get insta-killed.

 

Is there something I'm missing here for melee dps?  I've tried heavy armor, medium armor, no armor, but I just can't find any way to make it worth using over range.

BG1 was infamous for ranged being stupidly OP compared to melee, sling on 6 ranged weapons and obliterate anything in the game.

Kobold commandos?

 

Anyway, it would be nice to see interrupt being more harsh on ranged.

[Climhazzard]

Offensive monk and barbarian are very viable for hard difficulty and below, haven't tried rogue.  I try not to min max to much because it imo creates weaknesses that a melee dps can't handle.  

 

Anyways if you are wondering about a monk build try

 

16s-12c-16d-10p-8i-16r  or  16-10-16-10-10-16 for better range on torments reach.

 

Balanced offensive and defensive stats, enough intelligence that the range on torment's reach isn't gimped.  I don't use swift strikes, I prefer torments reach, force of anguish, and flaggelant's path.  

 

Preferred abilities

 

Torment's reach-  Monk aoe damage, and you can spam it on single targets for good dps too.

Force of anguish-  Very fun ability to use, strong crowd control you can use to protect yourself or party members.

Flaggelant's path-  Teleport to any mob, great for taking out pesky mages, or getting to team members in danger, I love this one.

Rooting pain-  If you get mobbed, this kills weaker enemies by itself.

Turning wheel-  your auto attack damage goes up as you accumulate wounds

 

Preferred talents

 

Weapon focus: Peasant-  Fists actually do great damage, I think sabers have the highest potential for damage with Torments reach though, so I'm going to try Ruffian on my next playthrough.

Lesser wounds-  Essential for monk dps, you really need to be able to spam your abilities.

Two weapon style-  Two weapons for highest full attack damage on torment's reach, it works with fists too, I tested it quite a bit to make sure.

Vulnerable attack-  Most opponents have enough armor to make this worth it.

Duality of mortal presence-  Monk can't be played as glass canon, this talent helps you control incoming damage, turn it off if the mobs are weaker than you.

Superior deflection-  Same as above, except you can't turn it off.

Fast runner-  Entirely optional, I just like running faster to high priority targets.  And the deflection bonus helps a bit when I force engagement attacks to accumulate wounds.

 

Second skin-  Talent received for doing the crucible knights quest line, it adds +2 to damage resistance, which is helpful since I like to wear enchanted clothes or enchanted berathian priest robes, plus the blunting belt.

 

 

Tips

 

-In a 1v1 situation, move to force a disengagement attack if you want to accumulate wounds faster.  

-If you carry multiple sets of armor, you can equip the level of armor that helps you best control your wound accumulation rate and endurance.  You don't usually need to wear heavy armor, but it's good to have the option readily available.

-There is no proper cone display for torment's reach like their is other aoe abilities, but be aware that when properly lined up it can hit several targets.

-Use force of anguish to prevent being overwhelmed by multiple opponents.

 

Anyways, I can assure you that, at least on hard, melee dps is quite viable.  I generally have 3 melee in my parties, at least one is dps.  My monk outdamages the casters by a fair margin, because of their rest limitations, I don't use cipher to much for damage though, mostly for CC.  Barbarians also do quite well, but I don't like them quite as much so I don't know a good build.

[Judicator]

 

Eh, a Barbarian can pretty much mop up an entire encounter by himself. They do require micromanagment though.

 

Maybe on easy, on higher difficulties this certainly isn't the case.

 

Well, I'm playing on Hard and my Barb is destroying everything in his path. You need to have your tanks engage the enemies first and have him kite them, of course, but after that the Barbarian can slaughter entire groups in a few blows.

[Shadenuat]

The fun part with barb starts when Chanter gets aura that adds fire damage to weapons.

[peddroelm]

I'm playing a melee heavy party trough the hardest difficulty as my fist playtrough ..

 

3 weapon and shield defensive line / tanks ( fighter/paladin/chanter )

3 damage dealers (pike barb to poke enemies from behind defensive line, 2 wield rogue and fist monk for starting flanking opperations )  ..  Currenly party is level 3 with level 4 barb protagonist..

 

 

It can be incredibly fun  or incredibly frustrating when  characters break formation and start doing stooopid things WITHOUT ORDERS .. Combat interface needs some working (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76286-disable-auto-attackengage-option-not-working/) to be able to properly control melee heavy party ..

Edited April 7, 2015 by peddroelm

[Kelstrom]

I'm playing a melee heavy party trough the hardest difficulty as my fist playtrough ..

 

3 weapon and shield defensive line / tanks ( fighter/paladin/chanter )

3 damage dealers (pike barb to poke enemies from behind defensive line, 2 wield rogue and fist monk for starting flanking opperations )  ..  Currenly party is level 3 with level 4 barb protagonist..

 

 

It can be incredibly fun  or incredibly frustrating chracters break formation - start doing stooopid things WITHOUT ORDERS .. Combat interface needs some working (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76286-disable-auto-attackengage-option-not-working/) to be able to properly control melee heavy party ..

Which of your party members is top dps?

[peddroelm]

 

Which of your party members is top dps?

 

 

Barb (PC) ..  Rogue is close .. I've messed up the monk build due to my inexperience so she's a bit behind the other two ..There is still time to take some corrective action as she is still only lvl 3 ..

[Tvättbjörn]

I'm running a no caster party through PotD (fighter, paladin, 2h barbarian, 3 ranged rogues). The barbarian consistently does almost twice the damage of a rogue and she is definitely a valuable member of the team because she is the only non-consumable source of AoE damage. She also has decent survivability with the large endurance pool and the self-heal so she can help protect the rogues when enemies get past the main tanks.

 

In a normal party I think having an extra melee that is more focused on dps but with some resilience can be valuable as well, but of course wizards and druids are better suited for pure AoE damage.

 

It would be fun to try a 6 melee party with something like 2 main tanks, 1 single target dps and 3 barbarians. I think it could be very powerful, especially against shades and the likes because they don't have any overly squishy targets. It does make it more difficult to focus down important enemies like casters though and it's always nice to have some ranged damage dealers for chokepoint fights.