Eldritch Knight equivalent?

[Magrusaod]

I've been busy busy busy, and waiting on this patch to hit before continuing the game. I have the urge to play a battle mage type character. However, my rundown of this system seems to tell me that it isn't viable in anything but easy mode with a lineup of try hard optimized custom characters to back him up and support him. 

 

So before I crash into my drunken stupor tonight, I am curious. Has anyone made a front line melee wizard work in this game? Obviously, your reaction time would suffer with heavy armor. However, I am curious if folks found a way to just self buff and then blast the enemy with a wizard yet. As opposed to your back line nuker/CC controller type build. If so, I am curious and interested. Let me know. If not, I'll tinker in the coming week or so. 

[Supreme]

Cipher fits the bill.

[Magrusaod]

Aye, I can build a Cipher. I can build a druid too. However, curious if I can make a viable wizard or not. Hence my asking if anyone has tried. 

[GreatBeyonder]

Well, I haven't test driven it on higher difficulties, but there are several wizard spells that summon armor and weaponry, and Might and Dexterity are recommended stats at character creation.

 

I ran a 18/8/18/6/18/7 build just fine, though like all wizard builds, the early levels are always a challenge.

[Magrusaod]

Hrm, yeah. My issue is I am considering the scenarios I would run into. You want your Might and Intelligence as a caster, duh. You want Dex, for action speed for the pew pew. However, you are front line. So you can't really dump the others like a back line wizard can. We also run into the issue of, aside from just bottom line survival, needing moderate Con, Per, and Resolve. We also need to consider Concentration to avoid being interrupted on the front line. Meaning, Resolve may become a 1st tier attribute for a front line Wizard. 

Will, Concentration and Deflection, all good for the front liner. Doesn't affect my spells directly. HOWEVER, will allow me to finish a spell if I am hit with an interrupt effect. Which leaves me with one of my conundrums. Do I go for more of a moderate spread, tank friendly build with the ability to throw out nukes without any friendlies in front of me? As that's an asset. not needing to risk your back line, unarmed squishy wizard moving into someone's Engagement in order to throw Fan of Flames or something else.

 

You simply led your tank take the brunt of the mob, and the battle mage eat the rest, then set them on fire and nuke them. So, yeah, Concentration will be important, and perhaps, protection against Prone/Stun. Which may lock Race choice into me with the one who grants that. 

Does anyone have ideas furthering this concept? 

[GreatBeyonder]

Well, if you're going for extra defense, I'm a fan of the Moon and Nature Godlike racials. I also don't see a reason to skimp on armor.

[Lasci]

Melee wizard is much better than melee Cipher. I just can't stomach the idea of a Cipher getting caught up in melee.

 

To elaborate-

Fan of Flames is going to be your bread and butter in encounters for a while. Meanwhile, you can grab any two-hander you like (preferably one with reach) and use it to get into melee while hiding behind your front line. When you have enough spells per rest to use it, you're going to want to start to utilize the level one spell that gives you a magical quarterstaff. This thing is the best weapon in the game for a good while and will sustain you in longer fights. You also want the level one spell that gives you +15 accuracy, for obvious reasons.

 

Otherwise, you basically want to utilize all the relevant self buffs you can get while picking up the best damage dealing spell of each spell level.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Lasci

[Magrusaod]

Yeah, Fan of Flames looks like my best option. High damage AOE vs an encounter based Health/Endurance system is just the strongest method. Burst someone down, you win. However, with limited spells per day, I am torn. Ideally, the spell which grants me accuracy paired with Parasitic Staff would be ideal for this build. However, I won't be able to do that every encounter until I reach level 9. Which is a bummer. That would rock. It would eat into combat rounds, but I could with tactical timing and movement, boost my accuracy, and then summon the staff as my initial volley from the rest of the party is on its way. Then have my tank engage the bulk of the enemy and just swing at whatever comes my way. CC whatever is needed from the front, and if the enemy is stupid enough to dog pile me, fan of flames and nuke everything in my path. 

 

I put together a simplistic 21 Might, 17 Int, 10 across the board Amaua, the type that gets bonus vs Prone/Stun? That +2 to Might and the ability to resist being just shut down was too hard to pass up for me. Went against what I intended, but was curious to try it out. Unfortunately, too tired to get through the intro. >.< I think I will need a custom party to make this work, but sold my backer ring and the horrid gun you find early on. Have about 2000 copper before the battle where the caravan is wiped out, so should be rich by the time I sell things at the Black Dog. I can pick up some companions there. I am thinking, if I take Aloths armor, Kana's Headband, and Durance's Staff and dump it on my wizard it will give me a reach weapon to work from just behind the tank and extra AOE ranged. 

 

Curious if folks have any further input. I might change up this build, as I haven't even grabbed the waterskin and set into motion the chain of events that it unfolds. Simple test run tonight. Easy enough to start over and all and scrap this plan/build. 

[lyin321]

 Do you mean it is level 9 where some of your spells become per encounter? If so that sux! - so late:((

 

...btw don't forget that the wizard also have other spells to leech endurance (beyond the staff). It probably is impossible to make a wizard that can tank on hard (normal too maybe...?) difficulty, but someone that doesn't die if a mob look in their direction? Absolutely.

 I think the new patch made the arcane veil per encounter (tho that might be mod I have installed:) ) which will give you good deflection..

 

...but I am not sure about the lack of resolve&perception - maybe have 10-12 int instead? Or somewhat low Might and average int?

 

Edit: My mistake...arcane veil is per rest...time to redownload the mod:)

Edited April 4, 2015 by lyin321

[gkathellar]

It's technically doable, but in practice it doesn't work well. The thing is, your natural lack of accuracy and Deflection are going to hurt. A lot.

 

Honestly, if you want a melee mage, go Chanter. Hulking armored necromancer-skald gogogo

[Smorensky]

Hmm I duuno, so far it looks like frontline wizard is doable, but problematic as any spell you might use is per rest. Dunno how to solve this... Would be awsome if wizards could pick one or two lower lvl spells to be per encounter instead of per rest, that would fix most issues I think.

 

I only see one problem with that build, you will still stand behind your tanks during the encounters and that will make use of spells problematic at best, fan of flames in particular is dificult to cast unless you have a perfectly formed frontline or you stand in the enemy's face. (And if you try and position your wizard at the edges of combat in order to cast it, it is not much different from any other wizard).

[ChipMHazard]

I tried making a more tanky melee wizard, doesn't really seem to be worth it. You can stack effects to get a very high deflection going, but it will require frequent rests to keep it up. There are some high level spells that would be worth using in a tanky build e.g. Torrent of Flame and Citzal's Martial Power (No idea if that one is still in the game). You will also have to keep casting draining spells to keep your endurance up. So overall it's doable, but high maintenance. 

I would think that the best melee wizard would be one focused on two hander and going for flanking attacks or stand behind your fighters with a reach weapon, probably not ideal since they would get in the way of your spells. 

Edited April 4, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[ErlKing]

It is possible to make wizard go melee, there are several spells suiting that playstyle, BUT wizards here are heavy artillery - strong spells per rest, so people usually tend to keep wizards as emergency option instead of everyday nuker. Same for priests and druids actually, though those not as squishy as wizard.

 

You can wait for mod that ll make wizard spells per encounter, or something like that, or try melee Cipher (not optimal, but viable in some ways), but Cipher cant be tank-fighter, more like rogue.

Edited April 4, 2015 by ErlKing

[Ichthyic]

in another thread, someone figured out you can use retaliate with your cipher... and they generate focus on retaliation.

if you have used a cipher, you can figure out what that means.

 

[View619]

Fighter with high lore skill and scrolls, or Chanter. The wizard's buff spells are cool, but they should not be combat only. If OE ever makes that change, melee Wizard may actually be viable.

Edited April 4, 2015 by View619

[CaptainMace]

I haven't tried at all, though anybody knows what would a more-or-less mix-maxed wizard with high Perception,Intellect, Resolve would do ?
The idea is to max out the bonus deflection and duration of self buffs, leaving constitution, might and dexterity behind. Spells would obviously be about self buffs, summoned weapons and close range burst and aoe's.

How would that work, considering the extreme feebleness of the wizards upfront ?

 

Would be awsome if wizards could pick one or two lower lvl spells to be per encounter instead of per rest, that would fix most issues I think

 

According to the manual, it happens at higher levels than what the game allows. Probably in the expansion. It changes per-rest to per-encounter for lvl 1 spells, then 2 and so on as the wizard levels up.

Edited April 4, 2015 by CaptainMace

[Odd Hermit]

Chanter is the only thing close.

 

Which IMO is fine. D&D caster/melee juggernaut hybrids were always a bit too "I want everything in one package" making the actual fighter-ish classes kinda pointless. Clerics were basically superior fighters - as long their buffs were up - and with heals, debuff, CC, nukes.

 

 

 

I haven't tried at all, though anybody knows what would a more-or-less mix-maxed wizard with high Perception,Intellect, Resolve would do ?
The idea is to max out the bonus deflection and duration of self buffs, leaving constitution, might and dexterity behind. Spells would obviously be about self buffs, summoned weapons and close range burst and aoe's.

How would that work, considering the extreme feebleness of the wizards upfront ?

 

It pretty much wouldn't work. Dropping might and dex means your damage would be terrible so what's the point in buffing yourself for close range burst exactly?

 

You'd be a ~somewhat less likely to be hit wizard with terrible damage output and slow spell casts.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[Ichthyic]

just to be clear though, there are no clerics in POE.  priests are more like divine mages than the old DnD cleric class.

putting heavy armor on priest and sending into your front line as a meleer is a waste, unlike the old cleric.

took me a while to adjust to that, but I'm there now.

painful interdiction and seal spam ftw.

 

[Ichthyic]

I haven't tried at all, though anybody knows what would a more-or-less mix-maxed wizard with high Perception,Intellect, Resolve would do ?

The idea is to max out the bonus deflection and duration of self buffs, leaving constitution, might and dexterity behind. Spells would obviously be about self buffs, summoned weapons and close range burst and aoe's.

 

How would that work, considering the extreme feebleness of the wizards upfront ?

 

Would be awsome if wizards could pick one or two lower lvl spells to be per encounter instead of per rest, that would fix most issues I think

 

According to the manual, it happens at higher levels than what the game allows. Probably in the expansion. It changes per-rest to per-encounter for lvl 1 spells, then 2 and so on as the wizard levels up.

I tried that on a mage, and found that you actually don't need high resolve, as it's pretty rare you're getting hit if you position it right.  Plus, your base deflection scores are terrible compred to a fighter or paladin, or even a chanter, so the bonus from high perception and resolve to deflection doesn't help as much as you might think.

 

OTOH, your spells suck if you have either low intellect OR low might.

 

so, no, I wold recommend putting your points into:

 

intellect

might

dexterity

perception

resolve

constitution

 

In pretty much that order of importance.

 

the perception is mostly for interrupt ability when you hit with your spells, than for deflection defense.  though it also helps a tad with reflex, which is good if you fail to interrupt someone tossing a fireball or lightning bolt at you.

 

con is the dump stat, simply because again, the idea is to keep your mage *away* from taking damage.

 

this would totally be the glass cannon build; the exact polar opposite of what the OP wants, but... there it is anyway.

 

unlike the priest, which is more magelike than clericlike in this game, mages here are pretty much like mages in DND, and seem to work best played that way IMO.. aside from the fact you need might to boost your damage with spells.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ichthyic

[lyin321]

 

I haven't tried at all, though anybody knows what would a more-or-less mix-maxed wizard with high Perception,Intellect, Resolve would do ?

The idea is to max out the bonus deflection and duration of self buffs, leaving constitution, might and dexterity behind. Spells would obviously be about self buffs, summoned weapons and close range burst and aoe's.

 

How would that work, considering the extreme feebleness of the wizards upfront ?

 

It pretty much wouldn't work. Dropping might and dex means your damage would be terrible so what's the point in buffing yourself for close range burst exactly?

 

You'd be a ~somewhat less likely to be hit wizard with terrible damage output and slow spell casts.

 

...not exactly right as the might (unless you go all out and have 21) is not all that much bonus (3 per 1 point I think)...now there is also +healing which might be important for your leech spells...

...oh and my original point was you could make some of the +dmg that you lose with low might with items...

 As for the low dex (unless it's really low) just use light/medium armor and not plate and you will be fine....I don't expect you to hit as often or as hard as strong melee chars (fighter etc), but I suspect neither than you:)

 Tho such a wizard will be more of a wizard than an eldritch knight....

[Molcho]

I posted a thread about my close combat wizard literally one minute ago. Should be up any minute 

 

It's technically doable, but in practice it doesn't work well. The thing is, your natural lack of accuracy and Deflection are going to hurt. A lot.

Honestly, if you want a melee mage, go Chanter. Hulking armored necromancer-skald gogogo

 

 

How does 109 deflection at lvl 5 sound? Without even using a shield, that is.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Molcho

[Ichthyic]

you mean... so long as your arcane shield is up.

what's your BASE deflection score at level 5?  around 45?

 

[Molcho]

I think about 39. Wizards have pathetic stats, but the buffs will mitigate that just fine.

[lyin321]

 

 

How does 109 deflection at lvl 5 sound? Without even using a shield, that is.

 

 But isn't the duration of arcane veil too short? It doesn't look like the awesomness that was stone skin:)

 

Currently reading your more in depth post so if my question is answered there feel free not to repeat yourself...

[Anthony Stark]

I think about 39. Wizards have pathetic stats, but the buffs will mitigate that just fine.

 

There are two main issues with this:

1.  The first "sustainable" Deflection-boosting spell that Wizards can get is Llengrath's Displaced Image, available at level 5 (and with only 4 casts at level 7). That's a fairly long time to be waiting for a solid Deflection score. This also precludes you from actually using Tier 3 and below spells for offensive/CC purposes, since you mainly have to spend them on improving your defense or offense instead.
2. Wizard buffs do not stack with the buffs of other party members, meaning that, unlike other classes, you won't get the increased benefits of Circle of Protection (for Deflection, at least)/Scroll of Valor.

It's not that you can't get into melee combat as a Wizard, but that there aren't a lot of good reasons to (save for 1/encounter Grimoire Slam).

Edited April 4, 2015 by Anthony Stark