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#141
Elerond

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'Buggy as hell' would mean every CRPG in the last 25 years was at least 'buggy as hell', possibly buggy as several hells collapsed into a giant vortex of helldom. 

 

Every game has the 20 people who sit on the forums complaining for weeks about how this is the 'worst/buggiest game evar' because they got some bugs.

 

Compared to games like DA:O and Fallout 3 that constantly crash and DA:O's wonderful slowing bug when you played it over 3/4 hours was also very wonderful thing. And in Fallout 3 I especially enjoyed dropping in dark void in even floor. So on and so forth. PoE has have quite minor bugs, which of course don't necessary help those who encountered worst of them.


Edited by Elerond, 23 April 2015 - 11:19 AM.


#142
Amentep

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To be fair, bugs are a part of the territory. I haven't played a computer game since the C64 days that didn't have some kind of bugs.



#143
Hurlshot

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It seems like they've been fairly active in patching and trying to fix bugs, so I don't really hold it against them.



#144
Malcador

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I had expected them to have about 3 or 4 emergency patches out by now.
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#145
Luj1

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Some game breaking bugs are still not fixed after 30 days.

 

But its important that limericks who have 0% impact on gameplay are instantly changed because some tranny got butthurt and cried to Josh



#146
Flouride

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So there's your reason for all the butthurt. Good to know.



#147
Luj1

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uh no... there's even better joke in the game now..... im butthurt coz 2 game breaking bugs still not fixxed



#148
Amentep

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All they had to do with the memorial was review submission, type it in file, press "save" and double checking final results.  I'm sure they totally could have solved 5-6 critical bugs in that time.  Such a waste of their resources...


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#149
Flouride

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All they had to do with the memorial was review submission, type it in file, press "save" and double checking final results.  I'm sure they totally could have solved 5-6 critical bugs in that time.  Such a waste of their resources...

 

Indeed. I bet they went on a two month holiday right after fixing that issue, since it took so much effort to change it.


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#150
BAdler

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I know that most of you know this, but I will reiterate...

 

Making games is hard. Making complex RPGs is even harder. Take it from a person that has worked on a few different styles of games, these sprawling RPGs are insanely complex in comparison. Systems are weaved into a bunch of other systems and even the tiniest change can cause a wave of instability throughout the game.

 

The thing that lots of people forget is that a game is a special piece of software. What I mean is that we can plan out a game completely - all of the design, art, programming, audio, etc. - and it can be executed perfectly... and the game may still be horrible. Proper planning and designing are essential in making great games, but it won't get you there alone. Lots of our ideas sound great on paper, but in practice they fall flat. Making great games require myriad adjustments and changes.

 

Sometimes these changes are minor and don't require adjustments to a previously implemented system. Those are the best kind of changes. Other times you need to make sweeping changes to a system that have long term, rippling repercussions. We try to avoid those types of changes, but sometimes it is the only way to make something fun. As a real world example, there were some classes in PoE that went through some pretty drastic changes from their original designs. This happened because, once we started using the classes in an actual game environment, we found they weren't as fun or useful as we wanted. We could have left the original designs in place (and maybe it would have given us a more polished experience), but it might have made a game that wasn't as fun.

 

All of this isn't to say that the project's management team is without blame. Far from it. None of these decisions are made in a vacuum and for every planned feature we change, we should be taking it out of something else - either a time buffer or another feature (or, if you are lucky, you can get more budget/time). That means if we want to revamp one of our classes, the responsible thing to do would be to see how much it will cost (in resources and time) to implement these changes and pull that from something else. It is a constant push and pull and I will be the first to admit that I can always do better in this department.

 

Overall, I was very pleased with what we accomplished on the limited budget and resources. Nowadays games of this size have budgets anywhere from three to ten times what our team was working with.

 

The important thing is to take the lessons learned from PoE and move it forward into our future projects. Much easier said than done, though.


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#151
HoonDing

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All games out there are an unplayable buggy mess, except for the ones I like.


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#152
majestic

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All they had to do with the memorial was review submission, type it in file, press "save" and double checking final results.  I'm sure they totally could have solved 5-6 critical bugs in that time.  Such a waste of their resources...

 

Not to mention the completely inane assumption that the person who worked on changing the limerick would have worked on fixing some other bug instead. Next on the list are any complaints about Obsidian already working on the expansion instead of "fixing them annoying bugs!!!11oneone fix you'Re gaem1111" as if those working on new content would be the same people currently working on the patch(es).

 

Because, well, it's still 1990 and games are made by three people. Yeah. Sounds about right. :)


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#153
ilhdr

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The only problem of obsidian is the apparently lack of any kind of mid-long term plans.



#154
kaiki

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The only problem of obsidian is the apparently lack of any kind of mid-long term plans.

 

"Get Rich or Die Tryin'" I think that is the company motto and perpetual plan.


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#155
Nonek

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The best laid plans...

 

Ten years in business, numerous best selling titles and staff whom are keen to rejoin the company, well that speaks for itself. Especially in the midst of an economic downturn, where numerous contracts were cancelled and desperate situations arose. Obsidian have survived where Titans have fallen, and sometimes a canny businessman has to play it by ear in a turbulent market.

 

Edit: This is not to say that i don't have valid criticisms of Poe, but they are minor and I feel that my purchase was all in all worthwhile. I cannot say the same for many AAA+ games I have purchased whose budgets dwarfed Jim Sterling's lunch bill!


Edited by Nonek, 06 May 2015 - 03:37 PM.

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#156
Hassat Hunter

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The only problem of obsidian is the apparently lack of any kind of mid-long term plans.

 

How exactly does one long-term project what orders they might get from publishers...?

Not to mention several of said orders where terminated prematurely (Alien RPG for example) or the funders went down under (South Park).



#157
luzarius

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Hi! I'm a massive fan of Black Isle / Troika / Obsidian as well as a student majoring in Computer Science, a game hobbyist and an amateur game developer. (Disclaimer)

 

So, my question for today is a very profound one, and one that carries a lot of meaning to me, personally, and especially from a game developer studio perspective: What's wrong with Obsidian?

 

Everything starts with Black Isle and Fallout, which (if you're aware of the story around the production) was a general huge mother****ing mess. After Black Isle was shot down, the general messiness seemed to follow with Troika games, who made a couple of brilliant yet very flawed games. After that, the legacy, thanks to a few key individuals and their ideals, was transferred into what is today Obsidian.

 

Now, as a disclaimer, I have to say, I love everything created by these guys: Black Isle Studios, Troika and Obsidian. BI's slogan: "By gamers, for gamers" is still something I keep as an inspiration very close to my heart every single day (as an unknown amateur developer), and what they created is simply beautiful. However, everything created by this troupe and their derivatives has always been somehow fundamentally wrong: bugged as hell, imbalanced as foobar, illogical as hell.

 

My question is: WTF is wrong with Obsidian? Why can't they make solid products? I know there's a lot of tension between publisher - developer relations, that's always a handful and something for an entirely different discussion, but my presumption here today is that:

There is something wrong with the communication between the designers and the coders in Obsidian?

 

Because at many times it seems I'm playing a game with a beautifully designed world with lots of content and shreds of the designers souls visibly poured into every single detail, yet at other times I'm stumbling upon the very simplistic, childish even, mistakes that could be repaired with some simple programming with a little bit of forethought. Are you guys talking? Is there something between, even though this time (PoE) you were independently funded, and no publisher has a **** to say about yoru game? What's the problem?

 

Now, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm simply tryng to inquire some details about your methods into developing games, and whether there'd be something to improve. No doubt I'm going to get a generic response of "yes, we're constantly improving our methods and processes in all areas", but what I'm really interested in is the actual schizms between the programmers and the designers, since that's what I think is the main reason for this outcome.

 

Anyway, while any perspectives are welcome, obviously I'd rather take on some pov's from the crew.

 

Did you like POE?



#158
Bryy

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All they had to do with the memorial was review submission, type it in file, press "save" and double checking final results.  I'm sure they totally could have solved 5-6 critical bugs in that time.  Such a waste of their resources...

 

Not to mention the completely inane assumption that the person who worked on changing the limerick would have worked on fixing some other bug instead. 

Wait, are people actually saying thi -

 

Of course they are.

 

 

The best laid plans...

 

Ten years in business, numerous best selling titles and staff whom are keen to rejoin the company, well that speaks for itself. Especially in the midst of an economic downturn, where numerous contracts were cancelled and desperate situations arose. Obsidian have survived where Titans have fallen, and sometimes a canny businessman has to play it by ear in a turbulent market.

 

Edit: This is not to say that i don't have valid criticisms of Poe, but they are minor and I feel that my purchase was all in all worthwhile. I cannot say the same for many AAA+ games I have purchased whose budgets dwarfed Jim Sterling's lunch bill!

Yeeeeeeah. Obsidian's been doing this forever. It's not like, say, a certain company up north from me that has been running on duct tape and chewing gum.


Edited by Bryy, 11 May 2015 - 08:36 PM.


#159
Dadalama

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It's brittle and, like flint, it's not easy to get a proper knife/arrowhead out of. It also has a fairly small effective length. 


Edited by Dadalama, 11 May 2015 - 09:05 PM.

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#160
majestic

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It's brittle and, like flint, it's not easy to get a proper knife/arrowhead out of. It also has a fairly small effective length. 

 

But it's necessary in the fight against the Others. \o/


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